so basically how much power can be put thru a 700r4 and can the 305 be made to do this cheaper than other motors. ive heard u can build a bad azz 305for cheaper than other motor, plus take into consideration i already have a good 305 so i dont have to buy another block.what hp/torque is required to lift the front end up off the ground?

 

No 305's are more expensive, and lifting the front wheels is all in the suspension. You can build a bulletproof 700r4 it just takes money.

 

Just a 5 letter word, money.

 

Your Mustang will pull the wheels SO much easier than that Firebird, keep the firebird as a driver and mod the Mustang out. Take as much weight as you can out of it and spray the ***** off of it.

 

Is there any particular reason you want the front of your car to lift? I agree with 91camaroRslow Mod out your mustang you'll need a sh*t loud of work to get your f-bird to do that.
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But if you did you would need, Big drag tires, really high gears, Highley modded 305 or get a bigger engine, Manual trans would help or shift kit, Alot of rear end suspension work. So id say you would need somewhere around 400-450 hp/trq and all those suspension upgrades. I wouldnt gaurentee your car would last very long without other things.. our cars have weak frames and you can destroy them without the right stuff.

 

Back in the 60's, I didn't have the money to build a big engine, so I went to scrap iron pile behind local garage and found the most worn out front shocks for my 55 Chevy I could find and put them on, while having a descent set on back.
With a 283, she'd bring up the wheels. Impressive, but just show.
A lot of drag racers still do a similar trick, but they have lots of power also.

 

Worn out front shocks in my Camaro on ET Streets I could bounce the front end a few times then stab it and it'll would lift them a bit. Of course Vern House had an RV that barely ran with worn out shocks in the front, it would pull the wheels and hold it for about 20 feet, with us riding in the back it would drag the bumper. It's the suspension that counts, and a suspension that pulls the wheels on a weak motor is set WRONG for going fast.

 

Do you just want to do it for novelty? or do you want a 10 second drag car? lol

 

both

 

This can be done . First thing is to gut-out that bird Remove all the A/C Stuff and any other under hood brackets you don't need . Then You will need an engine with more power . Some thing like 370 to 400 HP . You could build that 305 to near 350 HP . But it still will be down on torque . I would go with a budget 350 build or a lower cost GM crate engine like the LM1 350 . Do a full port job to the heads and run the .016 head gaskets . For the Camshaft run the Comp Cams XE268H . This cam is 224/230 dur at 050 with 477/480 lift and has a 110 L/S . For the intake use the Edelbrock Performer RPM #7101 with a 750 carb . And for the Distridutor run a curved HEI with a high volt coil . Your 700R is ok for this build . But change the Torque converter to a 3000 to 3400 stall . And you will need a 410 gear with a Posi . Last thing is change the shocks to Drag 50/50 rear 90/10 front and install a set of frame connectors . This car won't pull the front end off the ground a foot . But with a good set of rear tires you will have some air from the front tires to the ground . COOL

 

Get about $10,000 and then you could have a 10 second front end lifting rip roaring car hot rod! lol I'd rather have the power and speed then just having my front end lift up but thats just me

 

we all know that the automobile was designed with 4 wheels right? Sooooo....logicly, 4 wheels are meant to contact the pavement....why bother spending the money for somehting that has little to no purpose? Besides of course the look of it, but...woo how fun..

 

well generally most ten second cars lift off the ground at the track. hey if i can build a 10 sec car that doesnt lift the tires i sure wont complain:P

 

I can tell you from experience, on a street car you want the front wheels
on the ground...guide rails do lots of damage to the car.

 

What a silly idea... Let me guess, you're 16-18 and think drag cars lifting the front tires is "cool" looking. Do you know what happens when a 15 second car with it's suspension setup so awfully that it lifts the front tires looks like? Not only does it look ridiculous, everyone with half a brain will point and laugh at you for doing something so stupid. Now, build a strong motor, get the right gears/converter, and some sticky tires - even then if you pull the wheel(s) hardly anyone will care or notice because the only place you'll be able to do it is on a prepped race track.

creepingdeath: Our cars have weak frames? Have you proven this? I sure can't seem to nor have I ever seen such a thing happen. In stock chassis/suspension form our cars will simply stop hooking before they can hurt anything - this is the same for just about any car you drag race.

 

I couldn't agree more, my car went .2 tenths faster when I fixed my crap front shocks. The car didn't look like it weight transfered at all but it was an absolute bullet out of the hole, that's what gets you respect; going fast! Our stock chassis cars won't be destroyed by going fast, you do have to upgrade the rear suspension or you're going to wheel hop, that's the biggest problem these cars have bone stock.

 

i would love to see a video of that

 

Did i say it would do it with a stock car? no. Once you start getting lots of torque and stiff engine tranny mounts, drag suspension, drag tires you would definatly twist our frames unless you braced it. I know a girl who destroyed her car from having too much power and all she had was stiff springsa torque arm and big tires. she swapped in a modified 454 and after time the frame twisted so much that she had to junk it. I'ts only a unibody man, why do you think they didnt put 5 speeds in the 350's on third gens? gm siad becuase it would twist the frame too much causing windows/t-tops to crack or shatter.

 

I'm sorry to tell you this but you are wrong about everything. I will ask again that you show me one credible (a "friend" doesn't count) instance of someone with a 3rd/4th gen f-body twisting their frame due to excessive torque. I'm speaking from experience, not what I read on the internet. My car has been downright abused for 3 years straight and shows absolutely no sign of chassis damage. It doesn't even have stress cracks on the roof like a lot of f-bodies get.

They didn't put 5 speeds behind the 350 cars because GM simply didn't have a 5 speed strong enough at the time - no other reason. Look at the newer LS1 cars they make a lot more HP/TQ and have almost identical chassis. Why would GM put manual transmissions in them if they'd twist up? If GM said what you claimed they did then show me where and I'll paypal you $50.

 

I agree with 88iroc350tpi, these cars will take an *** pounding without alot of changes. I have an ATI supercharged 91z with a 383. I'm pulling the wheels about 5" on cold cement infront of my shop with dragslicks, a built 700r4, subframe connectors, tubular rear bars and a 3.23 rear end and that with only a 3200 stall Neil "take a Chance" converter!! I'm changing the rear out to a 9" but will continue to use a high gear (3.25) because 1st gear on a 700r4 is in the basement, plus, if you use a taller tire (26 1/2") you don't need to use overdrive during 1/4 mile runs so the tranny lasts longer. Not to mention, my car still makes 20 mpg on the highway if I keep my foot out of it. What more could you want???? Spend some $$$$ and some time and anything can happen..........No money, no wheelie!!!

 

Oh yeah, forget the 305, they're junk. Same crank (essentially) as a 350 but with weenie piston. 700r4.......check internet for "700r4 Raptor" transmission. Rated at 650 ft/lb of torque I believe. Be careful if you persue this project as alot of tranny guys seem to think they can build a bullet proof 700r4 and end up not knowing what they're talking about. I would recommend the "Raptor" if you are serious. Do some reading and see what you think........

 

I believe SFC's are a very good modification to stiffen up the chassis on our unibody cars. Almost every member on here has them and swears up and down by them. I think you're one of very few people here 88IROC with a fast car without SFC's. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for your car.

I believe Stephen_IROC had some major wrinkles on his '87 drag car, before he put in SFC's, back before the backhalf with his old 383. I might be wrong though.

Is it an old wives tale that these cars will twist from torque??

 

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't do suspension work or get frame connectors, all of that is obviously going to improve your car... All I'm saying is that our chassis are way stronger than most people give them credit for. The only reason I have stock suspension is because when I first put my car together I took it to the track expecting it to have serious traction problems (like most people claim they experience) but launch after launch it hooked hard. This gave me a strange obsession with it... How much harder can it launch? Will my subframe bend and have me driving home on 3 wheels? So far so good. Anyway, my new motor is almost done and should make A LOT more power than the old motor... maybe I can start claiming to be the fastest all stock suspension / chassis 3rd (maybe 4th?) gen ever? I sure hope not.

 

wow dude did u take ur angry pills today? im 31 years old.i dont really care what u think or say. but it sure seems you do cus you want everyone to know what u think. get out of my thread! for real. i didnt invite for a bunch of flaming crap on here. if your not going to be positive and respectful you need to not post on here.no one needs to see or hear what u typed. it was disrespectful and ignorant.i dont care how long u have posted on this forum. trust me i didnt start here.so since u know it all go help some one. i dont need your help here. thanks and have a nice day

 

if you aint going to help the man, and you want to be rude go join another board, there is no need for that kinda garbage on here, sounds like your the one acting like he is 16-18, its his car, if he wants it to do cart wheels when he takes off he can, if he wants to put a ford in it ( ) he could, its not your car .... and what looks ridiculous about a wheelie LOL

 

I love pulling the front tires. Its what i built my combo for. And im only 32 years old.

 

whats wrong with wheelys? I like 100 ft long wheels up launches...

btw, that a 1.2x 60 ft

 

wait is this for the track or for the street? Cuz cant you get a ticket for like an unsafe vehicle if you do that on the street?

 

i would only do that at the track. but i do drive my car sometimes, but usually just to the store.

 

Dude if you have a 5 speed 86 Mustang why are you asking about building this car up? Will it seriously outrun the stang with the mods you have listed? If so something's wrong with the mustang. Keep the firebird as a driver, or sell it and put the cash into the Mustang; it'll be cheaper to go fast and pull the wheels far easier than a third gen will.

 

Come on, where's your sense of adventure?!! It's illegal to remove cats, remove charcoal cans, heck, not wear seat belts, drive 56 in a 55, spit on the sidewalk,...............I find that not only is a strategically placed wheelie on main street exhilerating, but helps me keep my youthful "bad boy attitude"!!!! It's even better than a burnout in McDonald's parking lot!!!! Oh, I just looked at the calendar and I didn't even realize I'm 45 yrs old........oops! Well......maybe no one will notice????? LOL!!!!!

 

oh then that will be fun lol, just dont do anything while cops are around

 

Put the engine in the rear...

 

i think torque plus a light front end is in need. maybe a fiberglass hood, coilovers, and tubeular k and control arms. A high geared rear end would also be a good choice...4.xx. maybe move your batterty to the back. 350+ ci. motor aluminum heads......etc etc etc. by the way i love to see the wheels up too. hopefully my motor might have enough umph when im done to do it too.

 

300 shot of nitrous and slicks might pull the front wheels... once.l

 

getting them up is easy...keeping them up is alot harder, with the right suspension a decent 350 will pop the front wheels up (if it hooks)

 

When he shifts to 2nd

 

oh i know the mustang is alot faster. im not trying to out run the mustang as is. ive had several stangs and i wanna play gm for a while:P
learn a bit more.everyone thinks 3rd gens are slow, so having a fast wheelie popping one would be cool.plus the mustangs are real squirrely as far as how they handle. and its my semi daily driver so i dont want it any more of a car than it is already. i want a sick azz bird:P

 

..................... I thought this was an F Body sight..........WTF?????
Mustang Lover! Bring it! I've smoked every mustang, chevelle, challenger, charger, vette, viper, whatever has come. I know there's faster out there but.....not yet, not here, not right now..........SLOW??????.......Bring it I say.........Three cheers for all the F body guys on here that don't refer to their cars as slow..

 

we are talking in stock form.
me i am a mustang lover, but i like all cars.please enlighten everyone what u got that smokes vipers?thats a streetable f body.
anyways long story short most people would agree a bone stock or lightly modded 3rg gen thats not a 350/lt1/ls1 is slow compared to what everyone seems to see as competition the 5.0 mustang. stock 85-93s are low end torque monsters. but we are way off topic once again.lets just keep this nice and friendly, i know theres plenty of people on here who hate mustangs, i dont need that re affirmed.i just wonder why they hate them so much???!!! both cars are respectable American muscle that we should be proud of

 

im not here to pick a fight or anything, but stock 305's are slow COMPARED to 5.0 and 4.6L mustangs, but when you build a 305 (preferably a 350) you will make the mustangs look slow.

right now i have the best of both worlds... slow mustang (reliable DD) and faster camaro (not so reliable).

 

bottom line..... I don't care whats faster i just want to destroy *****s! Thats the enemy now! Stupid Imports

 

lol, the sn95s are heavy cars, but i think they look sexy. whats the deal with gutted steering rack/gear? its like a manual rack conversion self done?

 

i meant that the interior is gutted and i have a done a manual steering conversion, etc.

 

Third gens ARE slow in stock form. The fastest ones break into the 13.9's stock on rare occasions. They're heavier than Mustangs and the stock EFI stuff doesn't lend itself well to budget mods. That being said if you want to build a third gen you can, but saying a Mustang handles squirrley then saying you want to build a third gen to pop the wheels is silly. You don't know the meaning of squirrley until you drive a car around with the suspension set up to do that! The third gen will shine in spirited/handling, all around fun driving. The Mustang is simply a cheaper, lighter platform to make a strip warrior out of. You can do it either way but I tell you right now, I wouldn't tear up a third gen to make a strip car out of it when I had a Mustang sitting in my driveway, I'de set the Thirdgen up to be a nice handling driving car and make the Mustang my wheelie popping track car. Nothing says quick for cheap like a 2600 pound Mustang, trust me I've been there.

 

QUOTE FROM 84NONAME......please enlighten everyone what u got that smokes vipers?thats a streetable f body.
anyways long story short most people would agree a bone stock or lightly modded 3rg gen thats not a 350/lt1/ls1 is slow compared to what everyone seems to see as competition the 5.0 mustang. stock 85-93s are low end torque monsters. but we are way off topic once again.lets just keep this nice and friendly, i know theres plenty of people on here who hate mustangs, i dont need that re affirmed.i just wonder why they hate them so much???!!! .......................................................................................................................................................................................... My reply to this is..............Well......Hmmmm.........Don't hate mustangs at all.....love them in my rear view mirror! My camaro is a very streetable 91 z28 with an ati procharger on 383 roller motor, air conditioning, 3.25 9" rear, built 700r4, makes 20mpg when driven easily, 'bout 650 to the ground, best time with street legal tires.....10.60.......runs 91 gas.......drive it anywhere.........this is an F body board, isn't it. I think we should park the "Mustang" crap and help get this guy his wheelie if he's serious!........ps....when I pull my car to the drags and don't drive it, I use my F150........that's as friendly as I can be.........

 

its not hard to smoke vipers... cammed nitrous LS1 swap will do that all day long

anyway, pull the wheels will need some power but more in the suspension than anything

i've seen some 11 and 10 second cars pull the wheels higher than mid low 9 second cars, so i think its more suspension/weight balance of the car than anything

 

Is it really stiff or really soft springs that will do it?

 

you dont want the rear to squat down. you want it to actually lift. you want the front to come up.

i'd say softer springs/shocks up front and medium stiff stuff out back

 

that thing lookd beastly!! very nice.i geuss i would be after something like that.i dont want to change suspension to make it pop up. i want it to handle good too.i geuss it was a curiousity question, but it seems like it would be dumb to set up the suspension to make it do it. is that motor a carbbed draw thru set up?im wondering why theres a air cleaner on top of the bonnet?
im leaving the mustang be, i dont want to race it. its high milage and i dont feel like using it to race because i might be getting 2 donor cars that are already half gutted notch backs which would be a better choice, and one has a fair recently rebuilt motor so if my friend get his cobra he said i can have his project so he can have his garage back for 500. but i really want a fast bird. gm stuff seems cheaper than ford too, like intakes are usually 50 bucks less. and if i mess with a good one it will fit alot more motors than just a 305.honestly it would be a while before i made a super fast 3rd gen. so im curious is a edelbrock performer intake worth the 129 bucks?i was leaning more towards a victor junior.i want to just start by putting on a intake and good carb just so i dont have to look at all these vac lines. and go with a mild cam and the full deal on exaust and headers.im figuring all that would swap over to a 350 so no biggie