To have your thirdgen serviced? If so, how have your experiences been?

I needed to get an oil pan replaced on my '92 Formula because it was leaking badly from a rotten spot, and I needed one frozen e-brake cable replaced to pass state inspection. Service manager called today to tell me the oil pan job alone was going to be $750! I felt violated! That's $82 per hour to remove/raise the engine to gain room to drop the pan, and then a few hundred or more for the damn GM pan. Unbelievable. I still have the e-brake to do, and to see if the car fails for the Code 32 it throws at highway speeds.

GM is going to price itself right out of the repairs market. Next time, I'm going to a different, non-dealership garage. These are prices for rich people!

Ideally, I'd do most work on my own, but my new barn has no electricity yet and no heat, so I wasn't going to struggle out in the dark and cold to do an engine removal...I'm not 18 anymore.

Curious to hear your experiences with farming out repairs.

 

so get your own pan. I admit parts from dealerships are expensive, but 82 per hour aint bad. The shop I work at is 65. an hour, but thats a private shop, not a dealership.

People always make me mad when they complain about the labor rates. Think about the bigger picture. Shops need to buy equipment to survive, thats really expensive. Flush machines- 3500 +, scan tools- 2500- 10K, insurance, training for the techs, and actaully paying the techs. If you dont like it, suck it up and work on your own car.

 

Dealerships are for new cars. They are not the right place for cars this old. They don't WANT them in there at all; they're not in the business of keeping cars as old as ours on the road, they're in the business of seling and maintaining new ones.

I'm not surprised you're having trouble.

I'd suggest you learn how to take care of it yourself, ESPECIALLY if you consider this to be a "hobby". Dealerships aren't the answer.

GM does not care about cars as old as ours, and the dealers care even less; there's not but a tiny handful of them on the road anyway. They LONG SINCE wuit having parts available, the only way they can fix them regardless, is to go to the parts store and buy the same parts you can. As far as they're concerned, we're nothing but a nuisance and an aggravation. All we do, in their eyes, is bring in old wore-out rusted-up beaters with a hundred thousand miles of schmutz and funk and salt holes all over them, and then complain about how much it costs. Their pricing policies are their way of telling you they don't want your business.

 

First, read my post to see why I didn't buy my own pan and install it.

Second, I don't care whether you get mad about labor rate complaints. Every business has overhead. The school I teach at has overhead, easily as much or more than a dealership. Still, labor rates for teachers like myself, with years of experience and advanced degrees from top colleges earn a FRACTION of what the dealership gets.

sofakingdom, you've put it in a way that makes me look at the situation differently i.e. dealerships don't really want old cars around. Next time, I'll try the mom and pop garage in town...haven't been there in years since the owner is crotchety, but I'm ready for a second chance there.

But, it's not a matter of me learning to take care of it myself. I've worked on cars for years. But, as I said, I'm not 18 anymore. I can't, at this time, come home from school, work on my kitchen remodel, do my prep for school, and then head out to a frozen barn to work on pulling a motor. So, I bring the car to a garage when I can't do the repairs. Just seems that this time, I'm learning a lesson.

 

ya that price is way high. overhead, training blah blah blah. It's your money so go somewhere different. The dealership i go to is only 65 an hour and they do great work! a little slow but whatever. I would suggest doing it yourself (not too hard) or going to an old school garage.

As for the dealer, yes they are high but next to a fab/speed shop they are the best. And yes the parts are high but the parts are right. the chineese/indian crap is not. I had a VSS go bad and everyone autozone or advance auto had was wrong. cost me 200 clams at the dealer but it worked perfect. no one else wanted to touch it.

so call around for quotes and if it is still too high then do it yourself. It is not that bad just a pain in the butt. Good luck!


(and yes i work on my own cars.... screw mechanics and their "ASE" bull crap. I only go to ASE master mechanics and Mr. Goodwrench when i have to. heck if i could mount tires and balance them i would never go anywhere!)

 

You go where they do work. That might be a dealership, but it might be a local shop. In my case I have a local shop that will just blow any dealership in the area right out of the water. They can trace and diagnose things that the local dealerships can't figure out (they also have MORE computer diagnostic equipment than the dealerships, believe it or not!).

Here's an example from about 5 years ago that shows what I'm talking about: Had a 94 Formula with a high RPM miss. Local dealership said it was the Optispark distributor. I had just replaced it 2 years prior, but I figured they're the pros with the diagnostic equipment so I took their word for it. $800 later I had a new Optispark distributor installed and the problem was unchanged. I asked a few questions and found out that the dealership didn't even have the diagnostic equipment to plug into older OBD1 computers any more. They grudgingly admitted after some heated conversations that the diagnosis was just their "best guess." Bad guess at my considerable expense! I took it home and began putting my phone number on the For Sale sign. While it was on my front lawn I called my local shop who told me they had seen a lot of "odd" problems like mine due to factory platinum plugs. I was sceptical but I figured I'd give it a shot for just the few bucks it would cost, and I installed them myself. A set of cheap Autolite plugs later and she was running like a top for the first time in months. The old plugs looked fine, but obviously they weren't.

One shop knew what to look for, one shop didn't. Simple as that. I use the shop with the smart people now.

 

I'm with you on that, life is to busy and that's why they have mechanics ready to do the jobs we don't want to do. I would get a quote before letting a dealer touch my cars unless its under warranty.Thats a very expensive lesson. Your not the first and you will not be the last 3rd Gen to learn this lesson.

 

lol, I'm sure this is true. I've used this dealership before, and I know they are expensive. But with this particular job, I feel like the price is greatly disproportionate to the parts purchased or the labor invested.

I've also always had an idea that using a dealership guaranteed that no crappy parts were installed on my car, and that, as Damon pointed out, there is and expectation that they are the best trained to diagnose and fix problems.

 

Find a good shop that has ASE certified master mechanics working there. I have had poor experience with the GM dealers on multiple occasion.
One time I payed $90 for them to miss-diagnose an oil leak. They were going to charge me $540 to reseal my intake manifold bolts. The leak was coming from the valve covers, a much cheaper repair. They didn't even use the fluorescent dye to find the leak.
On a separate occasion they shorted out half of my fuel injectors just by replacing the starter (guess what happens when the ignition key is in the on position when you reconnect the battery).

 

I've bought enough parts at my local dealership to earn a parts discount. Great. I take my car to a small local shop where I've managed to build a great relationship. I consider the manager a mentor/friend of sorts. If I need advice he's the man to talk to--probably doesn't hurt that I take a 12-pack out there from time to time.

And Bull, I know very well what you mean about not being 18 anymore.

JamesC

 

Hell, if you want to see how the dealership treats old cars, bring your GTO down there and ask for some routine maintenence or something...

And when I worked at firestone tire, changing oil, their labor rate for the tech's was over $90 so the dealership aint bad. Firestone also had this 2.5 multiplier in the computer, so if your oil pan were to cost 100 for them to get delivered from NAPA, they would charge you 250 for the part.

Now, as for labor, the rate is fixed. The job, such as "oil pan replacement" needs to be looked up in a book, where it tells how many 1/10's of an hour the job will take. So it is a fixed cost, no matter who the customer is, or if the tech takes 2 hours, or 2 weeks to do the job.

Now, with that in mind, they still have ways to rape you on the price. Its all in the little things they add in. I have seen it so many times. You really would need to do the math on the estimate, and add up all the little parts to make sure it all works out.

 

this is why i love being able to do my own work

 

If you own one of these cars, You should know it inside and out.
1. you dont have the money for parts, let alone labor....Usually how it works.
2. You DO have the money, so why dont you own a 4th gen.

 

only reason i take my honda to the dealer is for warrenty work, i just dont like the dealer rate on labor....... if i have to take my car somewhere i go where i can bring the parts i want to be replaced, that way i know its a good quality part, and i know i being raped with it comes to the price of the part, but a agree totaly with JamesC, the only person other than me to touch my car is a mechanic like he describes

 

Labor does take up alot of money so do everything your self or find someone that will do it for you like a friends or familys member or better yet have them help you. If you don't have a place to do it, try a friend or familys place, I'v used some of my friends and familys places to do work on my car ton of times plus a free dinner here and there .

 

yea people come here alot to work on their car, normaly i end up working on the car, they drink my beer and eat my food

 

well i guess it depends on the dealership. The GM dealer i go to has every gadjet in the book and they checked my whole dash and VSS system in half an hour. And there were no guesses. And yes i'm very picky where i go. The dealer i go to has only "master mechanics" that know what they are doing. Third gens to them are old school and are easy to fix. Now try to work on a new cobalt/saturn redline motor or a 90's vette and they will give you the "i hate you" look.

 

Hmm, you guys pay alot for labor compared to me. I pay about $55/hour at my brothers friends shop, maybe he's giving me a discount but I think thats all he charges and thats in Canada.

 

i only use a dealership for certain things, but im an apprentice tech so they give me a break, but as far as gm "not wanting old cars on the road" it doesnt affect them either way, their still gonna sell their new camaros and new trucks no matter how many thirdgens are on the road. The only time id suggest using a dealership is when you have warranty work. Private shops are the way to go

Oh, and just for the record they arent master mechanics anymore lol we're technicians. Theres too much crap in cars for us to just wrench on bolts lol. Thirdgens are definately a cakewalk after you have to fix a new colbalt

 

You couldnt have really put that any better. Most "technicians" or so you call 'em, I call "Parts Changers". The machine tells them what wrong they fix it. Most dont know **** about the mechanicals of the WHOLE car and Most are NOT even Car enthusiasts. I know this cuz I have worked in dealerships. I have been to school and received my training. This is how it is around here anyway. And they are THE WHINIEST BIT_CHES EVER!

 

Right....

They couldn't care less whether they're on the road or not. That's not their problem or concern, one way or the other.

They just don't want to see them in the service dept.

Dealerships' concern is, they're in the business of selling and servicing NEW cars. Everything they do is set up that way. Just look at their waiting rooms and other services to get an idea of what they're expecting their clientele to expect. Their service manuals are even like that: they don't talk about fixing things that happen as cars get old (rust holes, replacing valve guides, how to get stuck fuel lines out of fuel filters without twisting them off, what cam to put in, etc.); they talk about crash damage, "infant mortality" problems, factory QC errors. Things that affect NEW cars. Everything they do, assumes that a car is perfect and new and pristine, except that ONE part somewhere just up and failed. Not too many 20-year-old cars are like that.

They simply aren't the right place any more, in general, to take one of these cars for service. Quit being the right place at least 10 years ago. Now, with alot of them starting to officially become "antiques" (25 years... 82 & 83 are official "antiques" in many states now), they're not exactly mass-market "daily drivers" any more, but rather, more of a specialist hobby for people like us. Dealer's just aren't in that business. They don't want it, can't make money at it, and would just as soon not deal with it. While individual techs (who also often are hobbyists themselves) might be exceptions, that doesn't alter the basic fact of the dealership business model.

Yeah it sucks; but that's life. Like James said, if you can't work on some part of it yourself, you just gotta find somebody out there in car repair land who can, and will, and won't hose you in the process. Just like anybody else with any other kind of an antique car.

 

ha ha yeah ill give you that, but ive found that the ones that whine are only the ones the fell into the field bass ackwards. Or the UTI guys. The few that actually wanted to become techs and actually work hard at what they do are acutally pretty cool. From what ive seen here they are far from "parts changers" the ones that took a vocational school paired with a college are really good at diagnostics, whereas the whiners...suck at it and just go off on a whim pulling parts and replacing them. They rely on the service writer to tell them whats wrong but they are nearly never correct lol

As far as the antique thing goes, more power to us, that just means we dont have to do smog anymore lol, ive still got another 6 years though. Im keeping this thing until i die....or crash it lol