ok.. i purchased an 87 iroc a couple of weeks ago and i haven't been able to get it running. the previous owner told me that it ran when he parked it, but he let it sit for two years after he pulled the tranny out of it. the trans is still gone but i was told it wouldn't hurt to try to get it started as long as i didn't rev it up. i am basically just wanting to see this engine actually start up so i know what i have..
so far i have changed the fuel filter and the fuel pump relay. when i turn the key on i can hear the fuel pump kick on and there is pressure at the rails. i have checked all of the fuses and they are good. i have also checked to see if the injectors where getting a signal to fire.. and they are. but it doesn't start. i have sprayed carb cleaner down the throttle body and it starts for a second or two and then dies. this makes me believe its a fuel delivery problem and not fauly distributor cap or plugs or anything like that.. this is all new to me and i need some fresh ideas.
oh yeah.. it has 3/4 tank of fuel.. he said he put fuel stabilizer in it shortly before i bought it..
any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

..should i pull the injectors and see if they 'ohm out'? i have been reading some other threads to get some ideas.. but i'm really just guessing.. anyone??

 

if it will get me some traffic on this thread you can tell me how fast you think it'll go in the 1/4 mile (if i can get it running!)! 'dirtycanadian' is getting a ton of responses to his dumb (imho) question and i can't get one stinkin' response??! by the way.. i ain't mad.. i was laughing when i wrote this so don't take it the wrong way! ..but seriously..

 

Did you put new gas in the tank? Two year old gas isn't going to be any good. Another thing, take your injectors out and clean them.

 

i thought of that.. but i recently rebuilt a 68 nova that sat for way more than 2 years i'm sure.. and i was able to get it running without siphoning the old gas. i wonder if putting the fuel stabilizer in AFTER it sat for two years is adding to the problem??

 

Put more fresh gas in it to dilute it. I have had problems with injectors getting gummed up with old gas and wont spray. Try cleaning them. I've never done it on TPI. I know TBI is pretty easy though. Check the air cleaner. Heck there might something living in there after two years.

 

ok.. tonight i am going to siphon out the old gas (to be on the safe side) and put in fresh. if it still won't start i think i'll pull the injectors and check the ohms.. if they test out ok i am going to take them to NAPA and have them cleaned and checked out. THEN just mabe i'll be set.. we'll see.

thanks for the advice!

 

No problem. Good luck. And welcome to TGO.

 

ok.. last night a siphoned out as much gas as i could (which was only about 2 or 3 gallons). which still left about a 1/2 a tank of the old stuff. i added about 3 gallons of new fuel. i also replaced a suspect looking vacuum line. the car acted a little better.. but not much. i was doing some reading online and saw that a sticking egr valve can cause a low air/fuel ratio when cranking. is there a way that i can check my egr valve? or do you need to just throw $80 at it and see what happens?

 

Sounds like a low fuel pressure problem. You need to have at least 36 psi at the fuel rail to get a TPI engine to even try to start. It should have 44 psi at the rail if the fuel pump is good.

How much fuel pressure do you have?

 

i had a friend with more knowledge than me about these cars check the pressure at the rail and he said there was "plenty".. but i never got an actual number. i will cal him and see what it was reading.

 

It acted better, do you mean you got started on its own? All of that old gas is going to make it run rough until you get circulated out. Plus you could have water in there too.

 

"acted better" meaning that a few times it actually acted like it wanted to start without spraying the carb cleaner down the throttle body. it did not actually start, like it did when i sprayed it (it only ran for a couple of seconds). but it acting like it wanted to. before it pretty much would just crank unless you gave it some spray.
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would the throttle position sensor have anything to do with it?? it dies before i am able to tap dance on the gas pedal to try and keep it running.. just wondering. all of these sensors and electrical things have me thinking every which way.. but with my luck it's probably the most basic thing.

 

I wouldn't worry about the sensors yet. Its probably the the old gas. I got gas in my camper thats only 9 months old and its starting to run rough. Try getting more gas out. Do a search, maybe you can find an easier way to get the old gas cycled out.

 

sounds good. oh, and i talked to my friend about the fuel pressure.. he said it was 45 psi.

 

i searched google a while and found NOTHING on a good way to drain the fuel tank. would it be a dumb idea to unhook the line from the filter , point it into a container and kepp hitting the key so the pump is getting it done?? would it take forever or fry my pump?? just a thought. last night a siphoned with a hose and used my shop vac to get it started. after a few gallons though, she quit on me and i never could get it started again..

 

Disconnect the fuel filter. Seems like whenever I change mine I loose about 3 gallons.

 

I think I've seen fuel siphon pumps at auto parts stores or even wal mart. They are a simple hose with a one way valve and a rubber hand pump, which lets you pump out the gas even if gravity isn't on your side.

 

yeah, i've seen those pumps.. but judging from my ordeal last night i don't think i could get one far enough in to do the job. i was having a hard enough time getting my 3/8" siphon hose fished down in there.


does anyone know how i can jumper my fuel pump so it will constantly run and i can drain the tank that way??

 

 

yea i think it sounds like a fuel issue

 

ok.. so i just pumped out ALL of the old fuel in the tank..probably 12 gallons or so.. and i put in about 3 gallons of new fuel. it acts like it wants to start. it takes off for a split second and then it just drops off and dies. the good news is that it does that pretty much every time.. where as before it only did it occasionally. BUT still no go. what's my next move??

i read on a different thread that the ecm kicks on the fuel pump for 2 seconds when you hit the key.. mine does that. it also said that the ecm looks for a signal from the distributor and if it has a signal then it tells the fuel pump relay to kick back on. i am wondering if that is my problem.. the ecm not picking up the signal..

thoughts????

 

*bump*

 

this morning i pulled off the ignition module and took it up to o'reillys to have tested. it failed all of the tests.. Ya! right?? well, i bought a new one and put it on (yes i put the grease on the back of it). the car started up for about 20-30 seconds and then died. upon inspection one of the wires that go to the coil had a butt connector on it and it had come apart. so i fixed the connection and tried to restart the car. it ran for a few seconds and died.. after that the thing just cranks and doesn't even try to start up. i put more fuel in it thinking that it was a low fuel issue and it still doesn't do anything. is my new ignition module toast?? i really don't know what to look for.. i had it going and then i lost it.

 

it looks like i,ve lost spark..

 

well.. i took the new ignition module back off and had o'reillys test it. it's good. i bought a new coil hoping that would cure my problem.. and i still have nothing!

 

Have you cleaned the injectors yet? Try some seafoam in the gas tank.

 

i'm not getting spark now.. when i changed the module today it ran for about 30 seconds. thats 28 seconds longer than it has ran since i've owned it! ..then it died. i had them re-check the module, and it's good. i also changed the ignition coil and coil wire. i have also checked all fuses and they are good.
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..and no i haven't cleaned the injectors yet. it was running today and that is $100 can't afford to throw at it if i don't absolutley have to. put one of my spare plugs in a plug wire and cranked it over.. she's got no fire.

 

You can clean the injectors yourself. Are you getting no gas to the injectors as well? Did check to see if you have any trouble codes? Check your fuses. Double check your connections.

 

i have never messed with tpi before.. how do you go about it?? NAPA told me it would cost $100 to have them do it.

 

I edited my last post I dont know if you caught it or not. I know the TBI injectors I just soaked them and bought new screens. Not sure about TPI though. Do a search.

 

yeah, i saw the last post. like i said before.. all fuses are good. and i am sure that if i could get the spark problem figured out i'd be set. but yeah.. i will definately be cleaning the injectors in the near future. the fact that i had it running earlier though makes me think that they must not be TOO terrible. i just wish i knew what the hell happened to my spark! i had it and then it vanished.

 

Probably something simple, maybe a broke wire or bad connection.

 

yeah, i know.. but iv'e been all over that thing.

 

Sorry, I didn't read your earlier posts very well. I didn't realize I asked stuff that you already mentioned. Long day work. I'll give it some thought. In the mean time try this
http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm

 

i tried the link you gave me and they don't list the camaro as an option for 87.. so.. that's kind of crazy. anyway.. i appreciate all of the effort you've been putting forth to help me try to figure this thing out.

 

Firebird and Camaro will be the same.

 

i was doing some reading on this forum and came across the one where the dude toasted his firebird, bought a mustang and then started bashing the third gen crowd! that was awesome! it's really cool to see how the third gen crowd sticks together and don't take any crap.. now let's put our heads together and get MY DAMNED CAR FIXED!! IT"S DRIVING ME NUTS!!

 

I hear ya! I don't know if you already answered this or not but did you scan for any codes? So your not getting spark to the plugs. Are you still getting gas to the cylinders? Pull a plug out wipe it off good, put it back, crank the engine over a few times and see if its wet. I am wondering if your plugs are fouled too. The old gas saturated the plugs making it not fire well and now not at all. Try a good plug. Try directly from the coil too, be careful doing that coils BITE, ouch! Another thing, I was wondering about that little connector on the back of the ign. module inside the distributer. Or Maybe the distributer or ign. module isnt seated right.

 

i have checked for spark by unooking a plug wire from the plug and using an extra plug i had lying around the garage. when i crank it i don't get a spark. i have also put a plug wire coming out of the coil and going straight to my "spare" plug.. still nothing. the coil is new and the connections seem to be fine. i am baffled. it is weird that it had spark before i changed the module, and after running for 30 seconds or so with the new module..i lost spark. could the new module have burnt something up?? i am so confused. please keep the ideas coming!
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oh yeah.. i haven't checked for codes. i have a buddy that owns a code reader.. i'll have to get him to run a check for me.

 

Sounds like the new module went bad. Double check all of the wiring to make sure nothing came loose.

 

thats what i thought.. but i took the module back to o'reillys and they tested it.. it was good. and as far as i can tell all of my connections are good. i should be getting a spark from the coil regardless, right??

 

do you think that my old coil was bad and i bought a new one that is junk too?? i bought the cheaper one but it should work! i think i'll take it back off and have them check it out.

 

Anything is possible. You might want to make sure you have power to the wire from the battery. If you lost the connection there you will definitely not have spark.

 

there are two plugs(four connection) that plug onto the top of the coil.. with the key on i am getting 12 volts to the wire farthest back and towards the passenger side (sorry.. i don't know how else to explain it). none of the other connections have anything to them. i am pretty sure that one goes to the battery.

 

There should be two single wires also plugged into the cap. One should be marked Tach and the other should be marked Bat. (for battery). Make sure the battery lead has power.

 

on the connector farthest back there is a white wire (tach) and a slightly bigger red wire (battery). i am getting 12v to the battery side. also, i took my new coil back and exchanged for a new one..same thing.

 

would a bad pickup coil make it not spark at all??

 

Have you checked your ECM and Prom connections, Located passenger side above the dash kick panel.

MAF Connector on Mass Airflow sensor, and TPS, and CTS.

You said your car was a 87 305 tpi so I am assuming yours was like mine.

Basically if you have Good spark and your fuel pressure is up, your system should run (not necessarily good though).

You already stated that you changed the Filter, Checked all the fuses. Did you also check the ECM fuse located almost behind the battery on the passenger inner fender? Is your ALDL wire connected on the passenger firewall by the heater motor? Are both sets of wires plugged into the distrib and same for the coil?

What about the wires from your starter.. The fusible links? I belive there is 3 of them.

If you are running a Maf system do you have access to another 1227165 ECM with Prom?

These are more suggestions.

Where do you live? Maybe someone close on the forums can give you a helping hand.
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Pickup coil will still have spark but not advance during accelleration

 

yeah, i have checked the fuse by the battey. and i know that both sets of connections are plugged into the dist. and the coil. no, i have not checked the fusable links by the starter. i have not checked the ecm.. i don't really know how to go about it. i am pretty sure i have 12v to the coil.. but i will double check.

i am located in Pittsburg, Ks (shut up.. i know..)