Hows it going? Yesterday I installed a set of moroso ultra 40 universal spark plug wires on my '89 GTA and I'm not getting any spark . I've checked all fuses, relays, cap and rotor, wires, icm and nothing. I didn't mention the coil because it was replaced not too long ago after I bought the car (may of 07) but when I bought it, it didn't look 'new' and it had a small dot colored in like if it has been used before. It may or may not have been, just a possibility of it bieng a faulty coil; I'll check it later. One reason I don't think its the coil is because it was working fine with my previous wires. I'm stuck here guys any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Ruben

 

were the wires preassembled of did you crimp the ends on and istall the boots on one side?

Are they on in the right order and the coil wire is connected?

 

Yeah they're the cut-to-fit type and the coil is connected. I did each wire one by one to avoid mixing them up. I forgot to mention in the previous post that along with this issue, my 'check engine' light won't come on anymore as well as the fuel pump isn't priming either but again, I did check everything and it looks to be legit.

Thanks again,

Phoenix

 

This should have nothing to do with your plug wires. Check the wires around the area you were working and check your fuses... GL

 

Thanks for clearing it up man. I was having doubts as to whether or not it was or wasn't the wires but now I know its not. I'll check around for any possible loose connections around the valve covers and distributor area tomorrow. I'll post an update on my results. Thanks again.


Phoenix

 

do you still have the old wires? would it be a problem to swap them back on temporarily to see if something is wrong with the wires? You said it was working before you swapped them right? did you make the boot connections right? folding back the inner conductor before crimping the ends on?

 

I don't have the old wires (msd) because the dumb a**es at the machine shop that did my engine rebuild recently burnt them and patched them up with electrical tape and a layer of metal tape on top. This did nothing as they still arced like crazy; there were about 3 wires burnt. As for the new wires, I did each one one-by-one so I wouldn't accidently mix them up somehow and what made it easier is that my old wires had those little plastic numbered clips so keeping track of where they went was cake . Yeah it was working fine before the old wires were taken out. I took my time this time to make sure they came out right becuase to be honest with my 2 previous sets, I built them without bending the conductor and would cut them just behind the clip until I realized with this set I just built that it was a big no no so I did bent them this time. Thanks again!

Phoenix

 

Wow they were grounding out? You may have fried something... You did check your work area wiring and fuses correct?

 

Yeah thats pretty much what was happening. Its a possibility that I did fry something but then again it still fired right up with my old wires . I did check my work area and even had my brother inspect it as well but came up with nothing. I guess its going have to go into the shop soon; again !

 

You checked all your fuses? If you are getting no spark, you're getting no engine light (even though you possibly shouldn't be getting one) and the fuel pump isn't priming, I'd be tempted to say your ecm or prom could be fried or disconnected somehow.

 

Yes sir all fuses are . After all the inspection on my car and everything looking like its good, I was beginning to lean towards it being the ecm since something might of grounded or fried during the installation of my wires so thats another possibilty . How much would an ecm cost me? anyone know? Thanks again.

Phoenix

 

This is what I was thinking...

Find a you-pull-it JYard... There it shouldnt be more than $30...

 

Ok I guess I might of overlooked one thing....maybe . Yesterday while working on the beast, I found a black ground wire with broken insulation and some strands sticking out but not completely cut off . It's located right by the passenger's side valve cover and dizzy and is bolted to the firewall with 2 other wires: a flat strap wire and another wire of some sort. That small section was almost completey behind the cover so I couldn't see it until I dropped a bolt there yesterday and came across it. I'm going to repair this today and see what happends and while im at it install a new coil that recently purchased. If that doesn't do it, Its time for a new ecm . I'd look into a junk yard but the ones in my area hardly carry 3rd gen t/a's and the ones that I have come across, we're either v6 or carbed. I'll post my results later today. Thanks again guys.

L8R,
Phoenix

 

Ok theres finally spark and it was all thanks to a bad ICM. Got that taken care of but still I get no 'check engine' light and no fuel pump prime . My friend and I got alot covered today backtracking and checking for current at the wires from the relays which we tought were a possible cause and he found that there was no current to the black wire and drk green wire at the burn off relay and since the MAF relay is linked to it I will have to replace both; if they aren't the problem, looks like its time for a new ECM. The f/p relay tested fine btw. We did get the car to run however but that was from bypassing a wire from the battery to the fuel pump; wierd thing when doing this is that the SES light did come on as the pump primed. Another thing we found while doing this particular test is that the car would only 'cough' but not run when I cranked it (f/p still rigged to battery) unless I shot a spray of starter fluid then it would run. So in conclusion: We're not really sure at this point but for now we believe that the f/p isn't getting signal to prime because one or both (MAF or burnoff) relays might be faulty and they're not allowing the current to flow and prime the unit which then would signal to ecm to 'prime' the injectors allowing instant start up and no more 'coughing'. I say we're not really sure because that might not be the way the system works together in that order, we just assumed it did so if anyone can let me know exactly how the fuel pump, injectors, relays and ecm work together in the correct order from the moment the key is turned to full start up, I'd greatly appreciate it so we can get the beast running. Thanks guys and sorry for the essay lol!

Take it easy,

Phoenix

 

There is a fuse for the ecm under the hood by the battery. It is covered and attached to the inner fender area by the battery tray in camaros. I am not sure if it is in that location in firebirds. If that fuse is blown it will cause the SES light to not turn on when you turn the ignition on.

 

Lol its funny you mention that fuse because I had a problem a while back where my f/p appeared to be fried as well as no SES light so I replaced the pump and nothing; that is until I did a little research here and found out about that fuse by the battery. Popped in a new fuse after I found it was shot and it fired right up. Ok back on track, that fuse is fine yet I'm still not getting any "pre spray" to the injectors and right now I'm just waiting for pay day to get those relays.

L8R,

Phoenix

 

Check your grounds for the relays and the ECM.

As for the SES light I have no idea normally when no SES light comes on when you put the key to the on position it could mean bad ECM. it should turn on, blink off, and turn back on and stay on. Have you tried checking for codes? OR your SES light is burnt out lol...

What side of Tucson are you in? I have an ALDL cable and a lap top you could use to see what your ECM is reading if anything at all...

If you have the dual fan set up like I do and we have the same car aside from a few mods.. Use the fan relays for the burn off and the MAF power and see if it will work. if it does replace them.

 

Replaced all relays and the problem still persists. I'm going to check the C313 connector ( got it from a tech article) behind the differential to see what its condition is then I will test the relay wiring for 12v of power with a mulitmeter I recently bought. If that doesn't do the trick then I will have to purchase a new ECM; I'm looking to purchase the 16198445 version due to its updated hardware.

Thanks again guys,

Ruben

 

Got your PM, Ruben.

Here's my $0.02.
Before you start buying ECMs and other expensive parts, I'd find out why exactly the fuel pump doesn't prime. You mentioned the C313. If the problem is bad contact there, then your ECM might be perfectly fine.

Have you tried troubleshooting all parts of the fuel pump control circuit? Here's a short article that will help: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=35
That should help you find the source of your problem.

Let us know what you find.
Lou

 

I appreciate you stopping by sir. Yeah I friend and I did alot of backtracking in the wiring a while back and everything looked good from there and narrowed it down to relays or the ECM. Since the relays appeared to be 20 years old or so (and were cheaper), I decided to replace all of them a couple of days ago thinking it would do the trick but no . Thanks to the article you provided (which I found in another article), I found out about that C313 connector and how to inspect it. I'll post my results tomorrow. Thanks again for your valuable information and time Lou.

Ruben

 

Just an update since my last post, I inspected the c313 connector and it was clean. I have a new ecm unit on the way that i'm hoping will do the trick. The other day I decided to run my car so it won't just sit there and 'freeze' by bypassing the f/p to the battery. In doing so, I found out that when theres a fuse in the connector by the battery, the f/p will not prime but make a faint clicking sound and the SES will not light up not to mention the wires that run to the connector get hot! When I removed the fuse, the f/p did prime and the SES did come on. Does this mean a short? .

Thanks again guys,

Ruben

 

Update: The problem still persists with my car believe it or not and what I've decided to do, is just purchase another engine harness for my car but a real 1989 GTA harness this time which I've already found btw, just waiting on the seller. I finally recieved my ecm today from ecudirect.com #16198445 and I'll be installing it within the next few days. I'll post on my results.

Thanks,

Phoenix

 

I think you have to track down the problem. I don't know about you, but I hate buying parts that don't fix anything. Start by finding out why your fuel pump isn't working. Connect a voltmeter to its input to see if its getting power when you turn the ignition on. If not track, wire back to the battery, if it does work check the relays output.

My guess is the ECM power lead. On the carb cars there's an orange wire with fusible link and weatherpack connector straight to the battery. On some EFI cars the ECM turns on the fuel pump.

 

Update: Problem not solved yet but almost. I recieved my true 1989 GTA harness about a week ago and haven't put it in yet due to the fact that I'm replacing all of the dry brittle black convoluted tubing with blue tubing and I'm currently waiting on some more since I fell short. It should be in by this week though hopefully. Thats the good news, the bad news is that the car wont turn over any more at all. This occured when I tried firing it up today so it wont just sit there until I get the "new" ecm and harness put in. The 'check engine' and security light as well as the rest of the dash works not to mention my exterior lights but the alternator and crank don't spin. I just got the battery charged yesterday and it actually turned really slowly on my first couple of attempts. One thing I should point out is that I had a brain fart and left the alternator plug disconnected while I cranked it and funny thing is it still spun slowly. Could this cause harm to the electrical system? I tried using the battery from my brother's car to see if it was actually it but it wasn't. Anyone have an idea as to whats going on now? Like I mentioned earlier, I should be getting the harness and ecm in this week so I'll cross my fingers and hope that it'll do the trick. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks.

Phoenix

 

It really sounds like you have a short somewhere. Have a buddy try to start it while you hook your volt meter up to the battery. Check to see what the voltage does. Might be your battery cables as well. If they are too corroded you will not be getting enough power to crank the engine.

 

Did you check for voltage at the fuel pump's relay?

 

Yeah I've been thinking the same thing myself since my current harness isn't in all that good of condition which is why I had to purchase another one in good condition this time . I'll do that bettery test later today and post on the results. I never actually considered the battery cables but giving them a close inspection wouldn't hurt so I'll do that as well.

No not yet. Did you mean the relay itself or the actual wires on the relay connector? BTW, I ended up replacing all the relays to see if that did the trick but no .

My tubing should be arriving and installed tomorrow and the harness and ecm put in by next week since there will be no cutting of the wires on my 'new' harness. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks again and I appreciate the info.

Phoenix

 

I mean the relay harness with or without the relay. I would check the all the voltages to determine EXACTLY which signal is wrong. Changing the harness is going to be a shot in the dark.

 

Ok I'll get to doing that probably next week because believe it or not while I was on my way to were my car is at, I got into a minor fender bender. So no working on the GTA today which sux! I'll keep you guys posted though on my progress. Thanks,

Phoenix

 

Update: Got almost all my harness put in today (still have a few things disconnected), along with my 'new' ecm. The car now cranks really fast and needs no more assistance from the starter fluid as well as no more bypassing the f/p to get it to run. My SES light now comes and on and the f/p finally primes. I'm not jumping for joy just yet since its still not running or better yet won't stay on due to a possible mix up of the spark plug wires or bad gas. One strange thing that my friend and I found today was that there was no knock sensor or coolant fan switch present any longer since the engine rebuild and the holes were they belonged to, are now plugged up. Since they used to be there, its obvious that the shop left them out but I'm not blaming them however we also found that the knock sensor and coolant fan switch connectors and wires were cut off probably be the previous owner of the car. Anyway I purchased those 2 sensors today and should have them installed and functioning by tomorrow. I'd also like to mention that for some reason, my fuel pump now stays on even without the key in the ignition. Anyone know what might be causing this? Thanks in advance guys almost there.

Later,
Phoenix

 

Man this is a good thread....can't wait til the rise of the Phoenix

 

Update: Today I Had my friend put in the knock sensor and coolant fan switch today but due to some transportation issues as well as my friend forgetting his timing gun , we had to call it a day earlier than expected and couldn't get to inspecting the spark plug wires so we'll hopefully finish that tomorrow. The car won't stay on unless I hold the accelerator pedal down and listening to the exhaust note, it really sounds like its misfiring; which wasn't a good idea to begin with because it backfired creating a really loud POP. I'm also going to inspect the TPS tomorrow to see if it needs adjusting. My f/p is still staying on after the key is out so I'll have to figure out what is causing that. I'll keep you posted. Take it e z.

Phoenix

 

Finally after installing the harness yesterday it started up like a champ!!! I don't even have to use starter fluid anymore. The only things left are to:

• Plug the TCL switch back into the tranny; not the connector but the actual switch itself. Why it was taken out ( if you want to know) is because when I had that p.o.s. '88 GTA harness put in by a 'friend' a few months ago, I visited him one day and found that the switch was "just laying on top of the tranny" not to mention it was cut off with about 10 inches of wire left. I started a thread on this piece if you want to check it out: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...html?highlight. Anyway I had another friend (one that likes v8's and not 4 bangers) put in my '89 GTA harness yesterday and he found the hole/female end where that TCL switch plugs into tranny. I had thought that it was broken and that I had to take it to a tranny shop but thats not even the case , just plug in the switch into the tranny, plug in the connector and its finished as far as wiring goes .

• Adjust timing since it won't stop backfiring intermittently for some reason . He tried adjusting it because it was off by a few degrees but it wouldn't advance or retard. We tried jumping the A an B terminals in the ALDL connector but nothing; tried unplugging the EST wire by the brake booster but nothing as well unless it was the wrong connector?. As far as how it runs, it's a much healthier sounding idle compared to before. My friend and I (mostly my freind lol ) made alot of progress in getting it running yesterday.

• Fix a problem with the fuel pump staying on even when I take the key out of the ignition and unplug the relays. I checked the c313 connector by the fuel tank and it was good. The only way it shut off was by taking the fuse out of the main f/p fuse by the battery. I doubt it might be the OPS/FP switch since it was put in new by the rebuild shop I took it to or it could still possibly be defective??? Anyone know what else might cause this? One minor issue that we ran into and fixed was that the car wouldn't stay on without me having my foot on the gas. The problem we thought was the new ecm however it was the PROM or chip that came with it that was the cause since we plugged in my old computer and it turned on right away. The chip itself is another story, it came with the car when I bought it and is a superchips brand chip from '87. Plugged in the new ecm again along with the Superchip and it fired right up. I'll take a snap of the chip and post it on here and see if anyone has any info on it. The car is almost ready to drive and should be done within the next week or two (crossing fingers). I appreciate the valuable info you guys have given me to help me get my car back on the road. I'll keep you posted until its done and on the streets. Take it easy guys.

Later,
Phoenix

 

Whats up? Heres a couple pics of the Superchip that came with my car. I've only seen hypertech, TPI, TPIS and JET chips out there so are these still made? Thanks in advance for any info.




L8R,
Phoenix

 

Update: Yesterday my buddy and I had to cut the day short again because I ended up with an empty tank assuming that it was atleast 1/4 full not to mention we started kinda late and it got dark. We realized that most of it was used up when I tried running the car with the stock chip which was pig rich (even left burnout marks on the street ). Referring to my problem with the f/p staying on at all times, the thing was actually working properly when I ran the car with the small amount of gas that was left in the tank. It would prime for 3 seconds when turned 'on' from 'off' and shut off when switched 'off' from 'on'. Its like it fixed itself or something but my friend told me that it was possibly just a frozen relay or OPFP switch. As for the timing not advancing or retarding, I found that I've been unplugging the wrong ESC connector which is located on the passengers side firewall and not the driver side firewall by the booster . Thanks to the trusty feature, I found that if the ESC connector is not unplugged while performing timing adjustments, the ECM will 'undo' all adjustments made so it has to be disconnected. Due to the gas issue, we couldn't get this job done as we as the TCL switch hooked up so thats tommorrow morning's job. I'm going to fill up a couple of tanks of gas and pick up my friend so we can finsh the car once and for all . I'll keep you post on progress.

Later On,
Phoenix

 

The phoenix has finally risen!!! . I had to put in a remanufactured alternator and tranny fluid but all systems go. For bieng out of tune a bit, the rear wheels break loose off the pavement like nothing when I hold the brake and mash the gas not to mention it leaves nice dark 30ft. marks too . I appreciate all the help in getting my GTA back on the road. I greatly appreciate it guys. Next is the title but that shouldn't be too bad or should it . Take it easy guys.


Phoenix

 

I Adjusted the TPS today to exactly 0.54v and when I performed the WOT test with the key set to 'on', the voltage would jump once sometimes twice back and forth for example: 0.54,0.55,0.56,0.57,0.94,0.43, 0.58,0.59 so this must mean its faulty huh? One thing for sure is the beast responds to the throttle much crispier than before . My total voltage reading at WOT is 4.068 on the voltmeter, is that normal?? I thought 4.000 was normal . I also got around to adjusting the minimum idle air and now I can hear the cam (crane cam which I have no clue on the specs) much better now since idle isn't too choppy like before. It sounds so much healtier now...like it actually has ba**s ! I still have to find out why it pops though. Its not loud like before but the popping is still there and the possible culprit could be a bad rotor. After this and the issue with the f/p staying on is taken care of, its back on the road....well not exactly since I still have to get a replacement title due the the face that I lost it when it was still under the previous owner's name but you learn from you mistakes. Thats another story though lol .

L8R,

Phoenix