My friends dad had a 302. He said it was pretty much a 283 with a 4" bore. Said it would make power out to about 8 grand plus.

 

AMEN! I agree, I wouldn't personally build a 305 for performance but it's much more of an original idea than another 350 build, plus it's always nice to see the underdog do well. I do have to say that building a 302 is sounding more and more like a great way to for me to spend my time. LOL Gotta look into it.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, can't we all just get along!!!!

Drop the fussing! Whatever your opinion is, 305 vs 350, thats not what this thread is about!!!!!! Give the guy some advise on BUILDING HIS 305! Drop the 350 stuff! Either give the guy some advice on his 305, or leave him alone!

 

yep, thats all it is, a 283 with a 4" bore, or a 327/350 with a 3" stroke.

 

I kept trying to work it backwards in my head what stroke the 302 had. That would make for some fun there.

I know this will sound wierd, but what about boring and destroking a 305 and going FI? It would certainly allow for much higher rpms.

 

another fun idea for gen II motors, try to find a L99 it's a 265" LT1, t's got a 3" stroke crank, you could make a LT1 that's almost like an original LT-1!

 

I just started another thread asking for info on the 302 idea. Keep an eye on it and maybe you and I both will get some answers. LOL I think you got the same bug I just got. I got a two piece rear seal 4 bolt main block sitting with all my other extra engines. A 302 might be just what the doctor ordered for my 5sd Z/28.

It would make a great book end for my 383 auto 84 Z/28. I'm still putting a basic 305 in the convertible though.

 

Now I confused. Because a 350 and 305 will never have the same power either under or over the curve..??? In 1987 the stock 305 TPI is 195 hp and a stock 350 TPI is 245 hp. Quit trying to compair apples and oranges. If the Cam's, axle ratios, wheel size, transmission's are different, it will throw off all your dyno's. We are aware that you already know this. If you put the same mods on the 305 and the same mods on the 350, you will notice a major increase in power over the 305 because it is restrictive.

I hope you find a good solution to this problem.

 

You realize that crankshaft and 5.94" PM connecting rods will drop right into a 1 piece rear seal 350 block using normal 350 pistons. Build you a 10:1, 4.030" bore 305 with some vortecs and a hot little roller cam. More power and durability than the old 302 with long rods to boot. I've built one and put it into a 1979 Malibu. That little 305 would flat RUN!

 

I wasn't positive, so I didn't say that it would go into a gen I block, but thats pretty cool.

 

I was referring to both engines having been modded and ending up with the same rwhp. I wasn't referring to the engines in their stock forms.

Example: You mod a 350 and get 300rwhp. You also mod a 305 and 300rwhp. Now the only way to make an informed decision on which car is going to win a race is to see which engine produces more of its power under the curve (this is assuming the cars are identical in every way except displacement).

"Power under the curve" is a mathematical definition of how much area a curve covers. I'm going to give a real basic definition of Power Under the Curve.

The line on the dyno graph that shows power output at a given rpm is called f(x) or g(x), "a" represents the lowest readable rpm, "b" represents the peak of the curve, and dx tells us that we are working on the x-axis (see pictures 1 & 2). You then take the anti-derivative of each function and plug in "b" for x and you also then plug in "a" for x. Subtract a from b and you get the area under the curve. This is a very basic definition, but it is a good way to figure out if your engine is as powerful as you think it is. Now to compare the two graphs to see how much you need to change one of the given setups. You overlay them on each other and find the area between the curves. You subtract the lower curve from the upper curve and you have the area between the curves (picture 3).

I hope this helps you understand my point of view.

 

Wow, this is really "a thread gone wild!"

There has been talk on here about a 302 c.i. Chevy engine. This is really the most successful version of a 5.0 liter Chevy engine. It has the 4.00" 350 bore size and the 3.00" 283 crankshaft throw. This engine was in the original (what I call the "real" Z28's from 1967-69, althought the early 1970's LT1 2nd gens 350's were pretty cool too) Z28's.
They were originally born out of a small journal 327 block with the 4.00" bore size (same as a 350) and a 3.00" throw 283 crank (all 283 and small jornal 327 cranks were small journal and forged steel, late 327 cranks were large journal like a 350 and often cast iron).
This little screamer gave the Boss 302 Mustangs all they could handle and more in SCCA Trans Am racing back in the day, Ala- Mark Donahue (Roger Penske, Sunoco blue Camaro Z28) and Parnelli Jones (mustard yellow, Bud Moore Engineering- Ford Factory Boss 302 Mustang).

Both the Boss 302 and the Z28 302 were built to SCCA rules stating no more than 305 c.i. (5.0 liter) engines, and they had to be homologated (I know I spelled that wrong!), meaning they had to build a certain amount for public purchase in order to considered "stock" and eligible to race in Trans Am.

Later, in 1970, they relaxed the rules to allow the street Camaros, Mustangs, Cudas, Challengers and Javelins to run 350's, 351's, 340's or whatever as long as the actual race cars on the track were 302's. That's why the 1970 Plymouth and Dodge Trans Am replica "Pony Cars", the AAR Cuda and the Challenger TA, had 340's. The Z28 engine was a special animal for Chevy, built mainly to go racing. That is why an original 1967-69 Z28 or 1969-70 Boss 302 Mustang is worth a lot of money today, they are pretty special. Ironically the Pontiac Firebird was never a contender in the Trans Am series, and the street version Trans Ams were big- block powered.

So once again, if you want to build a 5.0 liter Chevy, the 302 is a better choice to start with than the 305. Remember, when Chevy engineers got serious and went 5.0 liter racing, they used the 4.00" bore size. If they would have used the small bore 305 block with the 350 crank throws, they would have been handed their head by Parnelli and Bud. Instead they won several championships and gave birth to a legend.

Same thing in the 1980's. The 5.0 Mustangs had the upper hand on the street. The only way that the early 305 Camaros (now remember, I own an 80's 305 Camaro and am a die hard Chevy lover, but you got to own up to the facts and give your rivals respect where respect is due. Then when you beat them , you have really accomplished something!) was through the gearing of the overdrive transmissions. First gear was really low and then you had overdrive to help up on top. Those things HAD to jump off the line, even if some of them only had around 150 hp!

 

Then..... go build it.
It seems like all these guys that talk about the 305s are just dreaming. There are WAYYYY to many of these 305 threads where people are just talking about what there GOING to do, not what theyve DONE.

Theres way too many of these threads, they should make a sticky about it so people can stop asking the same questions over and over "I have a 305, and I want to keep it. What can I do to make X amount of power" They need to make a sticky that lists some parts that will get you in the 200whp range, 300whp and 400whp range. That would answer a lot of peoples questions and stop these repetitive threads from coming up.

 

Ok. Will do. See you in about 10 years.

 

Ive only had my car 1 year, and it was bone stock when I got it. In that time, I added cam, heads, intake, removed all emissions equipment, added exhaust and headers, and done all the routine maintenance.

Dont see how it could take you 10 years, if youre so tight on money, then I feel sorry for you, could always get a job. I mean 3rd gens are among the cheapest cars you can buy....... You can get a nice 305 thirdgen for under 2,000$ without even searching hard.

 

not in pensacola, nice third gens go for 4-5 thousand around here, maybe find a nice one for 2000 without a motor.

 

Florida is full of F-Bodies, especially 4th gens. And in my area, you cant give away third gens. They had an LT1 swapped 1990 Firebird with 5,000 miles on the new engine for 3,000$ and it passed inspection and emissions. You can get a running car with maybe a few issues for under 1500$ and you can get a nice car for 2 or 3,000$.

If prices are so bad in your area, check ebay.

 

The 305 89 RS I currently have was a birthday present I never asked for. I thank my parents for the $5000 they spent to buy it 6 years ago almost everyday.

And I'm paying my own way through college thank you very much. In addition to that, having a job as a TA doesn't pay very well. I'm on my 4th year of at least 6 in college. This car, along with many other cool things that are to be found in life, is my justification for my 2 degrees: an Associate of Applied Science in Architectural Design and a Bachelor in Building Construction Management (BCM). I'm also considering the possiblity of graduate school to earn my Master in BCM and my Associate of Science in Organizational Leadership and Supervision (OLS). Thats another 3 years right there. And after that I might even try to get my PhD in BCM and my Bachelor or Master in OLS. Thats another 5 years there too. But once I get to that level of education, I'll just about be able to go out and pay cash for a Corvette ZR1 from Lingenfelter.

So in about 3 years I'll have graduated and be working in the construction industry making around $60000 a year straight out of college, and within 5 years almost $80000. But I figure on having to buy a house, buy a new car to replace my 89 RS as a DD, possibly being married by that point and even having a kid or two, not to mention all the other "cost of living" expenses, the very real possibility of continuing my education, and buying about $5000 in tools for my car. I would like to get my car built in a year, but that just doesn't seem realistic to me. If I get to spend $3000-$5000 a year on my car I'll be tickled pink.

Don't assume that everyone is as privileged as you are. Some of us have to bust our asses in order to make it possible to do what we want to do.

 

the main thing is is that nobody will come down on the price, they know how much the have in the car and won't budge. theres a nice third ge thats been on craigslist for several months now, but he dosn't want to budge on the price, If I had what he was asking, I'd buy it, I just don't have 6K. I already have a camaro though, and I can't afford another car anyways!

 

How the hell am I privileged? You dont even know me. Yet again, as usual, you pull stuff out your ***. You should really learn to watch that.

Stop talking like you know something. As ive said, you have to do it, before you can really know it.
If you can spend 500$ in a year, you could EASILY get a more aggressive factory cam and other cheap used factory parts that will get you into the 200hp range.

Go buy the book "How to build max performance chevy small blocks on a budget" by David Vizard. You might learn something, which I know is hard to believe for a know it all like you.

Now seriously, im done talking to you. Its annoying how you pull stuff out your butt constantly, and its hilarious how you constantly talk like you know something... when in reality all you do is quote stuff youve read.
----------
The way the economy is...... ive been seeing nothing but good deals, and nothing but people willing to negotiate. I saw a 1988 Fiero with a Northstar swapped in, asking 5000$. I asked him about it, said hed let it go for almost anything above 3500$ as long as he could get the money within the next week. A lot of people are desperate for money, and if you have the money on hand, theyll let these cars go for peanuts.

Just try offering that guy whatever you have. You never know, if its been on there for months, and he really wants to or needs to sell it. He'll take the best offer and that could be your offer.

But this thread should be locked. Its gone completely off topic..... as all these modding 305 threads do [like ive said, they need to make a sticky about modding these 305s]

 

Well I'm lucky in Mississippi. 3rd gens are a dime a dozen. I have 3, a hard top, a T-Top, and a convertible. The most I have paid was for the drop top, 1,200.oo. The T-Top was 800, and the hard top was 150.oo. Everybody critisized me for paying to much for the convertible, and it was running when I baught it. But I love drop tops and they are hard to find. You should come down here, I know where almost a dozen are for sale right now, you could get a clean, good running version for 1800.oo or so.

 

I never said you were privileged, that was only in comparison to me. You are correct, I know nothing about you. You also know nothing about me. And I don't go pulling stuff out of my ***, and I don't need to watch it. I only make smartassed comments when I know it'll draw a reaction out of someone.

And I can spend more than $500 a year. Just happens to be that eating is a little more important to me than a camshaft.

Also, thanks for the book referral. I rather enjoy reading and always enjoy learning more.

 

Then check that book out. I think its one of the best for showing you ways to get performance out of your small block without busting your wallet.

 

I fully intend to.

 

Send me a PM after you check it out, and youre welcome

 

Looking for the shock and awe effect as your car spanks others on the street...

Swap in a 6.6 duramax that's built to sh*t

Now that would be a jaw dropper

And guess what it would have plenty of power -- Under the curve --

Any way you slice it 283 / 302 / 305 / 327 / 350 / 383 / 377 / 400 / 427

Its still a sbc on the outside

If your looking to spend that kind of money on a 305 swap in a stock lt or ls motor. There's great power and excellent fuel mileage to boot.

Otherwise spend your money on what you want best bang for the buck 305 isn't the way to go. It's been proven time and time again.

I really like the pissing match we had going on here

Reminds me of pirate4x4

 

ive gotten really tired of my 305 so i bought a used 350 goodwrench crate motor for 500 d im swapping my serpentine setup over to it and everything else that would fit the motor comes with a high rise intake a a carb already so im pretty much set to go also the motor has barley any miles on it i believe they said like 10k which im excited about. Good luck with the 305 i got bored of mine quick because you cant make nearly as much power as a 350

 

I'd like to apologize to everyone in this thread that I may have offended by arguing with them. I've figured out in the past few days what you all have been telling me and I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread. My ignorance and/or lack of knowledge caused me to make an *** of myself and I am truly sorry for having offended anyone by doing so. I'll admit it, I was wrong.

By now you're probably wondering what changed my mind about the 305/334. I started arguing area under the curve, and as long as a 305/334 is making the same power as its competitors engine at the same rpm, that argument is valid. But once I started to really dig into it and do the math, especially after comparing identical setups (with the only difference being displacement) it became apparent that while my 334 will have a power curve very similar to a 383, the 383 will be making about 20-30hp more than my 334. That right there kills the area under the curve argument. That coupled with the fact that once I've finished modding a 305 into a 334 (according to my parts list) I'll almost be at the very end of the modding potential of a 305, whereas if I do the same to a 350 or LS engine I'll still have plenty of room left for upgrades. The final thing that made me change my mind was seeing 4 6.2L LS engines in the GMPP 2009 Catalog that I really wanted to see in the 2010 Camaro (L99, LS3, LS376/480, LSA) and my want to have a semi future proof engine when I'm done modding my car. An LS engine or 350 has enough aftermarket to make that a reality.

Do I think the 305 is bad, worthless, or not worth modding? No, not at all. My 305 in my 89 Camaro has been going strong for 20+ years now and has been nothing but reliable and I am pretty sure a 400FWHP 334 would be fun for DD with some strip.

Do I think it unwise to build a 334 with the intent of future proofing the car or for allout power? Yes. The fact that you can build a 350/383 for nearly the same price, buy an LS engine for the about the same price, and have a nearly unlimited aftermarket for both is why I think it better to go with a 350/383 or LS over the 305/334.

Have I completely ruled out going the 334 stroker route? No, I don't intend for it to be an all out race motor when, done. I just want it to be a fun little motor for my car. But a real detractor to doing it is the lack of aftermarket and modding potential which would make the engine rather good as far as future proofing is concerned, and I have better options in both fields if I get an LS engine or 350. I graduate college in about 3 years and I expect it to be about ten years before I get to touch the engine due to me modding the rest of the car first. I have plenty of time to figure out what I really want and how much I want to spend.

 

I've got that one, it's top-notch. Well worth the thirty bucks I paid in exchange for the hundreds it'd save per engine build.