CNECOPS

Hey guys - I'm new to the site and don't even have a Camaro yet however I've wanted one for as long as I can remember. I'm wondering whether or not you all can help me out with some info/input.

I'm looking at building a streetable road monster for around 12 to 13 grand with a three thousand dollar emergency buffer zone. I'm wondering what the best way to go about this is - 1) Building on someone else's hard work - example:spending 2 to 5 grand on someone else's unfinished project and then going from there. 2). Spending less than 2 grand on a car that needs a lot of work.

Keep in mind that my goal is to have the car finished in a matter of six months AT THE MOST. It seems to me, after years of researching these cars, that the aftermarket parts for these cars have such a following that putting together the type of car I'm dreaming of should be a lot like putting together an extremely complicated lego set (if I am careful about the car and parts for it I buy).

My plan right now would be to spend 2 or 3 thousand bucks on a car that runs and is not rusting away but still has a stock 305 or 350 in it that I can rip out and replace with a 450 hp crate engine, new tranny, new rear end, new suspension and new brakes (cosmetics can probably wait). What do you guys think? Is it possible to buy one of these cars and spend ten thousand in the first few months to get it running and running HARD. Anyway, any advice, input, comments, info, etc is much appreciated.

ljnowell

Anything is possible when you have enough money. Be very careful when you buy a car that has already had some of the work done. You wont be able to verify that the engine is what it is, or the trans, etc. You may be buying someone elses shoddy workmanship. Sometimes you spend more in the long run that way fixing all the problems created by the original owner. I would look for a good looking car that someone has popped an engine in. Thirdgens with blown engines dont sell for much, and you can use it as a talking down point because you cant verify the trans, etc. Even though you dont want to use the trans and rear.

Bolt in parts are expensive(rear end, etc) but will be the easiest to install in the long run. Always allow at least a 30% buffer on your budget.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Its a lot cheaper to buy a ready to run car or a car that is almost finished. You can buy a nice 11 or 12 sec 1/4 mile camaro for under 8 or 9,000$ if you look around.

CNECOPS

haha, great - so you guys both disagree with one another. I have a feeling there are two school of thoughts regarding purchasing an old muscle car. Either buy someone else's "running" vehicle that runs low numbers in the quarter or build one yourself in order to avoid problems like the first poster said. I guess I'm just gonna have to continue to get opinions from you guys over the next week or so and make the most educated decision I can. Thanks for the advice so far! Bump
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...although I'm leaning towards this option. It just seems more satisfying in the long run, and being an artist, I cant imagine having to drive someone else's vision. Know what I mean?

QuickStyle

its totally up to you. you might feel more satisfied building the car yourself, but you will spend less than half the money buying a finished or semi-finished car. im currently selling my 88 iroc with a 383 stroker with aluminum heads and a 6 speed trans for $7,000 when the car has around $15,000 into it, runs perfect and have receipts for everything. and as for a daily driver.... it is that, still gets 18mpg city and 27mpg highway

and yes im using this as a cheap plug to sell my car ----> https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cama...c-383-t56.html

Stekman

From someone who's done the whole buy the car, drop a gazillion on it, and still tweaks it, it's FAR more satisfying buying the car and doing the work of upgrading it yourself.

I bought my car for $1500, had an engine fire, then turned around and dropped way too much into it, and I've got sort of what you describe as your goal, although, streetable really isn't a good description for me.

Also, do the engine last. Upgrade everything else first, so that when you put in the bad@$$ motor, everything else on the car is up to snuff. Brakes, suspension, transmission, etc.

CNECOPS

Yah, that sounds a lot like what I'd like to do - minus the engine fire haha. Also, I'd do everything simultaneously. In other words, the engine, tranny, suspension, etc. would be thrown on at about the same time (within the same month). I have other means of transportation if I needed it and I can always buy a little crotch rocket if the gas mileage ends up being insane. The gu above with 383 stroker - wow, you get 18 mpg in the city?? I would think you'd be getting 12 or 13 unless you're running forced induction but even then.....wow. Give me some time to do some shopping and check things out. Good luck and keep the great advice coming guys!

neagan

iTrader: (7)

How good at car building are you? Unless you can provide the vast majority of the labor, your budget is way to low.

I've done three cars and did NOT have the skills to do anything except for switching out parts for like parts. These particular Camaro's were designed to be disposable. They suck up lots and lots of nickel & dimes.

There's nothing in the world like building your own car though and that's why people will spend twice the money and effort to build their own motor instead of buying one off our Classified board. If this is the car you've always wanted and don't mind if it's parked for weeks at a time and are okay with dropping a minimum of 20k, then consider it. $20k might seem like I'm pulling your leg,and it can be done for much cheaper if you have solid mechanical skills, tools, access to wholesale parts. Most of us don't though.

For six thousand dollars you can purchase one that's already a solid performing runner with LOTS of high dollar parts on it and then have the money to start personalizing wheels, interior trim colors, a great radar detector and more. For what I've put into mine, I could have 'almost' bought a new Dodge Challenger or Pontiac's new G8.

I sold my last Camaro 15 years ago and swore I'd never buy another one till I had the funds, the time, and didn't need it as a daily driver. I'm three years and 20+ thousand into mine and when I'm done it's going to be extremely satisfying to drive or to just admire. It's my guess that the 3rd Gen IROC's will be the one to eventually escalate in value. The only reason why I was willing to drop continual funds and time into my 1988 IROC is that I plan on keeping it forever.

If you don't really need a Camaro, two really great fun daily drivers are the 3rd Gen Supra & Lexus SC400. I sold my SC to make room for the Camaro, but I could wind that puppy up to 130mph across the desert and it was smooth as silk for 8-10 hour drives. My IROC will end up being almost as good performace wise, but will never be as silky smooth of a ride or handling package. There's nothing like the drifting capabilities coming out of a corner in a pushrod V8 small-block though!!!

I think you nailed it when you realized the difference between a needy $2k worn out Camaro and a solid foundation $6k ride. Most likely the $2k car will take an extra $12k to get it up to the level of the $6k ride.

The question is: What do YOU think is best right now; project that costs $$$ and requires lots of extra time or the daily driver capability that lacks your personal touches and dosn't need a dedicated garage space?
Good Luck whatever direction you take Nitro-Nicky

P.S.; what's been your favorite car to drive so far?????

blp226

Look for a car that has an LS engine in it if your gonna buy a completed or nearly completed project car. Otherwise put one together yourself. At least you'll know what you really have. An LS would be truly awesome! There is one for sale here with a LS and strong tranny but the car itself is trashed, but LSs are expensive so he is still asking a fair price for the car. If not then just buy a decent clean car, order a 383 crate engine, send the trans that's in the car to have a performance buid put on it, Get the rearend built witha good posi, new torque arm, trailing arms, panhard rod, springs, shocks, upgrade the radiator, maybe some new aftermarket guages just to keep a good eye on that shiny new motor of yours.

Check out spohn performance and hawks 3rd gen. Check out the guage packages specifically for 3rd gens from COVAN'S classic guages. They are three great sites for fixin up your ride. You can get a good 383 from SUMMITT or JEGGS but I'm sure you already know that part.

CNECOPS

wow! lots of feedback - I like it. To answer your question, neagan, my favorite car to drive so far has been the 2002 IS300 I own right now. I thought it was funny that you brought up supras and sc400's b/c I'm a big fan of them, too.

As far as the modding goes, this is really what I'm starting to think of doing - "If not then just buy a decent clean car, order a 383 crate engine, send the trans that's in the car to have a performance buid put on it, Get the rearend built witha good posi, new torque arm, trailing arms, panhard rod, springs, shocks, upgrade the radiator, maybe some new aftermarket guages just to keep a good eye on that shiny new motor of yours."

I've checked out some crate engines that are being sold on ebay and the only difference between the sb's and bb's I found on there and the blueprint engines one finds on jegs are that the ebay engines are being rebuilt and customized by smaller businesses. There is actually a guy on ebay I found last night that builds, as far as I can tell, an extremely reliable and cheap 450hp chevy engine. He's only charging like 3500 or 4000. Jegs is charging more, although they do have some great deals on there. In fact, Jegs is selling a blueprint small block 383, dressed, for $4000. That would leave me a lot of bread to focus on a strong tranny, rear end and the other goodies.

Hmmm - well, I've ended up exactly where I started haha! Some of you say to go with an already built car and save the money while others of you say to trust your own work and do it yourself. One important piece of information - I don't have a shop. My girlfriend's father is rebuilding a triumph and her brother is building a 2nd gen 700 hp camaro so they've got thousands in tools BUT they aint mine and I'm not mechanic. How hard could it be to rip out a chevy engine and throw in a crate? How hard could it be to redo the drivetrain haha>? Wow - I sound naive even as I'm writing this. Well, I guess I've gotta do more research. Keep the advice comin guys!

CNECOPS

o yah, two more things - the guy on ebay has a perfect customer satisfaction record - perfect. 140 reviews and all good over the past two years and change. Second - I've only done slight mods like brake, exhaust and wheel upgrades on my prelude and is300. I DO NOT know how to put an engine together and would never even think of doing that. I'd simply buy a prebuilt, reliable engine and tranny and install them after gutting the stock bay. Am I being naive haha?

blp226

STROKER MOTOR =$5,000.00.
TRANS UPGRADE = $1,200.00.
REAR END UPGRADE= $750.oo.
TRAILING ARMS= $200.oo.
PANHARD ROD= $100.oo.
TORQUE ARM= $250.oo.
COVANS GUAGE CLUSTER= $750.oo

TOTAL

$8250.oo

I looked these prices up from the websites I mentioned in my earlier post. These are all good parts for reputable places. If you know how to install these pieces then your golden.

CNECOPS

^^Thanks man! yah, those are the types of results I'm getting as well. Installation will be a learning process but I think I could swing it.

Check out these deals these guys got on this link - THESE ARE TWO GREAT examples of the types of cars I'd be looking for. 1800 and 1000 for running, pretty platforms. he** yah!
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edit:

Damn, the link isn't working. Anyway, link was of two guys in MD that picked up newly painted 80's camaros that ran solid from the get go for around $1000.

basiccamaro

Yes, you probably are at least just a little naive, but doing it is the only way you will learn it. You will almost assuredly make some mistakes that will cost you a few bucks now and then just like most of us have . That's part of the "fun", and the spirit of hotrodding, go for it!

CNECOPS

You guys should let me know if anybody is selling one with an ls7 engine in it for under ten thousand lol! THEN I'd be golden.

CNECOPS

I believe this is the type of car you guys are talking about when you're sayin I could buy an already built camaro, right?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...0&rdpage=thumb
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It makes ya wonder why he'd sell the thing after only putting 150 miles on the brand new engine - if I did end up going with a car like this, would you guys recommend getting all the receipts and researching the manufacturers/installation facilities that helped rebuild the car? For all I know that guy's crate engine could be producing 300 horses and 300 torque and then I'd sort of be SOL.

CNECOPS

Well, I'm finding that there are a number of options I need to consider if I do decide to drop a new engine and transmission into whatever camaro I buy. I could go the cheaper route and buy something like whats on sale at Jegs right now - a 383 stroker dressed and ready to run for $4000. I could go a step u in apparent quality but a step down in power and buy and install a new LS1 off of Jegs (about $6500). I could go with a Patriot Performance 500 hp gm engine or I could even go all the way and pick up an LS3 - will those fit like I think they should in a late 80's camaro. I'm wondering about transmission, though. Another member suggested upgrading whatever transmission that comes with the car for around 1200 but I'm wondering if spending another 8 or 900 on top of that for a brand new five speed that's rated at 600 hp is more cost efficient and effective in the long run. Let me know what you guys think because we're already getting into territory where any amount of studying and researching won't help answer questions - it's input from those of you with personal experience that will truly help me.

OldCelica

Well, we know already that you want this to be a screaming daily driver. The first thing that I would do is pick my engine, transmission/rear end combo, and suspension/brakes. This is where all the power that you want to transfer to the ground goes through.

Sounds like you are wanting to get a crate engine. I would look at a few factors in picking this. First off since this will be streetable would be the power band. You do not want something that power doesn't kick in until 4000RPM on the street. Something that has a power band of around 2000 (At most) - 6000 would be good. Then you have to look at what is required for that engine to make power. Dual 3" exhaust is possible in these cars, but ground clearance and smog requirements may be an issue. Will the carb and intake fit under the hood without a scoop or cowl (Do you want a scoop or cowl?). What kind of gas is required? You probably don't want to need to run jet fuel in the thing. You probably want to keep the compression down so that premium gas at most is required. Basically I guess I'm getting at the fact that they can say an engine makes 900HP, but that it may not be feasible for your specific application.

As far as the tranny goes I would start by deciding manual or auto. Then decide on a transmission that can handle the HP I'm putting through it. The next thing to consider is gear ratio. The rear end comes into play here as well does tire size. There are quite a few online calculators that can help you figure all this out. Start by picking a top speed (be reasonable here) and match the final gear ratio to that. Then I would try to park common cruising speeds to land in the lower RPM range to get a bit of fuel economy. Example: Sit 35MPH to 1500RPM in 3rd gear.

Then pick your suspension and brake equipment. You want to be able to transfer the HP to the ground without wheel hop or chassis twist. You will also want to be able to corner and stop just as well. Like everything with cars there are so many different possibilities with what you can go with and it really has to do with driver feel that it is hard to recommend much here. Polyurethane bushings are your friend! Bigger brakes will stop better. Disks in back never hurt.

The body and everything else are completely personal preference. If you are looking for something that can be a show quality car start with the straightest body you can.

I would decide what I want first and then go looking at some that may be close to it. You can always part out what you don't want to help fund the parts that you do if it isn't exactly what you want. It wouldn't hurt to test drive a few that are done already to help you decide what you want to do.

CNECOPS

^^That last part is the best advice I've heard so far - like I said above, I test drove a stock 350 iroc for the first time last Spring and new immediately it didn't have the kind of power I wanted.

As far as building the car goes - I'm actually in the process of figuring then figures you speak of out at this moment. I sat for a little while today with my girlfriend's brother and discussed the type of performance I'd need from my transmission and rear end differential. Top speed is not at all a priority - going one hundred some miles an hour over the speed limit is not only dangerous to others, but most importantly, it's dangerous to me haha! So obviously, I'm going to be wanting to go with a gear ratio and tire size that allow superb acceleration while neglecting top speed.

As far as the tranny goes - I'm going to want something that is manual for sure. I'm twenty three and out of the six cars I've owned all but one of them have been manual. A stickshift makes me feel like I'm one with my car - I can't explain it any other way. I also know that I'm going to want to have the option of getting something close to reasonable gas mileage so I've begun to consider five speed overdrive transmission like those being sold on Jegs.com.

I still have many questions, though. For example, why get a six speed and not a five speed? Why go with an LS1 and not a 500hp monster from Patriot Performance? Is Patriot Performance a good company? (some internet surfing I did seems to suggest they have a fine record) Is an Ls3 engine a possibility and, if so, what are the advantages to that over others?

I have many other questions, but am extremely happy with the advice and support I've gotten so far on this site. I've been a member of several IS300 forums and know that there are basically two types of online communities - Those that embrace and inspire guys who are new to the scene, and those that exclude and "flame" the naive/uninformed. This community does not, thankfully, appear to be the latter. Thanks again and keep up the input!

rgarcia63

Don't just look at pictures of cars for sale visit them sit in it, the minute you rear sits in the one you want you know it.
Drop a crate engine in to it until you ready to build one on your own.

You won't regret it.

neagan

iTrader: (7)

I'm going to "Private Message" you, so look for it if you know how- Nitro

CNECOPS

^^Yah I'm familiar with the "pm". I've been active on is300 websites for quite a while now and they operate in much the same way. I'll be waiting for the message.

CNECOPS

bump for more input - build me your dream street demon for fifteen thousand including cost of car. (third gen camaro)