Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The exhaust doesn't use a valve guide seal. There is a little "umbrella" seal that rides with the valve and just covers the valve guide so oil doesn't have a direct path. You have pressure on the exhaust side so it pushes the oil out, not suck it in like on the intake valves.

The exhaust valve guides would have to be machined down to accept a valve guide seal.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

Pic from the service manual. You can see the umbrella seal on the exhaust valve. It moves up and down with the valve. When you install them just push it down until it seats with the valve guide and then it will self center itself when the valvetrain moves.

astrosurfer

OK
so the nylon is right.
weird...never seen this before
thanks for the info man.
Much appreciated.
So the burning of oil cannot be from #1 exhaust valve then?
OK. I can understand that. Adversely does that not mean the ability of exhaust fumes entering the rocker area by means of up through the non sealed stem?

Stekman

Best bet for valve seals are 2 sets of Fel-Pro SS72527. They are the factory positive seals for the intake side, however they will fit the exhaust side just fine as well. Without machine work.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The PCV system takes care of that.

astrosurfer

Ahhhh....thanks
I Though you were gonna say that after i posted earlier.

stekman
I like that idea very much. But now I've cut the bag that the nylon seals are in.
I wonder if they'll take them back still if I am buying the more expensive seals?
Only the outer bag though, the part baggies are still sealed.

astrosurfer

Today's update from me.
Installed the new valve stem seals. There weren't any seals on any of the inlets or exhaust valves, only the little plastic ring from groove #2. This was replaced with rubber o ring. when the new seals went in.
Made sure all the rods were clear of obstruction for oil flow as I was going.
Lashed the valves. I used the OPPOSITES method which seemed to work perfectly.
Added a quart of atf to the oil, and cranked it up.
Much to my surprise it was the quickest start I've had on this particular motor. Not even a 2 second crank and running.
After a minute or so of running I had a semi bright ticking from what seemed to be #4 or #2, this seemed to disappear after a couple of minutes, I guess it just took a minute to lube it all up real good.
Slightest burn of oil on initial start up but quickly went away.
I was impressed with myself....It would seem to be short lived.
Running the car next step was to set the timing at 6 degrees BTDC. With the idle slightly increased. This particularly impressed me that I got way closer to 6 before it tried stammering, There seemed to be no more hinder to it, it just went easy this time.
Noticed that the smoking rear was back. Hmmm. It was pretty good and blue too.
Plugged the computer wires back into the dissy and re-started the engine.
Still it's a little smokey.
Hear the engine management working it's stuff and finally she settles down smooth.
This was the best I've heard it running since I got it.
However a few minutes later I get the stammering and seemingly missing but seemed to be kinda bogging down.
I still have not found where to plug in the O2 sensor. The plastic connector is burnt off and all I have is a metal spike with nowhere to plug or connect it. Seemingly I cannot achieve closed loop withouth this being connected.
My wiring diag shows me I should find a PURPLE wire from the ECM to the sensor. I, for the life of me have searched every wire loom in the engine bay and can find no such wire.
I was thinking I might have a head gasket leak...Not sure what symptoms I should have really and am not sure if it's white smoke or blue smoke now. It's not quite so blue if ye get me.
I shut it down after a few minutes of this poor running. Scratched my head and decided to pack it in for the day.
I went from being impressed to being depressed.
Would the car not going into closed loop affect it this way and is that my first step to solution.??
Thanks as usual for any input/insight.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Does it start running rough as it warms up? Is the choke opening completely? Any knocking or excess valve noise?

The O2 wire should come out of the same loom as the leads to the carburetor. The sensor itself should have a lead (maybe 6" or so) attached to it. If that is missing you'll have to extend the ECM lead.

astrosurfer

It had been running for a good 15 mins.
enough time for me to set the timing and so forth.
Choke was well opened...ambient air temp was around 60ish.
no valve noise...they were set right this time.
At first there was but when the oil circulated around the motor they went silent.
At forst I was impressed with how she was running...but it went sour after about 15 mins.
I'm going out to run again and see how long it takes to go belly up on me today.
I'll pop back later with my results.
thanks

Edit:
The results of today...
Car started first kick...almost before the starter engaged..I was stunned.
Running went well for like 10 mins or so..then the slowing started....
I upped the idle and removed the air cleaner housing etc.
seemed to settle down. Still smoky from the rear.
A young neighbor comes across asking to buy my car...lol. say's it's badass and wants it bad.
No can do bubba. so anyways...
He's asking me what's wrong and I'm telling him all the stuff I've done...you know...generally bragging about how I got it, to what it is now...running but still a bit smoky.
He says it smells like I'm running rich and he's sure it's not oil but gas he smells...He says that oil doesn't burn the eyes like that.
So ....
I'm now desperate to hook up my O2 sensor since I'm now sure I cannot go any further until that is done...I can then tune the carb I guess and see what I've got.
Any suggestions.
I cannot find any wire in the engine bay to hook it up to. Supposed to be purple but it could be anything really.
I guess I'll need to find the ECM and reconnect to there with a new wire.
there is some sheilding melted on the back of the motor at the firewall. However all the wires seem to be intact and none spliced but 1..it's thick and I'm positive it's not for the O2. It carries on through the loom anyways.
There are various loose wires around the engine bay but nostly on the passenger side going to the top of the motor and carb etc. None are purple tho. And all are capped off. I know I still got a mess to clean up in there....i.e. finding what they are and hooking up to the component if it's there.
I know the vac lines are not all hoked up right and the thin 1 that goes around the back of the motor rof the vac sensor is melted in half.
Not sure if this is affecting anything now.
I'll stop at this and see what anyone thinks about these few issues.

Thanks guys.
All have been a super help so far.
I'm nearly there. I can taste it.

naf

iTrader: (7)

"There are various loose wires around the engine bay but nostly on the passenger side going to the top of the motor and carb etc."

Your O2 wire should be one of these. It comes out of the pass side wire loom along with the carburetor's Mixture Control Solenoid (MCS) and Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).

Your vacuum line to the vac sensor, which is mounted on the driver's side firewall, near the brake booster, is also necessary for open loop operation.

MCS clicking like it's supposed to?

astrosurfer

What is the MCS?
I'll look at those wires again.
thanks for help.
Soon as i get home with light in the day I'll do it.
Can't find that thin vac hose at AZ or o'reilly's.
I'll keep looking for it.

Stekman

Mixture control solenoid.

astrosurfer

thanks
kinda feel a little dumb but I had no idea.
I'll be back with findings

astrosurfer

OK
it's been a couple of days since I worked on the car
I did today.
found the O2 sensor wire...not purple...it's pink.
It's wired now and the car seemed to be running greatish.
I went ahead and got some new plugs and wires...installed those and all went well.
no apparent change was noticable.
About 10 mins or more of running and I'm still seeing the expansion tank filling pretty good with boiling water. It's a new pump mind. Only hose that is not getting hot or any water is the one on top of the pump for the heater.
I did put the thermostat back in and that's when it started the bubbling thing.
I'm thinking I'll take that out and see if things change...could be no good.
Anyways...the car is running and JUST DIES. Won't crank up again. turning over and stuff.
I HAVE fuel to carb. It's jetting in and I can smell it as I turn it over.
I do NOT have spark. Now I go to AZ and I buy a coil and put in it.
Still nothing.
I have 12V at the coil and stuff.
Any help will be a big plus today.
Anything I can measure on the ECM for voltage or what?
I've tried unplugging the 4 wire connector too to no avail.
Back to being depressed about this.
Plugs came out a little dirty/ sooty meaning a rich burn but hopefully the O2 sensor being re-plugged will fix that.
If I get this motor running again.
Did notice a couple of droplets of water on the #6 plug when it came out tho.
might have touched it on something on the way out but it looked like it was on the electrode too.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

I would suspect the ignition module in the distributor for the starting issue. The ECM is pretty dumb. It controls ignition advance/retard but it isn't in control of triggering the spark plugs to fire.

If you are getting boiling water going into the overflow tank you may have a head gasket or cracked block/head issue. This a 5.0L HO car, correct? Is the electric cooling fan turning on? It should come on around 235 degrees and cool the engine down to around 210 and then begin the process again.

astrosurfer

I have fan running constant for now during diagnostics.
I was thinking that it had to be the ign module too and not the ECM.
I don't recall it happening before I put the thermostat back in from coolant flow diagnostics.
Although now that might make sense as I saw water droplets on plug 6 upon removal.
Still doesn't resolve spark.
Gonna pick up module tomorrow.
Thanks

naf

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't jump into replacing the head gaskets just yet. Several other things could be causing the radiator overflow.

Check your radiator cap. A bad cap will not allow the system to maintain high pressure and will let coolant boil out even when the motor's not overheating. Sometimes it's easier to simply replace the cap with a new one when it looks suspect.

Pressure test the system. You may be able to 'rent' a tester from one of the chains? I've never checked them. I've always had access to a compressor and can install a temporary fitting into the water system at the manifold.

DO NOT pull your heads off until you KNOW that the gaskets are the problem.

Also FYI: A poorly running motor will run hotter than a motor in proper tune. If it's not receiving an optimum mixture of fuel/air AND spark at the correct time it's going to burn MORE fuel for the same power requirements. The extra fuel, instead of providing power to the piston stroke, is mostly adding heat to the system. Unless it's running REALLY poorly though the radiator/fan should be able to manage this additional heat. 'Course we don't know what kind of shape your radiator's in. Airway clear? Fins free of obstructions?

Failing ICM will usually result in a no spark upon hot motor re-start. Once it cools back down it will typically start back up. For it to suddenly stop running is NOT typical failure of the ICM, although it's probably possible. I'd suspect something else is causing it to stop running and then a hot ICM is preventing spark on attempted re-start. Just a guess on this one though.

Stekman

A compression tester could also be used to check for cylinder sealing issues.

astrosurfer

@ naf
The motor was running really sweet dude.
No smoke from the rear or nothing.
It's come a long way from when I got it.
Thanks to the help I got here from you guys.
I know there was water on plug 6...100% know it was water.
That would make sense about the bubbles in the tank.
also the hose from the top of the pump was cold and I know I had it full of water before I started it up.
I removed the thermostat again. rad cap seems to fit good and tight and actually looks fairly new. However I will look into possible replacement.
Motor still has no spark when cold but has 12V at coil.
Turns over fine. It was like it just died a sudden death by firing squad. No warning no nothing. I was trying to figure out why no water in top hose.
Every time I popped the hose back on it built pressure and gushed air.
I know it's not blocked because I blew into it when the motor was stopped and water came out of the top of the pump.
So now I need to get it running and figure out where the air is coming from in the coolant...or gas mix/ exhaust fumes.
I need to smell the coolant I guess.
That would tell me alot too would it not?

@ stekman.
How can I use my compression tester to evaluate sealing issues man?
I can do it if i know how. EDIT:...I think I know what you mean here.
I should build pressure in the gauge, then make sure both valves are fully closed then I could hold the release valve on the tester for a while and see if I have leakdown, or up as the case may be if it's the gaskets.
Be hard to tell if it's gaskets or cracks tho would it not?

Thanks for the rope in cylinder trick...worked a charm dude.

As usual...THANKS TO ALL.

Stekman

Basically, what is being suggested with the block/head/head gasket issue is that somehow cylinder pressure is bleeding off into the cooling system. That means that a cylinder is not holding pressure. Compression test is what you performed back on page 1. Checking the PSI of each cylinder. If one is abnormally low compared to all the others, then there's a sealing issue somewhere. But if all 8 are holding good pressure, then the coolant issue you are experiencing is not related to a cylinder leak.

I agree with naf, perform all possible tests before yanking the heads off.

astrosurfer

I agree with that.
Now I have just come back inside from re-attempted start.
I still have no spark but 12V at the coil...which is brand new yesterday.
Any way to test the ICM.
Surely it does something with the 12 V supply it receives.
I have means to test it if I know what to look for.

Also...I was hoping not to...but I removed my evap bottle cap and sniffed with my nose deep inside...and I was thinking I was smelling gasoline...
Also thinking I was smelling plastic, I decided to take off the radiator cap to sniff in there.
cap looks very new. Rubber seal seems to be in good order and it's a tight screw in and out.
I am 100% sure I can smell gasoline worse in there than I did in the evap bottle.
In reality I wish I was just making this up to convince me about the gaskets.
But realistically I'm not happy about probably having to pull the heads.
It's not actually something I can afford if I encounter problems. Seeing as I'll need to look at shelling out for resurfacing...or skimming as I know it.
By going that far into the motor, (which is a little farther than I planned) I might as well go pull it and rebuild. That's not as good financially either. considering what it's cost to get to here and find that it might be costing alot more is a little disheartening.
I don't think anyone rebuilds 305's any more...they just upgrade to a 350 and be done with it.
I am however going to do the further testing and look into every alley before I do.
But I can definitely smell petrol (is what I've always called it, being Scottish and all) in the water.
I wish I could test it....hmmm.
could There actually be a test like a ph value or something.
I'm gonna google that in a minute.
Am I right about the compression tester tho. About how to use it for leak test?

Stekman

Autozone can test ICM's. Just pull it, bring it to them, they hook it up and tell you if it's good or bad.

Evap bottle? You mean the overflow tank? Yea, there's really only one way for fuel to get into the cooling system - cylinder leak, somewhere. There are such things as combustion leak test kits, specifically designed for testing the presence of combustion gases in coolant. We have one at the shop, however I do not know that that is something that Autozone or any other parts store loans out. Up to you on if it would be something you wish to invest in or not, try googling it and see what you think.

Compression tester and leak-down testers are 2 different things. Compression testers just check the PSI in a cylinder. A leak-down test tells you how % of leakage and can indicate where it's leaking from, as you are inserting compressed air into the cylinder. If there's a substantial leak, the air will go somewhere - out the tail pipe means an exhaust valve not sealing, out the dipstick or breather means poor ring seal, and bubbles in the coolant mean leakage into a water jacket.

Personally, I would get the car running, first. Once it's running, then worry about whether or not you have an issue with cylinder sealing.

Edit: Does it bubble out the overflow with the t-stat removed from the engine?

astrosurfer

I don't recall it doing it but I'll check for sure since I have thermostat out again.
I'll whip out that ICM tonight and hopefully get it to AZ for testing.
I did ask on sunday if they could test coils and they said no...so I didn't even bother to ask about the ICM.

astrosurfer

OK
Today's update is here.
The ICM was toast...AZ could not test but o'riellys did.
That sucker failed on every red light.
Grabbed the new 1 while I was there and went back home.
Installed the part and double checked my TDC #1 was on compression stroke. Re-checked all my wire placement etc.
Cranked the car and hit up first time.
Run well except there's a definite stumble to be seen, and heard. It's definitely there. So it's got to be chamber related because everything else is new.
I still have bubbling in the expansion tank but it's not surging the water to it like yesterday. But I'm also guessing that by not allowing the motor to reach the higher running temperature I'm hampering that from happening. Temp is around 160 ish fan on.
Would that make the motor run rich?
How do I know I have gone into closed loop? Any way to tell?
My oil pan gasket is leaking from the front under the timing cover..but that has not been replaced yet.

Stekman

At least it's running again.

Don't jump to any conclusions about a cylinder being toast without any form of evidence that it is. There are many things that can cause a motor to have a misfire. As suggested, perform the tests, verify - then tear down.

The best way to verify open or closed loop status is with a scan tool. I know on later models you can jump the ALDL and the SES light will flash at a certain speed, per amount of time to show whether or not the car is in open or closed loop. Not sure if it will work on a q-jet or not, but it might be worth a try:

Locate the ALDL (under the dash): Jump the A and B terminals (also the procedure to check for trouble codes). It should flash 5 times per 2 seconds for open loop, and 1 flash per 2 seconds for closed loop. Again, though. I know this works on later models, may or may not work for you. Haven't had a stock motor in a long time to play around with.

astrosurfer

That's another thing
I don't have an ignition light or anything.
I have a choke light coming on when I turn the key to on.
It goes out after car warms up.
Have brake light too when starting..but goes off.
I'm wondering if someone has pulled a bunch of bulbs to compensate for errors in the past.
Looking to pull the dash and check on this soon. It's bugging the heck out of me.
I'll try that above and see what I get out of it man.
Thanks again stekman.
Always so helpful.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

When you turn the key to ON but not start the engine you should get a "Check Engine", "Choke", and the "Brake" light if the hand brake is applied. If the hand brake is off it will bulb test the "Brake" light when you turn the key to CRANK. Once the engine is started and the key released to ON the "Check Engine" and "Choke" lights should turn off immediately.

If the "Choke" light is staying on after the engine is running you have a problem with the choke on the carb or the alternator charging circuit.

You need to get the "Check Engine" light working to see what the computer is doing. Is the computer even there?? It is a big silver box under the right side of the dash. You'll have to pull the hush panel it access it.

astrosurfer

yeah the computer is there.
I said earlier that I traced the wire for my O2 sensor to be a different colour than stated in the wiring diagram.
I get the brake light coz the handbrake is on right now...but no check engine light.
I'm guessing someone has removed bulb for that reason.
I'm gonna pull the dash.
I was talking to a car technician today at AZ.
Pointed me to some block sealer stuff. I'm gonna try that and see if there's any difference.
Got me some stabiliser bushings and a master cylinder gasket.
Fluid looks nasty and pedals are spongy.
I know what to do there.

Stekman

Be careful, take the Autozone advice with a grain of salt. Have been in more than a few Autozone's where they suggest something or try to come up with something and it just boggles my mind how someone can be so far in left field, they're playing in a different ball park.

If you have an absolute system critical leak, block sealer won't do too much. Not sure what they pointed out, but if it's like Bars Leak, works alright for sealing the little areas here and there, it will do nothing for a head gasket leak or similar.

Would not suprise me at all, given the state of that car, to find out that someone pulled the SES bulb. Hell, I pulled mine first thing.

Once things are normal, probably would be wise to completely flush out pretty much every fluid in that car - including brakes. I would actually put a brake flush next on the list, under getting the motor running right. Spongy is probably due to air in the system mixed with hell-who-knows what kind of condition brake hoses or caliper seals, etc.

astrosurfer

ok
it was not an AZ guy who told me about the block sealer, it was an actual mechanic.
There are several different kinds depending how much you want to spend.
On another note about the dash lights, most of the bulbs had no to poor contact so I cleaned and tested them. 4 are missing. Included the ses. I changed 1 to that location and popped the panel back in to find that I still had no SES. I guess I need to test further in behind @ the connectors to see what I got going on there. Still just choke light.
I'll finish there for now
time to wash the paws and eat some supper.
Once again I thank you guys for continued support.
the brakes look new and new pins etc on calipers. Fluid is nasty though. Planning on complete system empty and refill and bleed.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The service manual has trouble shooting for an inop Check Engine light. I'll scan them in and post the pages.

astrosurfer

thanks man
that would be mighty handy, and unbelievably awesome that you'd share it with me.
I'll be looking at my wiring diagram for tracing back to ecm or whatever.
Seatbelt light also does not come on.
However I did have dash lights all over.
I'm about #4 on a 1-10 scale of concerned about the ses light now. 10 being high.
I know I have the ability to do all this.
All the help I have received has brought me a long way to here.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

Here are the trouble shooting pages out of the factory '84 Firebird service manual. I didn't even know there was a remote light driver for the Check Engine light. I thought that was all in the ECM. I'm not sure where it is. I looked at the picture diagrams under the electrical section and there isn't anything shown in the dash pics. I know on my car there is a small light green box near the ECM that is taped to the dash frame. I wonder if that might be it.

astrosurfer

dude that's awesome man.
I don't know what I did...but I have a check engine light now.At first it did not light at all no matter what.
I was only testing around for ground confirmation from pin A.
Was able to choke the trouble codes out of it and all seems to be well.
I have 2 codes.
15 and 41.
both causes I know about. Although I don't kow where the cam sensor is. I'm suspecting it's on the back of the motor with no wires attached to it. Is that the correct location? Behind the motor at the drivers side? If not...which one is that?
more progress is good.
I should be borrowing a pressure tester tomorrow from boss and can pressurize the system for coolant leaks.
I'll update saturday and sunday.
I have purchased some stabilizer link kits and a brake master cylinder gasket that need installing.
Another little purchase was the mechanics stethoscope. I was trying to determine if I had an injector malfunction on my 4th gen. What a cool little tool that is.
I'm also gonna make me an ALDL cable for the fun of it. So I can hook up the laptop to it and look around.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

Code 15 is an open coolant sensor circuit. Its either a bad sensor(its in the thermostat housing) or a wiring problem

Code 41 is no distributor reference pulses to the ECM. This was probably set when the ignition module died. There is no cam sensor. The ECM gets the engine rotation information from the distributor.

First I'd try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes to clear the codes and then see if they come back again with the engine running. It takes at least five minutes for Code 15 to be set if there is a problem.

The only sensor you'll find on the back of the engine on the driver's side is a cold feed sensor on the head for the hood louver system. Its prevents the flapper door from opening until the engine is warmed up.

astrosurfer

louvre opening hinder ok.
well it works fine and there's no wires hooked up to it.
The thermostat wires are cut and it's aftermarket with a chinchy gauge mounted under the dash.
I will be replacing the t'stat shortly with a real 1.
I'm sure the ECM will like to know. Might even trim the fuel a bit though I'm not sure about that.
Anyways thanks again for all info. I'd surely be nowhere without everyone's help so far.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The coolant sensor in the thermostat housing is very important. It is one of the inputs that the ECM uses to properly control the air/fuel mixture. Without it I doubt the ECM will go into closed loop mode either.

The sensor for the dash gauge is in the drivers side head. Its completely independent of the computer system.

If the hood louver system is functioning without the cold feed switch then the same person that cut up the ECM coolant sensor wiring probably also did their hacker wiring magic there too!

astrosurfer

OK
I see what you mean.
I was sure that the thermostat needed to be replaced for some sort of engine management because there was 2 wires for it.
usually there would only be 1 like there is if it was merely for temp reading and use the housing for ground.
I'm supposed to work tomorrow weather permitting...but also if it's raining I'll surely not get anything done on the car.
The main thing bothering me now is the bubbling coolant.
Some things I need to check as of reading the DTC's...
Alternator current/voltage...code 41 mentions that somewhere I think. It does sit above 14v if I recall....I did notice it was higher than my firebird which gave me a little concern..but that is on the dash gauge so I'll test it on my DMM and see what it is.
No seatbelt light....
Also I need to still get underneath again and look at the caps and rod bearings.
If all looks well I'll install the 1 pc gasket and button her up.
choke light stays on for a short time...I'll measure the time next time I start the motor.
I'll check the wire loom for a joint in the wires which could be for the louvre. I'm sure it's just bypassed straight to the vac sensor that operates it seeing as I popped a vac line on there and it opens up fine. Originally it was wire tied back to the open position.
I'm thinking someone was trying to make a race car out of this.

What all affects closed loop operation?
Can I tell I'm in it without a scanner tool?

Stekman

https://www.thirdgen.org/open-loop-closed-loop

That's a pretty basic idea of open/closed loop
Scroll up to post 125.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The factory '84 Firebird service manual has no mention of Code 41 having anything to do with alternator voltage. You may be looking at a discription of Code 41 from a different model year. The ECM gets the distributor reference pulses from the ignition module, which you just replaced.

The factory dash volt meter are optimistic by about 1-1.5V. I think this is by design as they all seem to show about 14.5V when in reality the alternator is putting out around 13.5V.

See my post #13 in this thread for fixing the seat belt light and chime.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...elt-chime.html

astrosurfer

Thanks
I guess I was reading from another year....I think it was 86-89 perhaps...it said vin G which is what I have...I might just have it all confused. I did read also about the module too.
Today I have no codes at all. I replaced my thermostat and bought the wire connector to the tune of $27....lol...not cheap by any means.
I'll look at that thread in a minute.
Now it seems I have no choke light...lol. And my dash lights are messed up too. Having a PITA taking this dash in and out.
Bout busted a finger putting it in earlier as it snapped around the column...lol.
It's just aggravating. I'm thinking one of them ribbons did not seat properly coz my temp gauge is screwy and when I switch on my dash lights now my tach drops to a negative...lol...what a hoot I'm having.
So a few scratches of the head and I gave up for the night.
I run that block sealer in there and followed the instructions to the letter.
Still get the bubbling but I'm supposed to now leave the system open for 24 hrs to cure.
We'll see if it does anything.
Didn't get all my work done today so I've got to do a little tomorrow.
Hoping the rain stays away long enough for me to get under and look at the caps and perhaps change out that rear seal...or at least rip it out and take it to the parts store for match up seeing as there's like 3 diff kinds.

Oh well...my quest continues.

Another thing I noticed was some sort of pipe coming from the CAT on the side...it's just blowing exhaust fumes and seems to go nowhere. I'm wondering if that's supposed to return to the motor for the EGR?.
There seems to be nothing to hook it to...but also I'm not aware of what I should be looking for.
Couldn't find a chiltons manual at oreilly's and AZ just has haynes.
Should I just get the haynes?
Many folks say chiltons is best but I've always had haynes for all my vehicles.

Anyways...
Once again I am grateful to all and any replies.

P.S. I re-read post #125...lol...sorry for asking again. Something was telling me to read stuff again but I just seem to keep babbling on.
It's just how I am.

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

It sounds like you lost a ground connection on the gauge cluster. Its probably just a connection problem with the connector on the dash board and the flexible circuit board on the back of the cluster. A stainless steel wire brush or a pencil eraser will clean the contacts.

That pipe coming from the converter is the air injection port. There should be a check valve on the end of it and then a hose that goes to the A.I.R. diverter valve behind the alternator. The A.I.R. pump is below the alternator. Its an emissions device so its not real important right now as far as getting the engine running correctly. I would plug the pipe going to the converter for now.

astrosurfer

OK
that smog pump is long gone it seems.
I'm thinking that's what you mean.
Don't see anything else there behind the alternator.
There just seems to be an open pipe down at the cat. With no valve of any kind.
I'll suss a way to plug it.
I did notice that bubbling was worse today in the exp tank. And the stuttering was enhanced too.
Seemed to go away a little when running the sealer in the coolant.
But now the system is drained and open as per instructions. So I cannot run car tomorrow.
Looking to get under if I can and look at the bottom end. Do the non running stuff If I can...like the stabilizer bushings and stuff.
Got a master cylinder gasket installed but the fluid is naf.
Got brand new fluid and If I get time I'm gonna do the system tomorrow. 1 Slow pump at a time.
Stupid me was pressing the brake without the cap on the reservoir. watching the voltmeter dip without the motor running. Boy did I find a mess when I opened the hood. Nice smell when it burns off the header...lol.

astrosurfer

OK fellas....
It's been a few days since my last update.
Today I borrowed a coolant system pressure tester and got to work.
I did it full and no pressure loss or water leaks.
I emptied the system of water. re-pressurised with just air.
Still no pressure loss. No air noise nothing. Even turned motor by hand just incase there was a cylinder wall leak but nada.
Pleased with the results obviously.

Fill system again and re-test. All fine.
I start the car and I've still got bubbling coming up in my coolant. Watched it for a while with the radiator cap off, Keeping it topped up etc. Put cap on and it's still coming bubbling in the expansion tank. I gave it time with the cap off to see if it was just air in the system but it's too much for that. Just constant 1/4" size bubbles.
So now I'm stuck on that.

On another note...I've narrowed my misfiring down to cylinder #7. It's the only plug wire removal which does not change the motor. It seems to be sparking but no power in the cyl.
I can't compression test til tomorrow when the motor is cool enough to work around.
I'll post my findings.
Any help about the coolant you guys?

Stekman

You say bubbling as in not spewing into the tank, but rather like air bubbles just floating up? First off, sounds like the pressure cap isn't holding pressure if it's leaking into the overflow as you initially start it.

Second, it can take some time to completely bleed a system of air. I recall doing mine in my Lumina a while back and it takes a few drive cycles with the Lever vent open to bleed the air.

naf

iTrader: (7)

If it correctly passed a pressure test, it's not boiling over into the the relief tank OR passing excess air into it through the rad cap. Ensure the rad cap is properly installed, like it was when the pressure test was conducted.

I'd also loosen the rockers on the #7 cylinder before going much further down that road-provided it IS sparking and doesn't just SEEM to be sparking.

Start SIMPLE

astrosurfer

cap was properly installed.
I was observing this with the cap off also.
Basically the whole 30 mins of run time...I was getting this bubbling.
I think I'll take a video of it today if I get time.
I'm going out now to pull that plug and see what's what...stick my compression tester on it and diagnose what I know how to.
Thanks guys and I'll post in a little while what I find.

astrosurfer

OK
I loosened the lifters and no change.
Compression test was poorer than the first time. I only got it to go to 60 psi. Over 2 revolutions it went 35-60 and would not go any more than that.
So it seems I have hit that wall again.
Spark tester is hitting like the others so it's not a spark or fuel issue.
It has to be down to compression.

astrosurfer

squirted some oil into cylinder #7 today and put the compression tester on it.
First stroke it's hitting 60 but will not go much over that maybe 65 psi with continued revolutions that's the peak.
This I believe to probably mean bad news. And more work.
Depressed big time right now.
Hoping someone has any idea before I end up tearing it down.\
what about a really fouled up valve?
That's the cylinder that the shorted plug came out of...way back in the beginning of the thread.
I'm wondering if I should try some seafoam down the carb and see what gives?
I managed to hook it up to my computer by fabricating an aldl cable and using winaldl.
Pretty cool stuff.
Next run I'll pay attention and possibly screenshot any concerns I have.

Stekman

Means the ring seal is adequate, meaning you're loosing compression either through the HG or a bad valve. If it were my engine, a head would be coming off right about now. If you look at the valves for cyl. 7, is one sitting slightly lower than the other (stuck valve)?

Have you changed out to new plugs since you pulled them on page 1 (I don't remember if you have or have not...sorry)? If you have, is the 7 plug ground strap mashed in again?

If you have access to compressed air and a spark plug fitting, try injecting air into the cyl. with the piston at TDC. Air will leak out somewhere, indicating source of compression loss.