I'd like to convert to a roller cam, but don't have the budget for aftermarket roller lifters- but if I can get away using OEM parts, that will bring the cost down signifigantly.

I've seen a guy on ebay advertising a way to use an OEM spider, rollers, p-rods, etc, and retrofit an earlier 2pc RMS block. My 350 and 305 both do NOT have the bosses in the lifter valley for drilling/tapping to secure the spider.....has anyone else done anything similar to a block of similar vintage?

 

If your goal is to go roller cam with the blocks you've listed, you'd be time and money ahead to go with the retro fit roller cam and the horizonal bar style roller lifter. You could have your block fitted for a cam retainer plate and choose the newer style cam and thus eliminate the need for a cam button but most wisely choose a cam / lifter & timing gear kit. Either way, you're stuck with a pre-87 block. Moving up to a roller cam is gonna cost ya. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it?

 

The way you do it using pure OEM stuff in a 2pc RMS block is dicey. You have to drill and tap directly into the main oiling galley, and seal it off so it doesn't leak. It's risky, and most people trash their blocks doing this.
Do a search on the forum for this, it's been posted about before. It's along the lines of "hack job" however, and if anyone has been successful doing it, they haven't had the moxy to post back up and brag about it.

PS - I'd do it if it were me... I think it's not an insurmountable difficulty. Also, you need 1997 and up Chev 2.2L roller lifters IIRC.... Not stock SBC ones.

 

Forget all that stuff. Just use non-aligned roller lifters.
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http://performanceresearchinc.com/

 

A wise man once said that if you have to ask how much it cost, you can't afford it.....and I have a feeling with no prices listed on their website, I fall into that category .

I have to be VERY delicate w/ what I do and ask for with the Z- we are expecting a bouncing baby girl in 4.5 months, and if mama ain't happy, nobody- even the Z, ain't happy.

But, if I can mod my 350 block before I take it to the machine shop for cleaning, doing the OEM style might be do-able (read: Budget). I'm trying to plan what to budget for so I can get started on it by the end of summer.

 

Yes, those lifters are pricey, and you still need a button on the timing cover. They are considerably more expensive than the link bar type rollers.

Honestly, a 1987-later block is a good starting point. Short of that, the machining on the block to accept the "dog bone" lifter retainers might cost as much as a good, rebuildable used engine with a roller setup.

 

look at this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ck-accept.html

Obviously some people have ruined engines by grinding and drilling their blocks. There is a way to do it with NO drilling and only VERY LIGHT grinding to the block.

I am in the process of doing this to a 350 and a 406 right now. I picked up the lifters for free and the spiders for 8 bucks. I have one pair of the composite dogbone replacments on order right now which should be here in a couple of days.
The composite guides should fit with almost no block mods needed, I only see a couple of small humps that need a little touch up to make those clear.
And just as an experiment I decided to grind a few steel dogbones down to see if it can be done with only VERY minor block clearencing. Well success, I have a set of metal dogbones that are plenty strong still and will require only a light touch up on the block. I have 110% confidence that this will work just fine. By concentrating most of the work on the dogbones the amount of block mod is reduced greatly.

I was going to put the composite link setups on both engines, but the recontoured steel dogbones fit so well that I think I'll hold off on ordering the second set.

As for the spider, we are not drilling the block at all. Instead we are welding another piece of sheetmetal to the spider to push it down from the bottom of the heads. almost like a reversed spider in a way. All of this has cost less that 40 bucks and will allow 2 perfectly good blocks to benefit from a hyd roller setup. I feel alot more confident with with what I've got here than I would have with any of the aftermarket hyd roller linkage solutions that I have seen so far.

Also there are a lot of guys doing this very same thing to buick V6 engines. Now the buick guys dont have the vast array of aftermarket solutions SBC guys have, so rather than being thought of as cheapskates, junkers, thrashers, or hack jobers these guys are considered creative.

I feel bad for the people who have had problems converting with the v6 lifters, but if you do this carefully it should work perfectly fine. A mod like this does not have to be a "Hack Job" unless thats just the way you work.

The 350 will be running this summer (the 406 is for a much later project)and I'll report the results here, with some pictures.

Marvin

 

I have a couple of those lifters with the little dowel pin (schubeck I think?)that somebody gave me a few years ago. I found their price once, ridiculous! So simple, and so overpriced.

If I were starting from scratch for the two small blocks I'm doing right now, sure I'd look for a roller block. But the 350 has a fresh bore job and bottom end and 400's never had rollers anyhow.

 

Do you have to flatten the tops of the lifter bores for the dog bones to sit on?

 

I got a 400 block I'd like to convert. keep us posted on your project. I was thinking that the spring steel setup that holds lifter valley baffles in place might work on the spider. It sounds kinda like your approach. Might even be possible to modify a lifter valley baffle instead of the factory spider.

 

yes, what we are doing is a lot like the image above,except we are attaching the handmade pieces to a stock spider.

not much, just a tiny bit, most of the grinding is on the dogbones. The composite ones should be even less work(I'll know later this week).
Grinding the dogbones may scare some people, but even if i ground them farther than i am now they should provide more strength than the link bar used on aftermarket lifters.
I'll try to take detailed pictures of the grinding as soon as i get a chance later this week.

 

You guys have my curiousity piqued again.....if you don't mind, I'd like to see pics of your progress. Car has taken a backburner to home improvemnt projects and strollers and cribs and the like more and more, but I do have an old Wieand Stealth that I need to get into the machine shop for baking/cleaning, and will have that to do in another month or 3 months, depending on when the baby timer goes off and playtime allowed by mama and baby. Since the intake will already be off......

 

i have a roller block for sale ..it still has she cam and crank in it..came out of a 91 bird..would take 100 for it if you need it

 

i have a roller block for sale ..it still has she cam and crank in it..came out of a 91 bird..would take 100 for it if you need it

 

Thanks but no thanks.....I'm looking to keep my current 305 as I only have about 3k on the entire engine, and this is something I'm debating on for a 350 4 bolt I have that's patiently waiting on the engine stand for a build.

 

Hawk- take a deep breath and realize that there is no inexpensive way to convert to roller. You can try some teeny-bopper trick stuff to put late model roller lifters into it but I think if you're honest with yourself you already know deep down that is a solution that's got some serious potential drawbacks even if done right, and a guaranteed loser if done wrong.

Dig deep and pony up for the retrofit roller kit (about $750 to convert a 2 piece RMS engine to roller cam when all the shouting is over) or start fresh with a late model factory roller block.

The number one budget killer of all time is having to do something twice.

When you decide to color outside the lines (do stuff with machinery what was never designed to work together) things can get expensive and frustrating. Maybe you get lucky and nail it on the first try. Odds are against that, though.

 

The composite lifter guides are here. As an experiment we are grinding the block to clear both the metal dogbones and the composite pieces to see which is the better way to go.

Right away I have noticed that the composite pieces require almost as much grinding around the back side of the lifter bores as a ground dogbone does. Not quite as much, but close. I did not have my camera available today while grinding like I had hoped to, but I will have some pictures. Unfortunately it may be hard to tell how much we took off since somebody got a wild hair and started to smooth the valley walls before this stage was finished.
There is one issue with the composite guides. At the top of the piece there is a minor clearance problem with the little piece that ties each pair of lifters together. it is probably not going to be much of a problem and I will have a good picture of that needs to be done, with a measurement.more details on that in a few days.
I'm also going to look into a different dogbone that I noticed the other day. I think the spacing is right, or at least close enough to fit, and it has a different outer profile that may simplify a small part of the conversion. anyhow I'll test that next week and let you know what I found.
Marvin