Just a quick question. Been trying to fix the wiring on my '86 Trans Am. Yesterday, ran it for a while, everything seemed okay, minus a rough idle that wanted to stall. Usually runs fairly well, just stalls at startup, unless you give it some gas.

Went to fire it up this morning, and it wouldn't crank. Thought the battery might be dying, so I charged that up.

When it did turn over (third try), the belts immediately began screaming, and it was pouring thick white smoke out the exhaust. Not a little, but smokescreen amounts.

Gauges looked alright, and I shut it off pretty quickly. This just kills me, since I was so close to tracking down the electrical problem.

 

Belts screaming? Do you mean the engine accessory belts? If one of the accessories is siezed up, it wouldn't want to crank and the belt would make a lot of noise once it did start.

As far as smoke out the exhaust, I don't see the connection to a siezed accessory unless the belt driven smog pump was somehow going crazy (full of oil)???

I guess that's a long shot.

 

Sorry, yes, I mean one of the engine accessory belts.

No smog pump, so it's not that.

It was running last night, running quite well actually. Would a belt seize up in such a short period of time?

I just got it to run a second time. Started out okay, then idle shot to 2100 or so, and the smoke started pouring out.

 

What does the smoke smell like? Sweetish like antifreeze? Full of unburnt fuel? Or is it burned oil.

 

I wish I could tell you, but I don't have much sense of smell. Sounds funny, but I really don't.

Went and fired it up again; I stand corrected, it's more bluish, than just white.

 

So this smoking is all of the sudden today. Not that it has smoked in the past and just gradually gotten worse, then.

Also assuming that the difficulty starting and the belt squealing are new today. Correct?

Belts themself won't sieze. But I was thinking if say your alternator (just to name an accessory) had somehow siezed, the motor wouldn't want to turn over. Like I said, kindof a long shot.

Smoke like you are describing could mean burning oil or running really rich. Wouldn't expect either of those to happen suddenly though.

Any chance someone snuck the car out and broke a piston ring last night? haha

Sorry, i'm out of ideas.

 

Totally correct. No smoke previously. No belts squealing, nothing. Just a bad idle. So, all of these symptoms are completely brand new.

Given that it's bluish in tint, I'm guessing burning oil....why this just randomly decided to happen, is kinda beyond me.

Although, the car has a lot of miles on it; if the engine is original.....maybe it's just it's time, lol.

 

Update, went to the car, tried to start it up.

First two times, it shorted out, and didn't want to crank.

Third time, it got about halfway there, the engine made a banging noise, and it died. Not a backfire, but a banging from inside the engine compartment.

Fourth time: Huge cloud of black smoke out the back, then blue/white smoke. Engine sounded like an elephant stomping around. Oil pressure skyrocketed.

And then.....

Nothing. Idle stayed solid (at 2000rpm, but solid). No smoke. No noises. Drove it into my garage, and didn't have to give it any gas or anything. Parked it, idle went back up to 2000, and it seems okay.

Now I'm really at a loss of ideas.

The car has a gamut of other problems, so it's in my best interest to just rip it apart and fix everything I can find.....this is just really bizarre.

 

Are you sure that the starter is shorting out? Could the engine or accessories be siezed or almost siezed (i'm still thinking about the screaming belts)? If you want to eliminate the possibility of a stuck accessory you could take the belts off and see if the engine will crank easier. Of course if it starts, shut if off right away as you will have no coolant flow, charging, etc.

This is getting really strange. This banging inside the engine compartment is a concern. I'm shooting in the dark here, but could this be internal engine damage? Could your timing chain have slipped a tooth?

If you want to confirm the condition of the engine, a compression test would give you some information. One or more cylinders being really different from the rest would indicate a problem.

Sorry I can't help more. These are really just guesses of things you could try.

 

ok first of all I would take off your belts and check to see if all acc. are free to turn.
I would be willing to bet that the last time you started the motor that you blew a belt off the motor, if this is what happened then it should be pretty obvious which acc is bad.
if the belt didnt break take it or them off start the motor and see how it runs then just dont keep it running for long with no water pump or alt running.
try that and then report back.

 

Checked the belts and accessories. Everything turns fine, and the belts look okay. Everything where it should be.

Started the car yesterday, with the belts back on, fired right up. Idle problem again, but no smoke. Check engine light is back on, but given the countless other things wrong with the car, I've committed to just taking it apart, and rebuilding anyway.

Also, to 327Chevy: I believe it is the starter. I can turn the key to on/acc, and all the lights come on, gauges move, everything seems fine. Voltage of battery is normal. Turn the key to start, and all the electrical dies. Turn the key to off, then back on again, no lights, no gauges, nothing.

I had the thought, that since i had the hood open a few days ago, and it was raining lightly (for about half an hour before I realized it, and closed the hood), that maybe I sucked some water into the engine. But I just don't see where that would have happened.

 

wow, uhm..... Car's haunted. Do you have any Porsche speedster parts on it... like, James Deans Porsche Speedster parts?
hm.
well... Sounds like it's got 10 problems at once. Since you have an elephant resembling noise from within the Engine compartment, and Smoke, I'd venture bad rings, or low oil?
The belts squealing? I'd venture since you had the hood off and such, that they got wet, and there was some surface rust that needed dealing with...
What throws me off is that you started it up, and drove it into the garage no problem.... That's frikkin weird.
you're prolly right in that you should take it out and overhaul it in a snece.
good Luck, brother. Keep us updated.

 

Haha, I may indeed have some kind of ghost. Hopefully nothing as severe as the James Dean Curse, though. Dreadful stuff.

What utterly kills me, is that with each thing I track down, I find something else wrong.

Allow me to introduce my abomination, named "Jezebel":



The only thing I have touched, is the A/C, and the air intake, in that picture. All the rest is basically how I got it.

My o2 sensor wire looks shot. Same with my coolant temp sensor. My fuel lines were (past tense) resting on the headers.

I have several wires behind both headlights, that seem to be randomly spliced together, and/or burned. Some are just exposed wires. Have a half dozen of those, right off my positive battery cable. Other things are just flat out missing.

And yet, I drove this thing for nearly a month with a bad idle/reluctant to start being the only serious issue. Got 20-22 mpg, even.

I have two questions while I'm disassembling this, and I'm sure they're both noob type questions.

The first, is that I have two open tubes, back by my oil/tranny dipsticks. I looked in one, and it's hollow, the other seems to have a filter of some type in it. But they're just open ended. I'm thinking one is for the AIR system? Maybe both? They look like they've been cut with a hacksaw.

Second question: I've read up on how to do the throttle body bypass. I also intend to remove my heater core completely, so I was wondering if I can simply cap the outlet from the intake manifold, and cap the inlet on the radiator, and remove that entire system?

The car is being turned into a weekend only type car. Will be indoors in cold weather, etc; so I don't care about heat, or the possibility of the TB freezing.

I'm taking everything out, redoing all the wiring, and rebuilding the engine. Just want to verify a few things that don't need to go back in, before I take a bottle of holy water and a sawzall to it.

 

"My o2 sensor wire looks shot. Same with my coolant temp sensor. My fuel lines were (past tense) resting on the headers.

I have several wires behind both headlights, that seem to be randomly spliced together, and/or burned. Some are just exposed wires. Have a half dozen of those, right off my positive battery cable. Other things are just flat out missing."


And You wonder why you had Problems!?! Haha, wow, brother... wow.
Since those wires are cooked and 'shot' the ECU and such are trying to compensate for the crazy signals coming from the haxd wires... Don't ask me to get into specifics... But, It could cause the engine to run fast. The times that you start the car and it runs fine are times that these wires are miraculously in such a position that they can send information without too much of a problem, i.e lined up without a break in the wire... I duhno, it's tough to explain, but, to my simplistic mind, it makes sense...

Ok...replace the Cooked wires... THat should clear a few things up.
And,
The 2 tubes going back by the dipsticks... If I'm not mistaken,. those go to the Heater core (Assuming they go into the firewall) unless you're using your heater, you don't need those.
The Capping of the inlet to the Intake manifold I believe is ok to do, and the Capping off the inlet to the radiator shouldn't hurt anything either (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about anything)

 

Does this engine have an oil cooler like shown below?

 

Not hoses, but tubes. My heater hoses are still in place, these are something else. They tuck underneath the firewall, and seem to go down by the transmission.

As far as the wires and whatnot....you're not kidding. The more I dig around in this car, the more and more surprised I am that it functioned at all.

Supervisor42: I found these:



Which my Haynes Manual describes as oil cooler lines, but they definitely don't look like what you provided. Otherwise, no, I don't have what is shown in your pic.

 

Maybe they're the 'tubes' that go to the trans from the trans intercooler(That mini radiator)? Other than that, I don't know what they might be, without being there to Investimagate...

 

Took a picture, for reference.



Random other question: Was this something vital?:



That also shows a good case of two wires randomly spliced together. And exposed. For no obvious reason.

 

Top picture=AIR tubes, since it's got headers they're disconnected on the other end.
Bottom picture=temp sensor (probably controlled the cooling fan relay)
The wires probably went to the top relay in the pic (which may have controlled the cooling fan), twisted together to bypass the relay to make the fan run when the key is on. I'm just guessing since I don't have a schematic for an '86. What a mess...

 

Sounds like he's got it right on, That was pretty much what came to my mind when I saw the pics. That is indeed a mess... How much you get the car for?

 

Haha.....surely you jest.

It's a very long story, but here's the short version:

Had a 300zx (cost $1600), which I traded for a Ford Explorer.
Traded the Ford Explorer for two Mitsubishi 3000GTs.
Parted one out, and made about $2000 off it.
Drove the other for a while, until the transmission ecu and main ecu fried, and the car died. Got tired of messing with it.

Traded that for this car.

Do I regret it? Eh.....maybe a bit. The 3000GT was a fun car. But..... the guy I got it from, is going to give me $450 to repair one of my other cars (1989 Supra), to make up for the problems with this one. And FWD was killing me.

So, overall.....I made $850, and wound up with an '86 TA with WS6 package. It might be a mess, but you can't beat the price

To you and Supervisor42: Thanks greatly for the info. This will really make things a lot easier when I start pulling parts into the keep and "don't keep" piles.


On a side note, would it make sense to keep adding pics to this thread, when I come across more things; or to make a new thread? Don't really want to litter the forums with a hundred posts of me asking about parts, lol.

 

I can't stand FWD. Supras and 300zx's are sweet cars though. I test drove a 300ZX once, guy wanted $800 for it... I Liked it, but the Pedals were really realy close toghether for someone who's got size 12 boots on... haha.
Sounds like you got a helluva deal for the car, but, you may end up putting the $850 into the car at the end of the day. haha
Nah, keep postin on this forum, I say. Unless there's a specific problem... I mean, Me and Supervisor are already subscribed to this forum, so, Maybe we can continue to help...and maybe some other guys will find the forum and chime in. I say the best time to post is about 9-10 at night, because it seems like that's when the guys who continue to check the New Post tab are on... and they're smart and quick to reply.
Anywho, hope to hear how the car turns out, and mayeb help along the way.

 

I appreciate all the help. I've torn an '83 Z28 down to the shell before, but the TPI is new to me; and with everything being a mess, it's making things difficult to track down properly.

I may indeed end up putting $800+ into this car, but at that point it'll hopefully be put together the way it ought to be. Plus, there's a good likelihood I'll just yank the engine out and put it into another project car (1971 Z), and look for a 350 for this one.

That aside, ran into something else. This is a hose, with a bolt in the end of it. Is it an adjustment or something? Seems way too crude to have a practical purpose, but I just can't tell anymore. Connects to metal piping, that goes back towards the firewall:




"WTF is this" is becoming my favorite game....

 

Now, the first picture you posted shows the charcoal cannister in place and the hose hooked to it. WTF?
It is the evaporation line that goes to the gas tank. Fumes from the gas tank go into the charcoal canister to be stored until the engine can burn them. Put it back in.

 

It's actually just resting on top of it. Bad camera perspective.

 

looks like a heater hose

 

I followed it back to the firewall, it actually goes down, and into the transmission tunnel. Going to have to climb under the car to see where it ends.

 

So, I pulled the engine out.

Things I've found:

1. There are holes drilled into my headers. Why? I don't know. They're small, and don't look like a sensor went into them or anything. Just random holes drilled. Lovely.

2. The tube with the bolt attached to it, goes all the way back towards the fuel tank, and then I can't see where it goes. I'm going to guess it was supposed to be plugged into the charcoal canister, and is the vent for the fuel tank. Except that the charcoal canister didn't have any plugs that weren't connected. Unless the things that were attached to it, were incorrect. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

3. My transmission was attached to the engine by three bolts. Made it easy to disconnect, but that's still not a good thing.

4. Looks like the gasket between the TPI manifold and the block, is falling apart, and I think there's actually gaps. May be part of the vacuum leak I had.

And so begins the fun.

 

1) That was a cheap way to make the car louder, usually its done to y-pipes but occasionally idiots will do them to more parts

2) That is for the charcoal canister
The canister should have 2 ports, a large one that fits that and a small one that connects to the TB (lower port)
The red connector in the pic goes to the canister
You can remove it without any ill effects pretty easily: Vented gas cap, plug the line(or remove it) plug the TB port

3) Not good, the lines in question you pictured are transmission cooler lines to the radiator

4) Likely, the TPI unit has 5 gaskets above the manifold/head gaskets
7 gaskets to mess up a seal on. Be thorough and you wont have a problem

Grab a beer, they make the hours not seem so long

 

This car is a mess. Wish you lived nearby so I can help with this. The holes in the headers were probable drilled in to put air tubes in, unless there is more than 1 per tube (then the person that did that was an idiot). The hose with the bolt in it lookes like a heater hose, but if it goes back to the tank, it's the fuel vapor line, needs to be plugged in to a charcoal canister. The sensor on the radiator is not a sensor. Aftermarket radiators have that for level sensors. It's just a plug so they can use the same radiator tank for multiple units. The small steel lines are the transmission cooler lines. They go to the radiator and back to the tranny. Like I said, wish you lived close by so I can help you with this. I love figuring out other peoples shotty work in an attempt to make things different.

 

Wow dude.... Wow... Wish I could help somehow. These guys have pretty much covered your issues... But, I wish I could help apply this knowledge. all I can say is keep us posted.

 

It's alright, you guys are being a tremendous help.

I also have this:



Which I'm trying to figure out. I've got a picture of the vacuum lines for the 85-86 Firebird, but this doesn't match up.

http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/g...3d8016381d.gif

That's what I'm using.

It starts on the driver side, goes underneath to the passenger side, and was connected to a T-fitting that tied into the CCV.

I'm going to guess that since I have a valve cover with just a breather on it, that they rerouted the intake manifold line over to the other side?

Any harm in this? It strikes me that it would mean that the air from the ccv, is going both to the TB, and my intake manifold....not sure if that would cause a negative effect or not.

I keep fighting the urge to throw this thing into a lake, and find a decent 350 with a carb......

 

Can toss it into my garage !! lol

ANyways, looks like you got your work cut out for you.

Is that tube toward the firewall or front of the car on the other side of the EGR ?]

And where did it start on the Drivers side, brake booster?

 

Not sure how to describe it better.....it goes from the intake manifold on the driver side (picture above), to a t-fitting which also connects to the the driver side valve cover. Shown here (somewhat):



I did have a brake booster line that

My thought is...if the intake manifold has a slight vacuum, and the TB has a slight vacuum....just seems like it's a bad idea to have two vacuums off one line. But I'm not entirely sure of what I'm talking about, so I'll be glad to be corrected, lol.

I do actually have the engine up on Craigslist...not that I've had any interest from anyone on it.

I need to browse through TGO, and find every post I can about what things can be blocked off on the TPI, and create a diagram from it, so when I take it apart, and reassemble, I can just leave off all the unnecessary things.

 

Looks to me that the Driver side PCV is not connected. Is that where the breather is? There should be a PCV on the driver side connected to the lower intake. Not a long hose either. The passenger side should be from the passenger side breather to the throttle body. Not sure why anyone would do this differently, but it will work the way he has it. All it is doing is taking the crank case pressure and putting it into where it can be reburned. Also, vacuum from the intake and the throttle body are the same vacuum. They are one in the same, but the stock locations are pretty straight forward.