Last summer my car refused to start (not even crank) one morning. Then it started, then it didn't, then it did, then it didn't. Then it finally decided to give up all together one day in my works parking lot. It sat there for 2 or 3 weeks with me trying each day to start it just for kicks (plus i was saving the money for a tow). It never started. The day I finally paid for the tow, I thought for the hell of it, I would try and start it. Of course, with the camaro looking at the tow truck, it fired right up. It died a month later permanently in my drive to never start again. It sat there all winter. Its first winter as it has always been stored inside. I considered it punishment for pissing me off and refusing to start, as if it had started, it would have comfortably had a spot in a heated garage cross town.

This spring I decided it was time to cough up money for yet another tow and have it taken to a family friends shop. He had it for a day, told me to come pick it up, it was fixed. After speaking with him, he told me he simply bypassed the vats. When he passed an ohm meter through the key sensor, it showed that the resistance was bouncing all over the place, hinting that the reader in the ignition was damaged and or had a loose wire. He told me he measured the resistance of my key, combined two resistors together, and inserted them into the coupling that goes to the vats. The car ran great, fired up every time. I drove it as often as i possibly could for just over a week.....

Then it didn't start one morning.
Then it did.
Then it didn't.

The car has sat in my driveway for the past month, when it could have been enjoying numerous sunny days with the tops off, but no. I had spoken to the mechanic that fixed my car and got the impression that if i were to have him look at it again, i'd have to pay for the tow again myself. The $300 i paid him the first time to fix it would not cover a re-tow. So i finally decided to try and fix it myself with the help of this board. I'm hoping somebody has an idea that may fix the problem.

So far my troubleshooting has included...

I checked to see if the resistors had come loose as they were simply taped into the coupling. Made sure they were in place, it still wouldn't start. It wouldn't fire or crank. I get a security light when trying to start it.

Then I cut the wires of leading to the ignition switch, and connected the resistors directly to that, and plugged in the coupler to the other one that leads to the vats, same thing, no crank, security light.

I then verified that the resistance of my keys are the same as that of the resistors (and thus varified the resistors hadn't blown)

Then I touched one wire to one side of the key resistor, and the other to the other side of the key resistor, and used my other set of keys to try and start the car, same deal, security light, no start.

Ive noticed that when I don't complete the circuit at all, as in I don't connect the vats wire to anything, any resistor, the car still doesn't crank, but the security light does not come on.

This is all I have learned thus far, I'm hoping someone else could tell me why, short of a completely gone vats, would I be getting a security light, and no crank, if I'm bypassing it correctly.

Thanks for the help.

 

First off you need to be 100% sure all the battery cable connections are clean and tight. Now, all that the resistors are doing is by-passing the ignition switch. There is still a "starter enable" relay in the VATS. Here is a link for some info and a repair. This is for a Corvette but it should give some insight.

http://www.vatssucks.com/

Joel

 

Thanks so much for the link. I'm gonna check it out right now. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. Anyone else with any ideas, also, please chime in.

Thanks everyone

 

I had no idea that vats in general was such a problem. That was a great link. I'm hoping someone can answer this question, but, if I am getting a security light when trying to start and it isn't cranking, is it safe to assume it is the vats system? I'm going to focus my troubleshooting on the vats for now unless anyone can think of another reason why the security light would come on and it wouldn't crank.

Tomorrow I'm going to focus and make absolutely positive that the vats ignition bypass is set up 100% correctly and the resistance is dead on. If it still doesn't crank, I'm going to move on to possibly replacing the vats starter relay which disheartens me because I don't want to have to remove the dash panels as I have a tendency to lose screws.

 

also, if anyone could chime in about this. I did some reading using the almighty search feature. I'm slightly confused. The starter enable relay according to the vatssucks website is located behind the dash panel above the stereo, of course this is in a camaro. I've read that the starter enable relay in a camaro is behind the driver side kick panel. Which is the case for an 89 iroc z. Thanks guys

 

run vats - on search and bypass and you will get a ton of general as well as specific stuff.
the vats module is located near the fuse box just above your left foot. if you get a new one you either get the key and vats at the same time or you take your key into the dealer and let him match it, if he can.
also - there are a lot of components to the vats. an old car like ours - it is not uncommon that the vats reader - where you put the key in - is not reading - hence a vats bypass.
here is how vats works. you turn on the key and you charge the system. the computer comes on and says - hey vats are you kool? if he does not get a YES answer it is always NO, and the computer screams THIEF and shuts down.
now when the vats gets the signal it shoot a question to the reader and it asks - what is your resistor level. sort of like asking - what is your sign in a really tacky bar, but the key shoots the resistor signal back to the vats. alctually its just little electrons moving back and forth.
so if the vats module does not send back the right resistor level it screams STOP THIEF and tells the ecm no conforming signal and the system shuts down.
if the vats module asks for a code and it does not get a code - its a shut down.
if you unplug the vats module then the ecm asks if the vats reads a correct resistance and if there is no vats it gets no signal and it shuts down.
default is always STOP THIEF and then it faints - shuts down.
that is as simple as i can make it.
and dont forget a fusable link too - but if its gone nothing starts.
you can also get a new chip and dont have it ask for the vats signal and the problem will not take place but your security system will be gone.
that is a start - good luck.

 

well, i verified that my keys are 885k ohms and that I am actually dead on with my resistors at 885k ohms, so I threw a multimeter on the green line out of the starter enable relay and verified that when I turn the key, I am getting 10 volts out of the relay on the green line. So I assume his shows the enable relay is working fine. From what I've read, the next step in the starting sequence is the automatic transmision switch located under the shifter plate. Does anybody recommend I try and tackle that next? Does anyone have any ideas as to what my next move should be? Would it be easier to bypass the vats as ive read by connecting i believe the brown wire from the shifter switch to the yellow wire under the dash, off the top of my head i can't remember what wire it was, but i know i read it. thanks for anyones input

 

I was going to suggest this last night, but I assumed your mechanic actually checked. Need to verify if the starter solonoid is in fact getting power when the ignition switch is turned to the "start" position. Check with a test light on the small wire while a helper turns the ignition switch. If current is there, it won't be a VATS issue. If current is not there, then possibly could be Park/neutral switch.

Joel

 

ThAnks for the quick reply. I'm gonna have to wait for somebody to help me verify if the starter is getting a signal, in the meantime I took the shifter plate off and found the switch. All of the vats bypassing information I found said to cross a brown / white wire from that switch to the yellow of the ignition, however this switch only has the green which I believe goes to the starter enable relay and a large purple wire and some other small wires

 

i did a test on the shifter switch and see i am getting 9 volts out on the purple line when I try to start the car. I see by looking at some diagrams the next step for this wire is on to a crank fuse, and then I believe onto the starter. If I am getting a voltage on this purple wire, then i'm assuming either my fuse is blown, or my starter is so bad that it isn't even clicking. because even if the vats is cutting the fuel and what not, if im getting a voltage right out of that shifter switch on the purple wire, the starter should try to crank right? is my logic correct?

 

VATS controlls the injectors pulse and the starter engagement.

Joel

 

well, it starts. it lives!!!! my guess is a bad spot on the starter because when i jumped the starter, it cranked. when i jumped the starter with the car in run, it started. The key then proceeded to start the car every time. so my guess is the starter has a bad spot and will need to be replaced. thanks everyone for your help. im just sad i ripped out my stereo, the shift plate, and a bunch of wiring under the dash trying to troubleshoot. I would have checked the starter sooner, but I didn't have a decent jack.

Thanks everyone

 

So did you forget about the security light? On my '99 S10 the security light turns off after the engine starts.

 

the security light seems to have vanished with my following the vats circuit with the multimeter. I believe it had to do with the possible loose connection on my key bypass setup. I think my car had both problems simultaneously, the key bypass issue and the starter issue. Luckily for me, as with almost all my luck, it was short lived, as I went out to enjoy the beautiful weather today with the tops off, the car now chooses to crank, but refuse to fire. This of course, has never happened before, and is further evidence that god truly hates me.

 

i think what pisses me off most is how often i see piece of ****, rusted through, ****ed up, bumper missing 3rd gens on the road, pumping out enough smoke to kill a horse, no rebuild, all original engine. 150 thousand miles on the engine. but hey...... it still runs.

my ****ing car, mint ****ing condition. perfect interior. perfect original paint. engine rebuilt 6000 miles ago, and ive spent more time and money looking at it in the ****ing driveway than some a-hole who's car can barely support his own weight because the floor is rusted through... fml.

 

third gens love money. You throw a couple hundred more at her and she'll run just fine for a little while longer until she gets hungry again.

 

You know I was going to post "when you least expect it, or want it to happen, it's not going to start." But, naw I shouldn't jinks the guy he's had enough, or has he? But, really I don't hate you.

 

that was quite humorous...

H-town, TX

 

yea, this car is haunted and cursed. It now starts, although I think I have a dead battery as I always seem to be jumping it to start it initially. But it starts and drives fine everytime now, and I didn't do anything.

 

well my car does the same type of stuff they must be sisters... IMMA JUST GET A BIBLE TO KEEP IN MY CAR

H-TOWN, TX

 

Exorcism, anyone? I just started to have this problem on my 91 RS. I had to replace the ignition lock cylinder over a month ago. I got the cylinder from O'Reilly's, and eventually had to get the key from a GM dealership. It took a couple of hours to complete the work. But, after all was done, the car fired up just fine. Fast forward (or rewind) to yesterday... I'm getting ready to leave the house. I hop in, throw the key in the ignition.... No start.... Dash lights work.... Fuel pump primes.... Radio cuts out when I try to start the car.... But no click..... Initially, when I would try to start the car, the security light would not come on. I then used a dummy key that came with the new cylinder, and the security light illuminated. I've found the relay behind the driver kick panel. I have no idea if it is bad. I think I have ruled out a VATS problem. I am thinking it's either the starter enable relay or a bad starter. Any comments or suggestions?

Tyler

 

same happened to me after I unpluged the starter enable relay got security but no crank what so ever then I shorted the two outer cables and worked I still get security once in a while but I am currently making a circuit that mimics the VATS since the ECM is looking for a 5V 30Hz signal

 

You were able to get the car to start? I jumpered the two outer wires (the larger ones) and the car would crank over, but not start. I have assumed that the starter enable relay is bad. It has been a rat race to try to find one here in Wichita. I broke down and paid the dealership twice what O'Reilly would've charged just so I can get it here tomorrow. What would happen if I jumpered the remaining two wires (the small ones) together? From what I can gather, one is from the ignition switch, the other is from, or to, the neutral safety switch.

 

I dont know where the others come from I am currently looking for that aswell I was able to get it going because of the previouse mod for the VATS system that was built such as the resistor but it started to give me more problems so I am building a mod circuit to bypass the VATS completely