yamban

I need some help...I have a 1987 camaro with a stock 350TPI. I recently took off the plenum to polish it and completed today! Ok so I was out there getting ready to put everything back together and figured I would tell my bud, who was just sitting in the car to roll down both windows so it can air out. Well, he then thought it would be cool to see what would happen if he cranked it over. Let me mention that I had small wads of paper towel stuffed inside the top of the runner tubes. When he cranked it I guess 6 got sucked into the engine because I could only find 2.


So in short, there is 6 small peices of paper towel inside my runners/ deeper into my engine! Would it hurt my engine if I put everything back together and started her up/drove?

thanks alot!

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

I would say its not good for it, but would burn up in combustion chamber, try it!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

If it's paper towel you might get away with it. I've seen other things (rags, screws, small tools) get sucked into an engine (mostly boat engines) that will bend valves.

First I'd slap you're buddy upside the head and make him go fishin' with one of those springy 3 prong tool retriever thingies.

Have you tried the shop vac yet? Stick it in each runner and turn the engine over by hand to open the valves. You might be able to suck the paper towel back out that way.

Personally, if it were my engine, I wouldn't run it until I had the paper towel cleaned out.

FWIW

300hpse

iTrader: (2)

Worst I ever saw was a buddy had just finished buildling a 454 for his truck, finally got it in and fired up. Ran fine for about 30 sec then the sound just turned awful and you could hear something had gone wrong. We initially found a couple pieces of burned up fabric that had come out the exaust and so the engine was pulled out and disassembled. A shop rag had been left in the intake (we assumed when the carb was put on) and had wrapped itself around the intake valve which stuck it open and struck an aluminum piston. Final damage tally was bent valve, shattered piston and a very nicely bent rod.

OP, if it was just a paper paper towel and not some sort of heavier cloth or rag, you may be ok but if i were you I would try to fish it out.

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

your friend wouldn't happen to be the same guy that shot the ecm?

yamban

I'll get the shop vac out good idea... he's useless and I wouldn't let him stick anything in my engine haha. They were just small little ***** just enough to hold in the runner tubes.

Geez now I can't get all the plenum bolts lined up! It just wont work lol... keep tryin.


And what friend that blew the emc? My ecm is/has always been good

yamban

So I got it all back together, started it up and it does not run. Dam. The first crank it started up for like 2 seconds and was sputtering REALLY rough then died. Now it just cranks and sounds weak and slow.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

did you get the towels out??

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

there was a guy on here about a week ago that posted a thread about his friend shooting the ecm with a gun.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...ly-please.html

yamban

I guess the initial crank by my friend had sucked them down pretty far because nothing came up when I used the shop vac, or fishing with a hook.

I'm going to have to take my engine appart right? That will be the complete opposite from what I want to hear because I HIGHLY dout my mechanical skills will allow my to do that. Maybe appart, but not back together. How about a mechanic?

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Pulling the heads is no big deal. Pain in the ****, yup but it's doable. I've done them in boats standing on my head. Hardest part is torquing them back on correctly. You'll need an upper end rebuild kit. Don't think they're that expensive.

yamban

I would then have to remove the plenum again correct? Or could I just take the manifold off with everything attached? Hell I don't even know if you need to take off the manifold to remove the heads. There's a SBC rebuild book at a store near me... that would probably help.


The car cranks over and we had it sputter once when trying to start her... Plugs are good, there's fuel, so what could the paper towel be doing? I'd assume its clogged somewhere preventing air to reach the chamber. Anyone know what could be going on in there? Just so I have an idea?

ksith

if you had the paper towel wadded up then there is a chance that it got stuck in one of your valves if i were you to be safe i would take apart the top end not that difficult but yes a pain in the ****. and for sure get the small block rebuild book that will help out a lot. and get the chilton or haynes manual for your car that also helps tremendously.

chas0218

Try just removing the intake first, you might be able to pull the paper towel back thru the intake ports in the head. Thats if it didnt go down into the combustion chamber. If all else fails looks like ur taking the heads off. Its a minor job just make sure u label stuff. I have done it so many times now i remember where everything goes. Also pictures help, i did that when i have to replace the head gaskets on my step-mom's intrepid...PITA

Good luck, Chas

yamban

Yeah they were those half sheet paper towels rolled into *****. I'm going to bring it down to our good friend's shop who is a mechanic and see what he can do. If its too much then I'll have to do it myself . It shouldn't be too bad I guess... is the sbc rebuild book actually have step by step? I'm just a little mad that I just put a new set of gaskets on today and will probably end up taking them off in a few days haa. Also i'd like to thank you all for your posts and helping me through it!

quickkris2006

iTrader: (2)

where are u located? if ur close i can take apart and reassemble a motor with my eyes closed.. well not really with my eyes closed but u know what i mean.. ill do it for cheap if your close enough

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Pulling the manifold is easy and you can see inside of the combustion chamber through the spark plug holes. The engine would have to be out to see inside though. For the amount you probably have invested I would take it apart to be sure.

chas0218

why would he have to pull the engine? all you need is a mirror. If you pull the heads you wont need to pull the engine either. I have pulled my heads 3 or 4 times in the past year and the motor stayed in every time. I also did a piston and rod change with the motor in the engine too...That was a PITA.

yamban

Well I talked to a co workers husband whos a mechanic, and he said that the paper towel might be stuck in the bottom of the manifold/ caught in the heads. The worst he said could happen is some bent/ broken valves and pushrods.

So the reality of this is finally sinking in. I'm pretty nervous about the whole dis-assembly but like I said I am going to pick up a few books. At least I can clean it up a bit inside and replace a few things. Maybe some 1.5 rocker rollers or something. New heads would be a nice upgrade since its appart but I still have to get this car on the road and buy a cheapy winter beater.

When I had the plenum off before, the bottom of the runners didn't have any room to be removed because of the fuel rails. After undoing the few screws holding them on, they still wouldn't budge. At that point I didn't have any reason to go deeper so I just put the screws back in. Maybe its just stuck on there? Light tap with a hammer?

quickkris2006, I would be interested in that but live in ontario canada,appreciate the offer though!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Look how the fuel rails are held on, if there's nothing holding them down they should move... I dont know TPI, though.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Couldn't imaging using a light and mirror to see inside. Worth a try I guess.

Tracy Steverson

What about removing the plugs and using a borescope? Anyone ever tried? I may would even just try to remove plugs and turn over engine with the starter to see if anything would blow out of the hole under compression stroke.
Would even go so far as to spray a penetrating type oil in the cylinders to try and dampen the paper to soften.

yamban

Sorry for not replying i've been pretty busy. Now after cranking it over for a small bit, I removed a few plugs and they were all dry. Apon smelling them they all had a hint of gas but nothing strong. The paper towels could not have messed anything up in the fuel system could it?

Also I had a mechanic come over and hook up a scan tool. He was doing a bunch of stuff and told me its showing no RPM when its cranked over which is odd. I'm going to take it down to his shop sometime this week (hes a family friend and is doing this all out of the goodness of his heart)


It doesn't seem like anythings gone through that far...I tryed that after you posted it and nothing. So hopefully they're in the manifold. Is it posible for the paper to be stuck and restricting the airflow enough to caught it not to start?

aciddrop2804

wow. I would just have a mechanic do it and make your douche bag "friend" pay for it. this is why I only get help from people who know what they are doing!even the smallest thing can have a profound effect when working on complex things like this.

astrosurfer

I would think that removing the intake from the motor will reveal a lot to you.
Heads only if need be for bent valves.
I'm suspecting the paper is stuck before the valves and restricting airflow.
The motor cannot start without air.
Seeing as you need to do it to remove the heads anyway.

84Z28406

After my friend dropped my engine and caused about $100 in damage, I don't let anyone near my car to "help." Best luck getting her running. I know how frustrating it is.

Toehead

hmm, it's not showing any RPM while cranking?

Pull off the distributor and make sure it's spinning while you crank......

yamban

Hey guys so I finally pushed the car down to our friends shop which is only a 3 minute walk downhill so that was great haha. I left it with him for the day. Just went down to see how things went and he got it going! He mentioned he put a bit of oil down the runners to help remove all the paper towel and burn it off. It doesn't run the best, but when he revved it a bit there was some burn't shards of paper that were still coming out the exhaust. So now he just needs to set the timing and run it a bit to clear everything out I hope.

Also, he pluged in the scan tool and found out the MAF sensor is not working. The previous owner took out the check engine light. That sucks because they are like $300

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

You can buy a used maf for like $85. I had a spare one, but my buddy has it, and he is being a punk about it.

keeslinger31

The maf could also be a factor in the bad running but IDK. Glad you got it running.

yamban

Yeah thats a good idea...I'll post some adds for around my area and keep an eye on these forums. Other than that does anyone know any reputable sites that sell any? And now that the car is running there really shouldn't be a need to tear into the engine? It was running pretty hot but once we let it idle for a bit it dropped to around 110.