I was getting some heavy valve train noise and it was top end for sure. I bought the car like this and it's a 383, forged internals, .550 lift cam, double valve springs, and hardened pushrods, stock rocker arms. Guy said he had roller rocker arms on there before and took them off. I purchased a set of roller rockers and upon taking the stock ones off I find this. Top of the retainers, and only on intake valves. Why is this? And will my rocker arms fix it?

 

looks to me the roller rockers he used rubbed the retainers..what type of rocker arms did you take off got any pics?

 

You should have guide plates or the self centering rockers. i don't recall how exactly the older rockers were located in a stock setup. I think just the slots in the heads kept them in line. Anything even remotely performance oriented had guide plates. Maybe they became necessary with more agressive cams, i don't recall. this looks like production (cheap) heads, with press in studs. I would get the later model self centering rockers or convert to screw in studs and guideplates and hardened pushrods to go with them. Cheaper to get the centering rockers. Oh and of course new retainers. I also can't explain why only the intakes have damage. I would love to hear what others think.

 

It looks like the intake stems stick up less than the exhausts. maybe he used the self centering rockers and there wasn't enough clearance??

 

I have no idea, he didn't say. Here is a pic of the stock rocker arms. It's evident that they were the culprit for this. And I also attached a pic of one of the roller rocker arms I put on tonight.

 

It is possible that the incorrect keepers were used on the intake valves, also with that high lift of cam and those stiff springs you are in danger of pulling the pressed in studs. If the studs are begining to pull up it will change the geometry of the rocker and this can also cause the damage you are seeing. You need to use self guided rockers or you have to use guide plates and that will require screw in studs.

 

Hm. That would make sense. Unfortunately I wouldn't know without pulling the intake. However, the rockers are ordered are self guided 1.5 ratio rockers.

 

The rockers should not be able to move that far off center to do this damage. I agree the retainers might also be wrong.

 

You guys are awesome. We are going to take a stab at it today. I'll definitely make sure we check them out.

 

Those don't look like self-aligning rocker heads, perhaps the issue stems from there.

 

Well turns out the studs may be too short for full alignment. Which may have been the problem from the beginning. What would be my options now?

 

so, who's blind here because to me those look exactly like self aligning rocker arms. the marks on the intake retainers also look like they were made by the dimples that are on factory self aligning rocker arms. i can post a pic of mine to conferm if needed.

 

The tip of the valve is to short in relation to the retainer that is why the damage is there. Pull the heads get them machined for screw in studs and guide plates and put roller rockers on should resolve the issue (use arp studs and plates and hardened push rods )..
Also think about stepped up to 3/8 push rods to reduce flex at rpm

 

Is there coolant in your oil?

Some of the oil looks a bit green in a couple pics.

 

Why is it only on the intake valves? Screw in studs would be nice. But can somebody explain that?

 

No coolant. I'm running what I believe is Kendall oil. I'm running water as my coolant for the time being so no issues there.

 

I bet if you go look at the tips .the exh. tips are alittle taller then the int. Tips
In The picture the retainers look the same so its probably a valve stem issue

 

You are 100% right. The exhaust tips do come out a bit more than the intakes do. The intakes are almost flush with the top of the retainers. Hm. Wonder how that happened. So basically, installing roller rockers at this point won't fix this. I have to pull the heads correct?

 

Did you have a shop build the heads?
And yes pull them
* I have run rollers with out guide plates before but they failed. You could get stock non-self aligning rockers and try them to see if you continue to get the wear

 

The car came like that. I no longer have contact with the guy so I have no idea. There are some machine markings on them so they definitely have been worked on. I didn't even notice wear till after I pulled the stock rockers. I decided to do so cause I was getting a lot of valve train noise. And looking at it now I can see why.

 

Well unfortunately your gonna need the heads over hauled . But on the up side you can upgrade to studs LOL. Just remember you get what you pay for (talking about the new parts)

 

Yikes!! Not questioning or insulting your intelligence in any form, but is there any chance at all you could be wrong? Or me possibly taking another route. The heads were worked on not even 3 months ago.

 

I don't think I'm wrong but it has been known to happen. Being 3months old doesn't matter if something was wrong from the start then its going to fail take a few more pics of the valves. Profile pic would probably be best so everyone can see difference between intake valves And exhaust valves. If there is another way to correct the problem then well try to help you out.

 

It is possible to pull the valve keepers etc. with out pulling the head. there is a fitting that goes in where your sparkplug would be and you connect high pressure air into the cyl. and it will keep the valves closed to do this. The studs can also be pulled and the holes tapped for the screw in studs. All this can be done with the heads still on the motor, you just have to be carefull and take your time and make sure you catch all the chips. I believe the correct keepers will place the top of the valve stem above the retainer like it should be. You really do need the screw in studs for the safety of your engine because it only takes one dropped valve to ruin your day and destroy your engine. We had one of our race engines have this happen at 9000 rpm and the only things we saved off that eng were the headers and the intake manifold.

 

I really do appreciate all the help greatly guys. It's just unfortunate that I have to be on a tight budget with this thing and I'm not looking for any shortcuts or way outs, but more so "what if." Here are pics of the springs (not sure if you this is what you meant), first is exhaust and second is intake.

 

The lower one looks like its rounded off at the edges. Are all of the intake valves like that or just one side

 

Hm didn't really notice that. All intake valves look exactly the same. Some suggested running valve lash caps to bring them up. I really can't afford having the heads pulled, all the machine work and what not. Really not an option at this point. So anything little to minor I could do would be perfect.

 

Try the caps then just remember that they are a temporary fix .

 

Yeah I wouldn't deem them to totally fix the problem. I think someone here mentioned changing the keepers and retainers. I'd probably be better off trying this out and not having to worry about it in the near future.

 

If the tip is worn the caps might be your best bet short term because the tip of the valve is no longer hardened

 

i have run into valves that had two slots in them for the keepers, perhaps this is the case here and the keepers were installed in the top groove. Pull one of the intakes retainers off and have a look.

 

Oh boy. So then ultimately I may be faced with pulling the heads. I'll pull the retainers and have a look. If no other slots are available then i'll use valve lash caps for the meantime. I'll let you guys know how everything goes down. Really appreciate all the input.

 

No problem good luck

 

With a 550 lift cam and the springs needed for that cam you should have screw in studs and guide plates, those press in studs will probably back out if they haven't already. Good luck.


Mark.

 

So guys. As I stated I would try to go with the lash caps, it was said to me that if the valve isn't coming our far enough, that I could risk those coming pushing down on the keepers resulting in the lash caps trying to unlock the vavles. I most certainly don't want that.

 

You'll need to check the tip and make sure you have at least. 250" sticking up from the locks
http://www.jegs.com/c/Cams-Valvetrai...11299/10002/-1

 

That is caused by misalignment of the rocker arms or just mis adjusted lash settings. Or lastly it could be that the wrong set of rocker arms was used in the first place.

 

I know I may be waaaayyy off,
Is this a possibility--
installed hight incorrect because ( using such lift, ) there were no shims installed for the spring seats??

 

Well getting this problem fixed has been extremely slow. Not by choice however.

Anyway, got the heads pulled. Looks like 2.02 valves were put in and what may have happened was they didn't put in long enough valves is all. So I'm going to pull one, measure it and see where I should be.

Normally should the exhaust valve and the intake valve be the same length?