Continued lean operation can be very harmful to an engine. Especially if the lean condition is caused by one or two injectors that are performing poorly. If one or two cylinders are run severely lean, it can cause excessive cylinder tempuratures and destroy valves, pistons and rings.

Have the ECM scanned for codes or do it yourself using the test light method. If you do have it done at Autozone, do not let them sell you any parts. They are not technicians and do not have the skill, knowlege or equipment to properly diagnose your car. If they have the right adapter, they can read codes for you so that you will have that infomation. Post the results here.

Once we know what codes your ECM has stored, we can recommend some action based on that information. You will need to perform a power balance test. As Vader mentioned, and I forgot to mention, you do need to disconnect the IAC during the cylinder shorting power balance test in order to compare rpm drop as you short each cylinder.

Your lean condition is either caused by a failed sensor (which we hope to find through diagnosing codes), poor fuel supply/pressure, excess air (vacuum leak), or any number of failing or clogged injectors. By following a well thought out strategy, we will pinpoint the problem and solve it.

The misfire may simply be a symptom of the lean condition. It may also be caused by an ignition system problem or loss of compression in one or more cylinders. The power balance test will reveal which cylinders are weak and compression test will verify that the cylinders are healthy or damaged.

 

So I took my car in to autozone to have it inspected and they didnt have the right tool to check the codes. So I asked them if they have a SES bulb for my car and they said no. So I guess Im going to go to OReillys tomorrow and get a bulb. Does anyone know if oreillys does free inspections? Was going to go there origionaly but I wasnt sure if they did free inspections or not.

 

I dont know that they do. The problem is, as I feared with Autozone, that theyre not likely to have a 12 pin GM OBDI adapter. These used to be common but since the first OBDII vehicles were built in '95, OBDI has fallen into obscurity. Like most professional techs, I still have the connectors because I diagnose cars professionally and see an OBDI vehicle now and then.

If youre going to own a 3rd gen, I recommend you buy a scanner of your own. One of the best OBDI scan tools was the Snap on MT2500, widely known as the brick because of its shape and its indestructability, they sold new for $2,500. Now you can buy them for $300. Look for one on ebay or ask a local snap on dealer in your area to find you one. Youll need the GM1 adapter and power cable, along with the appropriate software. Make sure the one you buy has these items.

For now I recommend that you use the test light method Vader outlined above. Again, scan codes and post the results here(read codes a few times to be sure you get the numbers right). Once I have the code numbers, I may have you go ahead with the power balance test, depending on what codes you get.

As far as the SES bulb is concerned, its a standard bulb. Autozone probably has them but just doesnt know it because they dont know what bulb it is. I cant remember the number but i think its a 168. You can just pull it and match it up. All the warning lamps use the same bulb.

 

Do you think I could have bad injectors because someone else on here listed almost all of the problems I have (bad mpg, run rich, has engine surge) and someone said that they had the same problems and half the injectors were bad. Do you think it is possible.

 

Highly probable. Im also quite sure that you have a MAF sensor issue. Again, we need to follow a strategy to diagnose your car. I have laid out for you a strategy that will lead us to a solution without costing you needless repairs. I do not advocate replacing parts without first verifying that they are faulty.

 

So, where is all of this stuff at? Behind the panel where all the guages and SES light is at?

 

No. Just under the dash, directly below the steering wheel. The diagram may look confusing. The thing youre looking for is a black 12 pin connector. It may be behind a square plastic cover. Just pop the cover out with your finger nail. Follow Vader's diagram and instructions for reading codes with a test light. Its easier than it may seem. Just focus and if in doubt read the instructions again.

 

This is kind of a wierd question but what do you mean by test light? How would you wire that light in? When jumping terminal A and B what would you use? A paperclip or something?

 

By test light I mean a 12v test light which you can purchase at any auto parts store for around $10. You can jump terminals A & B with a paper clip. You dont need to wire the test light in. It will have a long lead attached to it with an aligator clip at the end. To read codes you will attach the alligator clip to a 12v source either at the positive battery terminal or the fuse panel. You will need to figure a way to attach it. Just make sure it has 12v with the key on. Then you just hold the tip to terminal D with terminals A & B jumped, turn the key on and watch the test light flash.

 

Alright so I found the SES light in my center console and will be plugging it in tomorrow along with running codes. First things first, how do I read codes? Could someone give me an example, like for a code 12 and code 32? I was just wondering if they flash certain way so that I could read it when I run the codes.

 

Actually disregard my last question as I totally missed this right here. So if it were to do three long flashes then 2 short it would be 32? Does it repeat each code 3 times?

 

Turns out the bulb in my center console doesn't belong to the SES light so I will have to go out and get one tomorrow. Yippee!

 

Alright! So I ran the codes on my car and these are the ones that came up:
32-EGR Failure
33-MAF (gm/sec HI)
36-MAF burnoff
42-EST
I pulled the descriptions out of my Chilton manual but I am not 100% sure of what they mean. Could someone describe what each one means and how the problem could be fixed?

 

Sounds like you have an intake manifold problem

 

What makes you say that?

 

Every code you posted has to do with either the vaccum or air going into the engine.

 

Actually, I can't say that any of these codes would be caused by a manifold air leak. The MAF burnoff code can only be caused by the ECM not seeing voltage across the MAF sensor circuit when the burnoff relay is commanded on. The burnoff relay is energized by the ECM for 30 seconds immediately after the key is turned off, after a certain amount of run time.

Whenever I see codes for more than one sensor, the first thing I look at is grounds. A common ground failure between seperate sensor circuits will cause fault codes on all these sensors. I am not saying this is the problem, however it is the first thing I would look at. Grounds are not switched the way power circuits are. All grounds should show continuity to the engine block at all times. You can verify this with a test light.

Aside from a faulty ground circuit, there is a definite possibility of a connection between codes 33 and 32 since they are both MAF codes.

Quick descriptions of the codes are as follows: MAF code 33 is set when the ECM sees higher than expected voltage on the MAF signal circuit. The ECM calculates expected MAF voltage from TPS voltage and RPM signal. A poor MAF sensor ground circuit can cause signal to read high.

EGR code 32 is set when the ECM does not see a change in voltage on the EGR temp sensor circuit when the EGR solenoid is commanded on. This code can be caused by numerous things, the most common being on vacuum signal to EGR valve due to either solnoid falure or connections, the EGR temp sensor, or the EGR valve. Test the EGR valve with a vacuum pump.

Code 42 "EST failure" is set when the ECM does not see varying voltage on EST circuit 423 when EST is switched on, above 400 rpm. It can be caused by several things including the EST bypass, "timing connector" being disconnected, or a short or open in any of the four EST circuits.

The most clear method of pinpointing the cause(s) of these codes is to use a scan tool and follow the diagnostic flowchart for any one of the codes. The solution to this code may point to the cause/solution of the other codes. Otherwise, start testing the individual systems

 

I'm not very car saavy (I think you can tell) but are there any nation wide bussinesses that could run these tests or is there a simple way to run them?

If I am understanding you correctly about the MAF your saying to check the grounds. So should I start by getting a new plug for my MAF sensor (mine is worn almost in half) or is there a different spot I should start?

Another thing, where would I get a vacuum pump at and how is it used?

What is the diagnostic flow chart? How would you go about testing the systems.

Sorry, if you feel like your talking to a 4 year old but I dont know very much about cars living in a house with just my mom (doesnt really matter because my dad doesnt know much either) one thing I do know how to do well is cleaning cars!

 

the vacuum pump can be purchased at most any parts store. To use it you simply connect the line from the pump to the EGR valve and squeeze the handle to apply vacuum to the valve. Some EGR valves have a pressure transducer built in and will not hold vacuum unless they see exhaust pressure. You should still be able to get the diaphram to move the pintle off its seat though. As far as diagnostic flow charts go, the best place to find them and the best way to learn how to use them is the Helm's Publishing Factory Service Manual. they are pricey but well worth it for anyone servicing these cars.

The MAF connector is a common source of trouble. Check the terminals for connection to the sensor. Use a 12v test light to test grounds. You need to have a good wiring diagram to determine which wires are grounds( generally black or tan are grounds but not always). Use the test light with the clamp attached to Batt+ to test for ground, the bulb should light up when touched to a good ground.

 

I havent tested the MAF wires yet but do you know where to get the little harness that plugs into the MAF?

 

You might do a search to see if anyone has found the connector aftermarket. Otherwise try to find one used from the wrecking yard or place a classified on the appropriate forum.

 

Ok, so when I run the test on the EGR if it turns out it isnt working correctly (based on what the chilton manual says) do I take the EGR out and then clean it as recommended? If so, I know it wont be easy or really quick I would like to start there because it's free! I also found a vacuum pump in my garage today.

 

If the diaphram is ruptured, cleaning the valve won't do any good. If the diaphram is okay, test EGR function with the engine idling. The engine should stall when the EGR valve is opened at idle. If the valve opens and there is little response from the engine, then you will want to check the valve for restriction and clean it as needed.

 

Where is the diaphram at and what does it look like? If the diaphram ends up bein busted what would it cost for a new one of those?

 

The diaphram is in the round mushroom looking steel housing on the top of the valve. Look for the vacuum port on the side, towards the top. A new valve will run about $100.

 

Read your Chilton Manual from cover to cover, it will help you with your more basic questions.

 

Good place to start. Alot of what I say will seem like gibberish without at least a basic understanding of engine diagnostics. Hell, even then it may be gibberish. I'm old and senile. LOL

 

After reading most of the culprits you guys mentioned I went to NAPA and ordered my new MAF plug. I had checked the yard earlier to only find 3-wire plugs (mines a 5-wire) and NAPA said I should be getting the plug by Tuesday morning so I should have it installed by then. The Chilton manual doesnt mention anything about replacing the plug so I'm guessing all it is is 1.cut the wires 2.sheath the insulation off of just the ends 3.splice the wires together 4. wrap with electrical tape?

Any objections?

 

The easist and best connections are wire crimps also put a little patrolem jelly or die electric grease after so the explosed wire does not rust. You can use wire twisties also if thats what you have.

 

I will definatly crimp the wires and make sure to rust proof but I dont know about doing the caps (is that what you meant by twisties?) because I think that those would melt so I think I will stick to the tape.

 

Yea that is it those things people generally use in there house wiring outlets.

 

I understand what your saying but like I said I dont know how heat resistant they are. Do you?

 

No I do not have much electrical experince on cars.

 

I was having the same problem about 2 weeks ago have your timing checked to make sure it is set properly that is what was wrong with my 86 Z timing was off only slightly and she "seemed to be missing" HAVE THE TIMING CHECKED!!!!!

 

Do you know where I could get the timing checked at? I'm replecing the MAF plug because it is worn down from rubbing on a belt but having the timing checked would definatly ease my mind. So where can I go to have it checked?

 

any auto mechanic should be able to do it that has a timing light gun they may charge you a small fee but it will give you a better idea of other things to look at if its not the timing!!!!!!

 

do you have any issues with the car not wanting to start???

 

No I dont it starts up just like that (immediatly).

 

hmmm Omaha let me think do i remember any mechanics there that I would trust to not Yank your chain!!!!

 

Thats all anyone wants to do anymore with these cars, its even worse when your a teenager. I'll check a local dealership and then start stopping at some garages, maybe my neighbor has some recommendations.

 

i never really got off base that much so if I were taking my 3rd gen to be looked at I would research for a Chevy Specialist or better yet someone that knows 3rd gen Camaros

 

don't go to a dealership they are the most expensive place to start dealerships are out for blood and money go to another place

 

Got my new MAF plug all hooked up and this is what happened...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-no-start.html

 

 

Thats b/s don't spread crap like that around. If you had a bad experience, fine, but most dealership mechanics are just that - mechanics. Just like all the independent shops. Difference is - they (we) work at a dealer. The labor rate may be high but if your willing to actually pay it, you'll usually get good service. People complain about dealer mechanics, but never wanted to pay for diagnosis in the first place. Everyone wants everything fast, free, and flawless. Thats why the service industry is in the toilet to begin with.

/rant.

 

Well it turns out that when I wired in the MAF sensor I hadnt wired it with the correct technique. I ended up taking it to O'Reillys where one of the guys was like let me take a look and within 30 minutes he was able to get it all wired up correctly! My car now has more power at WOT then at half throttle (before anything past half throttle would flood the engine) and I feel like its getting better gas mileage. So once I got home I cleared all the codes and am left with only one, code 42-EST. Also while I was at O'Reillys the guy confirmed that it was in fact missing, BAD! He also said he noticed arcing between the plug wires and recommended that I get new plugs, wires, cap, and rotor.

Do these sound like the correct steps and how much does this run for a shop to do it (the plugs are a pain and I dont want to risk screwing anything up)?

How do I go about working with the EST?

 

You could probably do everything yourself from up top except changing the spark plugs since there so hard to reach unless your under. Have them change the plugs first before you do any work so you can double check things and see how it runs.

Also they probably do not charge that much ontop of repairs since many places have a single price for a tune up that goes ontop of parts.

What type of misfire do you have?

 

What do you mean what type?

 

Also the dealership emailed back and said that they would charge $450 for labor and another $130 for the parts. I guess I will ask around at small shops before I commit.

 

That is a lot in labor man.