Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 08:22 PM
  #1  
Ozz1967's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 15
From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Long story short, new engine has no provision for mechanical fuel pump...no hole drilled for the pump rod. After burning out 2 inline pumps I decided to install an in-tank pump. Did alot of research on he board and asked alot of questions. All in all I was pretty confident. So I started this morning.at 0800 andit took all of an hour and a half to disassemble the rear suspension and exhaust. Dropped the axle as far as as the brake lines would let me and fo the ecord, I hate the exhaust. Then it took me 2.5 hours to get the old tank out. Eventually I had to bend the filler neck to get it out. The tank kept getting stuck on the panhard mounting post.

I then took out my carbed sender only to find out I actually had the electric pusher pump. I never knew that. Its probaly part of the reason I kept burning out my inline pumps. Anyway, the fuse has never been in the car. It wasn't there 8 years ago when I bought it. Awsome, figured I could use the factory wiring. Nope again, threw a fuse in and I'm only getting 7.5 volts to the connector. So I have to use the relay I installed for my inline pumps. Got the new pump on and sender in. Time to put the tank in. Yeah, right. Nearly 3 hours of fighting with it and I again had to bend the filler neck to get it in, not much but enough to make it go through. Something popped so I think I cracked something but the welds are all still good so I'm not to worried about it..

So, nearly 9 hours and I still have to reassemble the rear end and put the exhaust back on. Yup, dumbest design ever. +1 for you guys who have cut access holes. I will do that this summer.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 08:30 PM
  #2  
PA91Z28's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

I had to replace the one in my 91 Z so I feel your pain. Its one of those things that you want to ask the engineers WTF where you thinking?
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 09:11 PM
  #3  
VincentZ28's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 5
From: San Antonio TX
Car: 1990 G92 IROC Z Miniram
Engine: 388cu 6.4 Liters
Transmission: G-Force T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Gears
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

It takes less than 30 seconds to get the tank out. It only takes a minute to put it back in if you know the trick.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 09:58 PM
  #4  
Ozz1967's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 15
From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Originally Posted by VincentZ28
It takes less than 30 seconds to get the tank out. It only takes a minute to put it back in if you know the trick.
LOL Do tell! I appologize for the vent but I was so mad. I've got my rear springs sitting on the floor, the exhaust out...I've done everything but completely remove the rear end and axle but by how the mounting points for the panhard rod in the way, I don't know if it would actually make any difference.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 10:09 PM
  #5  
Stephen's Avatar
Banned
iTrader: (12)
 
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 12,212
Likes: 13
From: Bertram (outside Austin), TX
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Dana M78 3.27 posi
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Originally Posted by VincentZ28
It takes less than 30 seconds to get the tank out. It only takes a minute to put it back in if you know the trick.
I call total BS on that! More lift 30 MINUTES, on a 2-post lift & with air tools. On the ground? Total PIA!

I've done my car on most of the 3rd gens I've owned and using the "drop the tank" method? It is worth it to pay a shop to do. Just like doing a heater core, "by the book". Worth it at shop rates.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 10:25 PM
  #6  
Ozz1967's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 15
From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Originally Posted by Stephen
I call total BS on that! More lift 30 MINUTES, on a 2-post lift & with air tools. On the ground? Total PIA!

I've done my car on most of the 3rd gens I've owned and using the "drop the tank" method? It is worth it to pay a shop to do. Just like doing a heater core, "by the book". Worth it at shop rates.
I have air tools, only took an hour and a half to get it dismantled. The part that sucks is trying to shoehorn the tank in and out. I can say I've done it, though never again. I will gladly pay the shop if/when I have to do this again.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 11:09 PM
  #7  
8t2 z-chev's Avatar
Supreme Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 115
From: belle fourche,s.d.
Car: '82 z28
Engine: L83 5.7
Transmission: 700r4-1985
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

I had really good luck using a carter rotary vane
electric fuel pump along with a bypass regulator on my
'82(back in 1991-94,before i converted to CFI)
The boost pump used on some of the L69 cars is a
turbine style with no check valve,so it flows fuel good
while inactive.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2010 | 11:10 PM
  #8  
VincentZ28's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 5
From: San Antonio TX
Car: 1990 G92 IROC Z Miniram
Engine: 388cu 6.4 Liters
Transmission: G-Force T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Gears
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

I was refering to once you get to the straps thats all it takes. Its a pull down while twisting 45* then its out. And put it back the same exact way you took it out. I've been doing for a long good while now and it is a bitch.
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2010 | 12:00 AM
  #9  
Ozz1967's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 15
From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Originally Posted by VincentZ28
I was refering to once you get to the straps thats all it takes. Its a pull down while twisting 45* then its out. And put it back the same exact way you took it out. I've been doing for a long good while now and it is a bitch.
LOL...straps outm turn 45* and run into the panhard rod mounts. The way the tank and fillerneck is shaped...just getting upset thinking about how long it took. Had to bend both filler necks to get it to go. I don't know how you guys do it ''easily''.
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2010 | 08:06 AM
  #10  
SSC's Avatar
SSC
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,974
Likes: 0
From: Pueblo Co
Car: 1989 C4
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 307
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

I just did one on my sister in laws 91 rs it's been a good 6 years since the last one I did at the shop. I dont have access to a lift anymore but still have all my tools. It took a good 3.5 hours to swap the pump. Its just not a fun job.
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2010 | 09:15 AM
  #11  
PA91Z28's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

I do not understand why they could not have used a rubber connector on the filler hose like a lot of cars have. Makes it easier to take in and out. And or even better make it so you could get to the fuel pump from the inside of the trunk area.
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2010 | 11:30 PM
  #12  
Ozz1967's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,795
Likes: 15
From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Originally Posted by PA91Z28
I do not understand why they could not have used a rubber connector on the filler hose like a lot of cars have. Makes it easier to take in and out. And or even better make it so you could get to the fuel pump from the inside of the trunk area.
I don't know why they didn't put a patch panel in the trunk under the carpet. It never gets wet up under there, so a simple door with hinges that you just pull open. Doesn't even need a lock because it's normal position is closed. Only way to open it would be to pull the carpet and pull up. The tank is sealed, so worries about fumes or whatever are minimal unless you have a crappy tank. I'm going to seriously consider putting something in so I can access it from the top instead of spending two days on my back in 30* weather in the rain/snow/sleet we've been getting here in Utah...just to swap a pump.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2010 | 01:21 AM
  #13  
DENN_SHAH's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 1
From: houston
Car: 83 POS monte carlo 2015 chevy P/U
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi 5.3
Transmission: 700r4 6L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.42 too high
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

over the years i've replaced a few gas tanks and put fuel pumps in a number of thirdgens.
some have went in quick and easy with no problems.
others fought me all the way.
from about 1.5 hours, to an all day job.
the worst one i had to unbolt the brake hose and the upper arms to get the rear end to drop down farther to get the tank out and it was still a fight.
of course that was a few days after i did an easy thirdgen fuel pump and i was feeling cocky and told the customer at 9:00 AM it would be done by noon. i got it finished around 6:30 that night.
looking back, it would have went faster if i had just pulled the rear end completely out.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2010 | 08:08 AM
  #14  
rgarcia63's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,133
Likes: 4
From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Re: In-tank fuel pump...dumbest design ever!!

Dumb design? from an access point of view, yes. But, it definitely solved vapor lock issues of mechanical pumps and I don't really care for external electric pumps.
I now have both rubber connector & access door.
I installed them in 2004 when I discovered crud in the tank (clogged system/no start) from moisture getting in thru solder cracks around the tank & filler neck.
Reason for Rubber Connector; wasn't sure if PO, or shop, or stress from the tight fit caused the solder to crack.
Reason for access door; pump failure if it happened once it can happen again.
One year later the new Holley high flow pump when out, less than 30 minutes later I was up an running with a used '85 pump/sender unit, which is still running great.
Tools? Because I used a Swagelok tube coupling for the supply line; open end 9/16" & 1/2" otherwise all I needed was a flat blade screw driver and a 10mm.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Glowsock
Tech / General Engine
13
Jul 24, 2025 03:15 PM
92camaroJoe
TBI
32
Jul 29, 2023 07:57 PM
beachrodder
Tech / General Engine
7
Aug 25, 2015 08:05 AM
justin57
TBI
30
Aug 20, 2015 07:05 PM
92camaroJoe
Tech / General Engine
6
Aug 13, 2015 06:07 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 AM.