Hey, I know in my sig it says I want to do a stroker. But upon discussion with some people, I'm considering a bored 350. I forget the performance and streetability differences between the two. What I'm looking for is something that will run 12s all day long then go home at the end of the day. I'm not going to go insane with it as its going to be a street car. This is more of a corner carver than a straightline machine.

As I've said elsewhere, it sounds like something in the neighborhood of 450 HP will get the job done. I know that figure is easily gained via either the stroker or the bored 350. Since the car is a keeper, I'm gonna say price is no object, just a matter of what I have in the bank to work with. It sounds like in theory, a 355 is cheaper. Less machining and you can keep a whole host of factory internals. I'm not sure how much you would need to build up the top end vs the 383 but my guess is you would need to do more. The 383 you'd have to machine the block more, and need a whole new rotating assembly along with the top end. As mentioned before, I forget which of the two would be more streetable. If the cost to build a 355 is cheaper than a 383 then I'll go that route. If its close I'll go by which one is more streetable.

Car will be setup with a rebuilt and upgraded suspension and brakes, a T56, and the factory ten bolt 3.73 gear set with moser axles.

 

383 IS a 350, just bored/stroked different with different crank/rods to get more cubes.

355 just means it's been bored to remove scratches and such from the cylinder walls. Anyone that bores a motor just to get higher cubes is an idiot - compresion and everything stay the same because you also have to change piston/ring sizes to accomodate the new slightly larger bore. The only thing a 355 gives you is a 350 that had cylinder wall wear that had to be removed by boring.

I'd think cost wise there'd be no difference other than the fact that you need a different crank/rods for the 383 build, but machining should be close to the same.

 

A 350 is a stroked 327. A 327 is a stroked 302 so don't go saying a 383 is a 350/355.

Both the 355 and 383 have a .030" overbore. The 383 uses the stroke of a 400 crank.

To reach the goals you're setting, go with a 383. It would be even easier if you make a 406 or 434.

 

OK - but a 383 is made from a 350 block (which I guess is a 327 block) - the difference is in the boring/stroking. I was just trying to state that 'making' a 355 is a waste - if a 350 needs bored to clear out cylinder wall issues, fine. But no one ever gained anything from boring a 350 to a 355 that had nothing wrong with it.

 

Guessed wrong
The facts
355 requires new pistons
A 450Hp 355 should have better than the stock crank and rods , especially old used parts
so for a good reliable 355 you need a whole new rotating assembly exactly the same as you do for a 383

383 vs 355 kits are within $50 of each other
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-92200/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-92000/

Machining costs are identical EXCEPT for maybe 1 hours extra labor to clearance the bottom of block for stroker crank

383 will make more Hp easier or more Hp at lower revs than 355 so better long term investment
If doing a full rebuild
there is no justification for building a 350 with the availability of cheap , quality 383 kits these days

 

It could be argued that there is no justification for building a 383 with the availability of cheap, quality LS1's these days...

 

That is true...but the excess work involved to make it work with the earlier cars made me go the other way to retain the carb set up. As for changing an LS1 to a carb and ditching the computer....you still have the magnetos and etc. It was too much electrical work for my taste. I'm a fan of KISS, cubes+carb=power. Well you get the idea. I probably would have stroked the LS1 if I went that way anyway.

As for the 383 vs 355 argument, I know the 383 is not a 350. And I know the 355 is a bored 350. I was more interested in the costs, and performance differences of the two so I could make a more informed decision on what to do. Thanks for pointing out the fact that the kits are not worth haggling over. For the 50 bucks I would have went with the 383. If the 383 is the better street motor I'll go that route.

Now, anyone have an idea for a setup? I'd like to have an idea of what a combined setup would cost. I'm betting 3500 easy. I was thinking Vortec heads as they're cheap and readily available; also can handle the power. But I don't want anything too crazy due to the street nature. I'd put the Q jet back on it if I could if I can get it working right, maybe the factory HEI too for the time being. Also for a wild card. What would need to be done to have it run on E85? Or any other pump gas. But if E85 becomes the fuel of choice....would like to be able to use it.

 

IF all you will ever want to do is somewhere in the 12's, you dont "need" a 383 to do that.

I've seen many many heads/cam intake setups on stock bottom end 350's run low 12's all day long and some get into the 11's and still be streetable enough to run around anywhere you want to go. A 383 with new rotator is a build i'd use to go 11's and nothing less. To get deeper into the 11's you need more head/cam and on a 355 you start losing valuable torque. The 383 stroker makes up for that while giving good top end with the larger heads/cam. 383's need more cam/heads/better flowing intakes to get full use of the cubes.

Now there is a good bit of difference between a 12.90 and a 12.10...assuming suspension is pretty good. A bolt on L98 with good suspension and some drag wheels can clock off a 12.90 at 104 in good air. But to go 12.10, you'll need 190cc heads and 224-230 deg cam... almost 80-100hp difference there. Each will drive just fine when tuned, but one is alot more aggressive than the other.

You can go iron vortecs, but clean them up abit, install new springs suitable for the cam you will run, and then install screw in rocker studs, get the valveguides cut down to handle lift and possibly the spring pockets machined out. OR you can order the upgraded vortec heads from scoggin dickey already modified for a good price. I think they are 430 a piece complete. BUT your not far away from a decent set of aluminums for that price.
At the very least, a freshened up vortec head out the junkyard with new springs and machined to handle more lift is needed for 12 second power.

AFter that a cam like the LT4 hotcam is cheap upgrade but if I was you, i'd go custom grind. Keep it hydraulic roller if you use a good roller block. Anything between 212 and 230 deg will get you in the 12's, just depends on how deep you want to go.

 

Orr, I'm good with 12 flat as the best ET for this car. As I said, this is not an all out drag car. If I had to pick a time set, I'd prefer mid 12s with low 12s on a perfect run. So lets say 12.5 -12.3 range. If I can build a 350 that can run that and be streetable then that is another option. And it was one I considered but thought the 383 would be a better bet. Since I'd rather get this done sooner rather than later the knowledge that a 350 with a stock bottom end holding up running mid 12s is good and obviously cheaper.

I got a Summit catalog in the mail today and was just flipping through it. Turns out Summit sells (y'all probably know this already) a 383 block, machined, with a 1pc rms and pipe and freeze plugs. 760 shipped to my door. That SCAT stroker kit brings the price to 1300, heads bring it to 2100 if I go the scoogin dickey route, then the misc stuff brings it in around 3K, and with the right cam obviously I can easily do whatever I want to do with that. Of course that is very rough estimation on my part. Shipping and etc costs come in as well. That is for the 383.

So if I'm running 12.5s or a couple ticks less, then a 350 is back in the fold. I'd be ordering parts for the build right now if I wasn't bailing out the family's fleet repairs....but thats besides the point. I'm thinking the 350 might come in at least 500 bucks cheaper. Assuming I find a good shortblock with few needs.

 

Some of us old timers still like the idea of only having one coil

 

I recently ran across the 355 vs 383 issue. As mentioned above, I had to replace the rotating assembly anyways, so I should have gone 383, only difference would have been the block clearance and the crank. The only reason I went 355 was because I have some 57 cc AFR heads which would be REALLY hard to run on a 383 due to compression (I was looking at about 12:1 static CR), and because I wasn't sure how much more difficult it would be for a 383 to pass California pass.

My vote is go 383, a well built Q-jet should be efficient on gas with a light foot AND give you the performance you need.

 

I am not too familar with the Q-jet and its capabilities but if it will support a 383, that will be the easiest way to get low 12's. A low 12 second 350-355 is easy enough as it is tho.

If you replace the crank and rods, it makes sense to go 383.... few hundred more in block clearancing is all there is really..may not even be few hundred..heck you could do that yourself before you take the block to the machine shop for clean up and re-bore!!

With 383's like said above, flat top pistons and that stroke will give 11 to 1 comp with 64cc heads...that will require aluminum to run best and a medium sized cam for pump gas ability unless you run E85. Medium duration cam and 383 with great heads/intake up top is 11 second capable in low-mid weight thirdgens.

The summit 383 aint a bad place to start...just have it checked out to verify machine work is correct.

 

Being a die hard 350 fan Im going to say 383, 383, 383.

Cost?

Couple hundred $ difference avg, at least 40 lbs torque +- across the board you will be addicted to the difference in tq and not want a 350 again. Just my opinoin.

Honestly, I regret building a 350 this time around and it certainly wasnt a cheap build. Now that Im not happy with it no funds to stroke..you can only throw so much cam compression at it etc then you realize you shoulda just gone bigger in the first place.

350 can only make so much tq, 383, 406, on and on.

 

Exact same combo as my 383
12.1:1 CR
8.69 DCR with GM 847 cam

410 RWHP with 750DP Holley on 91

 

your machine shop will tell you if you need to bore and become a 355. if you want to build for performance then go for the 383

 

I love my screaming 355 beasty. I would never trade it for a 383. A 377 or a 406 maybe, but only if I and my machinist builds it. But since my 355 will last the rest of my life, I probably won't ever replace it.

 

And if you have to bore , you may as well build a 383.
The old 350 crank is prob going to need a grind to go into the 355 so that grinding cost offsets against the stroker crank cost ( as low as $170 )

 

All indications are I'll say nice idea but I'm sticking with the 383. Chances are I'll start with a bare block no matter what. Just gotta somehow start piecing the thing together. Since it seems like the Q jet and factory HEI can handle it I'll stick with those for the time being...(I'm gonna need serious help to get the Q jet right though). Sounds like after that I just need to get a rotating assembly, heads, intake, headers, all associated parts, accessories. I'm hoping to be able to use the factory third gen radiator. Guessing I can use a factory oil pan too since its a SBC. Catch will be the fact that I'll need to get it balanced. Unless there is a balancer out there for such a project. I'll bring it up with some local builders to see what they can do for me. The Shoestring Stroker project that Superchevy did as a feature might be of help too.

Actually, I forgot, there could be clearance problems with the stock oil pan and a stroker motor.

 

If money isn't an object then go with the 383. You will get more power out of a similar setup. One of the differences about building a 383 is the additional machining done to "clearence" the crankshaft from the engine block.

You can use your oil pan. Definately look for a 4 bolt main block, unless you already have something you are using. Might as well get a whole rotating assembly from somewhere like eagle or scat. Then you just get or use a matched flywheel and balancer.

 

Is there a balancer out there that matches up to an LT1 6 speed flywheel? I'm sure there is considering the LT1 strokers. The other thing is, most 4 bolts I know of are two piece, the LT1 flywheel only mates to a 1 pc RMS so it will have to be a later block. Unless I shell out for the flywheel that mates a LT1 T56 to the 2 pc RMS block.

 

Buy the machined Summit block that has everything you want
4 bolt main , 1 pce RMS and roller cam
or get a rebuilder 96 -00 Vortec truck block (50% chance of being 4 bolt )

Balancer type is related to rotating assembly balance / not flywheel .
ALL SBC have a neutral balancer EXCEPT 400 ci

Have to watch out though ; because some cheaper stroker kits use a 400 crank casting which requires 400 style balancer( ext balance ) and ext balance 400 flywheel

 

Q jets are pretty versatile, and in the right hands an awesome carburetor.

Google DaVinci Carbs in Texas, one of the best out there. He can set it up or a Holley for that matter and be pretty much dead nuts on the first time around.

If I knew more about them I wouldnt hesitate to run one but never fooled with them much.

 

I have had both and of course the 383 made a bunch more Tq and just a bit more HP truth be known I would focus more on the HEAD AND CAM selection..
Your motor is like your relationship, if you don't have good head it just wont work to its
potential..

 

I have had both and of course the 383 made a bunch more Tq and just a bit more HP truth be known I would focus more on the HEAD AND CAM selection..
Your motor is like your relationship, if you don't have good head it just wont work to its
potential..

 

So if I get a 383 crank that is not a 400 crank casting, I can use the neutral 350 balancer off any SBC to a certain point? Sorry but I've done stock rebuilds, this will be my first custom one. Would rather get it right the first time, if I build it myself. If I have a builder do it then it won't matter, but I'm looking at doing it myself. I'm intent on putting that T56 I have in, so a 400 Flywheel is not an option. Gotta be the LT1 flywheel, and it might be a stock LT1 clutch and flywheel for the time being til I work out all the bugs. No point in frying a 400 dollar clutch and 400 dollar flywheel while working out the bugs and getting used to it.

And yes, if I go forward and do it myself I'll probably start with the summit block and have its machining verified. I'm all for getting the right heads and cam for the setup to make it right.

 

You can skip all the worry and get one of these:

http://www.theengineshop.com/product...5---460hp.html

 

Correct
Use a 1 pce RMS block , have it balanced to stock 1 pce specs and at anytime in the future you can walk into any shop and get a flywheel off the shelf


It might because there are cases were shops have balanced 1 pce RMS assemblies
( Neutral front / Ext balance at rear only ) as 2 pce Int balance so a custom flywheel is needed

 

The 1 piece rear main seal block will also be a factory roller block, allowing you to use a hyd roller cam without the cost of retro lifters. This is a great advantage over flat tappet.

 

Still think a 383 is abit overkill for this build But if you have to build a new motor, the price isnt much different so it makes sense to go more inches while you can.

 

i used a scat internal balance 383 crank and got it for like 220 bucks, You can re use your balancer if it's in good shape.Scat 3/8" capscrew rods are cheap and very high quality as well. GET THE ASSEMBLY BALANCED! You won't regret it.
I used Wiseco pistons to keep the C.R. down to 9.5. that should theoretically let me run any gas available. I have seen guys on here running 11:1 with 93 octane gas and vortec heads, so i may have gone a bit conservative on compression. Try to keep your quench at .040 for further detonation reduction if you do decide to run flat top pistons. I think mine were a 6cc dish. I have had absolutely no indication of detonation with 34* initial timing and 92 octane, but i haven't even seated the rings yet. If you can afford aluminum heads get them. Personally, I think you could go as large as 220 cc without noticing torque loss on a 383. I went with the Pro Topline (now RHS) vortec 170cc castings and they are very nice out of the box for an amazing price. Remember, vortec heads need a different intake, I lke it because there are less bolts.
Keep us posted on what you decide.

 

Nothing like a lil overkill , it just makes it more fun. Anyway, its pretty much gonna be a new motor, I'm starting with at least a 350 block in the first place.

Anyway, I found an older article among my notes from school. Its on the older side and part numbers might not be exact anymore, but this is the gist of it. Prices are what they are now from summit. Lets say I do keep the GM HEI dizzy and L69 QJet. I'll probably at least use a 350 water pump unless they're the same. Same goes for the rest of the L69 parts. Bear with me as I'm just putting this out. I'd love to just build it in my garage as I'm sure you all know how it feels to put something together and have it work.

1pc RMS block from JY- $100
Scat crank PN 910526- $188
Scat Comp 5.7 I beam rods PN 25700716- $315
SRP Forged Pistons PN 139628- $508
TFS 215cc AL head. PN TFS-32400006- $1,350
Comp XR282HR cam PN 08-432-8- $289
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap PN EDL-7501- $220

They used Hedman 1 3/4 headers But I'll probably use either these HED-68470 or the long tube
cousin to it at $170 and $176 respectively.

They also used a Demon 750 mech secondary carb PN 1402010 (JEGS) $460. 500Ft lbs Torque 486HP in its original configuration with the Demon and 1 3/4 headers. I'll probably come in under that with the more restrictive headers and Q Jet and Stock HEI.

If its familiar, it was a Car Craft article. Might use different heads, and due to head difference maybe a different cam. I know gaskets, pushrods, rockers etc. are not on here, but these were the major parts listed. But what do you guys think.

PS, the crank they listed was a 3.48 crank. Not sure if its a typo or if the pistons they used allowed them not to have to use a 3.75 crank.

 

pretty good setup. It will be pretty driveable and fun to play with and get you bottom 12's easily with a chance at high 11's if the intake/carb can support it. Those heads are nice heads and the cam is alittle small for the heads but will work. I'd run 1.6 or 1.65 rockers to get the lift up.

I think i've seen a guy running that cam on here in a 350-355 motor and made good power with it. I cant recall the exact setup tho.

 

3.48" stroke would still be a 350 class motor. Might have been a typo. Also, 6" rods cost pretty much the same as 5.7". While they might require a smidge more clearance, they will gain you a few rpm on the top end as well.

 

you could save a little on the boring part and make yourself a 377

 

Thats the nice thing about it. It leaves some on the table if I want to go faster. I'd say the motor is a good base starting point if I retain some of the factory L69 pieces for now. I've been told I can use 305 accessories on a 350 and bigger. That way the motor gets built, and if I want to go lower I can just swap the cam, carb or something. Chances are I'll enjoy it too much to want to mess with it.

Sleeper, more rpms would be nice, the only way I can see getting the clearance is the headgasket, or a different set of heads. I'd go with the headgasket.

 

6" rods allow for lighter pistons and that means you can turn more rpms with less stress on the rod bolts. A proper stroker rod may clear regular base circle cams but if in doubt, get a custom grind on a smaller base circle.

I ran about a 1" base circle on my 383 and 401 motors with 6" rods. 383 had Eagle H-beams with ARP 8470 bolts while the 401 uses Callies Compstar H-beams with ARP 2000 bolts. Decent sized cams to boot... .383" lobe lift on the 383, and .352 on the 401. Plenty of rod to cam clearance.

If you want more rpm, get a bigger cam to go with those 215 heads and open up the intake manifold, but now your getting over your goals and shooting for 11's instead of low 12's

 

Yea it is getting out of hand if I start going beyond what I listed. I believe the peak was at 6200 or so on that dyno test anyway. The L69 redline was 6200. Doesn't need to rev to the stratosphere. If I wanted to do that I would have gotten something that could have done so. I might just stick with what I listed and get the 3.75 crank instead of the one listed for obvious reasons. Like I said. I don't mind leaving some on the table. I'd like to start getting parts starting next month for the car in general. A professor of mine said the 10 bolt is not worth beefing up. Said just stick with the Moser axle upgrade and run the hell out of it. By the time it blows up I'll have a spare ready to go. I'm gonna try to get all the parts to put the rear back together by the end of April. Still gonna try for a roller by the end of the year. Maybe fit the trans to see what cutting I need to do. Then worry about the motor. But if I have a blueprint for the motor maybe I can start getting parts for it.