Consequences of advanced timing.
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From: Texas
Car: 1987 Camaro Iroc Z28
Engine: 350 S/B
Transmission: 700 R4
Axle/Gears: 2.43 Gear Ratio
Consequences of advanced timing.
I know that base timing is set at 0. So with a completely stock engine running 6 degrees advanced timing, what could this possibly do to your engine? Would it run hotter? Maybe stutter and hesitate a little bit? Just kinda curious as to what yall think or might have experienced.
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Car: 1989 IROC-Z Camaro 'Vert.
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Re: Consequences of advanced timing.
What do you mean, base timing set at 0?
AFAIK the static timing on these engines was anywhere from 6-10 degrees advance? I have forgotten what the total advance was, I just know my crate motor calls for 32 degrees of total.
AFAIK the static timing on these engines was anywhere from 6-10 degrees advance? I have forgotten what the total advance was, I just know my crate motor calls for 32 degrees of total.
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Re: Consequences of advanced timing.
Base timing is never zero.
In theory, the correct engine timing will create the highest cylinder pressure from the burnt fuel at something like 20* ATDC. How long it takes the fuel to burn depends on a lot of factors so timing that works well on one engine may not work on another.
Because it takes time for the fuel to fully burn, the ignition needs to ignite the fuel Before TDC (BTDC). The faster the engine spins, the more advanced the timing needs to be. The base timing itself is usually dictated by the cam grind. For a typical factory car, base timing is normally in the 4-10* BTDC range.
As rpm increases, mechanical advances increases the timing until it reaches a preset limit usually in the 32-38* range. Factory settings are very slow and for best performance, the engine should be at full advance by 3000 rpm. Vacuum advance changes the timing again depending on engine load.
With modern computer controlled timing systems, the computer constantly changes the timing to provide the best performance or economy depending on the engine demand. Engines with a crank and cam sensor have the distributor synced with a scan tool and there's nothing else to adjust.
Using an older system, bumping up the base timing also increases the total timing so while low end power may improve, top end power may suffer. Distributor recurve kits are available to fine tune the timing curve.
If the timing is really out of adjustment, the fuel won't burn at the proper time in relation to the piston. If it's ignited too early, it pushes on the piston as it's still trying to move up the cylinder. If it's ignited too late, the piston is already moving down the cylinder as the fuel runs out of force.
Incorrect ignition timing can produce pinging or knocking while under load. This can cause a lot of damage to the pistons, rings, head gaskets etc. Engine with knock sensors when they detect piston knocking due to bad fuel etc, the ECM will automatically retard the timing until the knock goes away however this also reduces power.
In theory, the correct engine timing will create the highest cylinder pressure from the burnt fuel at something like 20* ATDC. How long it takes the fuel to burn depends on a lot of factors so timing that works well on one engine may not work on another.
Because it takes time for the fuel to fully burn, the ignition needs to ignite the fuel Before TDC (BTDC). The faster the engine spins, the more advanced the timing needs to be. The base timing itself is usually dictated by the cam grind. For a typical factory car, base timing is normally in the 4-10* BTDC range.
As rpm increases, mechanical advances increases the timing until it reaches a preset limit usually in the 32-38* range. Factory settings are very slow and for best performance, the engine should be at full advance by 3000 rpm. Vacuum advance changes the timing again depending on engine load.
With modern computer controlled timing systems, the computer constantly changes the timing to provide the best performance or economy depending on the engine demand. Engines with a crank and cam sensor have the distributor synced with a scan tool and there's nothing else to adjust.
Using an older system, bumping up the base timing also increases the total timing so while low end power may improve, top end power may suffer. Distributor recurve kits are available to fine tune the timing curve.
If the timing is really out of adjustment, the fuel won't burn at the proper time in relation to the piston. If it's ignited too early, it pushes on the piston as it's still trying to move up the cylinder. If it's ignited too late, the piston is already moving down the cylinder as the fuel runs out of force.
Incorrect ignition timing can produce pinging or knocking while under load. This can cause a lot of damage to the pistons, rings, head gaskets etc. Engine with knock sensors when they detect piston knocking due to bad fuel etc, the ECM will automatically retard the timing until the knock goes away however this also reduces power.
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Well, around here we call what you set the timing to with the EST disconnected the "base" timing, so, yes, "base" timing can be zero. It was for the LG4's, and as I understand, the LO3's.
Of course, the computer takes it from there and adds timing according to the tables; unless the knock sensor senses pre-ignition and pulls advance.
The typical consequence of advancing the timing a little from the factory is better throttle response. Advance it too much and the poor knock sensor is going to go nuts. If the EGR system isn't working properly, anything above factory will cause problems.
Try 2 degrees, drive it for a few days and see how it does. If it seems to run better, try another couple of degrees. Get more than 6 above zero, though, and you'll probably start to hurt performance.
Of course, the computer takes it from there and adds timing according to the tables; unless the knock sensor senses pre-ignition and pulls advance.
The typical consequence of advancing the timing a little from the factory is better throttle response. Advance it too much and the poor knock sensor is going to go nuts. If the EGR system isn't working properly, anything above factory will cause problems.
Try 2 degrees, drive it for a few days and see how it does. If it seems to run better, try another couple of degrees. Get more than 6 above zero, though, and you'll probably start to hurt performance.
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From: Hampton, Virginia
Car: 87 Camaro Z-28
Engine: 305 LG4 w/ E4ME carb
Transmission: 700R4
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Re: Consequences of advanced timing.
IIRC timing on my LG4 is set to 4 degrees btdc instead of the zer0 degrees btdc factory setting (might be set to 6 btdc). Anyway, after setting timing back to 4 btdc my lg4 responded better but rpms at 55-60 have been a few hundred higher. It's time for longer road trips so tomorrow I'll try zer0 degrees again and then post if rpms dropped back down when cruising at 55-60 mph. I"m not looking forward to the drop in response that zer0 will cause!
Re: Consequences of advanced timing.
IIRC timing on my LG4 is set to 4 degrees btdc instead of the zer0 degrees btdc factory setting (might be set to 6 btdc). Anyway, after setting timing back to 4 btdc my lg4 responded better but rpms at 55-60 have been a few hundred higher. It's time for longer road trips so tomorrow I'll try zer0 degrees again and then post if rpms dropped back down when cruising at 55-60 mph. I"m not looking forward to the drop in response that zer0 will cause!
you do understand what is being measured by a tach, don't you?
You also understand the relationship of transmission and rear end gearing (and tire size) and their affect on ENGINE rpm's don't you?
And you realize that timing has no affect on any of that.
Now you migt not be going into OD and that would be a different issue
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Re: Consequences of advanced timing.
I installed this cam as per factory instructions. Was that my best course of action? My timing is also at the factory setting
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Hampton, Virginia
Car: 87 Camaro Z-28
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