So in my young and dumb infinite wisdom I put a much to large CAM into my car.... now after people told me I would have issues and after two years of me saying NO NO NO.... guess what... YEP

Destroyed my valve retainers... so I currently have an Edelbrock Performer RPM Roller Cam, I need some good advice and what a sorry sorry fool would need, that will still work with stock chevy 350 heads....(# 14102193).

This is going to be a daily get to school and back driver, not a race car, more a cruiser, kids back and forth to school and daycare.

So some real serious (ole man, dad) needs to go into this, CAM is the cheapest way to get the job done, so whats the best one for what I need. I dont want to be stock if I can avoid it, but if need be so be it.

 

Guessing you didn't check clearances when you chose your monster cam, with it's 539/548 lift. From all accounts I have read here and my own experience, you are pushing your luck with stock heads + positive seals with lifts over about 480-ish.

You need to mock up a pair of valves, and measure clearance between the top of the seal and the bottom of the retainer. Subtract say 50 for safety, and that will be the max lift of cam you can use. Exceed it, and your retainers will smack the seals around as you have discovered. Really exceed it, and the retainers will destroy the seal and punch into the valve guide boss with resulting mayhem - bent pushrods, broken rocker studs, wiped cams etc.

In fact, as I have discovered myself, it's best to measure ALL valves and make sure one isn't lower than the others for whatever reason.

To increase retainer to seal/valve guide clearance, you need to either machine the guide boss down, or use +50 valve locks.

Also pay attention to the spring installed height, for stock type heads/springs its usually 1.7". Then make sure the spring can compress to whatever height the cam lift is, plus at least a 100-ish safety margin, before the it binds solid. Thats goes for both the spring coil(s), and any damper coil.

 

Yeah I didnt know how important it was back then, and i ran it for a full year with no issues, but I put a th350 behind it, and started stomping on it a lot. So rather than do all the head work, spring, and such I am going with a smaller cam, I just want to make sure my next choice is the right one.

i was thinking Edelbrock Performer to match the intake and carb, but I dont know if thats to big.

Honestly I have no idea when it comes to cams, its a good time to learn, but you are talking to a noob when it comes to cams..... any extra explanation will help. Thanks for your in put already.

 

How did it run? Did it perform ok for street use, or was it a dog below about 3000 rpm? Did you change springs then, or does it still have the stockers on (no doubt shot by now)?

Parts selection seems to be: decide what you're doing with the car and be honest! This will determine the rpm range, and you pick heads, cam, valvetrain etc accordingly. Eg - daily driver - you want low end grunt + happy idle + responsive - will spend most of its time under 3500 with occasional wind-outs to maybe 5k. So search for a cam with an rpm range of 1000-5000 rpm - stock heads are meant to flow in this range.

If you're racing, you want more top end for more hp, so you shift the rpm range up with a higher duration cam, large volume higher flowing heads, bigger exhaust, higher stall converter, tougher valvetrain etc. This will be at the expense of low rpm operation.

Do a lot lot lot of searching around these forums, u will learn a lot, I know I sure have. Guys seem to rag on the Performer cams as outdated, though that may just be the flat tappet variety. Comp Xtreme Energy or Lunati Voodoo seem to get a good rap.

If you don't want to do any head work - then you'll need to find the max lift your setup will allow, and work with that.

 

this will be a car not going over 35-45 MPH Monday - Friday so the first thing you listed will be right up my alley, I mean there will be a bit of High way from time to time, but I am putting the 700r4 back in to take off some of the RPM burden. I haven't taken anything off the heads yet about to pull the springs here today at least thats the plan.

I know i need the retainers, not sure about springs, now the motor is a re manufactured so I have no idea what the heads have on them but I am going to guess stock springs.

So under 3500 RPM, no racing for this car, I am way past done with that for now...

 

So are you talking cam swap because of performance issues, or are you just wanting to fix your damaged valve seals as outlined in your other thread? Also - in what way were the retainers damaged? If you've managed to smack them into the guide bosses enough to hurt them, I should imagine other parts may be damaged too.

 

I don't think you would have to go all the way back to stock, just to fix the interference issue.
If you're looking for a modest lift in a HR cam, look at Comp's "Xtreme 4x4" line: http://www.compperformancegroupstore...ode=RLERCAM4X4

 

The damage was to Valve seals... broke the rings and destroyed the rubber. And that is from the aggressive lift. Sorry kind of new to cam lingo. I just wish to prevent this from happening again. I think I am going to go with the edelbrock performer, it will match the intake and carb. Now its just to get everything else with it.

I am not seeking to go back to stock, just something that my stock heads could handle. Either way I have to redo the springs and seals. I have no idea how much damage I caused to the springs, I mean they look fine now but who knows in 6 months. I want to do this once and right.

I have about $1000.00 to play with, so cam swap and head up grade is going to be the best bet for now.

So here is what I am getting from Summit

EDL-2208 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2208/
EDL-5703 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ED...s/?prefilter=1
FEL-SS72527 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-SS72527/

I think that will put me where I need to be...

 

I was just thinking, can i just rebuild the heads to handle the Performer RPM i have in there now or would new heads be best. I know I would need springs rated for the the cam, but is this do able with stock heads.....??

 

With a budget of $1000, I'd get aftermarket heads, and even after having them set up for your big cam, you'd still have money left over. Plus you'd be up at least 50 horses over your current heads.
Yes, you could just get your current heads machined to accept the lift, but no matter what you have done to them, they'll never equal any of the aftermarket heads.
In your budget, you might consider Brodix IK180, Edelbrock E-Street, and Patriot for aluminum heads, or any of the iron 180 cc heads, like RHS and EQ.

 

Get yourself these vortec heads! Will handle your lift and increase power. Will have to get a vortec intake too, but will still be under $1000.

http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...nter/sd8060ra2

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY...Q5fAccessories

 

If the seal interference is indeed the only problem that the high lift is causing, you may be able fix it on the cheap. The positive seals take up about 170 of the available guide boss to retainer clearance. If you leave them out, you get that back for the cam lift.

If you leave them out, you will need to use the old seal system of the valve stem o-ring plus oil shedder. Not nearly as good, you may smoke a bit and get a puff on start-up.

I've got the old rubbish 624 heads, and a 480 max lift cam. Measured all my boss to retainer clearances, came up with a spread of 605-725. I really didn't want to put any further money machining these old heads, so to cheap out I just used different seals on different valves, whatever fit best. Some have just the o-ring, others umbrella, other positive seals. Works fine so far.

You will need to measure to find out what situation you are in.

If you go this route - definitely replace those springs with whatever the cam mfg recommended - as they have to come off for the seals anyway. Just cause they look fine doesn't mean they're holding proper pressure anymore.

 

Ok so I am now thinking of doing it this way....vortex

heads --> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-151124/

Intake --> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-226018/d

I was hoping that with the right springs I could just redo these heads I have here, but if that is not the case I don't want to drop $1200 on aluminum heads, I don't have it right now, have to do this for under $1000.

I'm just taking everyone's advice and trying to work something out that will best work for me.

I dont even know what it would cost to get them machined. Let alone anywhere to go around here, I don't like trusting other people to do my work for me. No mechanic has ever touched this car well aside from making sure my valve lash was correct, and guess what, he said it was and it wasn't. I don't like paying someone to do nothing or to do something I can.

So its either rebuild the currently ones, or get new ones. A cam swap is going to cost me over $700 so will new heads and intake. MPG is no longer an issue as I have aquired a third car. So we can go back to power again. which is leading me to Vortex Heads, and Intake.

 

OK lol sorry again what about these there RONNJONN

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PAR-2168/

These will be as much as heads and intakes.
Second question can i still use the rockers and nuts I have now or should i get new ones. I am also assuming that I will need new push rods the ones I have aren't that old. Well I think I have shopped enough Ill wait for you guys to reply. If I am going way off base here please tell me. I just want to get it right this time around.

 

You know those heads you linked to are 55-86 standard replacement heads, right?
That intake won't work with those heads...

 

Yeah just fixed that thanks for the catch

 

Vortec heads are all the rage, and they have good value for money, but I'm not sure they go with that cam you have.
In my reading, I've noticed that there are 2 camps, and I'm not sure which one to join. One camp says that since the intake port flow stalls above 0.475" lift, it's better to choose intake lobes with no more than 0.480" lift. The other camp say this doesn't matter, run whatever cam you like.
I've also found that the RHS Vortec heads are claimed to way out-flow all other "Vortec" heads, and the RHS 180 heads as well. I don't know what to make of that. But If it can be independently verified, I'd get those.
Of the remaining "180 cc" heads, all except the AFRs seem to flow within a few cfm of each other, and all seem to have much better exhaust flow than the GM Vortec heads. This seems to help HP.
I don't believe that the GM Vortec heads are the best choice for what you're doing, but I can't make your choice for you. I'm just advocating aftermarket heads to go with your serious cam.

 

I think this is getting way to involved for a seasonal car, I wont drive it that much, since I live in NY it will be stored most of the year, OCT to MAY might just be better off selling it.

I would love to fix it but your talking another $1000.00 and then ill lose that when I go to sell it.

I thank you all for your advice but I am seeing now that I am in way further then I need to be, I dont have the time money or heart to fix it just to sell it. I am already sad at the thought of having to get rid of it.

I had it for sale once before but then decided to keep it and tune it up.... guess I should have just stuck to my guns.

Again thank you all but I think its time to say goodbye to my blue monster...