I have a 1991 Rs Camaro 5.0 TBI crap with a high flow cat, cut-out, flow master muffler, and open element intake. My buddy just bought a 4.6 mustang gt manual stock. I wanted to race him but i only want to do it if i know ill keep up or beat him. Will i get smoked by him?

 

yes.

 

Without decent engine work, weight reduction, or low ratio gears or something you will definitely lose unless he messes up a shift or 2 bad enough, the 4.6 isn't the quickest thing but the only stock engine 3rd gens have that can match it is the 350 tpi, which should actually be an extremely close race, a lightly modified 305 tpi might also have a chance with some weight reduction as well.

 

Those things are slow as heck man. You should have at least give him a run for his money. but yah, A 350 TPI would be better

 

Just one more thing. What year is the stang?

 

you have a 305 you should already be embarassed trying to race at all

 

Dude im 17 and got a 1991 camaro garage kept with 40k for free from my parents think i really care about the motor size? and its a 2000. My 305 is a HO does that make a difference?

 

funny how age is an excuse for ignorance, trying to race modern v8's with 140rwhp

 

it has more then 140 hp

 

That's a bit harsh, and I wouldn't say a 4.6 gt is slow, but at any rate, a stock TBI car wouldn't stand a chance.

 

lol no it doesnt, 170 HP at the crank, 15% loss through the drivetrain at a minimum. Gives 145 HP at the wheels. now since its not brand new its prolly less then 170 at the crank so ya its damn near close to 140 HP

 

No such thing as a 1991 305 HO. They made a 305 HO in 1982 and 1984 and maybe 1983, but Im not sure. It was carburated.

Not to the wheels it doesn't. 170hp at the flywheel according to GM. A lot of torque, no horsepower, but horsepower is what wins races not torque.

The 4.6 is pretty lame, a 350 TPI could take it probably, but that aint sayin much by modern standards. Any 93+ Z28 or TA could smoke it. Those Mustangs are heavy and underpowered at the same time. But a stock thirdgen of any sort is gonna have a problem, especially a TBI 305. The TBI 305 does a great job at making a nice noise, getting good gas mileage, making torque from 800 RPM to 2500 RPM, and lasting a while. But its not good at going fast.

 

A 2000? Thought this was a third-gen forum

 

think he ment the stang was a 2000 since he said he has a 91 RS

 

well aint this funny i have a 1992 firebird 305 tbi and i run 202 hp to the rear tires and 268 tq to the rear tires and all i have is a 3 inch flowmaster system hi flow cat open element air cleaner corvette servo msd cap rotor coil ac delco plugs a chip from tbi chips and i run a 1/8 mile in 9.7 and i have the numbers to prove it http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.p...00000358483616 go to my facebook and look at my pics and you can see the dyno chart of 202 hp at 4417 rpm and 268 tq at 3773 rpm

 

Probably got one of those fabled freak of nature factory blueprint quality toleranced engines, lol.

 

In 1993 my uncle put a HO into the car but it was still a 305 HO With that tbi system. I have been saving for a mild cam, and a good pair of headers and heads...is it worth?

 

When the car was 2 years old your uncle swapped in a older H.O. motor?

 

If you want more speed for a good price, get a pair of Hooker Headers. $159 for a pair at Summit Racing. I would also suggest replacing your crappy throttle body for a better one. GM Performance sell a really good one for the 305 for $200. be carfull when swpping it out for a better one. there's an issue with the cable and if you dont consult an expert your ruin your trans. You'll get about 230 at the fly wheel at least. and like 330 lbs tq

 

lets just answer his question! NO you should not race HIM if it was in the 90's style mustang I would say yes because the 4.6 motor of the 90's only had 215 hp and 240tq so maybe with a good driver considering you both are young it would just come down to who is a better driver/redliner lol I still laugh at the fact that a stock 99 camaro v6 pushed out more power then a 97 98 mustang gt. BUT my answer to you is NO. and the saying is HP sells cars but torque wins races. I would not be racing anyways hope you mean track race!!!!!

 

No HO in 1982

 

I knew there was something weird with that... so it was 83 and 84 then? Things were weird those first few years.

So your uncle went through the trouble of switching in a very specific, rare motor that was only made for 2 years when yout car was 2 years old?

305 "HO" motors are one of those things like... "parts from a corvette". Everyone claims to have them, but more often than not they're lying, or the part that "came from the corvette" is no better than a part that came from a 1972 kidnapper wagon. It's like thirdgens with 350s. Everyone thinks they have a 350 because someone told them that or they cant handle the fact that they just have a regular 305. But the vast majority of thirdgen camaros have 305s.

 

This is true. The HO was introduced a year later in 1983. Also I agree with 383firebirdokc. If it's a 2000, AND a manual, you wont beat him. Unless he's a terrible driver. and your 17 like me, so he's not a worse driver then you, even if your good. unless he's 12. I also have an RS 5.0. the only thing I've done to it is a shift kit when I rebuilt the transmission. It's still slow. You can beat some cars on the road, but none of them are worth racing/braging about it afterwards. Rplace the exhuast and headers and then get some better rear end gears and then you might have a chance.

 

Yeah he owns a junkyard and found it asked if we wanted it then put it in?

 

Are your valvecovers centerbolt or perimeter bolt?

http://www.streamlineus.com/UserData...rge/121248.jpg
This is centerbolt


http://www.layitlow.net/pics/1003/IMG_1047.JPG
This is perimeter bolt

It's a difference of the mounting bolts for the valve cover going through the center of the valve cover, or going through the outer lip where the gasket is.

 

The HO motor is rated at 20 more hp but 15 less tq. That's with it being tuned right. Since I doubt your uncle reprogramed the computer at all its prolly running worse then if its the original LO3 motor. You asked if we thought you'd win. We said no and your claiming you think you'll win so why don't you go race him and find out then?

 

Ok so i feel a little stupid since i can remember there has been a crate motor in the garage and i always thought my dad would say that the original 305 but today i called him to get everything figured out and he said that the one sitting there is the HO motor i feel dumb but its cool cause he got a gto and now i know ill win for a fact still kept the camaro too though

 

A TPI 305 with d speed would keep up (220hp)

 

A TPI 305 with 5 speed would keep up (220hp)

 

GMs ratings were net HP in the 80s not bulk/gross hp(bhp). Sometime in the 70s they switched from using bulk to net. Net hp includes drive train deductions. Look at my car... Its 220 HP while a 305 TPI auto makes 190 in 88... The main reason is drive train

 

are you saying 3rd gens were rated BHP or WHP?

 

Net HP does not include drivetrain losses. Net HP is the engine with accessories and the OEM intake with filter and exhaust manifolds, vs. gross HP which was no air filter, no accessories, and (typically) headers.

[EDIT] Here's the Wikipedia page
[More edit] The reason for the power rating difference between the auto and 5-speed LB9 engines was the cam. Automatic cars got a peanut cam good for 190hp while manual cars were rated at 215. See this thread for the cam differences, and TGO's 1987 Camaro Tech Data page.

 

I hope to god I dont have 140BHP

 

shoulda spent less on the tacky airbrushing and mufflers, everyone was thinking it

 

OK LISTEN ... ill tell you how to beat this kid ... right before you guys go to race jump out of the car and start looking at your tire .. when he rolls down his window to ask whats up run over punch him in the throat dukes of hazzard back over into your car and take off...... you win .... yay!!!!

 

Tacky Airbrushing! I Think not good sir. This is quality work.
And you have an '82 firebird. Which stock has 145HP on the dino. Where'as mine has 170HP. Not that I am braging about having a large amount of horse power, because I don't. I'm 17, it's not like I should have alot now anyway (not that I dont want alot), I still have 4 months till I get my permit replaced by a drivers licence anyway. 4 months to upgrade and modify.

 

Also GSRacing is right. As idiotic as it sounds that is the only ethical way to beat your friend fair and square. That or syphon out the gas from his tank and replace it with water while he's not looking.

 

sounds like somebody shops at autozone for his upgrades....... (skelitor)

 

So far, only a corvette shift kit. And that was at American transmissions.

 

Creigslist is way better for upgrades. But I'm looking at summit racing. usually overpriced, but every once and a while they have a good price on somthing.

 

yeah before i poor any money into that 305 why dont you switch it back out and get a 350 carb and stroke it to 383 and have some real fun I mean you can probably find a 350 for about 500-1000 used somewhere like craigslist or something. I see people try to beef up there 305tpi/305HO. I even owned one I had a 87 GTA with a 305tpi and even though I liked the torque I truly did not feel the power till I was on the highway. your going to be so much happier saving your nickels and dimes and going for a 350. instead of pooring the same money into your 305 in performance parts.

 

i have a similar problem. haha. my cousin has a 1999 mustang with a 3.8 manual, super chip is wat he said was in it, and some sort of aftermarket headers. and cold air intake. i have a 1992 rs camaro with the 305 automatic. im uneasy about racing him cuz i dnt know if i will match him. can yall give me some advice?

 

Lol, it sure doesnt sound like 140hp does it? But unfortunately thats about right. And think about it this way, your 92 305 TBI has 140hp to the wheels. Guess how much hp to the wheels a 1982 Z28 had? About 140hp. What about a 1976 400ci Pontiac Trans Am? 160-165hp or thereabouts. 1978 Z28? Around 150-160.

There's a reason these guys trash the old 70s GM 350 heads and the old 70s smogger junk as being outdated and old hat. Note this applies to most all stock 350s people find in junkyards or "some truck" or whatever too. The vast majority of chevy smallblocks are slow as molasses going uphill unless you put a little work into them. The only decent stock 350s were from our IROCs/Z28s and the corvettes, really, unless you count the vastly overinflated specs on some of hte late 60's engines, but that's all gross hp under perfect circumstances, and at compression levels that modern unleaded pump gas disagrees with.

You make 170 SAE net hp, most "muscle cars" after 1975 or so had a hard time getting too much beyond that with engines up to 100 cubic inches larger. You get better gas mileage and better drivability, even if you only have 140 whp. It could be worse. Hell you can probably beat a lot of those mid-late 70s "muscle" cars in your little 305 if they're stock. But anything from the 90s on you better watch yourself.

 

What the smart thing is to do is buy stuff for your 305 that will also fit/work with a 350 or 383. So when you (if you) swap, they will fit and not be wasted. Things like headers and exhaust, performance chip, air cleaner, etc... Also upgrade the rear end gears for a better launch, and put a corvette shift kit into your trans if you rebuild it. It shifts really slow and that help it shift harder. The 305 and 350 are similar engines, so look before you buy a part to make sure it'll fit both.

 

put the factory stall to use get rpms as high as you can without squeelin the tires gas and brake until about 1600 rpm and let off brake to start race should have a pretty good holeshot(caution do not stall more than 15-20 secs extreme heat is produced during this time).also swaping pumpkin gears would help,somthing in high 3's low 4's but you loose gas milage

 

3:73 posi traction rear end is pefect for the third gen.

 

mines a 3.23,and its not to bad my converter is way to big for my 305.its a 3400 lol