So I was driving yesterday, and noticed I was low on gas, so I figured I'd get to the gas station(I'd been that low before and never had any problems). Well, while making a turn, the car just shut off, no loud noise nothing, just off. Well I figured I just ran out of gas(never owned a car before), so I went and got some gas, put it in, and it wouldn't start, wouldn't even fire. So I got it towed home, figured it couldn't be that big of an issue.

So, I started working on it, tried starting fluid into the TB, and it wouldn't ignite at all, no grunts or anything. By this time I had killed the battery, so I put it on charge for the night.

Walked out this morning, threw the battery in, and she fired right up, even faster than normal. So I let it run for 15 minutes thinking, something got into the fuel line or clogged. So I shut it off, restarted it and it started fine, took it for a drive, and it ran like normal. Brought it home, took a shower, came back out and it wouldn't start again. Thought it might be the fuel pump, listened and it hums semi quietly when the ignition is turned on. Then I started suspecting I was getting no spark.

I checked the first plug, and it was loose in the plug hole, so I took it out, put it in a spark plug wire, and held it against the body of the car. Turned the ignition and got the crap shocked out of me, and the car started up again fine. So I shut it off ,reinstalled the spark plug and the wire, tried it again and it wouldn't start.

I took the second spark plug wire off and put the spark plug from cylinder 1 in it, and no spark. So I threw the spark plug from cylinder 1 back in the wire from cylinder 1, and it wouldn't spark this time. I figured it was something with the distributor or coil. Pulled the cap, the terminals on the cap seemed fine, and the rotor wasn't bad. I stuck a spark plug wire on the ignition coil and then threw a plug in it, and grounded the plug, again no spark. I assumed that it must be the ignition coil then, so I went and picked once up at the local auto zone, also brought the ignition module with me and had em test it(test passed on all of em). The guy ran the test about 5 times, just in case it was an intermittent problem when it warmed up, still passed all tests. Went home, threw it all in with the new ignition coil, and it hesitated and was kinda loud, but started up, and then died about 4 seconds later. Tested for spark from the ignition coil, and no spark, so it was obviously not the ignition coil.

I tested the resistance on the pickup coil, and it reads about 880 ohms. I initially thought after the new ignition coil didn't work, that it for sure had to be the pick up coil. So I turned the ignition on, and tested for voltage on the pink wire going to the ignition coil, and got 12v. At this point I'm about at a lost for words, I don't know what else to pursue. I have heard also that a loose ground can cause all kinds of weird problems, I tested the battery positive against the car frame, and couldn't get it to read. It read fine off the radiator cap though.

Having said all that, I will also add in, I've had minor problems with the car before. Stuff like I'd start the car, and within a couple seconds the rpms would die down a little, and it'd shut off. That would only happen once in a while though. I also recently just had to replace the water pump and the belt tensioner arm/pully.

I also recently had to modify my hatch pull down motor to get it to work correctly, by cutting the terminals on the t switch, soldering wires to them, and reversing the connections to the pull down motor. Before that it would work in reverse. So I'd been working in the back of the car, not sure if theres some a wire I could have messed with back there or something. I don't see how that would affect the engine control system, but whatever I won't leave out any details, I'm desperate.

My most recent decision I'm coming to is, I have to replace the distributor assembly, which comes with the ignition module and pick up coil. I figure I have to get spark then, otherwise I'm an idiot. I'd much rather just replace the pickup coil, but as I'm reading 808 ohms, and the book says thats fine, I don't think that'll be it. I read in another post a guy took his ignition module to autozone had it tested, and it was fine, yet his car still wouldn't start. In the end he replaced the ignition module, and the car worked fine.

I'm suppose to be picking up my gf from the airport sunday, so I really need my car to work. Having said that, I also have gone through about $140 in the past day trying to get this thing running, so I'm running on low funds. If anyone has some golden information, so maybe something I'm missing, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'll also be writing a post about how I fixed my hatch pull down motor, since I had spent so long on it. I also apologize for the big wall of text, its late and I have to work tomorrow...without a car. Thanks.

 

So it either wont start at all or it starts great? Does your car have a resistor in the key?

 

Yes, my car has a resistor in the key. It starts intermittently, not often though. Like I said this morning I threw the battery in it, and it started up even faster than usual, like on the first crank, usually its the 3/4 crank. After that though nothing.

 

I just read about what the resistor in the key does, and I don't believe that pertains to my problem. The vat system essentially locks out the fuel pump, and the starter if the wrong key is put in. My car cranks fine, its just not getting spark

 

it turns the injectors off, it does not lock the fuel pump.

 

My issue isn't fuel, its spark. I can spray starting fluid directly in the TB, and it won't fire at all. The distributor doesn't send power to the spark plugs. I don't mean to be rude, but did you read my post, I do apologize its so long.

 

I should also note its a 305 tbi.

 

I would start at making sure all the connections to and from the distributor are good, solid connections with no corrosion. Check wires for splits, cracks, fraying, ect, and see what you find. Make sure the distributor is plugged in good too, it sounds like you have a ground issue or a bad connection somewhere.

"... so I took it out, put it in a spark plug wire, and held it against the body of the car."
Did you put it in cyl #1's plug wire? Or a different wire? Its unclear.

"Went home, threw it all in with the new ignition coil, and it hesitated and was kinda loud, but started up, and then died about 4 seconds later. Tested for spark from the ignition coil, and no spark, so it was obviously not the ignition coil." Did you check for spark from the coil before trying to start it for the first time after installing everything?

It wouldnt hurt trying a different ICM, maybe that is the case for you as well.

"Walked out this morning, threw the battery in, and she fired right up, even faster than normal."
Just a thought, have you had your battery and alternator tested yet?

 

Hey Black, good advice on the checking connections, I'm going to do that today when I get home. As for what I tried, sorry I'll try and explain it a little better. I pulled the plug out of cylinder 1, and put it in the wire from cylinder one, and held it against the chassis. That is when I first got it to spark and shock the crap out of me, and it started up. I then put the plug back in, and put the wire back in, and tried starting it, and no go. Then I took the plug from cylinder 2 out, and pit it in the wire from cylinder 2 and held it against the frame, tried to start and nothing. So I then took the spark plug from cylinder 1 and put it in the wire from cylinder 2, tried again and nothing. I then proceeded to take the wire off of cylinder 1, and put it on the distributor terminal that cylinder 2 had been on, tried both spark plugs from cylinder 1 and 2 in it, and still no spark. I even tried to just put it all back the way it was, and retest cylinder 1, and still no spark.

I have a friend who is banking on it being the icm, I just don't understand how the guy can test it 5 times, and it come up good on every pass. With the way the autoparts stores are, if I buy that ICM, put it on, and it doesn't work, they won't take it back because its an electronic. I got lucky and they took back the ignition coil, only because one of the guys there told me for sure that was my problem.

I'm going to do some further testing when I get home, like hooking the ignition coil back up, with the wire that has the power in/tach, and then connecting the pigtail, and make sure its feeding 12v to the ICM from the pink wire. My only issue with checking all the grounds, is that I don't know where all of them are. Also, the wires for the ICM are probably jumped into the wiring harness and fed into the firewall, which then goes into the cabin, so its a bit hard to check that.

As for the alternator, its brand new. I didn't replace it myself, but the previous owner did. Pop the hood, and its shiny whereas everything else is dull, and dirty.

 

Ok, thats what I thought you meant but i wanted to make sure.

I wouldnt be surprised if it was the ICM, they can do some very strange things when they start to go out. Your story does fit the description of crazy things they'll do.

If theres a way to get another ICM somehow (from a friend, a spare you have, from a junkyard maybe, ect) and try it to see if the problem goes away that would be ideal.

I would think right now you have a bad connection somewhere or its the ICM and ill probably agree with the other guy in that its the ICM.

 

The pickup coil could be intermittent.

The other item is the two-wire pigtail between the coil & ICM. The wire breaks inside where it exits the coil side connector.

RBob.

 

So I bit the bullet and replaced the ICM tonight, regardless of mine testing ok at Autozone. Well so far, everytime I've tried to start it, its started right up. It does seem to be idling a little low, especially when pressing the brakes. Other than that though, it seems fine, only time will tell. I'll keep this thread updated if anything arises, or if it just suddenly won't start again.

It really does seem ridiculous that I can test the ICM at Autozone which comes out ok, yet its actually bad. Almost seems like a ploy to try and get me to spend more money with them. I mean hell here I am looking at replacing the whole distributor, when the problem was the first thing I looked at. Seems a bit fishy to me, and of course you can't return electronic components. So in reality, testing the ignition module at Autozone, tells you nothing.

 

I actually guess it isn't idling though, it idles around 500-700. I'm too used to motorcycles where a pretty baseline number is 1400.