Getting a parts list ready and I am trying to decide on which way to go. I already have flat head tappet lifters in my car, but I have a buddy that has everything I need (minus Cam Buttons) for switching over to a Roller System.

All Said and done, it would be cheaper to stick with the tappet over the roller but should I? Would I see a large difference in performance and efficiency going with the rollers?

Planned Parts List:

ProComp 210cc Heads
292XFI H13 Cam .584/.579
ProComp Rods and rockers
GM Performance lifters (roller or tappet)
Cometic Head Gaskets

Already have a good intake and carb.


So, should I spend the extra money and convert to Roller or save money and stay with Tappet?

 

Doing all the pricing...

$1500 For the Roller Setup
or
$1200 for the Tappet Setup

$300 difference for 20-40hp... is it worth it....hmm

 

Where you buying your parts ; 5th Ave ?

Flat tappet cams run under $200 new
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-30117/
and retro fit lifters for >$350 a set
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-72330LUN/
what are you getting for the extra $600 ????

roller cam lets you have higher valve lift with less duration;
better bottom end and idle than flat tappet cam with same lift

 

Heads! ;P

The more I look into it, the more i think i would rather go with rollers. I would get more hp and better efficiency for only a few hundred more bucks

 

Two things come to mind.
First is that if you can afford it, a roller is the way to go. Same thing applies to the valve train. If you afford a full roller rocker, then do it.
Second is the limitation of the OEM roller lifter. It's well documented that they are at their operational limit approaching 6000 rpm. The cam you've spec'd will still be making steam well past the point the lifters can do their job. Something to consider. The hydraulic roller lifter also demands a quality spring. There's a lot of weight you're throwing around and the requirements are greater than that of a flat tappet lifter.

 

The heads come with PROcomp springs and rockers

 

The heads come with PROcomp springs rated to a .600 lift. Ill be sitting pretty with that cam.

 

What they're able to provide lift wise is only part of the spec. Find the open and closed ratings for the springs and be sure they match the criteria set out by what ever cam you decide on. I've seen more than one set of heads damaged because the assembler/builder made the assumption that everything would be ok.

 

They are built by abad71camaro. I trust their builds and specs. Never hurt to double check though!

 

GM OEM LS7 Lifters GMPP # 12499225
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NA...9225/?rtype=10

Good to 7k @ $135 a set
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1579707959-post17.html

 

The roller will last much longer on the street than the flat tappet. With those, the spring pressure really becomes critical as its a balance between the cam wear and the requirement to control the valve train. Flat tappets only work well over many thousands of miles when the spring pressure is light, such as in an OHC engine. That's been my experience, anyway.

The only downside to the conversion is cost. Good retro-roller lifters are expensive. I paid 500 some odd dollars for my morels. They've lasted and haven't given me any issues, but to get reliability, you need to be willing to pay. These are also 60% heavier than a similar flat tappet, so you'll want to use beehives and light-weight valves and retainers so you don't have to run lots of spring.

You will also need a new timing chain cover (the retro ones have re-enforced seats for the thrust button) and roller thrust button to limit potential movement of the cam. Preferably you should also get a timing set with a torrington thrust bearing. These cams stay put like a flat tappet does due to the force from driving the oil pump, but they cannot be allowed to move since the rollers will be trashed by it. Also, different setups need different length thrust buttons and shim sets. I had to buy a few buttons and try them out to find the right one that either wasn't too long, or too short and needed too much shim.

You can use mechanical rollers instead. The good ones will be a little cheaper, and will tolerate more spring than a hydraulic lifter will. If you use roller rockers, then you will seldom need to adjust the lash as there's nothing to wear.

Id probably pin the cost at around 700-1200 dollars. Not cheap, but then again, reliability seldom is.

 

I suppose I should have qualified that by saying " OEM SBC Gen 1 roller lifters". I've read good things about the LS7 lifters and have experience with the newer Comp short travel lifters too.

 

The conversion will cost you around $1000 including proper springs. You dont want to cheap out on springs. Just assuming hardware is good enough is how you get into trouble, become disappointed later on, and blow up engines. If it's not a major brand name with clearly defined specs that match up closely to what the cam manufacturer suggests, to try and make them work is playing roulette. Do it right the first time. Any "pro comp" springs are garbage as far as Im concerned.

Account for:

1. new timing cover + cam button
2. new springs
3. Roller lifters
4. roller cam
5. pushrods

Controlling endplay (usually with timing cover + button) can be done different ways. Springs will depend on a lot of factors. Lifters, cam, and pushrods will set you back between $500-$800 depending on various factors. Some retro lifters are setup for flat tappet length pushrods, but Im not sure if all of them are.

 

Procomp has come along way man... Don't knock their new stuff... Speaking from experience here...

 

I have buddies using procomp and have never heard or seen a problem with them. That said, I'll be sticking with the .600 rated ProComp springs coming with the heads.

Didn't consider pushrods being different lengths for the rollers...i'll add that to the list.

You have a link to the preferred cam button and timing cover?

 

What do you guys think about this kit?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CC...68-8/?rtype=10


Only thing missing are the pushrods and cam button...

 

I had some bad experiences with the comp lifters, or at least the older ones they used to make. Theres also been stories and pics on the internet of the linkbars popping off, causing instant destruction. You may want to look into them and see if the newer ones are any good. I think they may have switched suppliers after the complaints. Also, that kit looks like its for an OE roller engine. Do you have provisions for a roller cam (IOW, an 87+ block)?

 

Roller 7.200" ( nominal , actual should be checked before purchase
vs flat tappet @ 7.800"

 

You need to get out more
When 1st released Procomp head had a multitude of QC problems ( supposedly now fixed ) that gave them a enduring bad name with some
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...62&postcount=4
http://forums.dragcoverage.com/showp...21&postcount=4
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...59-post13.html

 

ill try and do some research.

I can call the guy who built the engine last and ask. I know it is a 4bolt main.

I think they have a complete retro fit kit with the xfi 292 h13 cam I am interested in, on summit. Kit would be simpler but i can piece it together too.

 

Interesting...if we wanted to stay away from procomp, what heads would you suggest? I already have Votecs and I could have those sent to be ported and built for beehive springs and such which would allow for the valve lift.

 

What are you performance goals? It may be the Vortecs are entirely suitable.

 

I'm dynoing at 350 right now, i am shooting for 450-500. Not looking for crazy numbers , just want some more get up and go.

 

450 chp is about the upper limit for a stock (or near stock) Vortec headed 350. By most accounts anyway. I can tell you that it may not take a lot of great parts to get there, but it will to stay there.
I wouldn't think that 500 naturally aspirated hp is reachable with the small 170cc Vortec intake runner amd certainly not the stock valve sizes.
That said, with the right spec camshaft and compression ratio, as well as induction and exhaust to suit, you could get close to the lower limit of your target.

 

I am just gonna go with better heads. Just not even bother with it. Ill sell the vortecs and get a little money towards heads. Seeing that everyone is a little freaked out about procomps what do you guys suggest? Patriot? Edlebrock?

 

These AFRs look promising. http://m.summitracing.com/parts/afr-1054-1

or GM Performance 210cc hot burn heads...

 

If you haven't invested in Vortec specific parts (intake manifold) then you can start from a clean sheet with repsect to heads.
Popular advice is to choose the SMALLEST intake port volume that will still achieve your horsepower objective. 210 cc to target 450-500 hp seems a little overkill. You`ll leave some low engine speed torque on the table.
Decide on your cam, zero in on the compression ratio, make the choice between aluminum or cast iron and then pick your heads.
I already had a Vortec build so I had an intake. I kept the Vortec architecture and went with another 170cc cast iron head. I don't think I'll have any trouble acheiving 400-425 chp.
If you step that up to one of the popular 190cc heads, you're 450+ target is reachable.

 

The castings themselves had issues, but I wouldnt worry so much about that at this point. They've probably ironed a lot of those out. For the price they still aren't bad. But they're still a cut every corner possible to keep the bottom line price in the basement type head. I wouldn't trust any of the hardware on them.

 

I think I am going with the bare Procomp Head, and just build it with good quality parts that I trust. The head casting is their newest (gen III) and I have seen some good reviews on the new castings on LS1 tech.

 

a flat tappet hydraulic cam will function correctly if properly installed but compared to a decent roller cam it can easily cost you 30-40 plus hp in some applications
good hydraulic flat tappet cams and lifters are significantly less expensive at $170-$600 for name brand components vs $870-$1500 for a roller set up,obviously depending on components selected and changes required.

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...hp?f=52&t=3802

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...php?f=52&t=181