Slowpoint0

Car needed a thermostat shop that did it broke the bolts. They sawed them off and chewed into the intake ,so therm gasket no longer seals.

So it needs new intake manifold. While its off I want to do a cam also, xe262 with lifters and timing chain set. What is a good manifold for this cam? And should I get stall converter too. Carb will still be quadrajet!

When that's all done I bought the 3.42 rear gears you guys recommend before.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Performer or ZZ4 take-off

Slowpoint0

Ok thanks. Do I need to do anything with stock distributor to run new cam??
And what about the stall converter??
For the cam I think I'm going to go with the compcams XE256 kit.. cam,lifters,springs,retainers, timing gears and chain.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

A converter becomes less necessary with more gear... would help of course, but just, less necessary.

As I've often said, the way to make a CAR faster (note that I said CAR, not ENGINE) isn't to unbolt the big obvious easy-to-get-to pieces that sit on top, and bolt in new shiny ones. The right way is, identify THE ONE THING most making the car slow, and apply an upgrade that's consistent with everything else and in line with your ulitmate goal for the car; this will then expose another thing, treat it the same way; then the next, the next, the next, and so on. IOW, find the "bottleneck" and fix it.

Most of the time, the things keeping THE CAR slow are buried deep and are completely invisible, before AND after upgrading them. Gears and converter, above most other things, are in this class. But, THE ONE THING (see above paragraph) that is MOST responsible for making LG4 cars slow, is the exhaust. EVERY PIECE of it needs to be replaced, from the heads to the street. Don't cheeeeeeep out here; get good quality, well-made stuff, SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for one of these cars, BUT NOT for LG4. Reason being, if ANY of it is possible to bolt to ANY LG4 part, it will preserve the bottleneck, which in this case, is the coffee-stirrer sized Y-pipe. I'd suggest the best quality headers you can afford, made SPECIFICALLY FOR 3rd gen F bodies, BUT NOT for LG4; maybe, for a 350 TPI instead; a "direct fit" cat (NOT "universal"), chosen for the same application; and a good-quality 3" cat-back exhaust. Without that, virtually nothing else will ever make any difference.

No need to change the dist if you're keeping the stock carb. (which also isn't "the bottleneck")

Slowpoint0

thanks, but wasnt asking about (Bottle necks) have to replace my intake manifold.. so figured id do the cam since i was going to be in there anyways. just wanted to know if cam needed anything else..
thanks for your help!

sorch60

Since I've been digging around trying to find cam recommendations for my L69 I'll give you some input on what I found.

The biggest thing I'm learning now that I'm not a teenager anymore is, the more you learn ahead of time the better off you are. Anyway...

There's a 'Cam Primer' on this site that goes into a lot of good info. But the big takeaway may be that your Compression Ratio needs to work with your cam. In a post a few away from this I said I was looking at the XE274, but now I'm thinking down to the XE268 or XE262 since I'm running the L69 with I would say a little better than 9.5:1 CR (I have some head work done). On the LG4 you'll have about 8.5:1 ratio so the XE256 is probably a better pick for you, so good job on that. Just a word of advice, take a look at the Lunati Voodoo cams, the 60601 (256) would be appropriate. Apparently a lot of people don't like the XE cams, I hear they're a bit loud. The Voodoo's have a more gradual closing slope so they're a bit quieter, apparently.

Now to the real question of the intake manifold. I would also recommend the Edelbrock Performer. It claims to have an idle-5500RPM range so it should be more than adequate for that cam.

Slowpoint0

few questions when you say Compcams XEs are "loud" do you mean (noisy) or that (lumpy) cam sound??

and theres a bunch of edle performer intakes how do i know which one? i want to use stock qjet carb so square bore, right?

When i looked up that Vodoo cam it came back as a Ford part.. haha

thanks for the help guys.

85_ZED28

His LG4 will be 9.5:1 as well.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You might not have been asking, but you did ask what manifold would work, and mentioned a specific cam. Since we don't like to see people disappointed, we try to tell you what you need to know, even if you don't know you need to know it.

My LG4 started off like yours. I used the aforementioned ZZ4 intake, Hooker 2055 headers, 3" cat (I wasn't smart enough at the time to get a direct fit cat like sofa recommended - I highly recommend a direct fit cat for the '86-'90 TPI single cat application, like the Catco 9118), a 3" cat back. The cam was known at the time as a Crane Compucam 2050 - much hairier than the XE256 you're considering. I had a rebuilt converter that stalled at 2300 behind this combo. Ran much, much better than the stock LG4.

If all you do is the intake and cam kit, you'll probably be disappointed with the results.

Slowpoint0

The exhaust will get headers and y pipe after too. It's got magna flow cat now with 2 1/2" dynomax catback on it..
So doing a trq converter couldn't hurt then.
Iv read a lot of people used the Chevy S10 converter. Would that work in my case??

Also have but Not installed yet the 3.42 rear gears you guys recommend..

sorch60

I'm not sure how his LG4 would be a 9.5:1 CR as well? Unless he gets his heads milled, or swaps the pistons. Can you clarify that? Maybe I missed something

sorch60

Sorry about that. I've heard they're noisy, like they tick or click when the valves close because they shut very quickly. Again, this is what I've heard, I don't have personal experience with the XE line.

Take a look at this, not sure how to make it a hyperlink but do the copy and paste thing if it doesn't work.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60101/

QJet is spreadbore, not squarebore. Depending on if you're keeping EGR or not use the Edelbrock Performer 2101 or 3701. I might give a call to Edelbrock to make sure you don't have to purchase any additional parts to mount up the QJet to the intake. If you're re-doing the exhaust, you're probably not keeping EGR.

Slowpoint0

Egr will be removed. Any ideas as to price on cam install? Intake I could handle but , cam yeah not so much.. Also how are the Summit intakes? A friend has a summit 226008 new still in box he never used went 355ci engine instead. Anyways he said I could have it.
Would it work well with qjet and new cam??

85_ZED28

All f-body 305s were 9.5:1 in '86. See below:

https://www.thirdgen.org/1986-chevy-camaro

sorch60

Cool, learn something new every day. You know what GM changed to achieved that?

85_ZED28

Not sure. Pistons I guess because I believe the heads were the same.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Correct, pistons. '82-'84 LG4 had dished pistons, '85-'86 had flat tops with valve reliefs. '87-up had shallower dish with valve reliefs (dropped CR down to 9.3:1).

sorch60

Just wanted to close the loop on this. Now that we know you've got the 9.5:1 CR, take a look at the XE262 or the Voodoo 60102.

Slowpoint0

ok, i like the 262, so whats your thoughts on the summit manifold 226008 non egr same specs as performer but i can get it for free, would it work well with Xe or Vodoo cam i want to use??
also can i just do cam, lifters , and springs??

or does it have to be the whole package cam,lifters,timing chain,retainers ect?

Kumicho

Hmm...that"s stange

I'm reading the 87 Pontiac service manual, and I've read that the LG4 is at 8.6:1, the LB9 and L98 are both at 9.5:1.
Pg# 6A3-28 - V8 ENGINE

This is from the GM literature, so which is correct

Kumicho

...I'm also interested in eventually adding some (MPG Friendly) go-fast goodies, so making sure about the CR would be vital, yes?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Engines are totally illiterate.

Therefore they don't read "literature". Especially not sales brochures.

Therefore what's "correct", is THE PARTS THAT ARE IN THEM.

Since THE PARTS are fairly easy to identify, I'll take identifying THE PARTS over "literature" any day of the week.

Kumicho

Wow, my first two posts on TGO, and the conversations already get interesting ...Me Likeee...

I was under the impression that the specs five7kid quoted were for what the engines came with from the factory, and assuming that the service manual figures reflect factory stock cars - hence my confusion.

I'm only interested in the true GM stock specs, not what some owner down the line modified the car to be. If one has a factory stock engine, why would the service manual supply conflicting info? Was GM that nefarious? If so, then steer me straight.

Kumicho

bump...

Kumicho

No straightening, I see...after quite some time
Are GM's Service Manual specs not to be trusted on stock, unmodified and unmolested engines?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I'll put it this way:

If I've got a "book" in one hand (doesn't matter who printed it) and a part in the other, and what the book SAYS doesn't agree with what the part IS, I'll believe the part EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK over the "book".

Take it for what it's worth.

Drac0nic

I'd go with the Compucam honestly over the XE lobes for longevity. If you wanna go budget get a Summit K1102 or 1103 cam. I had the 1103 in my TPI engine and still got good vacuum and made a good bit of power.

The last LG4 I pulled apart was flat top pistons and 416 heads, same as my 86 TPI 305. If you can get/borrow one find a bore scope, pull a plug and turn the engine with a bar until the piston hits TDC; If you have flat tops it's 9.5:1 otherwise it's low compression. That engine is almost 3 decades old, who knows what has happened to it in its life span.

Get the thinnest head gaskets you can find when you put it back together as well, simply to keep/increase compression.

Besides this, overall I agree with pulling the cam at the same time you do the intake. If it were a "good" cam I'd be a lot less excited about the change, but it's the peanut cam so it will serve you well to change it. Don't forget you'll want to do valve springs and possibly seals as well (may be able to get rid of the "morning puff" if your engine has it) and lastly don't forget you'll have to pull the radiator, water pump, oil pan and damper to do the cam swap on a Chevy. It's doable by a DIYer but involved especially in car.

If you get cold feet on it or doubt your mechanical ability, I would leave the cam be and worry about the exhaust when you get a chance. You have a ton of low hanging fruit left there as mentioned. It would allow you to get a little more experienced mechanically and be able to do the cam when comfortable. "Project creep" kills a ton of stuff, my van is like that honestly. If you're newer to wrenching it makes it a hell of a lot easier to diagnose a single change causing issues than figure out which one of 10 is doing it.

A performer knock off should be fine for what you're doing especially for free. There are only a hand full of stock manifolds that are regarded as "good" on production SBCs. Some of the aftermarket intakes are junk too, but that's a good design that will gain you power.

These guys are giving you good advice on the gearing too. Good places to get new gears and another carrier from are Astro Vans, Bravadas, S10s and maybe G-bodies such as Grand Prix or Monte Carlos but most of those have smog gears. If you're below 3.23 numerically that's the highest you can go without changing carriers. They also changed the splines of the axles at some point, so bear that in mind before you grab a carrier. It may behoove you to look for a good condition used axle with a higher ratio. Something like a 6 cylinder or a 4th gen (keep in mind they are wider) would be the ticket at that point. Easy to bolt in higher gears and provided there's no chipped teeth or trash in the bottom probably enough axle to serve you well with this iteration of your project.

Don't feel bad if you can't do it all at once, rome wasn't built in a day. It will affect performance but after everything comes together you'll go "man my car is way faster than it was before."

Kumicho

Kumicho

In response to your last post Sofa, I'm completely with you on that - parts speak a thousand words, every time. It's just disheartening every time I hear of these discrepancies on a whim from GM...as for instance...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...86-post13.html

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, the same guys that write the BOM to build a car, aren't the same ones that write the ad copy, service manuals, or any other of that "publicity" stuff... but if it'll make you feel any better about it, it's not just GM, not just cars, it's the same in EVERY industry. It's PARTICULARLY BAD when the parts get CHANGED at some point during a production run, but the guys writing that other stuff either aren't informed, or don't realize that it makes a difference, or even just accidentally overlook one little phrase or number or other detail somewhere.

Drac0nic

GM is not the worse I've ever heard of. I knew a guy that needed a bearing for his Dodge Demon, the parts store had 3 listed for his year. You had to pull it to find out wich one, and his wasn't even listed because he had a former cop car which was a fourth one. So yeah it's bad but could be worse. Then again GM seems to have it work in people's favor such as the pistons being flat topped or the "good" TPI cam instead of the peanut cam. Neither of those mods I would complain about GM doing for me