Figure id ask u tgo experts...im planning on a 383 build i have a tpi 350 i was gonna have machine work done to but i came across this on ebay...i read diff opinions about seller but im stuck either renting a truck and droping off my engine to a machine shop spending 450 on the machine work plus a 383 kit (plus truck rental) or this for about 1800 all included...any feedback appreciated tnx ps been losing sleep over this lol

My block info: 14093638 roller provisons 2 bolt

Ebay: vortec block 4 bolt

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=35633040094

 

I don't like that they don't state the manufacturer of the rods (probably Procomp) and their 383 strokers are all external balance kits. Externally balanced isn't horrendous, but I think it's much better to get an internally balanced setup if you really plan on reaching some RPM's.

It really depends on what you want to do, I guess. I chose to piece things together the way I want it individually, but I could see this package being nice. I still don't like the rods, though.. I even asked them at one point if I could pay extra for a different set and they said no.

Skip White isn't dishonest by any means, but I do wish their ads weren't like a car salesman on half of the information in there. Some of it is borderline deceptive in how it is written, honestly.

Is it a bad kit? No, I don't think so.. but I personally opted out of that kit.

 

sure is a tempting deal.
i also felt like it had a salesman-type pitch to it. not the worst deal by far though. i noticed they carried alot of pro-comp parts,...ive heard mixed stories about theyre products but have no first hand experience.
im gonna follow your thread and see what others say about theyre products and service.
heres something somebody told me awhile back,...call up theyre customer service and tell them your having a problem. see how your treated? does a human answer?

 

Good point ******* joe...actually just moved from port richey to wv ........i believe they have internal balance as well...true didnt recognize no rod brand...hmmm....well ill research that but basically have my engine out ready to get started...thanks for the comments and any others would help as well tnx

 

I've looked at that exact kit, researched, and decided against it.

 

It worries me when it takes a seller 5 pages to " explain" how good their parts are.

 

no specification of rod brand???? They rave about them though....see ur point delta elite....atleast with a scat or eagle brand ur sure

Abubaca what did u end up going with just out of curiosity? Scat looks pretty good for the price

Tnx vettoz i agree im leanin towards my own block and build...what ur assembly as well????

 

Not bad but not for pushing a lot of power. No name rods and cast crank kinda scare me.

 

Who is assembling the engine?

Buy this already machined stroker ready 4 bolt roller cam block
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/

A stroker kit with a brand name you know
http://www.summitracing.com/search/m...ing%20assembly

Not a lot of difference in price for knowing what parts you actually have

The flexplate , sheet metal and other parts you reuse off your existing engine
Get some $$ back by selling you old roller cam block

 

Im gonna try to assemble engine and kit myself

Vetteoz thanks for the help and a new set of directions!!!! Never really thought about buying summit machined block and selling mine....i like the idea and still around the price range...ill ponder the idea and listen to other comments but so far sold on summit block and 383 kit mentioned... thanks again

 

I had to shelf the engine plans for a bit, due to a potential career change. Not sure how it's gonna play out yet, so extra spending is on hold. ...that being said, I looked into that Summit block too. THAT is the direction I would've gone had the finances been there. I know everyone had an opinion, but time and time again, Summit comes through. And even in the rare event of a mistake, they quickly make it right. I wouldn't hesitate to go that route.

 

To me the Skip white setup isnt a bad deal... but the no-name rods really freak me out too. Of all the things in the bottom end to "no-name" on ,the rods are the last I'd want to mess with.

Good luck with the career change.

 

Skip aint a bad guy he has a good niche, kind of a junk dealer but guys buy it all day long sucked in by cheap.
External balance? On a higher rpm motor no freakin way on a mild driver sure.

Some parts combos are tossed together and can take a lot of mallory metal to balance costing one hundreds rather than properlymatched parts that require little to make "right"

Nothing good is cheap.

 

Man did you say a mouth full. I couldn't agree with you more.

 

First: Thanks to all the feedback!!! i have a clearer project now

Second: and hopefully last question(s), any oposition to this order set? im gonna wait to see if any black friday or cyber monday specials before i order thanks

SUM-150100 - Summit Racing® 355 or 383 Chevy Remanufactured Engine Blocks


+ Add Notes SUM-150100 - Summit Racing® 355 or 383 Chevy Remanufactured Engine Blocks

Engine Block, Cast Iron, 4-Bolt Mains, 4.030 in. Diameter Bore, 1-Piece Rear Main Seal, Chevy, Small Block,350
Part Number: SUM-150100
Estimated Ship Date: Today

$699.95

CCA-08-501-8 - COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts




Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 264/269, Lift .488/.495, Chevy, Small Block, Each
$296.95

TFS-30400006 - Trick Flow® Super 23® 195 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevrolet



+ Add Notes TFS-30400006 - Trick Flow® Super 23® 195 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevrolet

Cylinder Heads, Super 23® 195, Fast As Cast®, Aluminum, Assembled, 62cc Chamber, Chevy, Small Block, Pair
$1,199.95
ESP-B13454L030 - Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies



+ Add Notes

 

If you're gonna go with a cheaper rotating assembly setup, I would give Scat the edge over Eagle. I've heard too many iffy things about them.

 

^hear yes and no on this....i dont plan on adding more power to this setup ill check scat kit but when i look for internal balance scat doesnt come up?

...anyone have issues with this eagle kit????

 

A few of the machine shops around here I've talked to don't like Eagle products. They mentioned casting flaws in the cranks causing them to split easily under stress as well as expensive balancing costs & machining quality in comparison to SCAT products. I've never had either so I can't say it's factual, but anyone I know that does regular drag racing over here doesn't touch Eagle rotating assemblies. They might have changed things in recent years, but it's usually not a good thing when 4/5 local shops all report having serious headaches with Eagle products within the past few years. I initially was going to buy an Eagle rotating assembly and didn't after doing some talking.

I also think you could do a lot better for the money spent than those Trickflow heads. They're not bad heads, but there's a lot better choices, IMO.

And as far as the cam is concerned.. I've probably said this in 50 threads now, but why buy a shelf cam when you can speak to someone who will make you something custom and a LOT more efficient for the same price? XE cams are good cams, but you can do a whole lot better if you just talk to someone who really knows their way around custom cams. The price is the same and you'll just be leaving power on the table otherwise. Why not take advantage of it?


My recommendations (if I had the choice):
- you don't need a forged crank unless you really plan on spinning the hell out of it. This is over-rated in my opinion, and you're overbuilding. If you've got the cash for it though then by all means - go for it.
- forged rods with GOOD ARP bolts are a must.
- Lightweight forged pistons (like Mahle or JE) are a good idea, but not mandatory. The lighter things are, the better though.
- a good set of aftermarket lifters is definitely a good idea on a motor like this. I certainly wouldn't skimp it on such a critical component.

Remember, building a motor shouldn't be about just "plugging things together". This hobby is all about learning. Anyone can throw a motor together; not everyone can make one that really runs its *** off, though. You can either do it right the first time and take your time doing it, or you can do it wrong twice and pay double for the same result. Look at it that way.

 

^^^thank u for the advise...im gonna go with eagle and the previous ordered items... im gonna go larger on cam but first will be the 383 block and assembly...this looks like a daunting task for a beginner but i need to learn sometime especially since this is my hobby...i might ask more questions on the way but im glad i had some advise from u guys thanks too all!!!

also wont be ordering till end of month so anyone who can share some insight on what to look for as far as ordering to make the job easier (ex nonfile fit piston rings,etc) would be appreciated

 

There are a million 383 builds documented online with parts lists and dyno results.
Study some of those to see combos that work ; someone else has done all the hard work and there is no need to re-invent the wheel
You don't need the " same" parts; just equiv heads ( port size ) and cam ( lift / dur specs)
Too many think by throwing a random selection of parts together they can make something that works
Many come back on here severely disappointed

Suggestions given OP's budget?

 

We won't touch Eagles.Too many headaches.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-162111/overview/

I'd go with those or something equivilent. I like Dart's heads, also. Supposedly Summit's are supposed to be good heads (I think someone mentioned they are/were technically RHS heads if I recall correctly? Maybe it was one of the Summit techs I spoke with briefly.. I'm not sure on this one; I've just heard they're decent)


Mak, you need to think hard on the eagle rotating assembly. if you think you're saving coin now you're going to be upset when you get your balancing bill. Chances are you would've been able to afford something nice once they get done balancing it out and working with it. I specifically remember that conversation with several shops local to here in the STL area because they all said the same thing. Call around locally with your machine shops and ask what they say about Eagle's stuff if you're still unsure. Looks like a good deal until you have hidden costs because of quality control. Not such a good deal anymore after that.

Ordering parts before you do your research is generally not a good idea. Are you implying you ordered parts before looking things up? What are the "previous order items"?

 

Not all clearance"Broom" items hit the Competition products web site.You have to call them and see if they have what your looking for.The last 383 Howards Track Smart crank we bought was normally $699 and we got it for I think $400.That isn't sufficiently more than many of the cheaper cranks and we got tons more in a crank that will take anything we'll ever throw at it.I am including a example of a Howards crank for you to read the spec's,but I am suggesting you might find a price different than this one in the Track Smart series that isn't listed.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/H...nfo/CPX353757/

I don't like being locked into kits because the pricing has to include weak links in the parts.

So what we did on this 383 was to "cherry pick" components from a number of different brand names.Not the most expensive,but not the cheapest either.Middle of the road.

Scat Stroker clearanced ARP 5.7 rods that are press fit.This press fit are a important point.The full floaters don't add anything to power output.Their main function is for race application where pistons swaps are more common.So if a full floater is used for the street it allows for the rod bushing to wear and is another part to be concerned with over long mileage situations.

I-Con pistons which have off set pins to limit cold piston slap.

The Howards crank is a internal balance and depending on the bob wt used some might need metal added and some don't.We checked the one we got and it checked out as stated by Competition Products and more. Definitely a big bang for your buck.

We bought Kings bearings mainly because the haft shells material and the way they are build give a perfectly round bearing so with the Howards crank you don't have to deal with haft shells to get the clearances you want.

Lastly stay way for the low tension race mm ring sets.There sealing abilities are not as good as the standard sizes for a long term high mileage street applications.

Alittle common sense,a appreciation for you get what you pay for and to look at the parts list in kits will go a long way towards a long lasting build.

 

thanks for all the help guys....im gonna have to rethink my plans on this build...always contemplated for years but i think ill still wait on this

appreciate all ur feedback

 

expect a back order on most of the rotating assemblies from jegs and summit on scat and eagle. Call the manufacture directly as they will give a more realistic time frame.
Read Eagle's crank specs a 2% difference is acceptable for internal balancedar cranks so it still has to be balanced at the machine shop.
Also shop around most big companies price match.


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

 

not yet im still truely debating this issue...i started to take the engine out and start this as a winter project but now getting mixed feelings about it.....i never rebuilt a bottom end yet so i was hoping this would be the project for that...im stuck right now building 383 or building up my tpi first with just heads cam etc

as far as eagle products i figure that was a start until i new more about the better quality products....i just noticed eagle had an internal balanced kit with dished pistons to match my compression wishes

thank you for ur input ill be researching even more on eagle products plus what ill be ordering for black fri/cyber mon(in case there maybe sales or promos)

 

heads budget was around a 1000 bucks wanted alluminum...appreciate feedback and will cont reading 383 articles as well thanks for ur help and feedback

 

wow didnt know this would be severely disappointed if i had to have this balanced after my goal was to avoid a machine shop....thank u

thanks to all!!! i thought i was ready but will need to think about this extremely hard before i act on it the end of the month...

my ultimate goal: learning

thank u guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Depends on if you're considering by price or by cost.

 

Well I can only try.......................Read this again"There are not any deals,anything cheap is just that!!!. Cheap parts!!!.

NOW get up and bang your head against the nearest wall,come back and re-read the above,and go back and repeat banging your head against the wall until it sinks it.

 

Just put together my 383 using the Summit 350/383 4 bolt main block. All in all I think it was a good deal. It cost me more 10 years ago to have my stock block machined for the 383. I checked all the measurments and they all came out with in remanufactured specs. The only issue I had was that my older Scat 383 crankshaft, when I went to install it the rear counter weight hit the block at the oil pan rail. I would assume that a newer internally balance crankshaft this probably will not happen. Also the block doesn't come with ARP main bolts. ARP recommends that you have the block line bored with the bolts you intend to use and around here that would cost about $200. I measured the main caps with the stock bolts and with the ARP's and was comfortable using the ARP's which I would highly recommend. Also one thing to remember if you order the block and have it shipped to your house be sure to have a way to get it out of a semi trailer, because they'll want to charge you $60 to use the tommy lift. I got the driver to do it for $20 cash. My engine runs great it's 11:1, AFR heads, custom comp roller cam.

 

The deal with buying an already prepped and assembled short block, vs taking a core to a machine shop and getting it done, is this:

At some "rebuilder" that's doing like a million of them at a time, they take ALL the rods and throw em into a *******; stack ALL the blocks onto a pallet; stand ALL the cranks up on end; and run em ALL through all the processes that they go through. Cleaning, honing, sizing, grinding, boring, WHATEVER. THey don't pay the slightest attention to which one they're working on, they just KEEP WORKING.

Meanwhile, at yerbasic local-ish shop where you drop off your stuff and pick it back up in a coupla weeks, they take YOUR block and put it on their boring bar, where they just got through boring some Cummins diesel; so they have to completely re-setup the boring bar. Then they gotta take your block off and completely re-setup the bar for the Hyundai 4-cyl right behind it. They gotta keep up with YOUR block, how much time they spent on it, what steps they took so they can charge you right, what parts they used, and so on.

At the "rebuilder", they're powering through rods, cranks, and whatever all else, the same way. All the same, one right after another, they start at 7 AM and just keep plowing through em until 4:30, and they come out of one HUGE box and go back into another. They set the machine up ONCE, measure the first few that come out to make sure it's right, push the button, and sit back and watch em fall out; measure one, or several, or even ALL to make sure they're right, but they basically don't have to touch the machine unless it starts screwing up.

Are you getting the picture?

THen they take these pallets of blocks, ******** of rods, stacks of cranks, and so on; one from column A, one from column B, 8 from column C, and bolt em up. Not paying THE SLIGHTEST BIT of attention to where they came from, what they had to do to em to get em to that point, and so on. Don't have to change the socket on the main bolt torque wrench, don't have to adjust the ring compressor, don't even have to crack the "spec" book; just slam right through em.

Meanwhile, the local shop is ... yeah.

Now: at the end of the day, who has less money tied up in the finished product? And, did that extra money actually buy anything? That is, is either one inherently "better" than the other? I doubt it... at that point, you're down to whoever had the better machine, watched it more closely, and stuff like that. If the local guy is good, and the "rebuilder" is equally good, you'll end up with an equally "good" product from either. Cores are luck of the draw; your core is no better (or worse), on average, than any other core.

THAT'S why buying a "crate" assembly can be ALOT cheaper than doing it the one-off way, if all else (specifically, the quality of the work) is equivalent.

 

So, Sofa,
What do you do if you want a 400 sbc for the street? Unless you go to Dart for a new SHP 400 long block, there haven't been any new 400 sbc's from Chevy since 1980.

 

What did I miss??. The first post from the O/P didn't say anything about a 400 nor did Sofa.
Tell ya the truth I am damm tired of the idea of crate engines and loosing labor time fixing the clearances from their screw-ups.Goodwrench as a brand sells it's self but long ago GM farmed that out and the QC has suffered.Do you really think Jeg's,Summit,or anyone else does that work in-house??. I think you would be wrong.
Sofa is right.Build your own short block/engine and control what goes into it.

In case your going to say you did what and it worked out,well how long ago was that and remember you only giving one example vs now as a single purchase in a pool that is much larger as a sample.A crap shoot if you get lucky.

Soooo we check everyone of these crate "deals" and it is getting harder and harder to find one that is right.

So Sofa's right(OMG did I just say that).

 

Go wash your mouth out with soap!!

Seriously, the whole "crate" deal has 2 sides to it: price, and quality.

I spoke to the matter of price. I said, a mass-producer will ALWAYS be able to offer a lower price, for equal quality.

Well guess what though... quality ISN'T ALWAYS equal. What you MIGHT get from your local guy in exchange for a higher price, is attention to detail, customizing what is done based on your desired outcome, the ability to have an informational discussion about what you want and are willing to pay for and what work is of value (or not) to your project, and such as that. To that point, Gary is right. (now I've got to do the same thing)

Each approach has risks and rewards. Gotta pick which are important to YOU, and always remember that if you pick a reward, the RISK automatically comes with it.

I didn't say anything about 400s specifically. However, I haven't found myself in a situation where, for what I wanted to do, a stock 400 block wasn't adequate or couldn't be found. Sure I can see where it could happen, just hasn't happened to me yet.

I build all my own, but since I have no machine shop, I find THE BEST local guy I possibly can. TO ME, it's MORE THAN "worth it". Haven't bought a "crate" motor in 35 yrs, and even then, that one time in my life, it was only because somebody I knew had one that had been sitting around, and it was 1st of the year (personal property i.e. inventory tax time), and was cutting a REAL STRONG deal for it just to get rid of it and not have to pay ANOTHER year's tax on it. It was strictly a stock replacement situation though. (work truck kind of a deal)

 

Good points thank u tgo experts....first ill do baby step build with heads cam etc and build 350. Sorry to waste a thread but needed advise ... in summary more feel build ur engine and use machine shops in the process for 383 builds...makes sense vs mass produced 383 blocks...thanks for all the expertise and feedback!!!