Hey guys! Been a while. I used to have a 91 v6 camaro and was a semi-active member of this board for a while, but got a 4th gen and haven't been around for a few years. Anyways on to my situation.

I'm currently a college super sophomore. I have a cam only 2002 Z28 that's in really nice shape but it's an auto...which I hate...I also have about 5000 dollars of student loan debt.


Anyways i'm considering being a little responsible and selling the z28(should bring 11k give or take), paying off the loans, and picking up something to tinker with little by little over the next couple of years.

My goals are a car with:
A good manual so 89+ c4's for the 6 speed, or a thirdgen with a t56 swap

A "fun" amount of power on a budget. Not setting any speed records here, but something with some good torque for playing around town. I am coming from a 395rwhp ls1 so lets say...325 or so rear wheel.

At least decent highway mileage capability through the 6 speed(high teens low 20s minimum)

At least decent handling and ride quality for curvy road cruising and around town commuting

A nice sound...and lots of sound deadening to stop rattles

pic to break up this novel:


If I go thirdgen I would like to find a clean 305/5 speed iroc that I can drive while putting together a nice carbed 350 with a budget blower, or a 383, or something like that and an lt1 t56. The problem here is finding one that's not ragged out for a couple grand leaving me drivetrain building money. Seems like the clean thirdgens are all posted with very high price tags nowadays.

The pros to a thirdgen build are:
I LOVE a clean thirdgen. Maybe my favorite car ever to be honest...something about them idk what it is.
Cheap parts(not just cheap drivetrain)
Simple to work on? Been since I was a teen since i've touched one but I image they're easy.
Cheap to buy

The cons are:
No 350/manual combo so I either get a 350 auto car, build that motor and do a manual swap, or get a 305/5 speed car and drop in an entire new drivetrain.
Weak rear end
Hard to find a clean one
I'm sure there are more

another pic:


So my other option is to grab an 89-91 c4 with an l98/6 speed/irs. Then build a motor(same as above) and drop it in in front of the already stout(I think) drivetrain.

The pros:
don't have to dick with anything but motor
lighter
factory 6 speed
irs
better?? interior
more likely to not be ragged out
even easier to work on??

The cons:
More expensive up front
I don't care as much for the c4 style when compared to a 3rd gen z or iroc
more expensive non-driveline parts
i'm sure there is more

So with 6k up front and a little more that can be invested here and there over time which would you choose to meet the above goals?


Another catch here is that currently although I have a DD truck, and a bike i'm working with an apartment and a carport not a garage so I really don't want to get caught up in a position where the car will be down for long periods of time. I think this lends an advantage to the vette, because I don't have to take the whole drivetrain out. I could slowly upgrade the l98(or a guess the lt1 should I decide to go a little newer but i'm reserved about it) in the complex in the car, while still driving it on weekends and what not.

Honestly i'll strip and build an engine in my apartment living room I don't really care haha but getting a complete engine/trans out an apartment front door, down a flight of stairs, and into a car in the parking lot is not something I want to do.

Sorry for the novel guys...where is a lot more going on in my head as far as pros and cons, likes and dislikes, biases, etc...but I can't put them all down in type, so i'll just wrap this up.

 

If you want a tinker toy, I'd go for the F-body. If you want something that can be driven and enjoyed in mostly stock form and still hold its own, I'd get a 91+ C4 with the LT1.

I'd never bother with a TPI C4. TPI C4 vs TPI F-body, I'd just go with the F-body every time. It looks better, and the TPI is such a huge power bottleneck that even a 305 TPI vs a vette 350TPI isnt gonna make much difference in the long term as far as upgrades. The TPI will hold you back til you get rid of it.

And the money it costs to replace a TPI system with an aftermarket system is 1/4 to 1/2 the price of a Gen III+ swap. LS1's can be had with T56's in the $3-4k range...

Anything, the F-body has more potential I think, the C4 is a much better car out of hte box, but if comparing TPI to TPI, Just go f-body.

And in the end, I know this sounds vain, but just pick whichever one excites you more. For me it will be the F-bodies all day long.

Parts are not cheap for either when it comes to upgrades. TPI costs a lot of money to make fast and its still fundamentally cirppled. But replacement parts for hte F-body are probably going to be a LOT cheaper than replacement/maintenance parts for the C4.

And for the record, $6k for an IROC will get you a VERY, VERY nice one. One you probably wont want to cobble up with engine swaps. Now $3k will get you a respectable looking IROC (maybe closer to 3.5k) and you may have enough left to put an LS1 in it...

 

You'll get 10-11 grand for your car. You can find a 120-150,000 mile t56/ls1 4th gen for 5-6 grand if you look around. Best of both worlds lol.

 

I see where you're coming from. I would much rather have the camaro in the long run, but I hate to have it sitting a lot in the next couple years without a garage. The vette would be more friendly to my needs in the next couple years.

I don't plan to really keep the tpi longer term for either. I'll prolly go carb.

 

Not really. I'm pretty done with the ls world for now. I would rather go back and build a basic carb motor.

I hate the idea that I can't get into my 4th gen and do a lot of the work myself efficiently as a novice mechanic, and that every change I make required a trip up to the tuners for a re-tune. I just don't dig that so much on my budget.

On a restricted budget I can tinker a lot more with a carb small block than an ls setup.

I also don't really like the 4th gen style. I bought mine to go fast...after 3 years realized i'd rather have style.

 

"Tinker toy" is a good word to describe what i'd like for the car, but I'd like to be able to have it in running condition most of the time. Like I said I can't really store major parts before they are installed such as engines and transmissions. I always am in a mode of constant improvement with my cars though so I would always be tinkering with the car. Upgrading parts here and there both performance and appearance.

Like I said if I had a garage I think this would be a no brainer, but I like the idea I can leave the majority of the vette's drivetrain alone.

Anyone have opinions on lt1 vettes?

 

So if the end goal is to drop in a carbed 350 and a t56 would it save me a lot of headaches to find a carbed 5 speed iroc? Like an 87 or prior.

In other words if I plan on yanking it all out...is it going to make a big difference starting with a carbed car vs starting with a tpi car?

 

If thats what you want its a lot easier to get an 89-92 F-body with a 5 speed. First of all they were just made better later in the run. But I think 89 is the year they switched to electronic speedometers. That means all you need is an Dakota Digital SGI-5 box to run your stock speedo instead of dealing with an expensive analog->digital converter setup.

Also you'll probably get more hood clearance with a Camaro than vette or a firebird. And cowls are probably the easiest to get for the Camaros too.

 

The only thing good the Corvette has going for it is the fact you don't have to pump money into the rearend when you start putting go-fast parts in. Everything else for them, however... $.

 

Yeah. I'm for sure leaning towards a camaro. My biggest thing is the c4 styling. Not a fan.

 

first i would just decide what you want i personally would shop around for a clean straigh boby such as there are a couple of on the camaro for sale section of this board right now and buy a t56 and roller cam 350 frshen up the bottom end before install and put in it then you can attain your power goals without pulling the motor the power and mileage you stated you were looking for is well within the 350 cid range with a good head cam inake carb setup and even easier if you put some cash into bottom end upgrades beforehand which you are ina position to be able to do
also since you mention you are in school have you thought of signing up at a local J. C. for a wekkend auto collision/auto mech. class the course(s) would be cheap and give you a garage tools and knowledgeable help to fix up your car so it would loosen your restraints more than enough to offset the costs probably

 

So rule out TPI or LT1 too because they will require the same tuning as an LS1.

 

Having owned a few C4's myself, both the Dana36 and Dana44 are absolutely worthless crap rear ends.

OP:

The C4 will nickel and dime you to death. Even if you get a really nice late LT1 car, they have electrical issues (BCM failure = the suck), crappy rear ends, a clunky transmission (Yes I had a ZF6), and the LT1 really was an epic failure of an engine. I mean think about it, GM ran the SBC platform from what 1955 to late 90s in trucks and full size sedans, yet the LT1 ran for what 5 years before being replaced with the LS platform that is still in production today.


-- Joe

 

Thanks for the heads up on the electrical issues and other things. I have been looking and leaning away from C4's

 

I really think i'd like to do carb. I don't think i'm ready to tune and I'm done with all the tuners anywhere near me.

 

With school, work, and military obligations I don't think I could fit in doing weekend classes. Although I may end up moving in with a buddy who is a mechanic and has a 1 car garage we would share at the apartment which is full of tools, an air compressor, etc so that could be a really good opportunity.

 

I'd definitely try driving nice examples of both. Every car out there is going to have its good points and bad, both logically and in terms of how they feel out on the roadway and how you feel when you drive it... one may look good on paper but you might fall in love with the other out on the street. Unless you have a specific application which is dominated by one car that's really good at it (Miatas for autox, C4's and 944's for road racing, Fox bodies for drag, 240SX for drift) then it just comes down to what you like and how easily you can achieve your goals out of that car with your pocketbook. For cost efficiency in this case, InfernalVortex nailed it. Corvettes are great out of the box but they do generally have a higher degree of engineering than f-bodies and use exotic, expensive and harder to come by parts than your standard issue Camaro/ Firebird. OTOH, the Firebirds and Camaros are pretty simple bases, the aftermarket for them is pretty good and they're a lot of fun to work on and most things are laid out fairly logically and easily accessible. If you're craigslist and swap meet proficient and wait for sales and coupon codes with online vendors you can build a third gen for peanuts. The only thing that's really difficult is the T-56- there's not much of a way around the price on those, though you have a massive amount of options for power, handling, and rear end setups.

There are lots of variables though outside the logic; a well maintained G92 Camaro with the standard third gen mods (exhaust, KONI's , SFC's) will make for stiff competition # wise and feel MUCH better than a ragged out TPI C4; an LT1 C4 will outperform a TBI 305 Camaro in all areas and may feel better but be more expensive to modify. All comes down to driving them and doing your homework until you find a deal on one that suits your needs, taste, wallet, and driving style.