crafty_z28

Well, after a looong time of searching and searching, and most people seeming to think the 87 carb'd motors were in fact roller motors. Kind of odd seeing how GM decided to place the new style heads on the LG4 in '87. But in fact, it is a tappet cam!

And now I know I can't just be saying things on here without proof. soo.. PICS!!

Getting ready to pull!


This is the LG4 from my '87

And the LB9 I picked up just in case. but I'll keep the LG4

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Observe though , your block has provision for the roller cam ; just that the bosses for the spider hold down bolts were not machined at the factory.
Probably the same for the roller cam retainer bolts behind the cam gear ?

Damon

Crafty- those 87s are a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get. I had an 87 TBI engine that was also supposed to be roller cam.... it wasn't. Looked just like yours

I think the factory threw together whatever they had laying around the joint that year. No rhyme or reason.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

My take on it was they went to the "new" 1 pce RMS block casting in '87 but only did the machining for the roller cam
where required
or as in the case of of a '94 truck TBI engine I have , just put a flat tappet cam in a fully prepped '638 roller block

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Doesn't surprise me....they used v belts with serpentine that year. Seems they couldn't decide on anything!!

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I remember well the 87 that I had back in 1994 had the washer pump on the side of the fluid tank. It was built in late 87. My current 87 has it in the wiper motor housing and it was built in early 87. It seems like they were in the middle of changing a few things that year. Im amazed that they were still using the LG4 by 1987.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is the car's VIN stamped on the block pad?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

+1 The first question that came to my mind.


I always assumed that all 87 engines were roller blocks with Self Aligning rocker arms till I was messing with some 87 TPI heads and learned that they (at least some) used non-SA rockers. However; I've never seen a non-roller 87 block.........



Welllllllllll,....... the 85-87 still used a "V" belt pulley system. The alternator belt simply changed from a true "V" belt to a ribbed belt. That change also changed the design of the WP pulley and crank pulley those years. There was still a seperate belt required for each accessory.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

What year is this F-Body setup?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Based on the pulleys & upper Alt Bracket,... 87.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Yep! Looks just like mine.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Yes, many belts, but technically not any SERPENTINE belts as the pulleys all run inside the belt, where a serpentine belt runs pulleys on both sides of the belt.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

'86 & '87 used that set-up.

However, I do know the '86 carb and '87 TPI, at least, used different electrical connectors (for AC, alternator). But, I don't know if '86 carb was the same as '86 TPI, or '87 carb the same as '87 TPI.

Still waiting to hear if the car's VIN # was stamped on the block.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I know one thing, Changing my water pump was no fun. Hopefully I'll never have to do that again.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Well even if it's not the original LG4 to the car, it's clearly an 87+ block. Only thing it needs is to get the holes for the spider drileld and tapped and probably the holes for the cam retainer plate drilled and tapped. My 350 block doesnt even have the dog bone perches machined the way this one does, but it's clearly an 87+ block with the pedestals.

My 350 block:


You can see the difference on the flats above the tappet guides.

Also, crafty, I hope you got all those bolts away from the intake ports by now.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, but if it's not the original LG4 engine, this whole thread is moot.

I had an '87 LB9 complete engine in my early 3rd gen days. I pulled the intake, intending to port the heads. I discovered they were two different heads, even though both were of the '87-up intake bolt pattern. Posting the casting #s here on TGO, I was informed I had one LG4/LB9 head, and one LO3 head. So much for porting them. I pulled the heads, and further discovered I had a .030"-over 305 with roller cam/lifters, dished pistons - no, LB9s never came with dished pistons (we're talking full dish, deep enough that there weren't any valve reliefs). But, it started life as an LB9. (I later discovered it had cracks in the lifter valley, which made the whole thing scrap.)

It's more likely that a 27 year old car has a replacement engine in it than it is that it still has the original untouched engine in it.

tom3

Kind of looks like the lifters set deeper in the block too. Rollers might be longer/taller? I'd suspect the choice of roller or flat lifters might be an emissions deal.

Damon

The lifter bores are deeper on a factory roller (capable) block. However, you can drop flat tappet lifter & cam combo into them and they will function just fine. They look a little odd sitting WAY down in the lifter bore, but they function perfectly. I've done this a couple of times myself. So did the factory, as has been demonstated in this thread.

crafty_z28

As far as I know, it's the original block... I may just have to try and get a roller cam in there. I was going to swap it for an LB9, but if the bottom looks good, may try that..
And yea, the bolts are put away lol

crafty_z28

As far as I know, it's the original block... I may just have to try and get a roller cam in there. I was going to swap it for an LB9, but if the bottom looks good, may try that..
And yea, the bolts are put away lol

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

If GM had no issue running the L05's with flat tappets, then I dont see why they wouldnt run the LG4's with flat tappets, especially since the LG4 is an engine that's been around since the late 70s with that configuration.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Then why don't you confirm it?

Even then, do you know for a fact that no one has ever opened up this engine? Maybe replaced the cam?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

CAFE, that's why.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That may be why they axed the LG4 in 88 for the full rollout of the L03. Makes sense to me.

crafty_z28

I plan on it. I'm currently stuck up north in the NWT at work for a bit, but the plan is to take the motor apart for a refresh anyhow, so i"ll be sure to check the casting numbers and get a good look at the camshaft.

And I'm 99.9% sure the motor has never been touched, the car came to me 100% bone stock and in pretty rough shape from sitting for soooo long. lol didn't even look like anything other than an oil change was ever done...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

We're not talking casting number here. The VIN is stamped on the machined pad on the front passenger side of the block (same surface as the head gasket).

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Bone stock maybe but; that doesn't mean factory original; Gotta' be carefull when you call ANYTHING "100% !!

I'm 99% the motor HAS been touched, I don't know about the internals,.... but that crank pulley sure looks like a pre-85 "true" V belt crank pulley. The Air Cleaner / Wheels are obviously aftermarket, the intake doesn't appear to be stock & niether is the fitting on the china-wall. It's also pretty clear that there's no way those are 25+ year old intake bolts.

I'm not saying the engine is this-or-that, but you'll need a pic of the (windshield) VIN and 1 pic of the VIN pad on the block is about the only "proof" people are gonna' accept.

rusty vango

87 was the introduction of the new block casting. but not all were drilled/tapped. GM used what cams they had on hand ,I believe .I have found flat tappet cams in 92 vintage roller blocks from the factory

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Okay, let's try one more time...

Self-aligning rockers didn't come until 1988.

Roller lifters were used in passenger car engines starting in 1987 to help meet government CAFE standards.

Flat tappet lifters were used in truck in block castings that were the same as passenger car block castings - i.e., roller-capable castings. Note that trucks didn't have to meet CAFE standards, therefore the factory saved the expense of the roller lifters in truck engines. Sometimes the roller provisions were machined/drilled/tapped in such truck engines, sometimes they weren't.

Unless you have owned an '87 LG4 passenger car since new, and/or have ALL service records from it, drawing conclusions based on disassembly 27 years later is not reliable.

Damon

Five7kid- I'll reitterate what I said, above. Some flat tappet engines slipped through in 87. I've seen it myself on known-factory engines (in my case, an 87 TBI engine in an Camaro). It was a trasition year and nothing was set in stone.

Nobody believed me then, and apparently everyone is poo-poo'ing the possibility in this case, but it happened.

I don't know what to tell you beyond that other than "the assembly line isn't God" (it's not perfect).

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Just a thing,...... gotta' see proof.

Never even heard of an 87 with serpentine and TB in a Camaro, I'm assuming that it was serpentine since they would have had to make a very custom harness for TBI and V-belt. Maybe there was such a thing; but I will not never believe it till I see proof. ( I gotta' ask; what was the VIN on that thing ?? )

In this case a very simple picture of the block pad and the Windshield VIN is proof enough and I'm sure it will get posted here if it exists. Honestly,..... So far there isn't even proof shown here that the car is even an 87. ( just sayin' ! ) It's just as easy to bolt a set of centerbolt heads on as is it to bolt down an intake - and that intake was NOT factory sealed.

I'm not tryin' to be a thorn or and certainly not calling anyone a lier. I don't know it all and even after 20 years under these hoods I still learn new stuff all the time. But I don't mind a healthy argument and if someone makes a claim that goes against the 'norm'........ I'll ask for proof.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The point the OP was trying to make (at least the impression I'm gettting) was that '87 LG4s had flat tappet cams. There is plenty of evidence to counter that.

Does that mean a few didn't "slip through" with flat tappet cams? I'm not saying that didn't happen.

But to say ALL '87 LG4s got flat tappet cams because this one engine has them is problematic because: 1) you first have to have reasonable evidence that it came from the factory that way, and 2) even if it was factory flat-tappet equipped, that doesn't prove all '87 LG4s were.

crafty_z28

well now i'm really damn curious. I may have to change the thread title if i can. Like I said, when I get home I'll post a picture of the numbers on the block and car (thanks for correcting me on casting vs vin on block five7kid)

as for the intake, that was me, like I said, when i got the car, the motor appeared to be all original. I tossed on some edelbrock stuff I had from my last Camaro.

Seems like I may have jumped the gun on assuming that just because mine is looking like a tappet cam, that all of them are... I was just soo tired of searching and searching for an answer, that I figured I would share my findings.

anyhow I'll still post up my findings with MY LG4, but i guess it comes down to just taking apart what you have to really find out.. shoulda bought an '88... lol

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I agree with your statement, I worked on a numbers matching LG4 sitting in a 1987 Elcamino that was a factory roller. It also had 081 heads on it. It had a solid 3" of sludge on top of the lifter spider and was trash. Swapped a roller cam L05 in its place.

Its hard to see the lifter spider in all that mess, but its definately there.

LowBird87

My original 87 firebird se lg4 was flat tappet. For sure original motor..