So I want to do a V6 to V8 swap in my '89 Camaro RS, and I've been wanting a L98 installed, all the way up to the point I heard that LT1's are supposed to be better (newer, better). I was wondering what exactly is better and how much HP could be squeezed out of an LT1? I know that with upgrades you could squeeze 350 perhaps even 400 (without turbochargers) out of a L98, what about an LT1? And will the LT1 fit/bolt/plug as nicely? I'm going to have to do a full conversion anyways, so would I be better of going for the LT1 instead here? That'd be the bigger question. Also, am I going to be more likely to spend a lot more money upgrading the LT1 or wouldn't it matter much?

 

IF you want newer (better) skip the LT1 and just do an LS series engine.

otherwise a good old reliable SBC if you want to be more economical.

 

Economical in terms of upgrading it? Since surely old SBC's can't be as economical to put in a daily driver, right? Aren't LS series a lot more expensive in purchase and upgrading? Besides, are the mileage and power gains definitely more noticeable with the LS series engine? How much HP should I be able to expect from one of those, fully upgraded? Thanks for your reply by the way.

Edit: Which LS engine (with upgrades) would be best with a budget of let's say around 6000 - 7000 USD?
Edit2: I see that these blocks are pretty expensive and that the budget couldn't even cover upgrades most likely.
Wouldn't it be much more cost efficient to reach 400+HP with an L98 TPI or an LT1?
Another thing to consider would the that I'd prefer to do the V8 swap first and upgrade overtime, since I'll have to save up to reach the budget aforementioned first and it'd be best to have a V8 as soon as possible and do upgrades over time to keep improving it bit by bit.
LS series engines are so damn sweet though, but also so damn expensive..

 

400+ hp from an L98: too difficult; I'd skip that option.

400+ hp from an LT1 or LSx: piece of cake. As much as I like and know the LT1, if you're swapping anyway and if prices over there are about the same for either option, I'd go LSx; the aftermarket support is bigger.

Gen1 SBC covers a lot of options! What are your plans for fueling? If you're OK with running a carb, then yes this can be a cheap option to an easy 400+ hp.

The best choice will depend on what resources you have at your disposal and what deals you can find over there.

 

Thank you for your reply! Trying to get some fuel economy so carb is pretty much off of the menu. Am I right that I should be able to get a decent LSx engine for about 1000 - 2000 USD in the States or are they a lot more expensive? Any other pro's and cons when it's LT1 vs. LSx? The LSx seems to start off with slightly less horsepower but of course that shouldn't matter much in the long run. Which one is more cost efficient to upgrade for example and which one is most capable of being upgraded well past 400 or even 500 (if possible) HP?

 

The LS engine has tons of potential. The factory cylinder heads outflow any other SBC factory heads. They make LS swap motor mounts and headers for third gens also.. But I would not consider this an entry level swap.. it will me more expensive than a Gen 1 SBC. besides with the right parts a Gen 1 SBC still makes plenty of power too.

LT1 was a transitional motor until the LS engine was completed so I would not waste my time.

A carb is fine for either platform if that's all you can afford for now, an overdrive transmission will do more for fuel economy and a not so heavy right foot !

 

Thanks for your reply, can you perhaps give me a good example of what can be achieved with a Gen 1 SBC (in HP) and with what kind of budget?

Also, LS1 engines don't seem all that expensive, however they're also not inexpensive and it'll take me longer to obtain one, but how about them? And should I expect to spend more upgrading them than on upgrading the others?

 

I swear to God, if I read one more "400+ hp is nigh impossible with a Gen1 sbc with EFI" post, I'm going to flip my lid.

 

Take a stock shortblock L98, add afr 195's shaved down 58-60cc and a cam and a stealth ram efi intake or similar and you have a 450-475 hp combo all day long.

Thats 360-400 whp without much effort.

Sbc can make power with efi. Dont let anyone kid you but starting with L98 you need to replace everything top end. Lt1 can atleast reuse intake and send heads out to get ported

LT1 has ok heads stock and can make 330-340's whp cam only. Ported heads and intake 380-420 is easily doable stock bottom end

You build internals for either skys the limit although a lt1 is limited to around 396-401 cubes while aftermarket sbc can reach 472

 

So you are saying that the L98 should be just fine for upgrading? But which one would be more cost efficient to upgrade and how do they compare in end results after being fully upgraded?

 

How I see it.

GEN I SBC can be made to do anything with enough $$$. Drop in swap
Plenty of aftermarket support

GEN II (LT1 ) ditto above ,but less aftermarket support and limitations as noted above.

LSX. Starting from a higher base Hp ,is easier to get more Hp from but not a drop in swap and wiring mods needed.

So your choice comes down to how much you are prepared to spend and what can you do yourself without having to pay someone ?

 

I just realized that with Gen I you mean the L98.. right..? Heh, gets confusing easily since I'm still very new to all of this.

I'm an automotive engineering student and prepared to do all of the work myself, I've got a job four days a week in a garage but don't get paid too much so I'm trying to keep expenses at a limit. Electronics aren't my strong side yet and wiring mods sound pretty complicated to me, I'd prefer everything to just work without having to screw around with them so much.

Guess L98 will be my best option after all then, don't you guys think? Donor car will likely be an C4 so it should all be pretty plug and play if I'm right.

 

Start studying

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...swap-read.html


Some parts on a Vette engine need swapping

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-l98-swap.html

Any non 3rd Gen auto trans you will need to swap on a 3rd Gen tailshaft housing

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...091-post6.html

There are aftermarket crossmembers available that have the mount for the factory torque arm (that is mounted to the rear of the trans stock )
that allow fitting a non 3rd gen trans inc TH30 and TH400

 

Yes the L98 is nothing more than a Gen 1 SBC.. If you are using a C4 as the donor car then you have all the parts you need.. (TPI, ECM, pulleys etc.)

but at that point IMHO I would build the C4 ,it's a better car.

 

The C4 is built and running good but it's being taken apart for parts by a garage here.

 

Depends

Basic low 12's car? LT1 cam only does it all day long.

Use factory thirdgen wiring and ecm to tune? Stay sbc L98 for no wiring swapping issues.

However may i suggest if you arent going to tune it yourself get the eficonnection 24x 411 ecm swap parts kit for either lt1 or l98 and have a shop that can tune ls1's tune it. Not many places tune lt1 or l98 tpi anymore so kinda forced to learn yourself or change systems

If you want to go 11's and 400 whp or so, Lt1 still has slight advantage because you can have heads ported and reuse intake. L98 needs heads and new intake so its gonna cost slightly more.

All out build, heads cam internals for cubes etc, sbc takes over because more choices available and more cubes available. But a ported stock casting LT1 383-396 can go very fast when done right.

Add forced induction or spray? Then toss up. Both have great potential

 

Not sure if anyone offering advice noticed "Location: The Netherlands".

In my opinion, when the starting point is V6, there isn't much difference in the effort required between L98, LT1, and LS1. That goes for the mechanical as well as the electrical work required (unless you're starting with a same-year f-body L98 donor vehicle - then it's all just unbolt and transfer).

The main difference is exhaust will require some custom fabrication for LS1, while L98 & LT1 can basically be done with off-the-shelf bolt-in stuff.

 

Sure did. That's why I added this (I should have boldfaced it because it's the most important consideration for him IMO):
"The best choice will depend on what resources you have at your disposal and what deals you can find over there."

 

I agree.

 

Wondering from that comment what set you off. I didn't see anybody say that in this thread.
??

 

Can possibly get my hands on stuff from a C4 donor car here, nice TPI engine (for around 1750 EUR / 2400 USD), but I'm still not entirely sure what to go for. And by the way, I can get stuff from the U.S. just the same, just add a little more than 500 dollars to the price for shipping costs, we're still living on the same planet after all.

 

The only problem with the l98 is the intake it is designed for tq. Change the cam and add a stealthram, mini ram,superram and your good swap the crappy heads and your golden.

 

Sweet, thanks! Gives me more confidence in the L98 engine.

 

This comment directly says that it is too difficult to reach 400 hp with a Gen 1 small block, and implies that it can only be done effectively with a carb. Total BS, with no offense intended towards the comment poster. LS and LT series engines are much EASIER to use to reach that horsepower goal, but really not a huge difference in the small block once you start tearing into things like heads, intakes, cam, internals, etc.

 

Okay, this just got somewhat more confusing again, but certainly thank you for your input. Anyone perhaps has some good references on upgrading the L98 TPI? Possibly, with a budget in mind, if there is such a thing?

 

No, it doesn't. Either you can't read or I'm just stupid.
When I see L98, I see TPI. Did an L98 come with anything other than a TPI intake on it??
Gen1.....easy 400 hp all day long WITHOUT THE TPI INTAKE. Carb or injection, I don't care, it's easy. Carb is usually cheaper, that's all.

Sorry Renier if I confused. But no, it won't be cheap or easy to achieve 400 hp if you stay with the TPI intake. Staying with the Gen1 shortblock however is not a handicap.

 

Might be back to the idea of saving up for an LS(x) engine, due to mileage and great amounts of HP stock. However, I wonder if the extra amount of work and the extra amount of time waiting will be worth it, it'll take a lot more work and I'd have to save up for really long and in the meanwhile be stuck with the V6 and 140hp.

Edit: BTW, you'd suggest going with another injection system on the L98, 86LG4Bird? Might be a good idea indeed if it gets rid of the handicap.

 

It might be given how much you'll be paying for shipping back and forth. A whole motor and transmission assembly with a custom cam would definitely meet your goals on a nice used LS1 or LS2. I am not one to jump on the bandwagon but this is one of those cases where it might be worth the cost difference simply to cut down on unnecessary shipping constantly. You'll still need parts, but it won't be a huge piece together in comparison nickel and diming you.

 

Exactly

One thing you might want to consider is the ECM's in the 82-92 f-body's are quite old and sooner or later the correct EPROM's will be getting harder to get. Like mentioned in this thread there are kits to modify the original ECM's which is an additional cost you must consider. There's also aftermarket systems like FAST and DFI which will cost you a pretty penny as well. The LSx motors have the most modern electronic controls and they are flash programmable. From the start (factory) the LSx combo offers the best mileage for the most power than the older LT1 or L98 motors. Still, even with the LSx, you will be buying software to be able to tune (program) the ECM.

The best thing is to sit down and make a spread sheet on what it will take to swap to a L98 or LSx and compare the two options side by side. I have considered a few time dropping a 5.3L truck motor into one of my f-body's. I haven't looked into it yet but if I can bolt my M-20 up to one I might just do this for my 70 Z28. I just don't have the original block any more but I'd love to keep the rest of the drive line original.

 

I'm getting rid of my spare parts and will eventually be selling my current drivetrain if you want to save on shipping since everything's in Europe already. I have a 90 l98 long block from a c4 with 700r4, 96 lt1 built carb'd but still have all efi stuff, and the engine currently in my car is a 94 k1500 engine that was originally used just so the car could move but ran so good I left it in. I'm going to be selling my t56 also and probably 1 or 2 of my rear ends both 98+ rears one with 4.10s and one with 3.42s. I'm also in the process of stripping an 88 firebird that was a 305 car if you need anything for your swap.

 

^^THIS^^ is the kind of thing I was talking about in my last sentence of the original reply to you, Renier

 

This is just drivetrain stuff if he wants bigger brakes I also have the rear 98+brake set up, and the fron c4 brake discs calipers and carriers, justneed a modified spindle.

 

Sweet, thank you, guys! Will send mcgarnicle a PM to ask him about the details.