IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Hey guys, I figured I would put this topic out there to the group to see about getting some advice and input from you guys about my plans to take the car to the next level. I won’t have the budget to buy my new engine package this winter, but I am certain that right around this time next year, I’ll be ordering up the engine that this car needs. My plans are for a gen 1 style small block chevrolet with a modern efi setup on it. I will absolutely NOT be going with any type of LS style setup. I am uninterested, so please don’t mention LS to me. That is not the type of engine I want under the hood for a plethora of reasons.

Sorry this is a long post with lots of writing, but I’m just putting it all out there.
I am pretty dead set on the major components/features of the engine, and have been sourcing out crate engines and long blocks, across the net, as well as reading many forum posts, reviews, magazine articles, and product information. I want a Dart SHP block, forged crank and pistons, roller cam and rocker setup, great cylinder heads, topped with a Holley Sniper Efi system (or FiTech), and capable of taking 200 wet shots of N20 with ease(on a carb style plate). The goal is for naturally aspirated 500+ hp/tq at the flywheel, supplemented with the N20 on track days. Engine has to be relaible, and not just for racing.. I drive the car all over and it has to be able to handle 4+ hour long trips. I want something a little more than a 383, so I have been looking at 406, 421, 427, 434 cid packages.

Here is my top choice:
http://www.nyesautomotive.net/406_525hp_EFI.html
This is my second choice, however with the Efi instead of the carb setup in the link. http://enginefactory.com/434CSB575HP.htm
That company is very local to me here in NJ and I stopped by their shop last month to discuss broad details and even brought the car for them to look over.

I have several other similar engine options, but that is not the primary focus of this thread. What my goal is here, is to ask for some ideas/input on modifications and upgrades I can/should do to the car PRIOR to dropping in the engine.

In a nutshell, the car has a crate 350 longblock that I was stuck getting back in HS when I blew up the old 305. It is dead on reliable, but very underpowered. I have a “Pro Street” 700R4 transmission package from Dana at Pro Built Automatics and an Edge racing 2,600 rpm converter. Those were brand new as of October 2016. Unfortunately just October of this year, it started acting up on the 3-4 shift, so just this past Sunday I removed the transmission, and will be shipping it back to Dana for a refresh, which is covered under his 18 month warranty. The package was rated to 675 hp/tq, but I might maybe have him upgrade it to the 750 hp package. Maybe. The rear will be the weak point of the powertrain after the engine is done, but I can live with that until it blows, and get a 12 bolt from moser, strange or currie. It is currently the stock axle housing with 3.73 richmond gears and a posi unit.



The car has a S&W racing subframe connector kit welded in, along with their torque arm and its relocation mount. Fully adjustable front and rear suspension parts from UMI performace. Upgraded front and rear brakes are from Ed Miller at flynbye, 13” up front and 12” out back (C4HD setup, PBR calipers, raybestos rotors, braided lines). The front is lowered on 2” lowering spindles, and all corners have MOOG springs. Shocks struts are curretly Tokico adjustables, but those are coming out in January and some Koni yellows are going in. The car weighs 3,422 pounds as of August this year, and that is with a full tank of gas and full tank of nitrous, but without me in it. 18x8 “ and 18x10” Boze forged aluminum wheels with Nitto 555 tires that are good enough to last me one more full year. Removed heat and air conditioning, MSD Digital 6 ignition control box, line lock, deleted smog setup, radiator is 8 years old but always flushed clean, auxillary transmission cooler, full interior with sound system, Dyno Dons coated headers and y-pipe ( I think 1.75” headers ??), to a hooker 3” cat back exhaust with an electric cut out along the main-pipe.





So, with all of the above being mentioned, I am looking to tackle some of the modifications that the new powerplant will need, over this winter. The car is currently up 24” of the ground (in my garage), since I just removed the transmission and driveshaft two days ago. I am wondering what I can do now.

Fuel system:
The new engine will certainly require me to upgrade my fuel system, especially the in-tank pump. After some research, if I wasn’t using the wet nitrous shot, I probably would be fine with a 255lph pump. I’d rather not risk running out of fuel though, so I am thinking… just go with one rated at 340lph like the aeromotive one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...t/model/camaro
…. My question is, if I were to put this (or any other recommended pump) in the car now would it wreak havoc on my current fuel system and TPI?? Or would it just work as normal and return unused fuel back to the tank like the current/stock setup? Could anything be damaged? Should I do the fuel pump now since the car is up in the air, driveshaft is out, and I will be taking down the rear-end soon to install Koni Yellow shocks anyways? I also run a Holley AFPR on the Tpi set in the neighborhood of 49psi if memory serves me correctly. Also, how about fuel lines? Should I be looking to upgrade my fuel lines for a bigger diameter feed/return line? If so, how will this work at the tank bulkhead area ?

Trans:
Mentioned above, can go more into details if needed. Should be back in about 4-6 weeks either with a freshened up 675 hp limit or with an upgraded 750hp limit.

Driveshaft:
Stock steel one currently, won’t last long, so I will eventually destroy it with the new engine, and end up ordering a performance one from Denny’s or elsewhere

Rear end:
Would love to install a 12 bolt this year, but might not be able to budget $ for it. Also, slightly curious to see how long the 10 bolt might last with the new engine next year. Could probably order one from strange,currie,moser and keep it off in the corner of the garage for when the 10 bolt falls apart though. Not sure if I want to go with a ford 9” though.

Exhaust:
Kinda skeptical about the inside dimensions of the headers and hooker 3” setup choking the new engine. Maybe I could keep the headers, and then eliminate the y pipe and have a true-dual 2.5” setup fabricated ? not sure that I should do that now though with the current weak 350 ? that would be overkill and prob hurt performance

Cooling:
While the car never has overheating issues, it might be a good idea to get a head-start on this maybe. The radiator is a stock replacement style, and has been in the car for 8 years. Every two years I drain it, and drain the block by taking out the knock sensor. I do a flush job and refill. Everything comes out clean-ish. Water pump is stock. 180 degree thermostat. BOTH puller fans are wired to spin anytime the ignition is on. Should I invest in a bigger aluminum radiator or hold off? I’d like to reuse the dual puller fans, and I’ll probably just end up putting them on a toggle switch to a relay that I can control from the dashboard. The new engine will come with a water pump on it already.

Pulleys and accessories:
I have the option with the engine shop in NJ to have a set of March pulleys and brackets put on. Their price is expensive though. My stock PS pump and reservoir is doing just fine. I run a 140 amp chrome powermaster alternator that is 2 years old and working great. I could reuse those I would think? I have a Hitachi high-torque mini starter too that I could reuse as well.

Roll Cage:
With the power that the new engine setup will put down, I would hope to be running below the 11.49 second mark, which would mean that I am required to have at least a 4 point roll bar setup to run at Englishtown, Island, Atco etc. I will never be doing an 8 point cage, and the most I would ever do is a 6 point setup with door bar swingouts. Stopped by ProFab Chassisworks here in Nj and they quoted me $2,200 as a starting price! With options closer to $3,000..and at that point I said to myself, that $ would much better be spent a full 12 bolt rear end instead. So, yea, I’ll need a age, but I might wait until I am required to have it, since having this car with a weak 350 and a cage really isnt a cool vibe.

Wheels tires:
Tough one here….I love my wheel setup but they are heavy and too pretty to beat to hell in any type of drag/road course racing or autoX. I will need 4 new tires on these at the end of next year, probably a 200 treadwear nitto, bfgoodrich, or falken. For specific drag racing, maybe I’ll find a light set of centerline convo pros but they would have to be 17” diameter to clear the C4HD brake setups. Might wait on this until the car is setup, running, and already making passes.


What else am I forgetting here?? I know I typed a LOT, but I wanted to put it all on the table, so hopefully I can map out a well thought out plan of attack. Since the car is up in the air and not going anywhere for a good 3 months.. I want to tackle anything I can (within reason) to get the ball rolling in the right direction for 500+ hp in winter of 2018/19.





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Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You have it covered basically. Basically all the stuff i had and the car handled 1200+ hp

Upgrade the trans, driveshaft with a front safety loop. Those are good ideas

6-8 pt roll bar is nice too. Keeps it track legal to enjoy but also stiffens car up alot.

340 lph will be good. And fine for tpi since pressure is regulated by regulator so pump dont matter

Dyno dons will be ok but a dual 2.5 or single 3.5-4" would be ideal on the spray

I would rather see a port injection system like holley hp with a single plane intake or stealth ram type deal. Never was a fan of tbi in any performance application

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Over 10 large with a Chinese Eagle crank and rods? No thanks.

I haven't been impressed with the fit, finish, or machining on any of the Eagle products.

Find a local builder you trust. The Scat products seem to be much more consistent than the Eagle stuff. Still have to check every one, and I'm not talking with plasti-gauge either..... with proper measuring tools.

If there's one thing I've learned over and over again - if you want it done right, do it yourself. Every single time I buy something that's been built by some "expert" it takes a crap and I'm left holding the bag of feces. Build your own motor - you're far enough out in time-frame and can buy the pieces over the next year.

GD

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

thanks guys:

General Disorder. I forgot to mention, that on that Nyes racing engine, i would pay the extra $500 for the Callies Crank and rods and also upgrade the bolts too (at bottom of website page). I would also call/email them directly to specify my goals for teh engine and its intended use so maybe they could file fit rings differently etc. While I have put together several engines for our teams 24 hours of leMons car, and done top end engine work on my jeep and other vehicles.. I don't trust myself enough to build a high performance engine with too many expensive parts in it. What I would like to do, is once I take out the 350, maybe give that a tear down and refresh on my own or with some help, i can afford to make a mistake on that one.. certainly not on the one I want to live a long strong life in the car
I did stop by another local engine shop that is less than 5 minutes from my house and spoke to the guy there for about half an hour. he knows my goals and said he could work up a price for me over the next week or so. Still waiting to hear back from him, but i'm also not in a tremendous rush.



Thanks Orr89: I know from the years of reading your posts that you are a very knowledgeable source on here so thanks. I do have a driveshaft safety loop integrated into the S&W racing subframe/torque arm assembly. the trans will be getting overhauled and probably upgraded even further over the next 4-6 weeks. As for the pump, i'd rather do it once and be done, so probably the 340lph would be the way to go. I think I will have to upgrade all the wiring to it and inside of the tank as well. still curious about upgrading to larger fuel lines.
A port injection would be cool. I'm not skilled in engine tuning, so that might be a difficult (but learnable) area for me. I do like seeing the plug and play type tuning of the recent FiTech, Fast2.0 and Holley sniper/terminator setups. Also that in-car color touch screen display seems to be neat


the more I talk to engine companies and builders, they tell me that the 500+ hp will be perfect for the street and I won't really need to use the nitrous anymore on the street. i do tend to use it pretty damn often on the current engine setup, but thats because it is weak. i may only end up running a 150 wet shot or so and only at the track.. so I might not need a purpose built "nitrous built" engine

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Didnt have any issues with my eagle crank and rods in a nitrous 383 but i agree they wouldnt be my first choice. Compstar, molnar, k1 and maybe scat if on a budget

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

3/8 stock hardline will make good power with higher fuel pressure. If tbi uses low pressure might want to go larger. -8

Those ecms will self tune to a degree but you will still need to fine tune. Holley hp will self tune same way but ultimately you will disable it and fine tune once its close. And you definitely dont want it tuning while on the hose, or atleast turn down the amount of adjustment it can do. Make it go richer rather than doing any leaning out. Nitrous sometimes fools o2 sensors so fuel correction shouldnt be done. Plugs will tell you whats going on. But small shots can do ok on widebands. I used wideband on my 150 shot car. But checked plugs alittle to verify.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

bit of an update:

I have been hard at it with research, emails, and planning . If only I had a lot of extra $... everything would be happening this calendar year, but since I don't, I have to plan things out sensibly.

I have exchanged emails with Nyes engines, Ohio Crankshafts, FiTech, Racetronix, and a few others. I am pretty damn certain I will be going with a 406, 421, or 434 gen 1 SBC with the Holley Sniper EFI system and a nitrous plate. I can buy it now via credit card and some of my car-fund savings account, but I am going to hold off and see what else I can get accomplished in the meantime.

The transmission will be getting shipped out on Thursday for a teardown and refresh, along with upgrading it to the 750 hp level offered by ProBuilt automatics (i still have to confirm this with Dana, but it is my plan). Probably will take about a month for a tunraround, but thats ok with me as long as it is done the best it can possibly be.

Fuel system: Racetonix offers the FULL wiring upgrade kit that I would need, including relays, grounds, power wire to alternator etc. http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...WH-005&eq=&Tp=
I checked flow ratings and horsepower ratings and I am confident that an Aeromotive 340 lph in-tank fuel pump will be just what I need for the 525hp +200 wet shot.
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/340-fuel-pump-gm/
I will need to plumb in a separate fuel pressure regulator for just the nitrous feed line later on, but that is once the new engine and n20plate is in and operational. Much research has shown that my factory fuel lines do have the proper diameter and flow to support my upcoming fuel demands so the main lines under the car will be staying.
Also, to solve my infrequent fuel starvation(when racing only)issues I had a few options, but I am pretty sure I want to go with the Holley Hydramat product. probably this one: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/parts/16-104
or the 15"x15" version. anyone have any input on this? the only thing I am curious about, is how I am going to attach it to the new aeromotive pump inlet...and how I am going to do this when the assembly is INSIDE the tank hole..?
Therefore soon i will be ordering the racetronix hot-wire kit and the Aeromotive 340lph pump and the Holley Hydramat. Anyone have any last minute words of advice on that???

Yesterday I ordered the Koni Yellow struts and shocks from Founders performance. They called me today to let me know the rears were out of stock for a few weeks, but that is fine with me. I went with the 3rd gen front struts and the 4th gen rear shocks because the 4th gen shocks are ON-CAR adjustable...where the 3rd gen style shocks need to be removed from the car for any adjustment.

My MSD Digital 6+ ignition box is at MSD getting tested and repaired.

I got one wheel fixed that had very minor curb rash on it, but it was enough to bother me. USA wheels in Fairfield NJ did it for about $160

I will be holding off on ordering a driveshaft, rear axle assembly, roll bar, wheels, tires, and instead leaving the $ in my car-fund bank account so it can go directly towards the engine payment.

I will be removing the whole rear axle from the car when I drop the fuel tank to upgrade the pump. I want to pull out both axle shafts and install longer wheel studs. For full lug-nut engagement, I still can go another 1.5 full threads...so I'd rather be safe than sorry and just do it. I think these are the correct ones, but i will double check my measurments:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7708
http://www.jegs.com/i/ARP/070/100-7708/10002/-1



That is it for now. If anyone has any input on the wheel studs, racetronix hotwire fuel pump wiring kit, aeromotive 340 fuel pump, holley hydramat, or anything else...feel free to let me hear it. I will probably order some of this stuff mid week next week.

Jacobaxeman

Are you going to fit it under the stock hood?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

no... I haven't had a factory type hood on the car in 12 years. (see photographs at the first post of this page) I have a Glastek fiberglass 2" cowl hood. I also plan to run a drop base air filter to gain another 1" of clearance. I will probably regain 3/4" in height though when I put on the nitrous plate.

i am pretty confident it will all fit.. unless there is something that you are thinking that I dont know ??

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not sure why that Iroc looks so damn familiar to me, what part of New Jersey are you in?

Is there still time to talk you out of that engine you're planning, or it it a done deal?

- Rob

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I am in northern Jersey. Roxbury specifically. Right in between Morristown and Hackettstown. Been in NJ with this car since 1999 basically


Sure, there is plenty of time. About a year until it all happens is my estimate.. if all goes according to plan. However, there is absolutely NO way I would consider an LS or LT swap. not a chance.

Jacobaxeman

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Oh hellz no, no engine swap whatsoever. I'm a die hard believer in keeping the SBC in a factory SBC vehicle. In fact, the one thing that stood out was how much you drive and enjoy the car. A 500 horsepower naturally aspirated engine is very nice, the power is always there, however, I do stress always. With all that incoming air needed to make that naturally aspirated power comes the needed fuel to maintain a stoich air/fuel ratio on a constant basis, which although is great at first and feels awesome... gets tiring very fast as the driving progresses, and the wallet comes out. it would be nice to have that power on tap, even with the nitrous plans, but when your driving on the highway just cruising around keeping the gas mileage to a minimum, and actually enjoying the car. The engine you have in there now can handle the power you need, but rather than invest that much money into more cubic inches, why not build the current engine with lower compression, smooth as glass camshaft, but with the power on demand running a turbo. Twelve to fifteen pounds of boost setting will get you where you want to go with the flick of the wrist in the cockpit, but when you're on the highway just cruising or going somewhere, set boost to five pounds or under with the flick of the wrist and enjoy twenty to thirty gallons per mile, good braking, and no overheating. I always seem to change everyone's mind when I give them a ride in my lowly and anemic 305, when they see how the electronic boost control works, as well as the effortless ECM fuel control...

- Rob

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I grew up in Randolph. ...but I've been gone since '95. Good luck with everything. Your car has always been one of my favorites.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Abubaca: ah, yes I drive through Randolph every day on may way to work. cool! thanks for the compliments as well!

jacobaxeman: I also love the original style louvers that were on the factory hoods. If I had a factory hood I would certainly have those, or these awesome FUNCTIONAL ones:
http://trackspecmotorsports.com/iroc...od-louvers-kit
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...d-louvers.html

StreetLethal. thanks for the comments and info. much appreciated. I know what you mean about "the power will always be there" and $ spent on fuel will become a headache. The engine in the camaro is definitiely coming out, its a 2 bolt mainblock with cast everything. I don't want to build it up.. but I do plan on putting it into my 1995 Jeep wrangler as a retrofitted type cool jeep project vehicle. I am impressed by your fuel MPG with your turbo setup indeed. I just don't think that is the route I wish to go with this car. I like the simplicity of an easy to work on engine bay, and would not be happy at all opening my hood to see the network of turbocharger, wastegate, and header piping all over. for this car, it will never have a blower or turbo setup. it will either be NA or nitrous asssted, and since i already have the nitrous in the car , there really isnt much need to remove it. I will probably use it a LOT LESS than i have been since the engine will already be making enough power NA. I do use the nitrous pretty often on the current weak engine setup.


I got an email from Aeromotive the other day informing me that they do not apprve of using the Holley Hydramat with their 340 lph pump, so I will not be doing so. this will make the pump install easier, and if I do more autocross, speed stop, type events, I will just make sure to to have more than 1/4 tank of fuel. here is their email:
""You may not run a Stealth 340 pump with a Hydramat, even if you could connect it, the turbine style pumping mechanism in the Stealth 340 pump cannot produce adequate vacuum to draw through the Hydramat. These style pumps need a flooded inlet to work well.""

my Koni Yellow front struts arrived, but the rear shocks are on backorder for a few weeks.
I shipped out my transmission for the disassembly and rebuild/upgrade.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

it has been a while since I updated this but I wanted to get some work done to show for it before posting individual updates all the time. also I was busy for several weeks installing a very complex drop-ceiling in my basement and running electrical wiring, then installing can-less LED recessed lighting. now that that is done, my attention can swing back to the car projects.
Here is a rundown of where I stand along with some photos. (Don't anybody give me a hard time about the car on concrete blocks, there are also 4 jackstands under there as well. It is mighty well supported. the end.)


The transmission is still in Georgia, but as of a few days ago the builder had it all disassembled and found a piece of metal that was holding a plunger in place. I'm no transmission guru but he told me that this caused some scuffing on a plate and possibly could have caused the 3-4 clutches to not work properly. While it is there he is installing a few more parts that will make this trans capable of holding 750-800 flywheel horsepower.








I decided that since I was taking out the fuel tank to install the 340lph pump, as well as doing the larger wiring upgrade, I might as well increase the fuel feed/return lines and go with braided. After emails with Holley, aeromotive, racetronix, etc etc I was told that the Holley Hydramat would not work with my desired pump/tank/pickup setup. I then put that $200 I was going to spend on the Hydramat towards buying the braided lines and -AN fittings.




I got everything from Racetronix, and with Jacks help, we compiled a long list of parts, fittings, wiring, and so forth to get me a kick-*** fuel system. I am keeping the stock tank, hanger, sending unit, float, and bulkhead, but aside from that, everything will be new (and better) leading up to the TPI setup. Since the TPI setup will be getting removed when I do the engine project next year, I just used adapters to go from the -AN lines to the saginaw fittings near the TPI rails.






The fuel line is P.T.F.E. Teflon lined, stainless steel braided, and then coated in a snazzy composite coating. this is great for under the car and easy to wipe down, but I may peel off the coating on the hose that is visible in the engine bay to expose the fancy braided steel lines. maybe next year though
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=TFT1170-08B&eq=&Tp=
I went with -8an (1/2") line for the feed line and -6an (3/8") for the return line. I am leaving the vent line as is from the factory at this time.

Fittings are P.T.F.E. style and I have to assemble each fitting onto the hose after determining the hose length. There are an assortment of adapters too. Everything is black anodized and so far all are going on well.
http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?Cc=FIT-TFE&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&Bc=





The pump is a Racetronix RXP340E which will actually flow closer to 380lph with the upgraded wiring kit (so I was told)
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=RXP340E&eq=&Tp=
I also got their fuel filter which uses a removable filter element that is also magnetic. installed it with their billet filter mount as well.
-the pump, lines, wiring, filter, fittings etc are all E85 capable too, and not that I plan on running E85 but it is nice to know I could have the option to do so.









the wiring upgrade they make can certainly be built by hand to save money, but I decided to get everything I needed for wiring pre-built from them.
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=FPWH-005&eq=&Tp=
http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=BCWA-FL98HD&eq=
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=ITWH-002&eq=&Tp=


I am about 50% done with the fuel system project so far; need another full day to probably complete it. Then the tank can go in and I can check that the pump primes and there are no leaks.


****QUESTION, if i don't have a transmission or rear end in the car, but the engine is in, would it be possible or problematic to test the fuel system and crank the engine over to let it run for a short moment? again, no transmission, torque converter, exhaust from the y-pipe back, no driveshaft, rear axle. thoughts? I simply want to make sure the fuel system is functioning and re-set the fuel pressure via my Holley fuel pressure regulator at the TPI.. prior to reinstalling the exhaust, axle, rear suspension etc. Could this damage anything at all or cause a problem in any way shape or form ??



more below

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

the rear axle will be staying as is for now. I did decide to get some slightly longer wheel studs so that I could feel comfortable by having a full 7or8 turns of thread engagement on my rear wheels. While taking the axles out I was stopped dead in my tracks at finding a very odd sheared off bolt head lying in the bottom of the axle carrier. the fluid was dark and slightly metalic, but there was this small head of a sheared off bolt. It is a tapered head that looks to have been installed via a torx. I spoke with some experts on this board and online and nobody seems to think it ever belonged to anything inside my specific axle. The last three times (in the past 6 years) this rear has been opened up was by me and me alone. I did not put it there and do not recognize it. The rear is original to this car minus the richmond 3.73's. So it is a 10 bolt, 26 spline, series 2 carrier, G80 RPO code rear. Anyone have any oddball thoughts about this bolt head (seep photos)
--Regardless, I will be putting in the longer wheel studs and putting it all back together in hopes that I can get many more miles out of it this year. In the long run I will need a better rear and driveshaft to handle the big power for next years engine project, but I don't have and extra $4,500 for a 12 bolt and new driveshaft at the moment. I am hoping this 10 bolt lasts a while and in the meantime I can save up, buy a 12 bolt and keep it off to the side in the garage in case this rear fails suddenly on me.









My Koni yellow struts and shocks have arrived and will go in when I reassemble everything.
My MSD ignition box is back from having two failed transistors replaced and tested by MSD.





feel free to share comments, concerns, good or bad feedback, or advice.

for the full album of photos, here is a link:
/

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah you could but motor wont be exactly balanced right on the motor mounts since trans supports the back side. Shouldnt hurt but i would maybe put a jack and block of wood under oil pan to help support. Just be careful

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

FUEL SYSTEM IS COMPLETE AND WORKING PROPERLY.

Yesterday I finished up the lines and connections at the tank bulkhead. cut the vent tube and the "honk" valve metal lines off and ran new fuel rated rubber lines from the tank. I also wired in the wiring harness that I got from racetronix already prebuilt. It gets power from the alternator, so the voltage will be above 14volts to feed the pump. the wiring was a little long so I had to loop it onto itself back by the tank. it came with the built in relay, connectors, and chassis ground terminal. The body-mount clamps I got fit the -6 return line perfectly, so that is hard mounted along the chassis and underbody. I have some billet clamps that attach the -6 line to the -8 feed line along the path too, and then the wiring, vent tube line, and the brake line to the rear axle are all zip tied together. The filter is large, so I was limited on areas to mount it, but I found a good enough spot for it.


When it was all said and done I connected the battery and tested for voltage. I put the keyON and heard the pump prime. it did. I then removed the coil wire from the distributer and cranked the engine a few times to build fuel pressure in the line and check for leaks. no leaks. Figured, what the heck and reconnected the ignition. after a bout only 2 seconds, the engine started up and ran. let it run at idle for about 10 seconds and shut it all off. went underneath with a dry papertowel and checked for leaks. no leaks. let everything sit for about 15 mins and cranked it over again. ran for 10 seconds at idle and turned it off. no leaks.

(orr89rocZ) i did as you mentioned and used my floorjack under the pan but with my polyurethane floor jack pad on it)


so hopefuly that totaly wraps it up for the fuel system portion of this winter's project
I'll now reassemble the rear end after I put in the new longer wheel studs.

still completely unsure about what path I will go with rearends, and what to do about this brake setup.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

so since the last update I have gotten the car completely back together and back on the road

I left the rear end "as-is" with the hopes that it can survive through most/all of 2018 while saving up for a new purpose built rear (as earlier discussed above by us all). so, the exhaust, heat shields, rear axle, brakes, suspension components, lines, etc are all done. I installed new slightly longer wheel studs in the axles because I wanted a few more turns of thread engagement, and now I feel better having about 7.5 turns of thread engagement when bolting on my rear wheels. I upgraded the rear shocks to the Koni Yellow 8241-1140sport adjustable shocks...which are specifically for 93-02 fbody. the reason i got these instead of the ones for the 82-92 fbody is because these are ON-CAR adjustable, while the 82-92 versions have to be taken OFF of the car to be adjusted and then reinstalled. the 82-92 are dual valved though, and these are only single valved.. but the on-car adjustment is important to me. my rears are currently set at 1.0 turns up (out of a total of 2.5)




reinstalled and rewired the repaired MSD Digital 6 ignition box also. installed a new speedometer cable because the old one had a split in the housing where it mated to the transmission and leaked fluid slightly. ATP cable #03159 P/N Y815 80" long. got both of my oem sun visors recovered at a local upholstery shop because the fabric was getting loose and that just didnt jive with my mint headliner.

Decided to do the "4th gen coolant tank mod" and get rid of the location of my factory tank from the passenger inner fender. cut out most of my battery tray since it had become rusty and because I had to cut a pear shaped hole in it anyway to install the tank setup. replaced the tray with a piece of 1/8" sheet aluminum which I cut the pear shaped hole into. primered and painted it red and dressed the hole with some rubber vac tubing to eliminate any tank rubbing on the sharp edges. filled in the holes on the inner fender with epoxy, then body filler, sanding, primer, paint etc. cleans up the engine bay a LOT by not having the bright white goofy plastic tank there. my battery now sits higher but does not come close to interfering with the hood.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

...finally got the transmission back from the builder who upgraded it after repairing the worn 3-4 clutch pack and also resurfacing a few components that had some wear. he also found that a plunger in the valve body was stuck in place by a piece of metal that somehow found its way into the system. it COULD be from the old exploded transmission which COULD have left pieces of metal in the system... However, in 2016 I did do my very best to flush the lines, and the trans cooler inside the radiator using TWO cans of the trans system flush aerosol can product after explosion of old trans. I now have installed an in-line magnetic transmission fluid filter made by magnefine in case there are any additional particles that may be in the system. trans has been beefed up to" hold 750-800" flywheel hp. details here: https://probuiltautomatics.com/shop?...scend_by_price
-- (actually it looks like Dana just changed his website around and now doesnt list the full details of each product on the website anymore?? hmm. interesting. oh well)
- put a drain plug in the pan also to help prevent any future messy trans fluid spills when removing the pan. While installing the crossmember, 2 out of the 4 bolts started to become stripped. I know this is a common thing for these unibody fbody crossmember setups and happens after repeated removal/installs due to the cheap-o metal captured nuts that GM welded inside the frame. I did my research here on thirdgen.org and I was successful with the easiest repair method.... This simply involves re-tapping the bolt holes to a larger size and installing larger 7/16" bolts. the other methods involve cutting side access holes into the frame, or removing the interior and carpet to drill access holes through the floor to weld in new nuts. perhaps in the future i'll do that if the interior is out, but for now the new bolts are holding snug.





Installed the front Koni yellow struts P/N 8741-1030Sport. these are specific for the 82-92 fbody. I currently only have them cranked 1.0 turns up from zero. greased all steering and suspension components and cleaned up underside of the chassis. brought the car for an alignment and got everything sorted out how I wanted it to be. also set the driveline angle at 3deg according to my tremec driveline angle finder app. (cool free app by the way)







after a few short test drives and another bolt check underneath the entire car I took it out for a good 20 minutes and everything felt fine. the trans doesn't seem to like shifting from 1-2 at very low rpm throttle input, it kinda bucks two or three times after the shift...again when basically coasting. I'll see if this goes awayand do some research as well.
I checked fuel pressure since I was worried that the new upgraded fuel pump/system might have disrupted the psi and found that when I dialed the pressure down to the stock 48 / 42 psi settings (vac hose off/on) the engine did not like it at all. It seemed to run the happiest when at 51psi/44psi so I left it set at that. Got the nitrous tank filled at Bruce's Seed shop and did a few quick 3-4 second rips with that to ensure that my nitrous related MSD box wiring and fuel system stuff was in order... and it was.


So for now it will be on the road for a while. I have no immediate plans on the calendar yet for any autocross or drag racing. I do want to do some autoX at the Meadowlands this year, but might hold off on drag racing since I am still driving around with the hurt rear and do not have the $ to buy a new beefed up one. I plan on some long fun cruises, cruise nights, car shows, the UMI autoX event, and some general thrashing when appropriate. I will need to do a full blown intense wash, strip, claybar, polish, sealant, wax session in a few weeks when the pollen is all gone. I stopped by CTW Paul's house and picked up a LOT of awesome detail supplies from him for a great price. (also picked up a full cat-back Magnaflow exhaust setup for my truck). Thats all, just wanted to update. Still slowly saving for a rear axle and for the big engine project. hopefully this winter, but dang my wifes college bills have really been eating into my engine savings account! oh well. thats life.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

So, it has been about a year since I last updated this, and I am happy to say that this upcoming winter the engine replacement will be happening. During 2018 I put a few thousand miles on the car, and did some autoX with it. over this past winter I removed the old hurt 10 bolt and replaced it with a Moser 12 bolt (link: http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68687) It should hold 900 Horsepower from what Moser Engineering told me. new 12 bolt housing with 3" tubes, fully welded all around. 33 spline axles. Detroit TruTrack rear Diff. 1/2"x2" screw-in wheel studs. ball bearings on the housing ends. no-clips. solid pinion spacer. chrome-moly pinion yoke. aluminum rear cover. built in adjustable lower control arm mounts. powdercoated black. heavy and beefy. I also had a driveshaft made by Denny's Driveshafts which I was told is good to hold about 1,500 horsepower. 3" tube. chrome-moly slip yoke. high speed balanced. lifetime warranty. I had to sort out some wild ignition issues which melted down my distributor cap and fried a diode in my MSD Digital6 ignition box also. The car got a full 4 corner alignment and drive-line angle was set. I had the mis-aligned rear hatch, so I removed the deck-lid and reinstalled it so everything lines up properly. I now have a few hundred miles on it this year and I am super happy about it all.

However I am getting amped up to get things moving towards the engine swap. Working overtime as much as I can to collect the funds so I can buy the engine flat-out. I am 99% sure it will be the engine I listed in post#1 a while back. http://nyesautomotive.net/406_525hp_EFI.html a 406 with EFI. basically a new DART SHP block, Callies crank and rods (NOT the Eagle ones.. scroll to the bottom of the link page for callies crank/rods). Dart Pro1 cylinder heads. Holley Sniper tbi tyle EFi (possibly might upgrade to the Holey Super Sniper unit). Dyno Tested to 525 hp, and shipped to my door. I spoke with them and they can file the rings and make any other mods needed so that I can run a 200-250 progressive wet shot of nitrous too. The holley sniper can control cooling fans, nitrous progressive shots, tune settings and so forth.

My biggest dilemma is going to be the exhaust and headers. I currently have the DynoDon's 1 3/4" short/mid-length headers. they are awesome for my current setup.. and perhaps might be "ok" with the new engine N/A, but not for the engine when its on the nitrous. I am pretty sure I will need a set of 1 7/8" or bigger headers. Biggest problem--- my car is a street car and it is LOW. In all practicality, I don't think a set of long tube headers will work. I spent a lot of time on Thirdgen.org and the hooker and other long tube headers would probably sit way too low for my already low street car. I might have to just get a set of headers custom built for the car. Expensive! bummer. As for the rest of the exhaust, I don't have any desire to run a dual exhaust.. nor do I think it would be easy, since I have the S&W subframe/torque arm kit that has a low crossmember under the driveshaft. I think I will go with a 4" mufflex exhaust system... with a proper muffler.


I think the plan for 2019 is to drive the car to events, shows, do some autoX and maybe even chug it down the 1/4 mile a few times. Around November, PRIOR to pulling out the engine, I would like to get the car over to S&W racecars in Pennsylvania and have them install a 6 point roll-bar setup with swing-outs on both sides. After that is done, I can drive the car home and start pulling it apart. I want to relocate the Optima red-top battery to the rear (under pass side trunk area), and redo all the needed wiring. I will also need to install an On-OFF kill switch too. Then I'll remove the current engine (and probably transmission too). I want to spend some time in the engine bay patching holes, relocating things, running new nickle-copper brake lines, and then paint the engine bay. Once things are proper in there, I can install the new engine with the trans (prob both at the same time). Will have to see if my 2,800 rpm Edge racing converter should be replaced?? Then bolt up my existing DynoDon's headers to just get the engine running and car sorted out. If those are a problem, I'll have to decide if having a custom set of headers built is the best way to go.
I am NOT sure what I will be doing with the accessory drive or pulleys yet. I ONLY need a water pump, power steering pump, and alternator. I might wind up just using my existing 140 amp powermaster alternator and existing power steering pump. I see online companies (march, Eddie motorsports, billet specialties, etc) want about $1,800 for nice billet accessory drive kits. That might be out of my budget for this year, it might just have to wait. my current parts/brackets aren't super pretty, but if I can use them while saving up $ for a fancy accessory drive setup, that might be the way to go.

I also plan on installing a brand new radiator since the engine, water pump, hoses, etc will be brand new. I will probably go with a large 2 core radiator, as I have read that some 2 cores work better than some 3 core radiators. I'll need a new catch can too. I want to keep the current (oem stock) dual puller fans too. so if I can find a proper radiator that the fan mounting assembly will work with, that would be awesome. again, the fans will be controlled by the Holley Sniper computer .

all in all, the car is pretty much set for 2019. I am going to enjoy it as it is now and patiently wait for the big stuff to begin in November.

anyone that has any thoughts, ideas, recommendations, negative/positive comments, feel free to share. any parts recommendations or links to important stuff is appreciated.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That's a BIG bore small block! So I think they're sandbagging at 525 Hp. What does it really do?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

maybe? possibly? hopefully!!! hell, if it dyno's at MORE than 525 hp, i'm certainly not going to complain!!. next time I talk to them, i'll ask .

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I am definitely hoping that some more people here on TGO are willing to send me some advice/criticism/thoughts. this is a big big step for me into uncharted territory of a full engine replacement, and I hope to be making the best decisions along the way. I am not a mechanic by trade and this is simply a fun/expensive hobby of mine, and I want to do it as best as possible

anyone else? I know I type a lot and its daunting to read, but i try to put as much info out there so people have a full-circle idea of my thoughts/gameplan

comments? criticisms? thoughts? major red flags? good things? approval?

-cheaper places to have the 6 point roll bar done? S&W racecars wants about $3,200 for a bar with swing-outs in chrome-moly tube
-ideas for radiator and water pump?
-thoughts on headers and exhaust?
-torque converter upgrade from the edge racing 2,800 rpm?
__________________

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I am about 2 months away from ordering the engine. I have the full amount of $ saved and ready in my bank account. I also have the $ saved for the 6 point roll-bar install at S&W racecars. I still need to earn a few thousand dollars more to save for what I have been calling "the extras", which include a new torque converter, radiator, battery relocation box, wiring, and on/off switch, power steering box rebuild, engine bay makeover and paint, and maybe a set of drag slicks to mount onto my 16" iroc wheels. I am thinking somewhere about $3,500 for that stuff.


in the next few weeks I might start asking for input on what questions I should make sure I mention to the engine building company. cam specs, gap rings for a 200-250 wet nitrous shot, engine weight, component service life, spark plug type, stuff like that. I have never been down this road before, and since I am spending some big $ here, I want to make sure I ask all the right questions to people that are knowledgeable and then i can have a near perfect gameplan.

http://nyesautomotive.net/406_525hp_EFI.html

I plan to email them (and probably a phone call as well) within the next week or so. I already contacted them a year ago and they told me they could easily do everything I had mentioned at the time, but now that things are getting closer... I would like to get into specifics.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Looks good. Converter wise you probably will need to upgrade, especially for the nitrous. More stall probable work better with the 406, but the nitrous will open it up few hundred rpm more stall.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

cool, thanks for the advice !

I was planning to have a chat with Dana at proBuilt Automatics about converter specs once I reach out to the engine builder and get the actual camshaft specs. probably around december or january

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I have been in contact with S&W racecars over the past few months and we were initially shooting to have me drop the car off mid November, but they have two builds over there that have had customers add-on to these project so the timeline has shifted and I should be dropping the car off in about 3-4 weeks. I am hoping that mayyyybe around thanksgiving actually since I'll be out in PA just 8 mins away from their shop at my in-laws house for Thanksgiving. fingers crossed
- I am still undecided between a mild-steel vs a chrome-moly bar setup.?? Thoughts?

I did decide that I wanted to NOT have the two diagonal bars going from the main hoop and over to the driveshaft hump. I wont be seating passengers in the back, but i will want the space accessible for gear/stuff. Since I will be getting door-bar swingouts which will also be removable... I am hoping to have them weld in a lower (yet non-NHRA legal), support bar for chassis stiffness. It will be permanent and mounted to the same plate that the front of the swingout bar will mount. chassis stiffness when the upper bar is removed is the goal here. QuickTrip did this same setup

I made a sketch of all of this and it is attached below. I also will be getting the 5 point harnesses with the quick disconnect cam-lock style lock. I want the rear support bars to be bent so I can maximize trunk space and possibly put some sort of sound system on top of the trunk hump between the bars.

Since the roll bar project is delayed, I might go ahead an order the engine now. I was going to wait and do this early December but maybe I'll do it now. Nyes racing engines told me they get really busy starting early January, so November December is the best time to order it and have it built. I called and spoke to them a few weeks ago for about 25 mins. The engine (link above in other posts) will make 525+ streetable horsepower and 500+ tq. It makes power down low and mid range. This will work well with my 1 3/4" mid length headers since it will not be an all-out righ revving top end horsepower engine setup. The rings will be opened up for a 200-250 shot of nitrous as well.
I will be sent the complete build sheet with parts numbers, specs, and info. Engine comes dyno tested and with dyno sheet. 20-50 or 15-40 valvoline VR1 recomended. there should be no issues with blowby or cranckase pressures due to opening up rings for nitrous use. does not use a pcv system, just drop in breathers, Dart Pro1 heads on a Dart SHP block; the Dart specs can be found online....or if i find time i'll post them here.

-any final thoughts from the group before I order this??
when I call them this friday, I am going to ask about:
will I need a vaccum pump for brake system?
-does SHP block require a special type of ol pump or will basic SBC long/short just bolt right up?
-compression ratio?
-specific engine mounts for dart shp block or traditional sbc?
-throttle cable bracketry and TV cable advice?
-can I use evans waterless coolant in this all new engine and all new radiator/hose/pump setup?
-anything else??


so, any last advice on roll bar? might be leaning to mild steel bar. not sure if chrome moly is actually much weight savings... when I did the research its all about wall thickness and less material. CM is more brittle and needs to be tig welded. mild steel has more "bend" than break to it. more expensive for a few pounds of weight savings. and on a street car that will do moderate racing, I might go with mild-steel.?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

There are some better pictures in post #782, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post6149736

The lower bar is TIGHT to the driver side sill plate and electric switches on the 4th gen seat. I had to put a relief in the plastic sill plate using a heat gun and a scrap piece of roll bar tubing.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

awesome, thanks for sharing. I do like the addition of the lower door bar idea indeed so I'm "stealing" it from you.


I read your reply and the pre-edited reply. Both make total sense to me. Photos are a big help too on your thread. I plan on padding the main hoop bar for skull safety in the even of any type of crash. I don't mind some minor massaging/heating/trimming of the plastic, but I've seen a bunch of cages and roll bars that work around the 3rd gen camaro factory interiors with minimal disruption to things, so I am hoping that will be the case for me when S&W does it.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

spoke to Pat at Nyes Racing engines again on friday.
valvoline 15-40 VR1 oil is his strong recommendation. I decided not to get a high capacity oil pan because I have read here on thirdgen.org that the dyno-don's headers/y-pipe will not work with a non-stock oil pan... and I plan to reuse my dynodons setup for at least this next upcoming year. Dart SHP block will use a factory configured water pumps as well as factory style motor mounts. he will have the cam spec'd to provide good vacuum for the street and i should not need a vacum booster for the brakes. the static compression ratio will be around 10.4:1 or 10.5:1 and will run on 93 octane fuel. the engine will make awesome mid range hp as opposed to high rpm power. the engine will be given a full break-in while at their shop and then afterwards it will be put on their dyno and tuned. I requested videos and photos and he said sure thing.

engine order was placed today and payment was made for the bulk of it.
it will arrive at my doorstep in about 4-5 weeks.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Cool. I'll bet you're getting excited now!

This engine is going to be fun from the first drive! Although a 400+ ci engine will make torque by accident so maybe give it some more top end power and let 'er eat!

Plus side to a lot of low and mid range torque is it will be highly civilized at low throttle. Downside is it will be "hard to drive hard" because the tires will go up in flames every time you breath on the throttle.

Also, high rpm's pay big dividends in the speed department because you can hold gears to a higher speed. The torque at the tire is what accelerates the car, and gear upshifts cause a big drop of torque. You'd be surprised how much faster the car will be if you can hold a gear another +20 mph.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

about 3 more weeks until the engine arrives !

I dropped off the car at S&W racecars yesterday morning. they wont be able to get to it next week due to other customer projects, but they were nice enough to let me drop it off early since I brought it to my in-laws for Thanksgiving and their house is 8 mins away from the S&W shop.

we discussed the lower permanent door bars and they agree that it would certainly aid in chassis strength since I will not be keeping the upper door bars in year-round. went with mid steel tube, all TIG welded joints, No diagonal support bars over to the driveshaft tunnel, Stroud 5 point 3" wide black harnesses with cam-lock. figured out my seat position and handed them the keys. was told a few weeks . when I go pick it up I am going to ask their opinions about flexplate and trans shields, the battery relocation, kill switch wiring, and how to get the SFI approval sticker on the roll bar.

ASE doc

Hey GD, last I checked Eagle products are all made in their one and only plant in Kentuky, USA. My machinist uses some Eagle stuff and every motor he does is balanced and clearanced to .0001 tolerance. If he says theyre okay, that's good enough for me. I do agree that local built is best. I would never install a crate motor built by someone I never met.

I have three machine shops I trust with engine work. They are each known throughout the area for reliable, high performance engine machine work. Two of them have a 6 week back log all the time which is a sign of a good machine shop. Of course I have my one favorite who builds my own motors.

ASE doc

Sorry I was wrong. Eagle Specialty Products is located in Southhaven Missouri.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

without going into too much detail yet, I figured I would just put a small and disappointing update on here.
.... I had a super unexpected, probably expensive, personal life-emergency come up recently. Not sure how much detail I'll disclose, but I had to make the wise decision to ask for the car back from S&W because I don't know how my situation will play out. They were very understanding, and I left them a few hundred bucks for their trouble. They made it very clear that i was certainly allowed to bring the car back to them in the future for the roll bar project. Luckily, they had not started on the car yet, so that was good and I went out there last week with my cousin to pick it up. I drove it home in the cold rain in traffic, and it made it, despite engine misfires and all that. S&W did already order the 5 point safety harnesses, so they will be shipping them to me. I'll either keep them or sell them online, but with no roll-bar in the car, they can't be installed.

Regarding the engine, I spoke to Nyes and they are also very understanding of the emergency. They offered to put things on hold for short term or even for long term and I will be getting back to them soon. They have the block machined already and most of the engine components have arrived.

That is it for now. not looking for any replies, but I am just working on figuring out some life stuff now and will get to car stuff as it comes.

I might have some $ and "free" time to still re-locate the battery to the trunk and put in a kill switch on the tail light. Something I have wanted to do for a LONG time regardless of future racing/tech rules. it is not too expensive and maybe I can work on it in the meantime as a smaller inexpensive project (when compared to the engine, roll bar, radiator etc). I'll have to study up on wiring diagrams and see how much cash I can re-allocate for wire, end terminals, clamps, and an on/off switch. shall see.
For many years I typically would disconnect the negative terminal on the battery when I was parking the car for anytime longer than a week, and that gets old, annoying, and has been opening up the threads on the optima terminal over time. An on/off switch would be a much better solution, and would allow more engine bay space etc. I'll do it so it is NHRA legal for if I ever do get to race this thing, so yea.
If/when I post about it, its just a small project I'm working on to keep myself content while sorting out the personal situation stuff. Any help/advice on the wiring is appreciated. I have already read a LOT and seen some diagrams online about it. I talked to Ron Francis wiring guys during the UMI autoX event too. I want it to be done right the first time and never to have to be altered ever again.


photos of it over at S&W

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I had a pretty well shaped plan for how the next 3 months would play out, but unfortunately things took an unexpected turn. roll bar can wait. I'll need the $ for other life things instead. The engine will still be built since I paid for 2/3 of it already and the block/parts are ready to be assembled. pat will send over photos once they get started.

In the meantime, I will be proceeding so relocate the battery to the rear of the car and install the master kill switch in the tail-light. After much research, I THINK I have come up with a proper gameplan.

I have attached a schematic that I drew, so if anyone sees anything wrong with it please let me know. Some people have had luck with not using a battery --> engine block ground wire, and just using chassis grounds, but I want to eliminate all possible sources of faulty electrical issues, so I plan on running one. Also, in the Ron Francis wiring booklet, it says to run this important ground wire.

Unsure if I am going to use welding wire, or just buy some SGX or SXL cable?

Also unsure about a plastic vs a metal battery box. It will be going sideways in the area of the trunk where the spare tire used to be mounted. I'll have to fab up a flat/level plate for it to sit on, and also mount it to the "frame-rail" under the car. Even though its an AGM optima battery, I'll have the box be vented. Thoughts about the best box to use?

Not wanting to put the dual "dump/charge? terminals outside the car like most drag cars have... instead I'll have a junction box/jump terminal mounted under the hood for the + jump spot. I have read that using a mega fuse on this line is a good idea.. but NOT to use any fuse on the positive battery/kill switch --> the starter wire since amps get high and it would blow the fuse often.

Double pole, single throw kill switch mounted in the rear drivers side tail-light.

Will ground both cylinder heads to eachother and then the block to the chassis, as well as the block back to the battery negative... and the battery negative to a chassis ground at the rear of the car.

a question I have (and may call holley about) is if I do turn the kill switch off often, when parking the car for short term, will this cause the "memory" and "settings" in my Holley Sniper EFI unit to be erased???

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

is anyone out there!!? haha oh well

Went to Bruces speed shop today to see what he had for NHRA rated sealed battery boxes. Picked up the Taylor 48200 box for $93. it specifically holds the type of optima red top 75/25 battery that I have. I ran into a snag when i went to put the box in the spare tire location, .. the box is just about 1/2" too wide to fit down to the floor of that area. Its being blocked by the stamped metal support inside the fender, that I think is there primarily to hold the spare tire and jack. i will never be putting a spare tire back there, and I havent had one there in 10+ years anyways. I know that any metal in these cars around the body is structural of some sort, but would cutting/bending this stamped bracket have any huge negative consequence?

I looked for other NHRA rule 8:1 type legal battery boxes, and the dimensions of the ones that would qualify, well, most are wider.. actually nothing is narrower that will pass tech. I dont want the battery in the trunk well because I will need that space for sure. Thoughts on manipulating the inner fender bracket/spare tire mount to gain clearance in order to make the Taylor 48200 box work? Need photos?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Unusre if anyone was looking for a result of my battery relocation/kill switch project, but I had started a different thread about it on the forums here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ml#post6346936


It is almost done, just some more time getting everything organized before I switch over to work in the engine bay and pulling out the old engine. I am considering starting an entirely new thread about that and then linking this thread to it.. so that people don't have to scroll through this very long thread for the most recent updates. Aside from the roll-bar, I pretty much have completed all of the car-updates that i wanted to do before actually getting to the engine project.
So in a sense, this thread is coming to an end, but I will update it occasionally with info and photos as I can. I hope that this thread can help some other people with their projects, and I'll do my best to ensure the photos and info doesn't disappear if I change photo-hosting services. Thanks for the help along the way everybody!!

ASE doc

So is the engine still on hold? This makes me sad. Your car is very nice. You make me feel lazy for not getting more done on my own car. I have an exhaust system, a new 9" ford rear axle, and a new intake manifold project all sitting here waiting for me to get them done and installed. I blame the Oregon winter for my procrastination, but there are still things I could be doing to get closer to being ready for spring.

A couple of thoughts I have had on my own plans that may be of help to you:

First of all, think about doing a 400 instead of the 406. The 406 is a .030 over 400. Each .010 of overbore is one rebuild. The Dart SHP block allows for a max .040 overbore. This is a $2000 block. By boring it .030 over you are basically throwing three rebuilds out the window for .030 added bore and 6 cubic inches. I have been planning the same engine, a Dart 406, but thinking about it, I really don't like the thought of leaving myself just one rebore before the block is used up. Then I saw a dyno test of a Dart 400 making 565hp with 9.7 compression, a decent set of heads and a moderate sized cam. That is proof enough that the overbore isn't necessary for making my power goal of 550hp. The best small block chevy heads are designed around a 4.030" bore anyway with the largest intake valves being 2.08". The 400 already unshrouds the valves with a 4.125" bore. Ask your machinist how much does the added .030" really help power.

On the Dyno Don headers, have you asked Don about the use of other oil pans? I remember 1989GTATransAm's build where he used Dyno Don's headers and I'm pretty sure he was running an aftermarket pan. As far as exhaust, I have 1.75" shorty headers, very similar to Dyno Don's and have his 2.5" dual cat secondary pipes installed. I am going to build my own dual 2.5" system to follow the factory exhaust routing. This will be the best blend of exhaust flow(the dual 2.5" pipes support about 520hp before they become restrictive) and clearance to the driveline and to the ground on my lowered car. I've seen a system like this that looked very good.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

well, engine isn't really on-hold.
it is currently being built out in Indiana, and if all goes according to plan, it will be here in about 2 weeks or so. We already spec'd everything out and all the parts have been ordered, arrived, and machine works has begun. I certainly do appreciate your advice on the 400 cid engine and reasons behind it. I had no idea about the 406 being almost "maxxed out" regarding re-boring. wow. very interesting indeed. fingers crossed that I wont need to open up the engine. I plan on leaning on it for sure, but not super hard all out racing all the time. Just wanted a mid-level horsepower street/strip/autocross powerplant that later on I can run a few bottles of nitrous through at track events during the year. Since the engine build is already underway, I am going to have to stay with what we spec'd out. Pat (and the guys at Nyes) build a LOT of these small blocks and he has a really great reputation on yellowbullet.com and so forth.

The part of the car project that did have to get put-on-hold is the roll-bar setup and seat-belt harnesses. unfortunately that will have to wait, for an unknown amount of time. S&W was cool about it and they mailed me the 5 point harnesses that I had paid for. I picked up the car before they started doing the roll bar, and left them some $ for their troubles. For laughs, I just placed the Stroud harnesses in the car, just to see what it would have looked like. Damn, I'm sad.. but the roll bar and harnesses will have to wait.









Please keep me(us) posted about your exhaust build! dual 2.5" would be cool, but my S&w subframe kit is different than most subframe connectors and it seems I have very limited space for exhaust. I might go with a 4" setup. I'll reach out to DynoDon too, but my budget wont allow for new headers or exhaust this year at all. Damn. I also don't plan on using any nitrous this year. so it will just be exhaust for N/A

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

picked up the 3 ton engine hoist from my neighbor. I plan to take the old engine out with the trans attached to it. if that proves too difficult, I will seperate them. He also let me borrow a transmission jack too.


Today I drove the car for one last time with this engine in it. it was mid 40 degrees here in NJ today. The car ran rough, stalled while idling a few times, and SES light was on. This engine has been in the car for 19 years and has had a lot of use/abuse. It has served me very well enough for a little 305 Gm replacement engine that was never ment to have 20-25 bottles of nitrous fed through it recent years. It is time for an upgrade, but it does feel sad to take a "running" engine out of the car and make the car inoperable for a short period of time. luckily it is winter and I dont need to have the car road worthy for a few months.

Then I parked it in the garage and removed the nitrous solenoids, nitrous wiring, nitrous lines, evap canister and vacuum hoses, radiator, fans, trans cooler, etc.














my magnetic trans fluid filter did have some metallic sludge on it, butt here is no way for me to tell if this was accumulate in the radiator's trans cooler from the previous transmission meltdown back in 2016. even though I did flush it out then, if you read some of the older posts in this thread, I had a piece of old trans debris get stuck in the valve body of the new trans from Dana at Probuilt automatics a few years ago. I then put in the magnetic trans fluid filter, but have never checked it or replaced it (until now). I plan on getting a new aluminum (but on the more budget friendly $ spectrum) and hope that it and my B&M trans cooler will be clean and clear for years to come.




i guess next I will start removing the alternator, PS pump, headers, wiring, and transmission related stuff. I'll drain trans fluid and engine oil also.

anyone have any thoughts or input so far?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Engine is out!

prior to hooking up the engine I removed: distributor, alternator, evap canister, wiper motor, vac lines, fuel lines, power steering lines, the complete wiring harness, transmission, tv cable, throttle cable, headers, y-pipe, spark plugs, fans, radiator, trans cooler, etc. all that was left was the 2 thru-bolts in the engine mounts.


My good buddy and one of my neighbors came by today and we setup the hoist and load leveler and pulled out the engine pretty quickly and effortlessly. I was going to do a video, but decided just to do a few photos instead.





So I guess next will be to remove the steering box and ship that out for a full rebuild. start figuring out the sheetmetal work... basically I want to fill in some of the unused holes and smooth them over before painting in there. I also want to make a few sheetmetal panels to mount the underhood wiring components (distribution block, charging post, relays, circuit breaker, etc) onto. I also plan to redo the brake lines, and completely eliminate the combination valve/proportioning valve all together. I want to get some NiCop lines and flare them neatly and not run them right next to the exhaust header like factory ones were.



For me and my skill level, the hardest part of this whole project is going to be the wiring and connections. I can do the basic wiring stuff, but nothing super advanced. Scooter offered to help me out and possibly even build a new harness. My old harness has so much stuff on it, and I would love to only keep what I need for components like the body connections, alternator, wipers, fans, O2 sensor, coolant temp sensor/senders, etc. This will be a challenge for me, so i might have a LOT of questions for the board as time goes on.





question about this... this distributor and cap are 10 months old. why is one of the plug terminals a very different color? its from jegs. the whole unit.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

project update:
after pulling the engine out on Saturday, I removed the rest of the "stuff" in the engine bay. brake booster, brake master cylinder, line lock, old combination valve, brake lines, fuel lines, steering shaft, steering box, msd box, aluminum firewall plate, engine mounts, etc.

I shipped the oem steering box out to www.powersteering.com and they will do a full rebuild/refresh on it. since its the original one with 175,000 miles on it, and I plan to keep this car for a long time, as well as wanting to do more autcross, it felt like a smart decision. One of the fittings was frozen in the box, so in removing the fitting (of the return line) it broke.... I will need a new "return" hose aka "fluid cooler" line, so I'll have to find somewhere that sells those. any suggestions? Is the $13 one from autozone and advanced auto parts pretty much good enough?







I got the motor mounts out, and took them apart. the rubber was deformed, but not destroyed. I ordered some Polyurethane ones from Prothane. they should be here friday. I'll paint the metal clamshell and install the poly inserts, but have heard its quite a challenge to get the new mount's bolted into place??.




I de-greased the K member and lower body/suspension parts. Did a bunch of cleanup work and stripping with the wire wheel as well. I then got out the welder and spent a good amount of time filling in probably upwards of 30 holes in various parts of the engine bay sheetmetal that I don't plan on ever needing. They were mostly from the factory and were used to mount many components that I have removed from the car permanently. I then did a single coat of body filler, and starting tomorrow I will be sanding that down and doing another layer. then primer



I also had a large 3" wide U-bolt/clamp that I used to make a "tow hook" for possible future use. If this car ever needs to be brought around on a trailer or towed, I wanted a central hook/reciever that I could strap tow hooks to. I welded a piece of steel angle iron to the tapered section of the K member to make a larger flat bottom to the Kmember. then I welded the U bolt to it horizontally. I wish I had an ARC welder with me, but I did the best I could with my Mig welder. I did as many passes as it took, and the welds got sloppy after a while, but hopefully it is structurally solid. Bonus: it also gives me a larger flat spot for me to put a floor jack. I always hated putting the floor jack on the K member because of the small flat area right next to the angled/tapered front section. The new to hook is horizontal so it only added about 1/2 in reduced ground clearance...however my S&W torque arm crossmember, exhaust, and air dam plastic are much lower than this new tow hook is, so it will not be the lowest object under the car.










Next I have to work on cutting some panels out of 1/8" think aluminum to clean up the firewall, battery tray, evap charcoal canister tray, and some other open areas. I plan to sheet metal screw OR rivet these in place, and then they will get painted red like the rest of the underhood sheetmetal.


I also gotta take some time out to work on the brake system and figure out what fittings/adapters I will need. I will be buying a 25' roll of 3/16" Nickel-Copper line and making my own lines for a clean and orderly appearance.







Below are some photos of where I filled holes on the framerails, firewall, upper radiator support, and strut towers. Welded the holes shut and ground them smooth.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

several sessions of body filler, sanding, smoothing, and finally, the holes I wanted to fill are now hidden. I then got some 1/8" aluminum sheet-metal for $30 at a local sheetmetal place in Dover. Made up some paper templates for the firewall, battery tray, evap canister tray, and some of the areas on the inner fenders that were left open from the factory and seem unsightly to me. the one on the passenger side with the horizontal hole cut in it if for the three 1-gauge wires to come through (power, power, and ground). the plate where the battery used to be will be where my power distribution block will be, a jump post, and a 150 amp circuit breaker. so far, nothing will be on the drivers side plate. maybe in the future I could mount a small fuel cell for a nitrous system's independent fuel pump.

























I acid etched the primer and seam sealed the aluminum panels in place. I don't mind the sheetmetal screws, since I am not going for any Riddler awards with this car, and also because I can't weld aluminum. I know some people will not like the screw heads, but thats the only way i could think to do it, knowing rivets weren't really a feasible option. its still just a street car built in a my small garage.











Sanded the every surface underhood with 220 sandpaper. wiped everything with prep-solution and tack-cloths. I sprayed 3 coats of primer. was nice to see everything in "one color" for a change.

I toyed with the idea of removing the UMI strut tower mounts and painting under them. For the first time in years, I am super incredibly happy with the alignment I currently have on the car; since I have redone the alignment in the spring of the past 4 years. I am getting tired of bringing it somewhere only to have the shop be leery of setting the specs to my request, and STILL have yet to find a shop that helped me set it exactly how I wanted it to be. Therefore I decided to leave the strut tower mounts exactly where they are and keep my alignment. The new engine and battery relocation will change my corner weights, but i won't know how that will effect the car until it is all set and done. If the alignment is way wacky then. I'll get it corrected.. and figure out a way to touch up the paint under the strut mounts if they are to shift significantly in any direction.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Today, my dad came over and we painted. nason brand Flame Red, which is the exact same color as the exterior of the car. prior to this year, my engine bay paint was simply rattle can paint that I would spray every few years. no more of that! He used to paint custom vans, choppers, and cars back in the 70's and 80's, and was locally famous for his air-brush murals. (see this link for his old artwork https://www.freewebs.com/iroczman15/...oldartwork.htm ). he sprayed the first coat of paint to show me how it was done, and then I sprayed the remaining 3 coats. 4 in total.

















Polyurethane motor mounts from Prothane arrived.
I will install them in a day or two, after I paint the K-member, steering linkages, and radiator opening with POR15 black, by hand. does the orientation of the mount look correct to you guys? I referred back to my photos to figure out the position of the metal tabs in the insert, but if something is wrong, please let me know asap








next is the POR15 black chassis paint, and then I will start working on the brake system and line positions.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

So I got the K-member, tow hook, steering components, radiator housing, and wonderbar painted black with some POR-15.
I also painted the brake booster gloss black, as well as the UMI strut mounts, just to freshen things up.
I also installed the Prothane Polyurethane motor mounts.. and I think they are facing the right way up too!
















I bought a 25' roll of Nickel Copper NiCopp 3/16" brake tubing as well as a variety of fittings and bent up my own brake lines. I wanted something much cleaner and more simple than stock. I eliminated the stock style combination valve/proportioning valve, because I already have an in-line Wilwood valve mounted under the car that I can adjust with the **** adjuster. I think the brake like project came out nice and it is simple, clean, and now the brake lines don't pass millimeters away from any of the hot exhaust headers or rotating steering shaft. I bench bled the master cylinder, and then my wife helped me bleed the whole brake system while checking for leaks. all went well


here is the old brake line mess:





and the new setup:












I started to install the under-hood electrical components (Positive power jump-post, 150 amp circuit breaker, and power distribution block.. but thats about as far as I can go for now.. until the engine arrives in a few weeks, and then I can figure out what wire lengths I need for the array of electrical components.









So, in the meantime.....
I'm struggling to figure out the best choices for my cooling system overhaul. I made a thread about it here..
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...tor-water.html
ANY advice is super appreciated!!!



FYI I am not a mechanic; this is simply a hobby for me.. and I know I got involved in a big project here. So far it is going very well. Lots of research here on TGO and elsewhere has helped.. but I am definitely hoping for some more feedback from the group here! basically, if I am making any bad (or good) choices regarding parts, mechanics, etc, PLEASE let me know. I would rather know about it now and fix whatever I can, instead of troubleshoot a bigger problem later. I know I am going to have some difficulty with the wiring (and eliminating the factory harness/electronics) so I am certainly going to need some help with that.

thanks guys

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I hope to place the order for the cooling system parts at the end of this current week.

- Fans: using stock ones with self-built relays and wiring (have had much advice from Polar Bear with the wiring, he is a huge help) I will use TWO 40 amp relays ..one per fan. fans will be controlled for on/off temps by the holley sniper unit, which is a negative ground trigger ? i think? and then from the +power bus-bar I will use a 6" fusible link wire (14 gauge) connected to a 10 gauge power wire.


- Thermostat and housing - still To be determined...


- Evans waterless coolant: 4 gallons


- Hoses - basic rubber ones from local auto parts store


- coolant expansion tank: an inexpensive fabricated/polished aluminum one, preferably with a single fluid port which is located on the bottom. $20-50 range for this piece, I have to keep looking around though


- water pump: SBC oem style mechanical LONG water pump. in the $100 range for a polished or chrome one that has increased flow and clockwise rotation, Tuff-Stuff makes a bunch (which confuses me), milodon, ac delco also, etc. thoughts? I will be painting and REusing the belts/pulleys/etc from my OEM style 87 accessory drive setup. photos are above when I pulled the motor out a few weeks ago.
Choices:
1. ProForm $120
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...t/model/camaro

2. TuffStuff (one of them) $143
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...t/model/camaro
...note.. I don't know why so many TuffStuff pumps would work and I don't see their differences ?

3. Other? suggestions??


and lastly, radiator: I am pretty set on a 2 row "direct fit" style. I do like the polished and fabricated aluminum style over the oem "stamped" style. I know I will need to trim the rubber mounts a bit; not worried about that. Since I do NOT have $800 for a Dewitts, Griffin, or BeCool......I am very tempted by the 2 row "Chinese ones"

heres my choices:
1. Champion 2 core 3/4" rows $180
https://www.jegs.com/i/Champion-Cool...791+4294829509


2. Cold Case 2 row 1" rows $360
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...t/model/camaro

3. Mishimoto 2 row unknown row width? $3.10
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...t/model/camaro


4. TPIS 2 core 1" rows $345
https://www.tpis.com/parts/view/262



I spoke to Nyes racing engines yesterday, and they are hopeful to have the engine complete or almost complete this week. If so, that would be great. I have almost run out of things to work on under the hood until I have the engine mounted and then comes the wiring process of everything and reassembly of the car.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Update:

got the power steering box back from www.powersteering.com where it got a full rebuild with various new parts. also was blasted and painted. it will certainly tighten up my steering even more, so thats good for autocross and street driving. cost $340 shipped.






worked on some wiring and covered a bunch of wires in new black split-loom. I know there are other options for wire-covering and fancier stuff; however I have not seen anything that I particularly like or want on my car. I do prefer the look and ease of using the oem style plastic split loom, so that's that.






I also spent a good amount of time cleaning most of the bolts, nuts, washers, and hardware on a wire wheel so that when I bolt everything up, the threads are clean.








pulled off the old power steering pump, water pump pulley, crank pulley, brackets, etc. cleaned them up with a wire wheel. Primer and painted. If I had the extra spending money I would get a bunch of new fancy billet pulleys and components; however I do not. I can always add them later on. I am pretty sure my OEM style alternator upper bracket won't work anymore. So I am either going to have to find a new bracket for it, or change over to a Mid-mount setup. I kinda think the mid mount setup would look better, because on the driver's side, the Power steering pump is mid-mounted. therefore mounting the alternator mid-mount on the passenger side would be more visually appealing? All I would need then is a mid-mount bracket setup, and then measure for a different belt? thoughts??




this existing alternator:



I ordered a new water pump. The proForm one fit my budget and has the increased flow. it is "polished" and had good reviews.






I went with a Champion 2 row (1" wide rows) polished aluminum radiator. Many people I have talked to with higher horsepower thirdgens are using this radiator with good success. The engine builder recommended a 160 degree thermostat, so I got a 160 stat from Meziere. Scooter was a big help with getting me to order the proper 40 amp relays, sockets, and wire terminals.. for the two oem fans that will be controlled by the holley sniper.




I have yet to order a coolant expansion tank/overflow tank, as I want to see how the radiator and my wiring sits before ordering a ill-fitting tank. Also, have not ordered a t-stat housing, since possibly mine can be reused? I will be buying new hoses to replace my old ones; however, I don't think lower coolant hoses come with the "spring" inside them anymore.. the metal coil that keeps the hose from collapsing on itself? I would like to use that I would think?











oh, yea,


...




and....






the engine is built, broken-in, dyno tested, and has been shipped to my house as of yesterday!!!


On the dyno it cranked out 531 horsepower and 513 foot pounds of torque N/A !!!




AWESOME










I need to order a few more things in the next few days, and I am sure a few more after that.

Upcoming order includes:

- fuel line heat shielding
- fuel line fittings to get my current -8 and -6 lines to mate up to the sniper
- a oil dipstick, specific one for Dart SHP block LOK-ED-5001 ??
- a nicer disptick for my 700R4 to match the oil dipstick
- oil valvoline VR1 15-40 I guess about 7-8 quarts, some for spare ?
- valve cover breathers exposed element or shielded with metal??
- air filter and air filter housing
- a different throttle cable? I have not done research on this yet..
- a different TV (kickdown) cable ? probably?
- replacement header gaskets for my dyno don's headers. the ones I currently have are Earls # 29DD3B. I don't see why these wont work on the Dart heads?


I am NOT doing anything to hookup the nitrous to this engine for a while. I'll need to get everything else sorted out and get myself comfortable with 531hp/513 tq before even thinking of sending a 200 shot at it.


I think I plan on using my current torque converter too for now. it is an Edge racing 9" converter with 2800 rpm stall. thoughts ? Once the build sheet for the engine gets here with the cam specs, I might call the converter company and see what they recommend I do.


so, thats where I am at currently. I have run out of tasks to work on until the engine actaully arrives, and once it is mounted in the car, I can work on running wiring, fuel lines, exhaust, transmission mounting, etc.