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Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new engine?
Spent a lot of time looking on TGO for info on radiators, water pumps, fans, shrouds, etc. Learned a lot, but still have some questions for the group.
I am having a 525horsepower 406 cid engine built (Dart Block, Dart Pro1 heards, forged internals, roller valvetrain, Holley Sniper TBI) and it will get setup for a 200 shot of nitrous.
I plan to use the existing configuration of front drive accessories from my original 1987 iroc setup..that way i can use the same belts, pulleys, bracketry that I have and which works. So, even though I wont be using the old oem water pump, I will get one exactly like it.
Nothing fancy; nothing electric, just simple. thoughts? suggestions? specific parts that will work perfectly?
I also will definitely be getting a new radiator. I have been suing an oem replacement for the past 13 years and it is time for a nice new fresh aluminum radiator. 2 core or 3 core. perhaps 2 core with 1.25" rows? I want it to be direct fit. Spent a lot of time reading about china made radiators, pinhole leaks, direct fitment, cutting of rubber mounts, etc here on TGO. my radiator budget is about $400-450. The $800 BeCool, Dewitt, Griffin, Ron Davis radiators.. I just don't think I can afford.. but I do need a radiator that will work. I've seen the prices and some feedback on the Cold-Case, Frostbite, Champion radiators and it seems mixed. Also, I do NOT have any A/C condenser, so the cooling inflow of air will pass right through the camaro's grill openings and to the radiator. I also have the oem air-dam in place too. The only thing I have in front of part of the radiator will be the remote mounted B&m transmission cooler.
- i still do think I want the automatic trans cooler feature in the new aluminum radiator, and then the fluid will pass to the secondary B&M cooler... thoughts?
I plan to use my actual OEM dual fans that came on the car. they will be wired to the Holley Sniper and as far as I understand it, they will be controlled and programmable by the holley sniper handheld controller unit as to what temps to turn on and off?
Lastly, since I am going to have an entirely new set of components involved in the cooling system, I wanted to use the Evans waterless coolant. Thoughts on this? Since I'll have all new hoses, engine, radiator, and water pump... I wont need to do the required "flush" required by evans. I'd simply just add/use their waterless coolant? Since the temps it needs to see to "boil over" are tremendous and would melt the engine apart before seeing "boil-over", would I then not need to use/have a coolant overflow tank? Is that a real thing? or did I just mis-read it online somewhere? The waterless coolant operates at a very low psi so the coolant system is not subject to pressure which can develop leaks etc. is the evans coolant worth the investment now since I will have a completely new/dry system to start with?
To recap.. I have questions and am asking for recommendations on cooling a 525 hp (plus 200 nitrous)small block in my 1987 iroc camaro that will be used for drag racing, street duty, autocross, road course, car shows, and long drives. $ Budget is an important factor, and everything should be as close to direct fit as possible. I am looking for advice on a radiator, water pump, coolant, need for an overflow tank, and if my fans will be ok. a link to my ongoing car build project is here in case you have questions.. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...rior-next.html
thanks guys. trust me I did search and research for a while. I just want to make sure I get this all correct.
Last edited by IROCZman15; 01-22-2020 at 11:21 PM.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by IROCZman15
Lastly, since I am going to have an entirely new set of components involved in the cooling system, I wanted to use the Evans waterless coolant. Thoughts on this? Since I'll have all new hoses, engine, radiator, and water pump... I wont need to do the required "flush" required by evans. I'd simply just add/use their waterless coolant? Since the temps it needs to see to "boil over" are tremendous and would melt the engine apart before seeing "boil-over", would I then not need to use/have a coolant overflow tank? Is that a real thing? or did I just mis-read it online somewhere? The waterless coolant operates at a very low psi so the coolant system is not subject to pressure which can develop leaks etc. is the evans coolant worth the investment now since I will have a completely new/dry system to start with?
I run Evans waterless in my car. You still need an overflow unless you run the system like an old car where the radiator is only partially full all the time. Like any other liquid, the waterless is still subject to expansion from heat.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
thanks Scooter. much appreciated I'll plan on getting a very small overflow tank with a bottom inlet/outlet hole.
..but the problem i'm coming into is that not many have a bottom hole. almost all that I find, the hole/port is on the top. ALSO, the hole is almost always on the right side. the way I am hoping to place/configure my tank, the hole/port needs to be on the LEFT side. a quick google search will show ya. what the heck, why do they build them all on the right side and with the port up high on the tank??
anyone else have thoughts on the radiator, fans, water pump, etc? any help and advice is much appreciated. also, I have NO heat or heater core or any of that in the car. no hvac whatsoever so all related hoses and features related to that are non-existent. simply just need a radiator with upper and lower and expansion ports, as well as ATF cooler ports.
I am looking do do the whole entire cooling system project for about $800 in total.
Last edited by IROCZman15; 01-23-2020 at 09:21 PM.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
I hope to place the order for the cooling system parts at the end of this current week.
- Fans: using stock ones with self-built relays and wiring (have had much advice from Scooter with the wiring, he is a huge help) I will use TWO 40 amp relays ..one per fan. fans will be controlled for on/off temps by the holley sniper unit, which is a negative ground trigger ? i think? and then from the +power bus-bar I will use a 6" fusible link wire (14 gauge) connected to a 10 gauge power wire.
- Thermostat and housing - still To be determined...
- Evans waterless coolant: 4 gallons
- Hoses - basic rubber ones from local auto parts store
- coolant expansion tank: an inexpensive fabricated/polished aluminum one, preferably with a single fluid port which is located on the bottom. $20-50 range for this piece, but maybe this champion one: https://www.championradiators.com/3x9_overflow_tank yet, I have to keep looking around though.
- water pump: SBC oem style mechanical LONG water pump. in the $100 range for a polished or chrome one that has increased flow and clockwise rotation, Tuff-Stuff makes a bunch (which confuses me), milodon, ac delco also, etc. thoughts? I will be painting and REusing the belts/pulleys/etc from my OEM style 87 accessory drive setup. photos are above when I pulled the motor out a few weeks ago.
Choices:
1. ProForm $120 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...t/model/camaro
and lastly, radiator: I am pretty set on a 2 row "direct fit" style. I do like the polished and fabricated aluminum style over the oem "stamped" style. I know I will need to trim the rubber mounts a bit; not worried about that. Since I do NOT have $800 for a Dewitts, Griffin, or BeCool......I am very tempted by the 2 row "Chinese ones"
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
I was happy with my EMP/Stewart water pump. Not sure on quality on them these days, or them compared to others
Link for reference only since I don't remember what accessory setup you have https://www.summitracing.com/search/...rder=Ascending
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
cool, thanks man. that is a good option too. I could always paint it a nice silver color too.
it looks like this one would fit my 1987 sbc accessory setup, which is what I plan to bolt up to the new dart block. https://www.summitracing.com/search/...art-components
its between that one and the Proform one i linked above
I guess a very basic simple T-stat housing water neck too. Nothing that swivels, and nothing billet is needed. probably a $30 cast one holding a 180degreee thermostat. ?
oh jeez, I am not sure if you are joking or not.. but thats like the opposite of what i want! too expensive, and it swivels. and its for a Big block chevy!! ?
was thinking basic. polished would be nice, but nothing too fancy and nothing to expensive. it just has to do its job.
no, I cant think of anything I would need a fitting for at the thermostat housing. So a plain simple (maybe polished) one will work. I am guessing a 180 deg thermostat?
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
I've put about 5,000 miles on my new Champion 3 row aluminum radiator and flex a lite 480 programmable dual electric fans. No more cooling issues, temp stays below 200 (fans kick in) and no leaks. Only issue I've had is the fan motor housings have developed rust spots. I contacted Summit and they agreed to replace the fan unit with free shipping included. LS1, 4L60E, 400HP, tested in the south Texas heat.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
that is one clean engine bay! Looks great. I think I may go with the American eagle radiator as well. Its funny, it looks identical to the champion and the frostbite. I think they are all made in the same factory.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Not meaning to hijack this thread but did the Stewart long pump bolt right in with no belt alignment issues? Go online and see different heights for stock GM and Stewart and different site will show they are the same? Thanks in advance.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by ToolGuru
Not meaning to hijack this thread but did the Stewart long pump bolt right in with no belt alignment issues? Go online and see different heights for stock GM and Stewart and different site will show they are the same? Thanks in advance.
sorry, I missed your post. I actually did not go with a Stewart water pump. I think Scooter has one on one of his cars. I'd say reach out to him here or on a PM.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
small update: after a year of pretty heavy street, drag, autocross and general aggressive driving my radiator has done its job of cooling AWESOME. zero complaints performance wise. However it has developed a small pinhole leak and is leaking my Evans waterloss coolant out slowly. I contacted Champion and they stated that since I have a lifetime warranty on the radiator, I could pay to ship it back and then they will ship me a replacement. i asked them if I could wait until winter time when the car is completley off the road, and they said sure! So that is promising, will let you all know how it goes.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by 91banditt2
How much of a direct fit was this radiator? I'm assuming you had to trim the rubber shock absorbers? Any issues with radiator shroud?
I actually wound up going with a stock replacement OSC brand radiator from Rockauto. I also picked up dual 4thgen LS1 fans. This setup has been plenty to keep my LS3 swap nice and cool. Aluminum LS engines actually need less cooling than the old iron blocks. Our 3rd gen radiators are beefier than 5th gen LS3 radiators so i figured it was plenty and only cost 100 bucks. I read a lot of good reviews of OSC and their radiators. They appear to be very well constructed stock replacements. So far so good and far less expensive than an all aluminum unit.
Last edited by Sdmodified; 03-15-2021 at 01:38 PM.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
my radiator was indeed a direct fit, the only thing I had to do was shave a little bit off the rubber pads. hardly any effort at all. my radiator has developed a very slow pinhole leak somewhere that i can not see (despite searching many times). I have been in contact with the guys at Champion and in April I am due to get a replacement radiator for free ( minus shopping). radiators have been in short supply there in California due to the pandemic, so I have had to wait. I don't like leaks anywhere, so I would like to have it leak-free.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by IROCZman15
my radiator was indeed a direct fit, the only thing I had to do was shave a little bit off the rubber pads. hardly any effort at all. my radiator has developed a very slow pinhole leak somewhere that i can not see (despite searching many times). I have been in contact with the guys at Champion and in April I am due to get a replacement radiator for free ( minus shopping). radiators have been in short supply there in California due to the pandemic, so I have had to wait. I don't like leaks anywhere, so I would like to have it leak-free.
For radiators this seems the best bang for the buck, 2 row all aluminum and under $200?
Is Champion based in California? How long has it been since first contact with them about your leak?
Looks like your using an external trans cooler in conjunction with the radiator trans cooler, what size barb fittings are you using there, 5/16 NPT?
I'd like to keep my factory single fan, I'm assuming it's safe to assume that I wouldn't have any issues there?
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by 91banditt2
For radiators this seems the best bang for the buck, 2 row all aluminum and under $200?
Is Champion based in California? How long has it been since first contact with them about your leak?
Looks like your using an external trans cooler in conjunction with the radiator trans cooler, what size barb fittings are you using there, 5/16 NPT?
I'd like to keep my factory single fan, I'm assuming it's safe to assume that I wouldn't have any issues there?
The Specs on Jegs website says these are 1/2-20 threads, I called Jegs and they confirmed that the trans cooler connections are 1/2-20 inverted flare. I saw Teflon tape on your top barb fitting, I’m assuming this is just a straight thread fitting not a flared fitting?
Last edited by 91banditt2; 03-16-2021 at 02:43 PM.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
yes. the price tag on this was great. fit and finish was great. if it wasn't for the pinhole leak (yet to be found) this radiator would rock! I actually like the fabricated look as opposed to the stamped look for my car's setup. I cant remember about the fittings. all I know is that I re-used the fittings that were in my previous OEM style radiator. The hose size and barb size for the trans cooler lines should be exactly the same. I do use a secondary B&M trans fluid cooler too. It has been since fall when i first brought up the leak to them. Covid did a number on the radiator production out there (allegedly). I do have faith that they will make good on their lifetime warranty. I keep in touch with them every few weeks, it does not seem like they are just blowing smoke. I don't see why you would have an issue with a single fan; should be fine.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
how did ya order it? I was told they were out of stock on 2 row radiators until early April. Did you get it direct from Champion or elsewhere through a different vendor?
YI hope you will like it. I like mine. was fantastic until the small pinhole leak that I can not find still.
Re: Affordable aluminum radiator, water pump, and evans waterless coolant for new eng
Originally Posted by IROCZman15
how did ya order it? I was told they were out of stock on 2 row radiators until early April. Did you get it direct from Champion or elsewhere through a different vendor?
YI hope you will like it. I like mine. was fantastic until the small pinhole leak that I can not find still.
i ordered my from Jegs through Amazon, Amazon credit card,
01-22-2020, 11:15 PM
