Ok, so maybe I'll only ever see the back of my mom's corvette.. or my dad's, for that matter, but this is my first Real Sports Car, although I hesitate to say that. On a 50 degree+ day back in the beginning of December, in Northern Indiana, I bought my first Camaro. It was probably more inspired by the weather than the car itself, but I've got the car now, and I'd like to know how-to-fix-it. I know all you guys out there , on your third or fifth or tenth muscle car remember your first, and this is mine. I'd appreciate any help or advise you've got.

To start with, it's a 1987 Coupe with a 305 4bbl. Instead of the standard O/D (700R4?) transmission, it's been transplanted with a 3spd auto from an F-Body Firebird. When I bought the car, it had no air cleaner (not just the filter, the entire assembly was gone), needed tires terribly, and to be quite honest I wasn't sure if the tranny was gonna hold up at all. Making a long story shorter, the car started dieseling after I had the title... turn the ignition off and it's still turning, I can't get it to stop and the car overheats! Not only did the thermostat need replaced (I smoked out and dropped antifreeze all over a Pep Boys parking lot), it turned out that the cooling fan would only come on if the heater was on. I've got tires, and a stock air cleaner from a 65 vette, changed the oil, cap&rotor, plugs&wires. Now I need help.. and along the way, I found thirdgen.org

Before I go back to stock with the air cleaner assembly (it's $400 from a dealer), I wanted to know what anyone thought about it anyway. Can I get a dual snorkle system off any ole f-body and fit it under my hood? Do I really need the snorkle at all? The air cleaner on my dad's vette, if you can call it an air cleaner, is really only a dressy chrome box that covers up the tri's. Will the universal GM bottom plate and K&N filter work fine as they are, just sitting on top of the carb, or do I need to bring air in from a snorkle?

Question number two regards the transmission... since it's been switched out from a four- to a three speed, is my speedometer inaccurate? Wouldn't the change in the gearing throw it off? Is there any way I can calculate how far off it is? Most importantly, how can I fix it?

Here's some numbers, in case they help

First to Second - Shift at 1400, 15mph
Second to Third - Shift at 1250, 22mph

In Third Gear, at 1500 rpm, speedo says 42
at 2000 rpm, speedo says 54
at 2500 rpm, speedo says 65

And even though the spedometer only covers to 85mph, I can take it wayyy past that.

Now those numbers are if I only give it enough gas to creep up, if I open the throttle wider, you can barely even feel second gear, it's *almost* but not quite like going from first to third, and that happens in the 25-30mph range.

Now a few carbeurator questions... I had a problem with my car idling at a crazy 2500rpm, but I think that was something like "vapor lock" where the car (and it's low level of fuel) had been sitting for a long time. I'm past that now, but the car still idles at 1100-1200rpm, even when it's warm. It starts great out of the cold, reving anywhere as high as 1750 but dropping quickly to the 1200 range. When I shift into drive, the tach drops to like 500, maybe lower. Is that normal, or does my idle speed need adjusted?

Last question regards the cooling system. Someone messed the wiring up pretty good throughout the car, and right now I'm contemplating running a toggle switch through my fire wall for my cooling fan, which I have to manually connect to my battery anytime I need to use it. If I were to do the toggle switch, I should flip it on somewhere within 20 degrees of my thermostat rating, correct? That should give it plenty of time to warm the engine (keeping in mind it's very cold in Indiana right now), without even thinking about over-heating. Has anyone ever done this? Or should I try to go back to the original configuration? And since we're on the subject, what's a normal temp range for oil and water for you guys?

I think that's everything I've really come up with questions for in the last month.. if you've got any or all answers, they're very much appreciated..

Hoping my first Camaro experience will be a (fun) educational one,

James

 

as such..but.. if the speedo does not have the right gear both on the cable and internally in the 350 trans, it will not read right. You will need to find out what gear ratio you have to be sure to know what to change.

Idling at 500 in gear is not that bad.. as long as it does not die.

Temps vary. It should be at least 180 and slightly below 205 for a non computer car. See if you can find a thermostat to control the fan.
like this
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=74413

 

Your idle is a little high, so I would adjust your idle speed screw.

It sounds as if you've got a nightmare on your hands, so good luck with it. You do, however have the lightest body available on the thirdgen body style. That old carbed 305 should actually run pretty well with the proper exhaust and in good tune. My first bit of advice is to try removing the emissions junk. Not only will it save weight, but will also remove a load from your engine.

What are your plans for the car? Are you wanting to drop in a larger engine, or are you wanting to mod your 305?

Good luck,
Chris

 

Originally posted by dps8315
To start with, it's a 1987 Coupe with a 305 4bbl. Instead of the standard O/D (700R4?) transmission, it's been transplanted with a 3spd auto from an F-Body Firebird. When I bought the car, it had no air cleaner (not just the filter, the entire assembly was gone), needed tires terribly, and to be quite honest I wasn't sure if the tranny was gonna hold up at all. Making a long story shorter, the car started dieseling after I had the title... turn the ignition off and it's still turning, I can't get it to stop and the car overheats! Not only did the thermostat need replaced (I smoked out and dropped antifreeze all over a Pep Boys parking lot), it turned out that the cooling fan would only come on if the heater was on. I've got tires, and a stock air cleaner from a 65 vette, changed the oil, cap&rotor, plugs&wires. Now I need help.. and along the way, I found thirdgen.org

dieseling usually occurs due to improper timing and running it hard and shutting it down to fast.
adjust your timing and make sure your cooling sys works fine (ie. fix the cooling fan).

Before I go back to stock with the air cleaner assembly (it's $400 from a dealer), I wanted to know what anyone thought about it anyway. Can I get a dual snorkle system off any ole f-body and fit it under my hood? Do I really need the snorkle at all? The air cleaner on my dad's vette, if you can call it an air cleaner, is really only a dressy chrome box that covers up the tri's. Will the universal GM bottom plate and K&N filter work fine as they are, just sitting on top of the carb, or do I need to bring air in from a snorkle?

lots of people are running duel snorkles or open element filters.
search the archives to see what exactly they are using.

[B]Question number two regards the transmission... since it's been switched out from a four- to a three speed, is my speedometer inaccurate? Wouldn't the change in the gearing throw it off? Is there any way I can calculate how far off it is? Most importantly, how can I fix it? [B/]

some of the early 80s cameros came with th350s.
yes, your speedometer will probably be off.
check this website to find out how much.
https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/t...ulations.shtml
it should work fine as long as you have a vacume line hitched up and the tv cable adjusted correctly.
you won't have an overdrive though, and to go back to a 700R-4,
you will need the tranny and a drive shft.
you may want to leave the 350 if the wiring is as messed up as you say.

And even though the spedometer only covers to 85mph, I can take it wayyy past that.

typical.

Now those numbers are if I only give it enough gas to creep up, if I open the throttle wider, you can barely even feel second gear, it's *almost* but not quite like going from first to third, and that happens in the 25-30mph range.

check tv cable adjustment.

Now a few carbeurator questions... I had a problem with my car idling at a crazy 2500rpm, but I think that was something like "vapor lock" where the car (and it's low level of fuel) had been sitting for a long time. I'm past that now, but the car still idles at 1100-1200rpm, even when it's warm. It starts great out of the cold, reving anywhere as high as 1750 but dropping quickly to the 1200 range. When I shift into drive, the tach drops to like 500, maybe lower. Is that normal, or does my idle speed need adjusted?

sounds more like dirt.
set the timing, use some carb cleaner.
set the choke and idle speed and you should be fine.

Last question regards the cooling system. Someone messed the wiring up pretty good throughout the car, and right now I'm contemplating running a toggle switch through my fire wall for my cooling fan, which I have to manually connect to my battery anytime I need to use it. If I were to do the toggle switch, I should flip it on somewhere within 20 degrees of my thermostat rating, correct? That should give it plenty of time to warm the engine (keeping in mind it's very cold in Indiana right now), without even thinking about over-heating. Has anyone ever done this? Or should I try to go back to the original configuration? And since we're on the subject, what's a normal temp range for oil and water for you guys?

toggle switches are a bat idea on critical systems.
they are so easy to forget to turn on.
you could easily overheat your car without realizing it.
try to fix the fan if possible.
if you can't figure out the wiring, there is aftermarket switches that just let power flow through when it reaches a certain temp.
others would just say to hitch the fan up so it is aljways on with the ignition.

good luck

 

jcb - a therm with a fan control switch is a nice idea, but if the thermostat falters, what good does the sensor controlling the fan do you? That's why I thought a toggle wasn't a bad idea - I'm always checking my gauges, so when the car warms up to the 180 (or maybe a little before) I can switch the fan on myself..

Chris, I knew when I bought the car that it was a mess. Anything that doesn't have some of the vitals on it that this car was missing..probably needs some work. I have a friendly family ASE tech that told me the block sounded great, and to tell ya the honest truth, it sounds as smooth as the odometer says - 30,000 miles (title says it too, but i'm on the assumption it's a rollover).

I thought honestly about removing most of the emissions garbage, but how much weight will I really save? - More importantly, am I trading reliability for performance? Those are kinda rhetorical since I want to do the removal anyway..
Will my check engine light come on permanantly if I make removals like that?

I plan to mod the 305.. after the emissions garbage, i'm looking for a place to start, but I can't decide if I want to work with exhaust and headers first.

I think I'll be working with the timing&idle thursday morning, after I hit up an auto-parts store for either the t-stat-sensor setup or toggle switch..

Thanks for the input guys

James