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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Now that I narrowed down the issue with my car stalling at times when under electrical load, idling, AC on, Headlights, and aftermarket stereo amplifier, I need a higher output alternator to keep the power levels up with my aftermarket stereo. I went on Summit Racing and they appear to have some alternators that state fit a 91' Camaro with serpentine belt system. Does anybody have any alternator recommendations or experience with drop in replacements that offer higher output?
Now that I narrowed down the issue with my car stalling at times when under electrical load, idling, AC on, Headlights, and aftermarket stereo amplifier, I need a higher output alternator to keep the power levels up with my aftermarket stereo. I went on Summit Racing and they appear to have some alternators that state fit a 91' Camaro with serpentine belt system. Does anybody have any alternator recommendations or experience with drop in replacements that offer higher output?
Following. Sorry I don’t have any recommendations, but I’m having the same issue after getting stronger fans for my ls car.
Powermaster is hot garbage. Been through that - look up my product review on their XS-Volt model. Don't even both with CS-130's. China is the only source for CS-130 internals and the quality is the same plastic garbage from every supplier of CS-130 alternators simply due to the internal parts available to build them.
Call DC Power Engineering. They have a drop-in that uses a much newer design with a billet CS-130 compatible front cover:
Vote for Mechman 240 amp alt. Have it in my 92 and this thing ist a little nuclear power plant. It's a direct fit for 88-92 models and comes with the needed adapter fot the two or three wire plug. I upgraded to I/0 battery cables from Innovative Wiring, the factory door bell cable is too small to handle the load.
What the last two posts said is you also need to replace the alternator cable. The factory one is too small and will cause voltage drop, heat up, and may melt the back of your alternator as it did on mine :-). Bump up to at least a 4 gauge battery cable. I went with a 2 gauge for my 200 amp alternator. The improvement was very noticeable. I used a 48" one from Autozone. 100 amps is a lot of amps. The voltage doesn't matter. 200 amps is that much more. The quality of each connection (grounds included) is very important with that many amps.
I ordered the Powermaster from Summit before I saw your post. I can send it back. I was looking at the DC Power Engineering and they almost $600 for alternator. I just as soon ditch the 2 12" subs for that cost. lol.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Jul 3, 2020 at 11:58 PM.
Vote for Mechman 240 amp alt. Have it in my 92 and this thing ist a little nuclear power plant. It's a direct fit for 88-92 models and comes with the needed adapter fot the two or three wire plug. I upgraded to I/0 battery cables from Innovative Wiring, the factory door bell cable is too small to handle the load.
No bracket needed. Its a direct fit to the original 88-92 mounting location. What you see in my pics is the original mounting bracket, just powdercoated.
I bought the 200 amp Powermaster from Summit for my stock 89 L98. It is not a drop in replacement. The front two holes line up but I needed to get creative with the bolts. Also, the rear bracket needs to be reworked but I got it in. GD's comments have me a bit worried but so far everything is working great.
My first Powermaster lasted 3 months. Summit exchanged it no problem. Replacement lasted 9 month. I tore it down to put their quality on blast because it irked me to no end. I also repaired their junk to better than new and stuck it in a customer's box truck (93 P30 chassis). I had one of their starters also that lasted 6 months on my stock 305. Couldn't repair that one - it was just a mangled pile of chinese recycled sewer pipe, used condoms, and tears of aborted female fetuses..... You get what you pay for. In Powermaster's defense (if you can call it defensible) you can't source quality parts for the CS130. Believe me I tried when I repaired that junk.
The DC power offering is a 180 amp and can be anodized in your choice of color. Fitment is perfect and it's a small case alternator that looks more appropriately sized compared to stock.
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; Jul 4, 2020 at 12:04 PM.
My first Powermaster lasted 3 months. Summit exchanged it no problem. Replacement lasted 9 month. I tore it down to put their quality on blast because it irked me to no end. I also repaired their junk to better than new and stuck it in a customer's box truck (93 P30 chassis). I had one of their starters also that lasted 6 months on my stock 305. Couldn't repair that one - it was just a mangled pile of chinese recycled sewer pipe, used condoms, and tears of aborted female fetuses..... You get what you pay for. In Powermaster's defense (if you can call it defensible) you can't source quality parts for the CS130. Believe me I tried when I repaired that junk.
The DC power offering is a 180 amp and can be anodized in your choice of color. Fitment is perfect and it's a small case alternator that looks more appropriately sized compared to stock.
GD
Nice looking unit. How do you like that FIRST intake? What else do you have done besides headers? I have a set of Dyno Don's headers to go on next, but need and intake to support heads and cam and future 383 cid.
I bought the 200 amp Powermaster from Summit for my stock 89 L98. It is not a drop in replacement. The front two holes line up but I needed to get creative with the bolts. Also, the rear bracket needs to be reworked but I got it in. GD's comments have me a bit worried but so far everything is working great.
I will most likely return it back to Summit. I have the stereo amplifier disconnected and although I can still hear the alternator strain or whine with the AC, Headlights, Brakes on, while shifting between D and R or P to R the idle gets to 500 rpms but it no longer dies. The test was all of that and then turn the steering wheel, I could hear the load on the engine cause the issue (change in Alternator whine/RPM change) and that is when the car would die (after operating temp) that was the only issue and it was a bugger to isolate it.
I'm thinking the PM 140 would work, I could try it and if it craps out I can send back. I will probably go with the Mechman that was mentioned above as it looks to be the best value for an upgraded unit. The unit GD has is superior but I'm not looking to spend $600 on an alternator. I will also upgrade the gauge of wire leading to the battery. After observing the stock wire it pretty thin wire to carry current.
Nice looking unit. How do you like that FIRST intake? What else do you have done besides headers? I have a set of Dyno Don's headers to go on next, but need and intake to support heads and cam and future 383 cid.
The FIRST intake is great as are the Dyno Don headers and y-pipe, etc. It's on a built 350 Vortec with cam, valve train, etc. It's about 400 HP. You can check out my thread on the dyno results, etc. The FIRST intake can support much more - Ken has customers with a lot more cubes that are up over 600 HP naturally aspirated.
I'm thinking the PM 140 would work, I could try it and if it craps out I can send back. I will probably go with the Mechman that was mentioned above as it looks to be the best value for an upgraded unit. The unit GD has is superior but I'm not looking to spend $600 on an alternator. I will also upgrade the gauge of wire leading to the battery. After observing the stock wire it pretty thin wire to carry current.
The quality remains long after the price is forgotten.
Here's my teardown and repair on the Powermaster unit:
Quality electrical components cost money. OEM starters and alternators are typically $500 to $700 at the dealership and are nowhere near the capacity of the DC Power unit. My Meziere starter was also $600 but it can be fully rebuilt with bendix and solenoid available inexpensively from the manufacturer - and is rated for engines up to 700 cubes! Also both the DC Power and Meziere are made in the US so you are supporting a US based business building high quality non-disposable parts with US sourced components where possible (unlike Powermaster). Same goes for FIRST performance, and Dyno Don. It feels good to be helping my fellow skilled Americans. And as a small business owner I do what I can to return the favor. I buy and recommend the best, and strive for the highest quality work in everything we touch at my shop.
Well, I'm a little relieved. I read GD's Powermaster thread and turns out I went with a CS144 size. Doesn't at all look like the 130 model. I also did not go for the XS version. The CS144 is much larger and much heavier than my CS130 AC Delco Professional one that burned out so I am hoping there is more than just case size to the internals.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; Jul 7, 2020 at 03:35 PM.
Was that Street Alternator a drop in unit? I used the PM XS-Volt because I needed it over the weekend. It completely resolved the car stalling at idle issue that was occurring when I would drop it into D or R and crank the wheel. I let the engine come up to temp, turned on everything full blast AC, Headlights, Stereo, and then tried to get it to stall and nothing...kept on running. So I will use this until burns up and then return it under warranty. Then buy something better the next time around like one of the ones listed above. I subscribed to this thread thanks to everybody for chiming with recommedations...truly appreciate it.
I was able to use the front two bolts locations but I needed a new (longer) upper bolt, nut, and ground down washer as the alternator has no threads in its housing. I was able to mount and use the alternator without the rear brace but the conventional wisdom here was that it is needed over time. I ended up removing and bending/fabricating the old brace but it wasn't without effort (I heated and pounded a bigger flat area on one end (yes blacksmithing I think), then drilled a new mounting hole, and after a little bending, got it in.
One other nice side benefit of the DC Power and Mechman units are they have internal fans. It's a bit safer and cleaner without the fan out there trying to snag on fingers, cuffs and loose clothing. Not a huge deal but I prefer an internal fan.
I've personally used about a half dozen of the DC Power units for various applications and haven't had a single issue. I really hate seeing people support Powermaster after the quality issues I've seen. It's pretty obvious what their game is.
I agree completely GD. So much garbage out there. I'll bet in the complete accounting of all other costs (price, failures, lost time, additional service cost and time, etc), poor quality parts often cost much more than fronting the money for a quality part. These junk dealers have a business model based on luck, consumer pursuit of warranties, and sheer volume.
Coming from the car audio world before I got into 3rd gens the only alternators I would trust are DC Power and Mechman. Cheap HO alternators typically don't do very well at idle. Also look into doing "the big 3" which is basically an upgrade of charging cable and grounds which can benefit even a stock alternator. Use the biggest high quality OFC cable you can fit and you should be set.
I know when I got my alt it came with a spec card. Idle amps, idle amps hot and then max amps and max amps hot. Mechman was really easy to deal with on the phone. I would have delt with DC power as well if I had to but it didnt turn out that way. Hear alot of good things about those 2 companies. I did try to deal with 2 other companies out there , forget the names. But the interaction was terrible and one actually told me I had to modify the factory bracket, no thanks. They both lost the sale in the first minute on the phone.
Yep. Other than waiting about 3 months for my special Orange anodizing (totally worth it), DC Power has always been excellent to deal with including rushing an alternator we needed for our booth car at one of the local events.
Do the DC and the Mechman alternators have the provision for the brace that goes from the rear alternator to the exhaust manifold?
Basically nothing but a completely stock alt is going to have that. If you feel it's needed you have to make your own. Which is the case with many cars already if you have headers, etc. Modifications are required to modify your car....... yep.
The Mechman 81657240 240 amp looks like a great deal. If I thought I could return my Powermaster to Summit and go with this, I would.
You can get these in any color combination anodized and colored pulleys. Just ask them on the phone when you call. I was going to go with the 240 amp but for my application and racing it they recommended the 170 amp. Think it makes 140 at idle. I dont have any kind of stereo. That orange DC alt looks really nice too.
Reading the description on Mechman's site..... I wonder about this (certainly wouldn't work for my 6000 RPM Vortec): "(not recommended for use above 5,000 RPM engine speed)"
The other factor is that I don't really like the "large" case units. Mechman doesn't seem to list a CS130 in their 170 amp line with the smaller case sizes. They look like a big wart that's too tall off the bracket. Just a preference thing and if you need that much power you'll just have to live with it.
Reading the description on Mechman's site..... I wonder about this (certainly wouldn't work for my 6000 RPM Vortec): "(not recommended for use above 5,000 RPM engine speed)"
The other factor is that I don't really like the "large" case units. Mechman doesn't seem to list a CS130 in their 170 amp line with the smaller case sizes. They look like a big wart that's too tall off the bracket. Just a preference thing and if you need that much power you'll just have to live with it.
GD
They recommended the 170 amp unit for high hp +rpm. I have that one. Mine is smaller than stock by a tad.
Last edited by IROCZ1989; Jul 21, 2020 at 07:22 PM.
...Bump up to at least a 4 gauge battery cable. I went with a 2 gauge for my 200 amp alternator. The improvement was very noticeable. I used a 48" one from Autozone...
Do you have the part number for it? I tried to see if my local AZ had one, but couldn't find a direct fit there or online.
All else fails, probably just go to Rock Auto and get a Delco replacement for a 2000 Silverado and do the AD244 conversion.
140 amp.
I've had mine for over a year now I think... never goes before 14.2V even at idle. Its feeding my 2 speed Taurus electric fan, EFI, stereo, etc, even at night with all the lights on.
Got the Mechman in. Too bad it is DOA. Nice looking paperweight. Checked everything. Should be charging. I will contact their tech support on Monday.
That's a known problem on 89-92 cars. You have to swap the green and the yellow wire on their adaptor harness vice versa. Then it works. Ran into that myself on my 92 and figured it out after half an hour of head scratching... because in my 88 it worked flawless. I thought I must be a complete fool, but on 88 cars you have different wiring on the connector than 89-92.
Holy cow. I will give this a go. I tried to find internals for the alternator but no go. I figured it was something like this. They are going to get an earful on Monday as to WHY I wasn't provided this info. I will swap the green and yellow and report back.
Holy cow. I will give this a go. I tried to find internals for the alternator but no go. I figured it was something like this. They are going to get an earful on Monday as to WHY I wasn't provided this info. I will swap the green and yellow and report back.
Yup, I bet this will work. I reported this issue to mechman support (which answered within three minutes!) and got a reply that the are thankful and they will tell the technicians... That was in April... it seems that they didn't. The "L" terminal on the mechman alternator needs to be connected to the "F" terminal on the original alternator plug. On 88 cars you have three wires on the connector plug, on 89-92 just two. And that's the problem.
Weird..... mine is an 86 but with a serpentine conversion and I swapped to the serpentine connector on the car side, then used the DC Power adapter and had no issues. The DC alt has 4 terminals, the adapter only has 3 wires, and the car side only has 2 of those that actually pass through to pins with wires. The adapter I got from DC Power has 4 pins on either side, but only uses three wires - one of the 4 is cut off flush with the car side adapter..... they must have figured out what I was doing because I told them to base their alternator build on an '89 because that's how I wired it when I converted to serpentine......
I have to say - DC Power is smaller and a little more "custom" in the way they do stuff. When you call you usually talk to the same guy - I think the guy that I usually talk to is the owner. They asked plenty of questions when I ordered (phone order) and likely used this information to pull up a wiring diagram. That's my guess anyway because I am wired for an 89 and their adapter worked out of the box.
GD
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; Aug 1, 2020 at 09:32 PM.
I reported this issue to mechman support (which answered within three minutes!) and got a reply that the are thankful and they will tell the technicians... That was in April... it seems that they didn't. The "L" terminal on the mechman alternator needs to be connected to the "F" terminal on the original alternator plug. On 88 cars you have three wires on the connector plug, on 89-92 just two. And that's the problem.