So try to make this long story short. Basically where I'm currently at is the car(74k mile 1989 GTA 350 pictured) has a rough erratic idle and surges when in gear and usually dies doing so. I unplug the EST and the car smooths out and does not die when in gear also runs out great to at least 70mph, the highest I've taken it. Last codes where 32 & 33 before cleared.
The long part car was stored for 17+ years and between me and the mechanic the below has already been done/replaced with AC Delco or comparable when possible-
Entire fuel system-pump regulator, injectors, tank, filter, lines
IAC
TPS
Vacuum lines checked and replaced(most) where needed
Complete tune up-Cap, rotor, plugs, wires, PCV valves
MAF-Bosch unit borrowed off my 1988 GTA 350(tried it because of the lack of new and code 33)
Temp sensor
Upper & Lower Intake gaskets, valve cover gaskets, pan gasket, rear main seal, all fresh fluids, belts, all freeze plugs, radiator, hoses, water pump, brakes, rotors, pads, lines, tires, exhaust
Reset ECM and cleared codes 32 & 33 that have yet to come back
Not done yet- EGR valve(new temp sensor and wire though), EGR solenoid, original distributor, coil, ICM, and ECM. I do plan on perhaps borrowing these from my 1988 as well perhaps, especially the Vacuum EGR solenoid(aka unobtainium), ECM because of convenience and maybe the MSD coil.
Yet to put in new heater coil and rebuild the front end, shocks, struts, bushings, etc..
So know I've put a lot of new parts but they where all necessary after years of setting. That said probably forgot some things. Not really looking to toss parts at the car but more of a helpful solution. I know this far in what's a few more $$$, but not totally the point prefer to know what's happening and learn on it. Know there are tons of these threads but all seem to dead end or end with different solutions. Any troubleshooting from the FSM would be extremely helpful.
Thank you all for the long read and look forward to any advice.
FWIW I will post the final solution once it's worked out.

 

So you want troubleshooting from the factory service manual, but you don't have one? IAC and TPS set correctly? I would start with the basics; check fuel pressure, get a datalog, smoke test intake for vacuum leaks.

 

Indeed, it would. Step-by-step troubleshooting is a lengthy and detail-oriented process, something that few here would likely take the time to post.

To anyone in your situation my first, best piece of advice is to obtain a copy of the FSM. They can often be found on ebay, craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc. I've seen reference on this site to an online source for a downloadable copy, but have no idea where that might be found, or even if it's viable.

 

Appreciate it, I do have a pdf copy of a 1988 service manual and going to give it a shot. I know things changed such as the '89 has Vats but hopefully will get me close. I do have some health issues that limit some abilities hence the mechanic help. I'm also what we use to call a "shade tree mechanic". Believe the term is Google mechanic now. So my knowledge is limited as I grew up working more on '60s, 70's, and earlier 80s stuff. When I drove 3rd gens back then they where much newer and didn't usually need much beyond an alternator, starter, water pump, or something basic or where under warranty. So researching and learning to what my ability, tools, and skills set will allow. Would like to have it running right before my next surgery at the end of the month, otherwise will be a bit before I can get back to it.
I could also probably use a good obd1 reader or software if anybody has any thoughts. I have HP Tuners for my 5th gens but I'm not exactly proficient with it either, defiantly helpful on the new stuff though.
Thanks again!

 

IAC and TPS are set correctly.
Fuel pressre is good, pulled the vacuum from the regulator no fuel in it.
No vacuum leaks found
Don't have a way to data log, any thoughts or links to good software and hardware? I'm not great with my HP Tuner on the new stuff but can log and do a few things. Just always have someone better than I set parameters to look at then they review them. You volunteering to help be this person if I get the equipment?

 

I used a cable from Moates.net (no longer in business), you might try a unit from 1320electronics.com. I would recommend not attempting to use products from Red Devil River, they stole my buddy's money and never shipped his cable. TunerPro on a PC can do datalogging, I had success using ALDLdroid and my phone. I would certainly have a look at your log, see if anything stands out.

 

Much appreciated I will check into the ones you recommended and stay away from the Red Devil. I did look up Moates last week since I read about them on the forums and saw the message where they went out of business recently. Would you recommend one in particular like TunerPro? Saw a few discussing that software as well.
EDIT-
So 1320 is out of stock on all except this one. I know I have bluetooth for my HP Tuner and it doesn't do a great job I always plug it in to my device. Any opinions about this model-
http://1320electronics.com/12pin_ALDL_BT_MK2.html

 

I will second the 1320 set up with the same app Komet used, not a lot of money invested and it works really good even with an old Android phone. It saved me a lot of time and money chasing an intermittent issue and honestly diagnosing these cars without data is like throwing darts in the dark.

Do a search on the EGR vac solenoid, I had luck using one from a Corvette as they are still made (expensive though) other guys have found much cheaper alternatives that can be used by simply splicing a different pig tail and getting a little creative with mounting it.

A lot of ppl on here have seemed to have trouble with high perf. coils like the MSD etc and when going back to AC Delco no more problems...but the fact that it runs better with the EST unplugged leads me to think pick up coil on the distributor may have given up the ghost or ECM? If you have good known parts from the 88' might be worth a shot swapping after checking the factory service manual.

If it turns out to be the distributor spend the money on a good quality one, I've had no issues with the AC Delco I put on my car a few years back.

 

Thanks Reddragon,
I'm watching videos from 1320 on you tube now. Looks fairly straight forward. Apparently the bluetooth version works alright. Would rather get the one with the USB as well but it's out of stock. For less than $100 all in doesn't seem to bad.

Looked at some people wiring in other EGR vac solenoids. Just figured would pull the one on the other car to see if it helped.
Leaning more toward the ECM or EGR stuck issue. But if that was stuck wouldn't it run like crap at 6° timing with the wire off to?
Curious why you might think its distributor related, or pick up coil as you say EST unplugged makes you think that. My thought process was if it can run good at 6° wouldn't those things be okay and the computer is changing timing based on a reading or particular parameter? Or ECM has just given up. IDK and really would be interested to learn what your thinking.
I'm with you on AC Delco being alright, bought the other car with an MSD coil is why I'd try MSD at all on this. Not trying to make more power just cruise it and smile.
Much appreciated!

 

I run the 1320 unit with BT on an old Android phone, no issues.

Seeing as how you mentioned original distributor and they get pretty crusty with that kind of age (mine looked like it sat on the bottom of a lake at 78k miles) and they can act up, I also remembered this thread when I was researching a previous issue on my car and you mentioned it runs better with EST disconnected, had some good info.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...n-t-stall.html

This was another good one I just stumbled on looking for that first one:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...runs-like.html

ECM is easy to swap out from your 88' and they are the same 165, just be sure to switch the PROMS and be careful re-installing.

 

Again appreciate it Reddragon!
I have my 88 stripped down was doing body work on it and all body parts are stuffed in the interior because we moved. Bonus I got a new shop, but have yet to unpack that car. Otherwise probably would've swapped ECMs and memcals already as that part shouldn't take 15 minutes.
I read those threads and several others. It seems it can just be a number of frustrating issues with varying solutions.
I'm ordering the cable from 1320 as soon as I reactivate my PayPal account apparently. Not a PP fan as had fraud issues with them twice and they are not much help.
While I wait will toss some parts at it from the other car just didn't want to pull that distributor from both cars, Also trying to decipher the service manual and see if I can find the right solution.
Feel free to keep the ideas coming!
Thanks again and when I get it worked out will post my solution to add with others.

 

1320 is good to deal with, I had no issues with him at all and his customer service is good for a one man show. Only tricky part was selecting the right programming for your car from the menu on the app.

A proper distributor wrench is nice as that hold down bolt can be tricky, I've had good luck with a ratcheting flex head wrench too and is my current go to. The first time I pulled the distributor a buddy and I modified a socket and it was a real pain.

.

 

I use to have a distributor wrench but couldn't find it yesterday. My tools are fairly organized so I'm thinking loaned it out at some point. Do you remember the size, I was thinking 9/16" maybe?

 

I think your right about 9/16 being the right size.

 

Distributor wrench didn't have room to turn for me; it bumped into the EGR solenoid if I recall. I did mine with a crow's foot wrench, I think that or the flex head wrench is the way to go.

 

Problem seems to be solved, Woohoo!!! Sometimes it's the simple things like Komet said back to basics. So read through the FSM I had for the '88 and was about to take out the dizzy to look at what Reddragon said since everything in the manual pointed that direction. Decided to check the timing 1st. Turns out the mechanic had over 20° plus to much timing in it. Surprised it ran at all with the timing so far off. Unplugged the EST and could barely see the mark on the balancer coming around after I marked it. Compromised and set it about 7° after warm. Plugged the wire back in and ran like a champ. Got everything back together and went for a drive and reminded me of how the car use to be.
It was certainly a frustrating process but if not for trying to track that down wouldn't have found the vacuum lines that where disconnected and ones that didn't fit just right. Also ended up with a clean throttle body, idle that is set properly, and the EGR solenoid wires where just laying by the firewall unhooked plugged back in. In all its probably a better car since I had to track down a timing problem and the car would have never ran as good as it does now. BTW I used a regular 15mm open ended wrench to get the bolt loose for the distributor after taking off the coil and EGR solenoid just enough room. Tried a crows foot and some offset wrenches just couldn't get those to work.
Thanks all for the input and advice!!!