gmzo6

I have a stock iroc hood without the hood insulation. Will a edelbrock airgap intake fit under the hood? I already have an avs2 650cfm carb and edelbrock 14x3 drop base filter setup. The intake I have on it is unknown, I cant see any name or part number on the outside. Ironically it already has the ports to hook up water return lines on it but I really want the air gap to help with fuel boiling issues.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Depends on how generous you are with the definition of "fit".

Generally, with a drop-base air cleaner and a thin element, yes.

The problem then of course is, since the height of the intake lifts the carb almost up to the hood, the top of the air cleaner is nearly touching the carb air horn. Kinda defeats the purpose of a big tall intake with nice straight runners and all, if all the air has to skweeeeeeze through a tiny slot at the top, and immediately take a hard 90°.

Might want to attack your fuel boiling issue some other way. For example, make sure wherever the fuel lines are close to exhaust (esp headers) there's some insulation or a heat shield around them, and use one of these https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...vy-fuel-pumps/ between the pump and the block, since LOTS of heat can get transferred into the fuel that way.

89fast5oh

RPM Air Gap, 650 electric choke Edelbrock carb, and some crappy 2" regular base air cleaner. I think I tried a drop base and want to say it didn't work with that carb.

gmzo6

Thanks for the picture of your setup. It looks like it's got a little room left with your standard base and 2 in filter. I think with my edelbrock dropbase 3x14 it'll barely fit. If worst comes to worse I'll just trim the bottom of the hood for extra clearance. Its already missing the hood insulation. I could adjust the hood bumpers up front but I've got them setup perfect so when its closed the outside edges line up perfectly with the headlight surrounds. Also it's got a nice tight gap with the middle of the bumper piece because I shimmed the bolts to close up the gap.

F-BIRD'88

You need the old GM muscle car era drop base air cleaner from a L88. or a L72 427 or 69 chevelle. 396. 1" more clearance than a aftermarket drop base eddy, moroso etc A/C.. 14x3.
You really only need the base.
Source. ,,, corvete GM muscle car restoration parts supplyers.. Ecklers etc etc.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't too much matter what brand, style, age, intent, mfr, or ANYTHING ELSE drop-base it is. The problem isn't the base; it's the lid.

The air cleaner lid can only move upwards as far as the hood. The taller the intake, the closer the carb gets to the hood. The closer it is to the hood, the more constricted the air flow into it will be. Makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to have a good-flowing intake and then lay a choke (air cleaner lid) on top of the carb.

Looks to me like this post really should have been "I REALLY want to put the Air Gap on my car. I know it won't fit right or do any good but I'm gonna do it anyway no matter what logic interferes with it. I'm looking for a good excuse to rationalize it, and I think I can convince myself, if I'm not too picky about admitting the truth, that it'll help with a fuel boiling problem. That's gonna be my excuse for spending on this nice shiny bling instead of attacking the fuel issue at its source".

This is how otherwise potentially nice cars get turned into dysfunctional PsOS.

gmzo6

I used to have fuel boiling issues bad when I still had the mechanical fuel pump on the side of the block but now I have a gravity fed electric pump at the tank and a regulator mounted right on the drivers side shock tower. Now it's only got a few feet,maybe 2 feet of braided fuel line going over top of the engine to my edelbrock carb. It's far far better then the old setup I had. As far as the intake goes, the reason why I want to get an air gap is because yes they do a better job at making power but the little extra heat dissipation it provides for standing fuel in the carb bowls is a big bonus too. I cant justify spending hundreds for an aftermarket hood just to get 1 or 2 inches of hood clearance for my air cleaner. Plus I'd have to spend a ton more just to get it painted to match the car. I like the factory hood so I'm just trying to work with what I got before having to buy a crazy expensive part. That's what hot rodding is all about.

Tom 400 CFI

You're right that is "Hot Rodding", but do you want to be enlightened? Or not? How is an Air Gap going to lower your carb temp? It's aluminum; it'll suck heat right out of the heads (flange), coolant, oil, like the heat sink that it aluminum is. And it's sitting atop a hot engine, behind a hot radiator and fan, above HOT headers....How is an Air Gab going to lower your carb temp?

I agree w/sofakingdom; the intake is not a solution to fuel temp problems. I doubt that it will change your fuel temps in any meaningful way....and especially not when you're feeding it hot underhood air w/an open element air cleaner.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you don't need an Air Gap intake at all then, per your "rationalization". You don't REALLY have a fuel boiling problem to begin with. You're just looking for an excuse for the bling.

Without knowing what the rest of your engine is, I couldn't begin to guess whether an Air Gap intake would ACTUALLY make more power on it or not, assuming the air cleaner lid didn't become an obstruction; but with the stock hood I seriously doubt it would make any more power than a regular Perf RPM. Probably less in fact, since all the air would have to skkwwwweeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeee through a little mail slot sort of clearance between the air cleaner lid - even if smashed up against the hood at the front - and the top of the carb.

What intake is on it now? Have you ACTUALLY MEASURED how much clearance you have available?

gmzo6

Its an unknown intake. Its aluminium and has the ports for coolant lines on top. I couldn't find any part number on it. For all i know its a factory aluminum made in china replacement. Ive got good parts already on the engine. I just want a reputable name for an intake. Dont judge my wants and needs please. If you wanna put jcwhitney $600 speaker system on your harley thats your choice. I'm not gonna tell you its dumb,I'll actually say hey look now you got some tunes for your bike.

gmzo6

gmzo6

I'll put an updated photo of the engine tomorrow. It's dark outside now so I'll get better pics in the morning. Also you'll se the fuel line setup. Its different then these pictures. These are old pictures

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

We're trying to help you not make a stupid mistake that will cost you money - YOUR OWN money, and LOTS of it by the time you get to any kind of an end - without giving you any tangible benefits.

Sometimes the best way to convince someone of things like this is to get them to look inside their head and GET HONEST with their motivations. Sometimes that HONESTY will reveal that whatever "proposal" they're making, is really not such a good idea after all. Or maybe it is, and they need to consider other things that they've overlooked. In a general way it seems like HONESTY is the basic quantity we need to bring to the surface.

I can't tell much about that intake... Skip White or some such? What other parts are involved? Heads, cam, compression, etc.? I can see headers. Gears, converter (I can see a TV cable)? The Air Gap does little or no good at lower (let's say, sub 5500) RPMs; does this motor spend most of its life up there? How much hood clearance do you have now?

RJ 1

I’m running one on my 86 Iroc with a drop base from Jegs. I did have to notch the base a little to clear my hei distributor.

BBCSwap

How much clearance would you suggest for a 350 that doesn't go over 5500 between the top of the carb and the top of the air cleaner?

gmzo6

RJ 1, it looks like your setup works. I have the same air cleaner setup. I'll probably change the lid to a K&N filter top so it gets more potential air from the top and not just the sides of the filter. I might notch the hood a little also. The cam is unknown right now(sounds like a stock truck cam). I'll be changing it to a lunati voodoo 268/276 cam with correct lifters with the proper converter for my car. The shop doing the work is very good and he builds really nice customer cars. It has edelbrock tes header system with slp loudmouth 2 exhaust. No cats. Rebuilt 700r4 with shift kit and stronger internals. Flotek aluminum heads. 2.02 1.60 valves 180cc runners 62cc chambers baer drilled slotted rotors hawk pads bf Goodrich sport comp 2 tires 275/40-17. I will be changing to a 3 core aluminum radiator with a 16in spal fan soon.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

At least half the width of the carb bore pattern on the intake, if it was a square. (or square-ish in the case of a spreadbore carb) So, probably 2" or so above the choke tower, and more like 3" above the flange. Any less than that, and the gap between the carb air horn and the air cleaner lid becomes The Bottleneck.

Try thinking of an engine's intake tract like a series of pieces of hose. Do the thought experiment of imagining you have a bucket way out in the far corner of your back 40 and you frequently need to fill it up. So you go around and find every piece of hose you can, hook em all up in a chain, and start filling the bucket the first time. Well, it's SLOW, you're not satisfied with how much water you're getting, so you take a look at your hose sections. You see that you have a 50' piece of ½", 25' of ¼", 100' of ¾", and 25' of 1". Now: what will happen to the fill rate of your bucket if you shorten the ¾" to 75'? what will happen if you increase the 1" to 1½"? what about if you replace the ½" with 1"? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, right? The reason is because NONE of those is The Bottleneck. That section of ¼" is The Thing controlling how fast your bucket fills up, right?

So since in an engine, POWER OUTPUT (energy produced per unit time) is DIRECTLY a product of FLOW (combustion ingredients per unit time), we're faced with the same kind of evaluation. What if we get heads with 200cc intake runners (1" hose), 2.02" valves (¾" hose), a nice street cam (½" hose), a street sort of intake (more ½" hose), and an air cleaner lid that's too close to the carb air horn (¼" hose)? What's controlling and limiting our power output (air flow) in that scenario? Will it help to change the intake to a tall straight-runner type (make it into 1" hose) especially if it REDUCES the ¼" hose to 1/8"? Of course not. We're still not going to get even ONE MORE MOLECULE of air through the whole system, and might even get LESS.

That's how hot-rodding an engine works. The means of making more power is NOT to bolt the biggest juiciest shiniest BLING we can find up on top of it where everybody can see it, just because [gollum]We Wants It[/gollum]. The ONLY way that doing that makes the car faster is by way of WEIGHT REDUCTION centered at the DRIVER'S WALLET. Instead, the way to make a car faster is to find The Bottleneck, and de-restrict it in an amount and by a means consistent with THE REST OF the whole car, and in line with the owner's goals for the car. In the case of the OP it may turn out that there's something to be gained by swapping the intake; but if the intake used is not consistent with the rest of the system, it can easily go BACKWARDS in terms of power production, by making an existing Bottleneck worse, or by even creating a WHOLE NEW ONE in a place that's not a problem now, or by mismatching with other parts as might happen in a situation like a single plane intake (good for high RPMs) coupled with a 929 cam (makes no power above 3000 RPM) so you end up with the worst of all worlds: no low RPM torque because of the intake and no high RPM power because of the cam, therefore no power at ANY RPM. All of these scenarios are clearly not the way FORWARD for making power.

The kind of lid that's a filter is better in this regard than a piece of tin but still suffers from drawing in hot underhood air. If OP wants to make more power he might well get more results than he ever will with an intake, by instead doing away with the open-element thing altogether and drawing in cooler and therefore denser air (more molecules contained in the same volume), such as by cowl induction, or a snorkel system, or something like that. Maybe even just porting the intake he has now could help (NOT "hogging it out", but rather, smoothing sharp corners, eliminating casting flash, matching the carb flange to his carb bores, and stuff like that, to improve its FLOW without reducing air velocity through it). It may even turn out that his Bottleneck isn't under the hood AT ALL, but rather, he has a stock converter and 2.73 gears. (he didn't say anything about those things) Again, evaluate the WHOLE PACKAGE, not just slap on big shiny BLING sitting up on top. Think it all the way through from beginning to end.

F-BIRD'88

Do not let sofakibg lead you astray.
Its the BASE that matters. The lids are the same.
The GM L72/L88 base allows 1" lower height than any all the typical aftermarket 14x3" air cleaners.
A 14x 2" filter will restrict engine power output.
When you use the cOrrect GM BASE there is room to spare with a 14x3" filter. and the eddy RPM intake on these cars.
GM solved this problem some 40+ years ago.

A alternative is the Weiand 8125 and 8126 mid rise intake manifolds. Test equal to a RPM intake, better than the EPS and ¾" Lower carb pad height than the RPM. This is a very good intake.
spreadbore/Square bore universal also.

When using the GM drop base the choke horn on a holley carb must be cut off.. The bowl vents need to be cut down shorter.
Other carbs are fine.. Electric choke may not fit.
Throttle cable linkage bracket HEIGHT will need tweeking as the base sits lower.
It fits under hood and gives max possible perf.
It outperforms other even higher air cleaners because of its superior SHAPE.

Tom 400 CFI

Sofa is not leading anyone astray. He's right. The clearance between the lid and the mouth of the carb will become the limiting factor. You even acknowledge that when you say:
Why? B/c the lid is too low/close the the carb. That makes a restriction. :yesnod:

The OP needs to determine the elevation that's available between the mouth of whatever carb he has, and the underside of the hood. Regardless of what style air cleaner base he uses, that will define his max airflow into the carb. Is that elevation enough? That's what the OP need to determine....if he GAF, which isn't clear at this point.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Increasing the height (and for that matter, the diameter) of the air filter element only allows more air in IF IT IS THE BOTTLENECK. That is, if it's SO narrow (or otherwise of such small area) that it's the limit to how much air the engine can ingest. Which most assuredly CAN and DOES happen in certain situations; in no way will I argue against that.

Note that I am NOT saying "air filter element height doesn't matter"; NOT saying "drop base air cleaners are useless"; NOT saying "don't get the best air cleaner design you can"; NOT saying "the GM drop base air cleaner didn't accomplish anything"; NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Please, no one put any such words into my keyboard.

What I AM saying is that if something else - ANYTHING else - functions as The Bottleneck, particularly if it's some other property of the air cleaner itself, then increasing the height of the filter element will accomplish NOTHING. You can put an element in there that's A FOOT TALL, but if you do it in such a way that it leaves the lid sitting on top of the air horn and limiting the air flow, a taller element will do NOTHING.

Most specifically, if the lid of the air cleaner is TOO CLOSE TO THE AIR HORN, then lowering the base to allow a taller element is USELESS. If the lid is too close to the air horn, then the air filter element height IS NOT The Bottleneck, and ANYTHING that is done involving the element, is A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.

It bends my mind to contemplate that there is someone in the world capable of operating a device on the Internet yet unable to understand something SO SIMPLE.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I would add also, that I fully agree that the GM base (having had it on more than one L72 myself) is particularly well designed, in that, in combination with the shape of the lid they used on it IN CARS WITH ENOUGH HOOD CLEARANCE FOR IT TO FIT, it contoured the air flow to be more gracefully turned from horizontal through the element to vertical into the carb. Which of course is yet another problem with air cleaners in general, especially CHROME ones: they tend to have an absolutely FLAT base, leaving the air to make a hard instantaneous 90° in there. People have dyno'ed motors with a flat base against that GM system IN CARS WITH ENOUGH HOOD CLEARANCE FOR IT TO FIT (or on a stand where there's essentially infinite room available) and found a significant increase in power. K&N used to make a little cone thing you could add to such an air cleaner that slightly restricted it but improved (reduced) turbulence in the air flow, and I've seen that make more power on a dyno, A-B-A, with my own eyes.

But in cars where the carb air horn is too close to the hood to begin with, a drop base of ANY kind ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING, because the element isn't The Bottleneck. And furthermore, raising the height of the intake and thus decreasing the clearance to the hood, may instead make The Bottleneck WORSE and actually make LESS power than a nominally "inferior" intake.

F-BIRD'88

On the oem GM cars with a OEM Holley carb the carb choke horn was shorter height than the typical aftermarket performance Holley carbs are.
Thats why you need to cut off that choke horm.
Other carbseddy carter or Qjet the choke horn is fine.
The Holley Proform HP style centerbody upgrade is a great way to elimiate the holley choke horn.
You get down leg boosters and screwin air bleeds too. All fine tuning / jetting should be done with the air cleaner installed. Just like the OEM's do.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

OP doesn't have that.

OP doesn't have that.

OP can't use that.

Isn't relevant to the matter at hand: which is, whether the intake the OP proposes to use, raises the carb the OP actually has, to such a height that the top of it nearly reaches the hood that actually installed on the car he actually has. Theoretical crap and nostalgia about 60s cars with 6" more hood clearance and racing tricks that can be done to carbs other than what he's got DON'T MATTER.

Of course; even under GOOD conditions, the presence of the air cleaner lid affects the carb.

But OTOH if the air cleaner lid is sitting on top of the carb because the intake manifold is too tall to fit under the hood, then it doesn't really matter too much, now does it. The proximity of THE AIR CLEANER LID to the TOP OF THE CARB, caused by an intake manifold that raises the carb TOO CLOSE TO THE HOOD, pretty much rules out any kind of effective "tuning". The RESTRICTION created by the ill-fitting parts will still OVERWHELM any supposed "advantage" of the intake that doesn't fit.

Seems kinda like you're beating a dead horse by running off at the mouth about some topic other than the one we're all talking about here and that doesn't concern the OP to begin with. (well, all of us, except you, that is)

F-BIRD'88

It is unfortunate that someone here is hell bent on not allowing you to get the information needed on the hiws and whys of fitting the perfirner rpm and air gap version intakes under your stock camaro or firebird hood.
There is plenty clearance between the choke horn and the lid as I have discribed.
Some of the old OEM GM cars actually had LOWER net air cleaner to hood clearance than a third gen does. This is the air cleaner you want to get so you can run the rpm high rise intake on your camaro.
Ya if you have a aftermarket non OEM holley you are going to cut that choke hoen off.
You don't need the choke on a holley carb 99% of the time. Yiu can live without it.
This air cleaner out performs the other typical aftermarket 24x3 air cleaners reguardless of hood clearance.. Its a BETTER air cleaner.
Ya I've tried it.
You really only need to buy the base.
Mod it to fit a HEI diz at the back. Mod or remove the oem PCV vent pipe. Mod your throttle linkage bracket as required. Took me about ½ hour work.

The Weiand 8125 or 8126 i take that is lower height but still "high rise design" is not inferior to the RPM. It tests so close on a dyno within the abillity of any dyno to repeat test to test.
It will run just as good ON THE CAR as a rpm intake.
There is ROOM with this WEIAND intake to experiment with carb spacers TOO. Can be open, 4 hole or combo spacer. You have to test to see which ine it likes best.
even with this lower height mid rise weiand intake I recoment you get and use the old GM L88 L72, Z/28 14x3 air cleaner.

F-BIRD'88

Yiu can prove fir yoyrself if the L88 air cleaner lid is too close to the carb choke horn by back to back ¼ mike drag testing with and without adding a air cleaner / carb SPACER RING for ET and MPH effect ± Edelbrock sells these accessory part air cleaner spacer rings.. I have tried this too.
The ¼,½⅝,1"spacer rings raises up the whole air cleaner which increases the distance from the carb choke horn to the air cleaner lid.
The difference between Sofaking and me is I have tested all this before. Exactly as I discribe.

F-BIRD'88

Yoy've got the AVS2 carb so you do not need to worry about the choke horn. Its only a holley carb issue.
The carb body heat issue with eddy and carter carbs is solved by A: blocking off or restricting the plenum heat riser passage at the intake manifold gasket.
B: adding a WOODEN carb spacer under the carb.
C: correcting the heat soak of your fuel lines routing location and fuel pump mounting heat isolation gasket.
A eddy performer intake or any clone of are the worst offenders if the plenum heat riser passage in not blocked or or really restricted as required to get the amount of plenum heat correct for the job.
If the passage is open it is guaranteed to run Too Hot.
This really effects the afb and avs(2) eddy carbs the most.
Block the heat riser passage and add the WOOD carb spacer. It need not be a open spacer.
Can be divided type or 4 hole type or a combo style WOOD carb spacer.
Various thicknesses are available.
The Edelbrocks one come to mind.
I made my own out of plywood.
Been there before with your exact issue.
Performer intake and AFB carb.

F-BIRD'88

You still also want the good old GM L88 L72 drop base air cleaner base. It is just flat out BETTER than any other 14x3 drop base air cleaner.
The base itself is not really expensive.
Mod it to fit as required.

F-BIRD'88

On any carbed F body car you want a electric "pusher pump" at the back near the tank to help push the fuel to the engine mounted mechanical pump. Fuel line routing is important.
A fuel RETURN LINE back to the tank is important.
This keeps the fuel in the system always moving to avoid heat soak. A Carter P4070 works great as a "pusher pump" in combo with a good engine mounted mechanical pump. + a fuel return line..
Do not use the in tank EFI pump.
Get the Carter P4070 for this.

But if you want to use the eddy air gap intake you now know how to make it fit underhood.

The Weiand mid rise dual plane intake is MUCH BETTER in every way than your performer or performer clone no name intake
Weiand 8125 or 8126 ( 87 heads 081,083,217 )
They spent a lit of time and money geting it right.
It will get even better with a added carb spacer/ carb base heat isolation spacer.
Open style spacer is only one choice.
If you want to keep the 2 manifold planes isolated
180° dual plane design use a divided spacer or a 4 hole or combo of.
Rasing up the carb with a correct type carb spacer for the job pretty much improves EVERY /Any V8 intake manifold ever made.
And if it happens to be made of WOOD it also is very effective at controlling carb body heat.
Not that hard to fabricate out of good PLYWOOD.

Saxondale

iTrader: (2)

This must be how Alice in Wonderland felt.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I rectum sore.