Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

I Had an Epiphany Tonight

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 12:07 AM
  #1  
TheMagikMan's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 197
Likes: 30
From: Harrisburg, PA
Car: 1986 Firebird Trans Am WS6
Engine: Cammed 358 TPI
Transmission: Built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.77 Borg-Warner 9 Bolt
I Had an Epiphany Tonight

I've been searching for an oil burning issue for the better part of a year now (since I put my 350 in), thinking it was a tuning issue or a PCV issue because there's oil in the tube that goes from my PCV to my intake manifold. I have ALSO been searching for missing horsepower for a while.

Here's my epiphany: They are ONE AND THE SAME ISSUE.
When an engine is under WOT, it SHOULD NOT pull any vacuum (maybe 0.5inHg). HOWEVER, when an intake (In my case a stock '86 TPI off a 305) is overly restrictive, the engine tries to get the air it needs elsewhere and will pull vacuum under wide open conditions. I personally have a 350 bored .040" over with double hump heads off of a 69 Z28, a COMP Cams XR269HR camshaft and 10:1 compression, so my TPI is holding back my engine by probably 70-100 horsepower at the crank. With that much of a restriction, my theory is that it may be pulling just enough vacuum to open the PCV and pull oil into the intake manifold. I will be testing this on Tuesday with a spare vacuum/boost gauge a friend of mine has to confirm, but before then, is my theory correct? Could the issue simply be a part matching error that I've made when I built the engine by overbuilding everything else compared to the intake?

@SbFormula just dropping a mention here so I don't chuck another email into your inbox lol
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 08:47 AM
  #2  
Vader's Avatar
Moderator
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 19,651
Likes: 309
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

The calibration of aftermarket PCV valves is highly suspect. There were different factory part numbers for those on different engines for a very specific reason.

Evidence of excess PCV flow would likely appear in the plenum as varnish accumulation in a short period.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 10:32 AM
  #3  
TheMagikMan's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 197
Likes: 30
From: Harrisburg, PA
Car: 1986 Firebird Trans Am WS6
Engine: Cammed 358 TPI
Transmission: Built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.77 Borg-Warner 9 Bolt
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

Originally Posted by Vader
The calibration of aftermarket PCV valves is highly suspect.
It is a bone stock ACDelco part for my 1986 305. While it is on my 350, I have tried to use the ones off of a 350 car before, and even an LS as many people here have said will help, and the issue persists. All ACDelco part numbers. I can guarantee that the oil is coming from the PCV.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 10:51 AM
  #4  
TransamGTA350's Avatar
Supreme Member
25 Year Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 322
From: South Windsor, CT
Car: '89 GTA
Engine: ZZ6TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 3.70:1
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

A restrictive intake should not cause excessive oil ingestion from the PCV system. The more likely scenario is excessive blowby and crankcase pressurization due to rings not seating properly.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 10:57 AM
  #5  
TheMagikMan's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 197
Likes: 30
From: Harrisburg, PA
Car: 1986 Firebird Trans Am WS6
Engine: Cammed 358 TPI
Transmission: Built 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.77 Borg-Warner 9 Bolt
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

Originally Posted by TransamGTA350
A restrictive intake should not cause excessive oil ingestion from the PCV system. The more likely scenario is excessive blowby and crankcase pressurization due to rings not seating properly.
The motor only has about 6000 miles on it. Just enough for the rings to have seated. And I believe I explained above, that I know it's coming from the PCV because there is an oil coating inside the hose that goes from the PCV to the intake. It's an aftermarket valve cover too, and not an expensive one, so the baffles are likely not quite up to snuff. I KNOW the oil is coming from the PCV, I'm just trying to track down WHY.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 11:21 AM
  #6  
TransamGTA350's Avatar
Supreme Member
25 Year Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 322
From: South Windsor, CT
Car: '89 GTA
Engine: ZZ6TPI
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: Borg Warner 3.70:1
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

Originally Posted by TheMagikMan
The motor only has about 6000 miles on it. Just enough for the rings to have seated. And I believe I explained above, that I know it's coming from the PCV because there is an oil coating inside the hose that goes from the PCV to the intake. It's an aftermarket valve cover too, and not an expensive one, so the baffles are likely not quite up to snuff. I KNOW the oil is coming from the PCV, I'm just trying to track down WHY.
I would try putting the stock valve covers back on. The baffles (or lack thereof) will make a difference in oil entering the PCV system. If that doesn't fix your issue, then crankcase over pressurization is likely the issue, which will push excessive oil into the PCV system. I agree that in 6,000 miles, the rings should have seated by now, but there are reasons they may not have (and if they haven't by now, they aren't going to).

Machine work, honing, cleaning, measuring clearances and assembly techniques can all be factors in a quality outcome.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 04:41 PM
  #7  
SbFormula's Avatar
Supreme Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 192
From: Canada
Car: '18 Chev Camaro SS 1LE
Engine: LT1 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.91
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

My 2 cents worth!

I doubt a bit of vacuum at WOT would pull oil that much. If vacuum is present at WOT, the PCV valve will actually restrict flow. I am more on the side of excessive blow by or possibility of vacuum leak from intake gasket.

However, maybe you want to speak with @EDGE . He had a problem with excessive oil through the PCV system. I believe he solved it using an adjustable PCV valve + somehow how the PCV valve was sitting in the grommet.

Check out his posts and maybe try contacting him:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...r-baffles.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...d-gm-only.html


Post#19
Just wanted to update. I went with one of those fancy Wagner adjustable PCV valves and the problem seems to have been solved. Before I had 4 to 5 oz of oil in the catch can after 25 minutes of driving. Now I get basically a smear of oil. One thing they mention is to make sure there's at least 3/8 inch gap above the baffle. I had less then that. Valve comes with rubber shims to raise it
.

Last edited by SbFormula; Sep 4, 2023 at 04:46 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 05:02 PM
  #8  
SbFormula's Avatar
Supreme Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 192
From: Canada
Car: '18 Chev Camaro SS 1LE
Engine: LT1 6.2L
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.91
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

Reply
Old Sep 4, 2023 | 08:12 PM
  #9  
Fast355's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,404
Likes: 492
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: I Had an Epiphany Tonight

I have had great luck using the PCV called out in the early LS engines for oil consumption. It is a fixed orifice, small hole drilled in an empty PCV valve shell. Every engine I have used it on practically quits pulling oil into the intake manifold from the PCV system.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
InfernalVortex
Tech / General Engine
2
Oct 3, 2015 07:40 PM
Jerad
Organized Drag Racing and Autocross
3
Jul 27, 2003 01:55 PM
Wasted420
TPI
8
Dec 23, 2002 09:12 PM
Denis.V
Tech / General Engine
8
Oct 28, 2002 08:47 PM
89Iroc-ZL98
Tech / General Engine
6
Feb 8, 2002 08:58 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.