I'm looking for a car to buy for summer. I will need it for a daily driver for a summer job. I've just read Hot Rod's "The Top 10 Bargain Project Cars" and I need more advice and opinions.
Here's what I need (well, want anyway):

It has to be cheap (<$1000, we'll say) (I don't have much cash, that's why I need the job)

I want something with potential (else I'd just buy a Honda or Cavalier or something). What's the aftermarket support for this car?

I'd like a V8 (don't care if it's "just" a 305, they still can run). V8-V8 swaps down the road would be easier and cheaper than 6-8 or 4-8.

Something relatively clean and put together would be nice. I have no time or money for frame-off restorations or serious body or interior repair.

Also, tell me something about the wieght of these cars. It's hard to find that kind of info on cars (or is it just me?) So does anyone know? Which body style wieghs the least?

Preferrably something 1980 or older. I want it to be 25 years old by '05

Would also prefer something that won't **** off the insurance salesman (That money thing again). Which cars are cheaper to insure?

Here's my list:
G-bodies (Monte Carlo, Grand Am, Cutlass, Regal)- Are any of these four better than the other three, or are they about the same? What things should I look for when shopping for them?

B-bodies (Caprices)-These cars are heavy, I know. like 4000lbs? Hot Rod says the aftermarket's not there but I find that hard to believe. Does anyone know different? What other cars are B-bodies and would share the same parts as a Caprice? a LeSabre?

A-bodies (Malibu, Lemans)- There must be something good about these cars, is it the wieght or is the suspension good? I've seen lots of webpages about people who race these so there must be an aftermarket.

Novas- The staple of budget hotrodders. When did they quit making rear drive Novas? Will this accomplish my now/later goals?

Camaro/Firebird-(There, now it's officially a thirdgen post) Are 82's real expensive to insure compared to the others? I doubt I'd get a decent one for just a grand. The nameplate alone seems to double the price.

Not sure what I'll do in the future with it. Probably hotter motor, maybe something that'll handle good. Maybe slowly mod it over the years, dunno. Just like to keep my options open, and get my foot in the "V8, rear drive" door.

Thanks in advance for the replies, and if there's a good car I didn't list, please tell me about it.

 

yes, you can find a decent car for under 1,000. but you have to be patient, don't over pay, get in touch with your contacts, and do a diligent search. you have to have the mentality that ' i don't care if i get the car, i've made a reasonable offer'. if you are worried about loosing a car, then you will pay too much and be blind to all of it's inadequcies. as far as what kind of car to get, it depends on where you live, and if you are going to drive it year round. f bodies are fun to drive and easy to mod, but they suck in the snow. ( mine is perfect as long as i don't want to speed up, stop, or turn.) i would highly recomend a g body. they have a good weight balence, are easy to mod, have decent insurance, and you can take all the info from this site and apply it. you should go for a 78 through 87 ( i think 87 was the last year for rear drive passenger, not sure though). this year range lost all that 70s weight, are very responsive, and the bodies should be in fair condition. if you are looking to keep the car go for one with a better body because you can always stuff a different engine/trans in there. if this is just a intermediate step disposable car, go for a better running one.
luck,
jess

 

Yeah, that's the mentality I want to have "I don't care, this is a fair offer. Call me if you reconsider."

Do you know of any good websites for G-bodies? I know that just about anything will pale in comparison to this site, and lots of F-body stuff will still apply. I really like the "tech data" on this site and wish that there was one for other cars as well.

I was kind of afraid of G-bodies at first because I had figured that insurance companies have gotten wind of what Grand Nationals can do and some of them are old enough to remember that Monte Carlo was a musclecar. But I'll look into them.

Oh yeah, and most of my "contacts" are this site.

Thanks,
Homer

 

get a bird

 

i'd recomend looking for a malibu. they are lightweight for the size and have coil spring suspension at all four corners which the f body didn't at the time. should make for a decent toy. another advantage is full frame and many, many parts available.

 

i usually just check with all my friends and ask them to keep thier eyes open. i also check the papers a lot and just drive around. i usually come across a good deal every month or two.
as far as grand nationals, good luck finding one, they are not cheap. go for a regular monty , not an ss because you'll pay too much, with a 305. then hit the bone yards for fast ratio steering and sway bars, gears, ect. beef it up slowly.
as for sites, i just went to google and typed in ' g body and found a slew of them. in particular, this one: http://www.g-body.org/ google
jess

 

Zippy is on the 'A' car idea. A '78-'80 Malibu is a pretty solid platform, if not a little boxy looking. They were available with a V-8 and house one very easily.

I find it hard to believe that any magazine such as that would say that "the aftermarket's not there" on almost any car. Unless they are turning to a fried-rice format like everyone else, they can't be serious. Yes, you can't find a 3' wing custom made for a 'B' car, and 8" exhaust tips aren't listed for the LeMans. And no one has a "V-Tech" sunshade for a GN or Monte, but when it comes to the real performance aftermarket, the parts are out there.

 

So some votes for a G-body, some votes for an A-body. Sounds good to me. I've done a little websurfing and found that a lot of websites are A/G body sites, so maybe the two are real similar or share parts or something. I like them both, so I'll look for either when I do my shopping. Unless someone tells me that one is superior to the other for some reason.

One site compared the Malibu's handling to OJ Simpson's agility. Another told me that his Malibu weighs about 3400 lbs. That doesn't sound too bad either. I dont' know about the handling or wieght of a G-body, can anyone tell me?

Thanks again guys,
Homer

 

iv'e driven both. they both handle well and you would be happy with either.
jess

 

Global West sells suspension kits for all the cars you mentioned. My friend had an 83 Monte with the big *** sway bars, shocks etc, from them... and his car handled almost as well as my then stock f-body.

The f-body will be the most expensive for insurance as it's a sports car. The more expensive the new price was the more expensive insurance will be. An Oldsmobile will therefor cost slightly more than a Chevy to insure.

 

That's really funny! To add all that suspension stuff to keep up with a stock f-body!
Ah well. F-bodies are expensive for a reason I guess...

 

Heres an idea i had one day. Find an old Mini Cooper that has a good body. Rip everything out from under it, put in atleast a 305 v8 and the bigger the better. Tub the backend for slicks or drag radials, make a t56 or t400 trans fit and a bulletproof rearend. Then do some suspension goodies and go find some unsuspecting racers. Stock mini coopers weigh like 1100 lbs so just imagine the possibilities.

Andrew

 

Don't forget to add an ex-police Ford Crown Victoria to the list of cheap transportation. Many of the older box bodies can be had for under $1000.

Both 302 and 351W are very durable motors, 351 is a little thirsty for gas though. Crown vic is the ford counterpart of chevy caprice, a fullsized american v8 RWD sedan.

http://www.crownvic.net

 

here's a possibility that nobody has brought up..
fiero 2m4 + 383..
but a 2 seater is probably not what you want..
a 84 cutlass can fit a 427 in between it's fenders and can handle pretty wide tires in the back.. hard to converit it to a manual because.. there are no manuals.. but... auto with a shift kit..
a "friend" has one of those. just flys.. started off as a cutlass 305..

 

try finding a olds cutlass. believe it or not you can do alot with them. they have 307s but they are automatic. you can make them really nice looking and fast. my friends got an 86 442 with a 307. he had the engine built up and runs very low 16's. my friend got his for $500 but he did alot of work to it. or you can just get a third gen.

 

Can't do any motor swaps, yet anyway.

So no big block Cutlass or V8 fiero,
but tell me more about the 307. I know it's an emissions motor like the 305, but what's the bore x stroke of each? Which one is more desirable (or rather, less undesirable)? Any way I can tell one from the other?

Right now, I'm leaning towards a G or A body if I can get my hands on one. Hey, am I the only one who thinks a G body looks just like an F body with a trunk and a boxy front? Are the suspensions similar?

 

I found out something.
While the 305 has 3.736 bore x 3.48 stroke, the 307 has more bore, 3.875 x 3.25 stroke.

Meaning, that while a little weaker in the torque department, it should be a better breather on the top end (lots of people have said that the 305 has breathing issues). And, with a dime-a-dozen 305 crank, would make a cheap 328 stroker someday. Mmm, stroker...
Edit: No, scratch the stroker idea, they use different hieght pistons. I was hoping the stroke was offset by the rods instead. Oh well.

so how can I find out which cars came with which motor, and how do I tell them apart?
Thanks,
Homer

 

Some oldsmobile cutlasses had the olds 307 or olds 350 and others the chevy 305. Motors can look very similar to untrained eye, both are small block v8's by a general motors division. Watch out, many of the cutlass supremes were v6 equipped.

Olds 307 motors have a vacuum choke heater setup, chevies of that era tend to have an electric choke heater. There's also the telltale xover pipe going from the waterneck directly to the water pump on olds smallblocks. Can also tell by the VIN on windsheild.

Olds 307's have been known to go 200k or 300k miles without ever being opened up. Trouble points include nylon teeth on timing gears, a pitted aluminum intake near the water ports, and leaking valve cover gaskets. Very good reliability, but oldsmobile motors are expensive to build up for performance applications.

 

Don't forget about the all powerful 260 V8 either . . .

 

the 307 olds is a great 14 second car engine and that's about all you'll be able to get out of it without nitrous. they are very, very torquey in stock form due to the parts they used to build them even with the shorter stroke. unfortunatly they haven't got much hp and not all olds parts will interchange with them. for performance, they are only slightly better than the 301 pontiac. for the price range your looking at, 442 and hurst olds are pretty much out of the question. i will say though, if you live in and emissions testing area, look for a diesel model since they are quite often void from testing in most states and by the vin won't require testing. that's just something to think about and there are some two door cutlass models with t tops out there with the diesel if you can imagine that.

 

add a vote for the malibu.

 

trust me, you do not want a car with an olds 350 diesel engine. an olds 350 gasoline engine is an excellent motor though.

 

While on topic of olds 307, if you want to see an olds v8 307 or 350 mounted in an FWD platform take a look at 1979-1985 gm e-bodies. Older oldsmobile toronados & buick rivieras can be had for cheap money.

 

good point, lets not forget about the olds 350 diesel either. can see all engine choices avaliable on a car by visiting

http://www.autozone.com
http://www.napaonline.com

and selecting add a car, will then prompt you for which manufacturer, car model, and year. As last step, a drop down box listing engine choices for vehicle will appear.

 

In the sub-$1000 car market, one can't be too picky about make, model & year. Grab what comes avaliable and fits your qualifications. For example:

seller located withing 200 miles of home
overdrive tranny
made by ford or general motors
rear wheel drive
V8 engine
no serious collision damage
TMU title ok (True mileage unknown)
salvage title not desired, but would consider if the price is right

http://pages.ebay.com/ebaymotors/browse/Cars.html
http://www.autotrader.com

 

the idea behind the diesel is to swap it with a gas engine and have a car with a vin for a diesel engine voiding it from most emissions laws. my vote is still for the malibu.

 

My daily driver is an 85 Caprice with the 305. I get all the parts I need from aftermarket places, like the Zone, etc. My Caprice would sell for about $200 probably. It has 334,000 miles on it and the engine has never been opened. (knocking on wood).

 

Well, If you are looking at an F-body find a nice cheap one that is in good shape and park it in your backyard and tinker on it on weekends,but for daily transportation try a malibu or the cutlass,if you're a youngster, Speaking from been there done that
find a nice non-F-body an drive the @#$% out of it !
I had 82 TA, insurance killed me when I was in high school in which I paid about $2000 now my Iroc cost me about $500 a year at age 31.

Vance

 

If you're looking at G-bodies, you may want to consider a 78 ~ 80 Turbo Regal. These cars had carbed 231 V6's that were also turbocharged. Go over here:

http://www.turbobuick.com/messagebd/

and ask some questions. The "Before Black" section is the one you're looking for.

Found this one too:

http://www.flash.net/~rjgeorge/

The Turbobuick.com guys are great for support and tech advice. Also, most of the general Grand National advice (suspension, etc.) would apply to an early carbed car. The carbed Turbo Regal guy is pretty sharp too. I think there are a few 14 sec or better carbed 231 V6 Turbo Regals that hang out over there.

Don't be worried about insurance, these cars are so old that it won't make a difference if it's turbocharged or not.

Oh yea, if you want more power in the future, just swap in the drivetrain from an 86 or 87 GN and shoot for very streetable 11s (or better)!

Good luck.

 

turbo regals may be nice cars, but they are difficult to locate in salvage yards.

original poster was looking for something cheap to purchase, maintain, and insure. V8 normally aspirated gm g-bodies, gm b-bodies, and ford panther platform cars fall into this category.

 

Yes, thank you. I am leaning towards GM A,G, and B bodies. Turbo Buicks are good drool fodder but little else for me in this stage of the game. Am I correct to think that these three body styles share most of their parts? If they're so similar, why aren't they the same "letter"? Oh well, GM never has been accused of making too much sense.

What's a Ford Panther?

 

I've never heard of a Ford Panther,would it be called a Ford Pantera a rear engine Italian sports car from the early 70's,
Ford stuck in a 351 cleveland in the back end.
Vance

 

ford panther platform = large full sized RWD car with full ladder frame
ford crown victoria
mercury grand marquis
lincoln towncar

ford fox body = medium size RWD unibody car
Ford Mustang/Mercury Capri
Ford Fairmont/Mercury Zephyr
Ford Granada/Mercury Cougar (only fox body in certain years)
Ford Square T-bird/Mercury Cougar (only fox body in certain years)
Ford LTD/Mercury Marquis
Ford Thunderbird (only fox body in certain years)
Mercury Cougar (only fox body in certain years)
Lincoln Mark VII
Lincoln Continental (only fox body in certain years)

 

G-body = medium size RWD car with full ladder frame
1982-87 Buick Regal/Grand National (but not regal somerset)
1982-87 Chevrolet El Camino
1982-83 Chevrolet Malibu
1982-88 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1982-87 GMC Caballero
1982-88 Oldsmobile Cutlass RWD (but not cutlass ciera)
1982-86 Pontiac Bonneville
1982-87 Pontiac Grand Prix

gm changed platform letter designation from "A" to "G" in the early 1980's, but the car essentially remained the same.

A-body:
1978-81 Buick Century
1978-81 Buick Regal
1978-81 Chevrolet El Camino
1978-81 Chevrolet Malibu
1978-81 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1978-81 GMC Caballero
1978-81 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1978-81 Pontiac LeMans/Grand Am
1978-81 Pontiac Grand Prix

b body (boxy)= large full size RWD car with full ladder frame
- 1977-1985 Buick LeSabre - B body
- 1977-1984 Buick Electra/Park Ave. - C body
- 1977-1990 RWD Cadillac Coupe/Sedan DeVille/Fleetwood/Brougham - C body
- 1977-1990 Chevy Caprice - B body
- 1977-1985 Chevy Impala - B body
- 1977-1985 Olds Delta 88 - B body
- 1977-1984 Olds 98 - C body
- 1977-1981 Pontiac Bonneville - B body
- 1977-1981 Pontiac Catalina - B body
- 1983-1986 Pontiac Parisienne - B-body
(may have missed a couple)

 

Here's a candidate for a 86-87 turbo drivetrain swap...

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonl...0/12439360.htm

This particular car is not turbocharged, but I have seen several cars of this vintage in similar condition that ARE factory turbos with asking prices in this range. So yes, they are out there. Quick searches on the web can turn them up. I owned a nice 87 GN for 5 years and never had any unreasonable maintenance costs (my Formula has cost me more). As for insurance, if you're only paying $1000 for a car, you will probably only put PL/PD on it anyway right? I doubt that your insurance man would insure a 24 y/o Turbo Regal as anything other than a plain V6. It may even be CHEAPER than a V8 car of the same year! Definitely the case if you went with a car like the one above.

 

Guys, thanks for all your help. I've learned a lot, and did a lot of research and looking around.

Couple weeks ago I purchased a 1988 Caprice. It came with the police package, meaning 350, 700r trans, antisway bars, larger tires, and oil pressure, voltage, & temperature guages. Cost me $1200. According to the dealer, it also came with positraction, but I've been to lazy to crawl around and look for myself.

According to the warrantee book, the original owner was The United States Marshall Service. I suppose that could be good or bad. The bad news is, of course, that the rear doors don't open from the inside despite me being the 5th owner (lazy previous owners ). Plus of course, the usual stuff you'd expect, like air conditioning and radio both don't work.

I have a couple questions. How many of the parts are shared with A and G bodies? Will suspension parts labeled Malibu fit? Can I buy headers for a Monte Carlo?

And how much does this machine wiegh? If ThirdGens wiegh 3300-3800 lbs, what do I have? 4200?
Thanks again,
Homer

 

caprice police package (9c1) is a nice choice in cars, is a little thirsty for gas around town though.

are a few discussion groups pertaining to the 9c1 including:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/9c1
http://www.naisso.net/naisso/forums

back doors not opening from the inside is a common issue with ex-police cars (don't want the bad guys to get out). factory ships the rods and mounting hardware in a bag located in the trunk, but it is often lost by the time the cars make it to auction.

did your cruiser have a prisoner cage in it? any holes drilled in it for extra antennas?

anyone insterested in shopping for ex-police cars may also find this page of intrest:

http://www.geocities.com/bruzilla

some pictures of my cruiser (p71) are avaliable at:

http://www.geocities.com/modularmotor

 

The funny thing is though, the windows will still roll down from the inside. So I suppose if a baddie is dexterous enough, he could roll down the windows and open it from the outside. Quite a task with handcuffs, however...

I'll check again, but the only thing i found in the trunk was the spray can some moron used to cover some rust (or perhaps body damage). Not quite the same color either...

there are holes in the interior between the front and rear doors where a cage was most likely bolted in.

There's one rubber plug on the side of the trunk in the back where there was probably an antenna. The real radio antenna is in the front next to the hood. Doesn't look too bad.

What hubcaps came with the police package, if any? My car came with some semi-nice looking satin finish, made in taiwan plastic hubcaps. Better than bare hubs, but what else can I use?
-Homer