Dyno'd it today...thought it should have been better.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Palos Hills, IL
Car: 1988 IROC
Engine: 383 SP
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana S60 4:10
Dyno'd it today...thought it should have been better.
I've been looking in on the board here for awhile, I've only made a few post. Well I finally got my '88 Iroc to the dyno today. I was hoping for a little better #'s than what I got.(Aren't we all !!!)
My set up consist of 350, Lingenfelters 219 cam, afr 190's 58cc, superram (not the base, stock base heavily ported), edelbrocks 1 5/8" headers gutted cat and a flowmaster. Plus all the little things, afpr, k&n's, gutted maf, air boxes opened up. Accel coil, moduel and wires. Anyway, I think I've got a nice combo of parts. Well the numbers seem a little short of what they should have been. 273hp @5200 and 305 tq @ 4500. The air/fuel was pretty good. It was in the 12.2 to 12.6 range. With this setup I ran a 13.06 and a 13.08 @ 105mph - 1.97 60ft. last fall before the car went into the garage for the winter. A guy from the Corvette.forum board lives close by and tweaked the prom for me, by the air/fuel #'s , that looks pretty close. With me in the car it weighed in at 3400lbs. Oh by the way, anyone in the Chicago area, I would highly recommend Finish Line Performance in Naperville. Nice guys to deal with. Well, there's my tale of woe!!
Any input ? Thanks. Kwik88
My set up consist of 350, Lingenfelters 219 cam, afr 190's 58cc, superram (not the base, stock base heavily ported), edelbrocks 1 5/8" headers gutted cat and a flowmaster. Plus all the little things, afpr, k&n's, gutted maf, air boxes opened up. Accel coil, moduel and wires. Anyway, I think I've got a nice combo of parts. Well the numbers seem a little short of what they should have been. 273hp @5200 and 305 tq @ 4500. The air/fuel was pretty good. It was in the 12.2 to 12.6 range. With this setup I ran a 13.06 and a 13.08 @ 105mph - 1.97 60ft. last fall before the car went into the garage for the winter. A guy from the Corvette.forum board lives close by and tweaked the prom for me, by the air/fuel #'s , that looks pretty close. With me in the car it weighed in at 3400lbs. Oh by the way, anyone in the Chicago area, I would highly recommend Finish Line Performance in Naperville. Nice guys to deal with. Well, there's my tale of woe!!
Any input ? Thanks. Kwik88
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From: Motor City born and raised
A solid 300 HP at the flywheel isn't to shabby for that combo.
For some reason I think maybe the stock lower intake is restrictive??? It sure the heck lays down some good E.T.'s :hail:
Maybe changing to a MR would give you a more useable power range?
For some reason I think maybe the stock lower intake is restrictive??? It sure the heck lays down some good E.T.'s :hail:
Maybe changing to a MR would give you a more useable power range?
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From: Chander, Arizona USA
Car: 2006 Silverado 1500
Engine: 5.3L
Transmission: 4L60E
them numbers aren't too bad. i'd recomend maybe running it a bit higher in the a/f range. what were the specs of the cam you chose? any spark knock? the numbers from the dyno match the trap speed fairly close so i don't think your far off. i'm assuming your running a 9 bolt rear which has a bit more drag than the 10 bolt as well as running a large tire/heavy wheel combo or really soft compound tire. another issue you have there is the mass air flow sensor, even gutted it's restrictive. if your happy with how it runs, dyno numbers aren't a big deal...
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From: Ohio, USA
Car: 2015 Camaro Z/28 & 2013 Super Bee
Engine: LS7 and 392 HEMI
The stock ported manifold is probably hurting it and the Edelbrock headers too. I have a VERY similar setup and I'm hoping for 12.5 @ 110 MPH based on what some of the Vette guys are running, 11.5-low 12's. I haven't tuned anything yet though and I have to get a new tranny b/c I only have 1st gear left on my stock one.
What gears and TQ converter are you running? I have 3.42's and a 2200 Vigilante, but I might send the Vigilante back for a 3000 stall.
Is your tranny slipping bad? Mine was from the time I put the engine in. Then it just snapped one day. It might be sucking some HP too. Any vacuum leaks?
That combo should be good for more HP, around 320 at the wheels.
What gears and TQ converter are you running? I have 3.42's and a 2200 Vigilante, but I might send the Vigilante back for a 3000 stall.
Is your tranny slipping bad? Mine was from the time I put the engine in. Then it just snapped one day. It might be sucking some HP too. Any vacuum leaks?
That combo should be good for more HP, around 320 at the wheels.
Last edited by BuckeyeROC; Mar 13, 2002 at 04:47 PM.
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From: California
Originally posted by IROC57TPI
A solid 300 HP at the flywheel isn't to shabby for that combo.
A solid 300 HP at the flywheel isn't to shabby for that combo.
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Kwik88,
I ran that almost same combo and went 13.1@106 roasting the street tires. With slicks, it went 12.80s. I have to agree with rezinn, the headers and manifold are holding you up. Case in point, I removed the Edlebrock headers, replaced with SLP. Car responded with 12.60s, which was as fast as I ever went with that combo.
Later on, I added a Procharger, but that is another story.
Currently building 406.
Good luck,
I ran that almost same combo and went 13.1@106 roasting the street tires. With slicks, it went 12.80s. I have to agree with rezinn, the headers and manifold are holding you up. Case in point, I removed the Edlebrock headers, replaced with SLP. Car responded with 12.60s, which was as fast as I ever went with that combo.
Later on, I added a Procharger, but that is another story.
Currently building 406.
Good luck,
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
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From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
I dyno'ed 300 @ 4600 and 380 TQ @ 3500 with the AFR 190's, 9:1 comp, SLP 1 3/4, Crane compucam, and superram on a 383.
The above combo was put together by the guy who owned the car before me, except for the intake. There were 2 bad lifters, and the header gaskets actually covered some of the exhaust ports.
Your numbers do look low. Make sure you optimize everything in the combo, especially gasket matching. What kind of rockers do you run, 1.6?
You won't pick up that mutch more with an aftermarket base over your ported one. Bigger headers will get you a little more power up top.
I've found that the superram is picky about what it's paired with. Remember, it is choking off 30% of airflow compared to the miniram, so it's powerband is different.
The above combo was put together by the guy who owned the car before me, except for the intake. There were 2 bad lifters, and the header gaskets actually covered some of the exhaust ports.
Your numbers do look low. Make sure you optimize everything in the combo, especially gasket matching. What kind of rockers do you run, 1.6?
You won't pick up that mutch more with an aftermarket base over your ported one. Bigger headers will get you a little more power up top.
I've found that the superram is picky about what it's paired with. Remember, it is choking off 30% of airflow compared to the miniram, so it's powerband is different.
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From: Cottonwood, AZ 86326
I'd say that your #'s arent that bad, though I agree they could probably be better. I didn't see, but I'm assuming your running a 700R4 tranny. Well here's something to remember - with an auto tranny you lose somewhere between 15 and 30 percent to the drivetrain. In your case that would be somewhere between 40 and 80 hp (though I'd guess that the 40 would be closer). That puts you at 313 hp and 350 ft/lbs at the flywheel. Now through in your accessories for another 10-20 hp and your looking at 323/360, approximately. Not a bad little combo out of a LTR setup with stock base. You said the guy tweaked your fuel curve, did he touch your timing at all? Lot of gains/losses to be had in that area. I'd agree with everyone else about the headers, though for different reasons. The edlebrock pieces I've seen had lots of welding flash in the collectors and some at the flange. They flow a lot better if you use a grinder and clean them up (though this means you have to recoat them). Hook up to a laptop and see if you're getting any knock retard as well, that can really hurt your numbers. See if you can get your buddy to tweak your timing curve a bit for you or just manually advance the timing a few degrees if your not getting any knock retard. (retuning the chip is the better option). Timing and/or detonation could be costing you a lot of power. Hope this helps.
John
John
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From: Ohio, USA
Car: 2015 Camaro Z/28 & 2013 Super Bee
Engine: LS7 and 392 HEMI
NO WAY he should be making 313 HP at the flywheel with that combo! He should be making around 320 at the WHEELS! There is something wrong with the tuning and you really need a different manifold, as shown by your dyno numbers. I'd give 20 HP at the wheels with a different manifold, which is starting to get where you should be with that combo, around 300 HP at the wheels. The other 20 HP can probably be found in tuning and definitely a new tranny, I'd bet money his stock tranny is slipping BAD. Mine survived just HOURS of drivetime after installing this combo, and most of those were soft, break-in miles.
Here's a Vette for an example of what this combo CAN do with A LOT of tuning, of course this is a 3300 lbs Vette, but you can't run 116 MPH in this car with 313 HP at the flywheel:
Performance: Best ET: 60 ft - 1.62, 11.63 @ 116.
Modifications: Stock short block, Ram Air, ported MAF, 52 mm TB, ported Superram plenum, runners and manifold, ported AFR 190 heads, LPE 74219 hyd roller cam, 1 5/8" headers, Borla mufflers, Formato chip, 3.45 gears, Pro-Torque 2800 rpm torque converter, Weld rims, front skinnies, 26" ET streets. Raceweight 3300 lbs
Here's the page it came from:
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/bea...enSetups.shtml
Here's a Vette for an example of what this combo CAN do with A LOT of tuning, of course this is a 3300 lbs Vette, but you can't run 116 MPH in this car with 313 HP at the flywheel:
Performance: Best ET: 60 ft - 1.62, 11.63 @ 116.
Modifications: Stock short block, Ram Air, ported MAF, 52 mm TB, ported Superram plenum, runners and manifold, ported AFR 190 heads, LPE 74219 hyd roller cam, 1 5/8" headers, Borla mufflers, Formato chip, 3.45 gears, Pro-Torque 2800 rpm torque converter, Weld rims, front skinnies, 26" ET streets. Raceweight 3300 lbs
Here's the page it came from:
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/bea...enSetups.shtml
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Caldwell,ID
Car: 2005 BMW 545i
Engine: 4.4L N62B44
Transmission: 6spd auto
Axle/Gears: Rotating
lean out that friggen fuel mixture
only reason I can see running in the 12.2-12.6 range is if you are having detonation problems but if you are you should use rich up the mixture to fix it.
I am guessing b/c of how rich you are running you could prolly gain about 15-20+ hp just by getting that A/F mixture to lean up a bit
only reason I can see running in the 12.2-12.6 range is if you are having detonation problems but if you are you should use rich up the mixture to fix it.
I am guessing b/c of how rich you are running you could prolly gain about 15-20+ hp just by getting that A/F mixture to lean up a bit
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From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
Hmmm.... I got 284 RW HP and 373 RW ft-lbs out of a carbed 400 with a Performer (NOT RPM) intake, a Comp XE274H cam, Edelbrock TES, stock exhaust behind that, the stock 305 air cleaner, and nothing but a set of old stock cast-iron heads with a little TLC. I thought I should have done better, maybe it wasn't so bad after all. Still, your numbers aren't too bad at all either.
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From: Palos Hills, IL
Car: 1988 IROC
Engine: 383 SP
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana S60 4:10
Thanks for the respones guys. To anwser some of the ?'s, the car
is a 1988 that just turned 21k miles on the way to get it dyno'd
Tues. No trans slipping at all. Still running the stock 22lb injectors.
With a little weight trimming the car on the scale is 3220, with my butt in the seat it's 3400. I'm using a Dynamic 2400 stall converter.
I'm looking at a vigilante in the 3000 range. I also have the Comp
1.52 roller tip rockers, considersing going to the 1.6. I've seen a couple of the guys on the Corvette.forum that some of you mentioned going 11.6's with the same basic combo, differences being stuff like bigger TB, 1.6 rockers, using the S/R base, skinnies
up front. I know alot of times it's the little things that add up, I guess maybe that I was just looking for some confirmation of that!! What do you guys think?
is a 1988 that just turned 21k miles on the way to get it dyno'd
Tues. No trans slipping at all. Still running the stock 22lb injectors.
With a little weight trimming the car on the scale is 3220, with my butt in the seat it's 3400. I'm using a Dynamic 2400 stall converter.
I'm looking at a vigilante in the 3000 range. I also have the Comp
1.52 roller tip rockers, considersing going to the 1.6. I've seen a couple of the guys on the Corvette.forum that some of you mentioned going 11.6's with the same basic combo, differences being stuff like bigger TB, 1.6 rockers, using the S/R base, skinnies
up front. I know alot of times it's the little things that add up, I guess maybe that I was just looking for some confirmation of that!! What do you guys think?
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From: Tucson,AZ,USA
Car: Junk
Engine: Junk with nitrous
Transmission: Junk with gears
Something is way wrong here. Those heads kick ***. My buddy runs those same heads in an 81 El camino with 4.11's, stall, 242 @.050 cam, 1 3/4inch headers and dual 3inch exhaust and he goes 11.90's on the motor. Car weighs 3,200 pounds. Thats GOT to be more than 320HP at the crank! Sheet, Car Craft made over 400HP with VORTEC heads, they made something like 520HP with the AFR190's.
Chris
Chris
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From: ILL
Car: 1986 Pontiac TA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.70
As mentioned, I feel that there is power to be had by leaning out the fuel mixture. I've also found additional power by playing with timing curves.
Kwik88-Did Bowtye8 burn the chip for you?
www.geocities.com/dzperf
Kwik88-Did Bowtye8 burn the chip for you?
www.geocities.com/dzperf
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 96
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From: Palos Hills, IL
Car: 1988 IROC
Engine: 383 SP
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana S60 4:10
Hitech5, Yes it was Dennis. Do you know him? I was out at his place last fall. Very quick vette he has. Nice guy, very helpfull.
As far as leaning this thing out, I thought 12.5 was what you are suppose to shoot for? I had this dyno'd about 2 years ago on a different dyno. Numbers that day were 250hp and 330tq. Now after the 190's and 219cam only a 22hp gain and a 30ftlb loss,
no way. I did go from a 13.51 @ 100mph to the 13.06 @ 105mph.
My 60 ft stayed pretty much the same. Traction is no problem, I'm
running a set of m&h racemasters and they hook real good.
My poor dyno #s have to be at least in part to a low dyno reading
on this different dyno. Does that make any sence?
As far as leaning this thing out, I thought 12.5 was what you are suppose to shoot for? I had this dyno'd about 2 years ago on a different dyno. Numbers that day were 250hp and 330tq. Now after the 190's and 219cam only a 22hp gain and a 30ftlb loss,
no way. I did go from a 13.51 @ 100mph to the 13.06 @ 105mph.
My 60 ft stayed pretty much the same. Traction is no problem, I'm
running a set of m&h racemasters and they hook real good.
My poor dyno #s have to be at least in part to a low dyno reading
on this different dyno. Does that make any sence?
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Caldwell,ID
Car: 2005 BMW 545i
Engine: 4.4L N62B44
Transmission: 6spd auto
Axle/Gears: Rotating
Originally posted by Kwik88
I thought 12.5 was what you are suppose to shoot for?
I thought 12.5 was what you are suppose to shoot for?
I have seen a few cars running best at close to 14.2 or so
the richer your mixture the harder it is for your ignition to light it off
also you are going to get a slower burn
and the hotter the combustion chamber (without pre-det) the better and the only way to get a hotter comb chamber is with a leaner mixture
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From: ILL
Car: 1986 Pontiac TA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.70
Kwik88 - Yes I know Dennis. He has been buying parts from me for a couple of years now. He was running my old Edelbrock heads for a couple of years. I was impressed by the ET and MPH he was able to generate by using the Edelbrocks, 219/219 cam and the MiniRam. I have recently picked up a WideBand A/F meter. Dennis will be using it to tune his combo. Email me if you are interested as well.
www.geocities.com/dzperf
www.geocities.com/dzperf
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From: Fort Myers,FL
Kwik88,
Hey bud. Give me a email or call and we can setup for more programming time.... I know we only spent a hour or so initially with your current chip.
I think we can find some ponies for ya
Dennis
Hey bud. Give me a email or call and we can setup for more programming time.... I know we only spent a hour or so initially with your current chip.
I think we can find some ponies for ya
Dennis
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
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From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
I ran your combo in Engine Analyzer using 11:1 compression, and all the other specs you had above, this is open exhaust:
Multiply the 401 hp times .80 for 20% drivetrain loss, and you get 321 rwhp, roughly.
Code:
RPM 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 Brake_Tq 259 299 323 335 347 372 376 368 350 324 Brake_HP 98.6 142 184 223 264 319 358 386 400 401 Exh_Pres .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 Int_Vacuum 0.0 .1 .1 .2 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 Vol_Eff_% 68.2 75.4 80.0 83.7 87.8 94.2 97.4 98.5 98.1 96.7 Actual_CFM 151 208 265 324 388 469 540 600 652 695 Fuel_Flow 52.4 72.4 92.1 112 135 163 187 208 226 241 A/F_Mix_Qal 99.6 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 BSFC .531 .509 .500 .503 .510 .511 .523 .540 .566 .602 BSAC 7.008 6.724 6.602 6.646 6.739 6.748 6.900 7.136 7.475 7.943 Friction_HP 20 29 40 53 67 86 108 132 160 192 Mach_# .158 .197 .237 .276 .316 .355 .395 .434 .474 .513 Piston_Spd 1160 1450 1740 2030 2320 2610 2900 3190 3480 3770 Piston_Gs 258 403 581 790 1032 1306 1613 1952 2323 2726 Overlap_%VE -1.6 -.5 -.5 -.5 -.3 2.0 2.4 2.3 2.1 1.8 Int_AvgVel 102 127 152 178 203 229 254 279 305 330 In_InertiaPrs .0 .1 .4 .8 1.3 1.8 2.1 2.2 2.2 2.1 In_ResTunPrs 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Ex_AvgVel 134 168 201 235 268 302 335 369 402 436 ExTun_Prs 1.1 .2 .2 .3 .1 -.8 -1.6 -1.8 -1.6 -1.3 Lifter_Pump_UpNone None None None None None None None None None Spark_Adv 22 25 28 32 33 34 34 35 36 37
Last edited by 89gta383; Apr 10, 2002 at 04:40 PM.
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
I havent read most of the messages but the 'heavily ported' part of the equation is scaring my. My thinking is that you overported the manifold base and the charge enters the heads too slow for the low cc stockers. That is decent for those heads, although. But I would pop for a new base at this point, that is where you could pull the most power from.
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From: Bound Brook, NJ USA
Car: 89 IROC-Z
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700R4
Man I hate to sound like a jerk, but I hope my new engine puts out more than that. I was hoping for around the 450hp mark and around the same torque.
I have a 383 with about 9.5:1 compression. 700R-4 @2500 stall
Edelbrock baseplate, Super Ram Plenum and Runners, SVO 24# injectors, custom chip, 1 5/8 SLP headers into 3 in cat and Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back, 58mm TB, AFR 190 heads, 1.52 rockers, Comp Cam with following specs:
Intake Exhaust
Lift .500 .510
Duration
@.006 266 276
Duration
@.05 210 220
LSA 114
Can someone plug this into Desktop Dyno or something similar please?
I have a 383 with about 9.5:1 compression. 700R-4 @2500 stall
Edelbrock baseplate, Super Ram Plenum and Runners, SVO 24# injectors, custom chip, 1 5/8 SLP headers into 3 in cat and Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back, 58mm TB, AFR 190 heads, 1.52 rockers, Comp Cam with following specs:
Intake Exhaust
Lift .500 .510
Duration
@.006 266 276
Duration
@.05 210 220
LSA 114
Can someone plug this into Desktop Dyno or something similar please?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 96
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From: Palos Hills, IL
Car: 1988 IROC
Engine: 383 SP
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana S60 4:10
Paul, I may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I don't think you'll see 450hp out of that cam. Just my .02 As for my ride, I have found 3 or 4 things that more than likely will account for my lack of hp that should be there. I'll get that stuff squared away while I'm waiting on the pi vigilante. I'll keep you guys posted on the outcome. Thanks for the input from all.
Gary
Gary
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From: Ohio, USA
Car: 2015 Camaro Z/28 & 2013 Super Bee
Engine: LS7 and 392 HEMI
Originally posted by 89gta383
I ran your combo in Engine Analyzer using 11:1 compression, and all the other specs you had above, this is open exhaust:
Multiply the 401 hp times .80 for 20% drivetrain loss, and you get 321 rwhp, roughly.
I ran your combo in Engine Analyzer using 11:1 compression, and all the other specs you had above, this is open exhaust:
Code:
RPM 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 Brake_Tq 259 299 323 335 347 372 376 368 350 324 Brake_HP 98.6 142 184 223 264 319 358 386 400 401 Exh_Pres .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 Int_Vacuum 0.0 .1 .1 .2 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 Vol_Eff_% 68.2 75.4 80.0 83.7 87.8 94.2 97.4 98.5 98.1 96.7 Actual_CFM 151 208 265 324 388 469 540 600 652 695 Fuel_Flow 52.4 72.4 92.1 112 135 163 187 208 226 241 A/F_Mix_Qal 99.6 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 BSFC .531 .509 .500 .503 .510 .511 .523 .540 .566 .602 BSAC 7.008 6.724 6.602 6.646 6.739 6.748 6.900 7.136 7.475 7.943 Friction_HP 20 29 40 53 67 86 108 132 160 192 Mach_# .158 .197 .237 .276 .316 .355 .395 .434 .474 .513 Piston_Spd 1160 1450 1740 2030 2320 2610 2900 3190 3480 3770 Piston_Gs 258 403 581 790 1032 1306 1613 1952 2323 2726 Overlap_%VE -1.6 -.5 -.5 -.5 -.3 2.0 2.4 2.3 2.1 1.8 Int_AvgVel 102 127 152 178 203 229 254 279 305 330 In_InertiaPrs .0 .1 .4 .8 1.3 1.8 2.1 2.2 2.2 2.1 In_ResTunPrs 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Ex_AvgVel 134 168 201 235 268 302 335 369 402 436 ExTun_Prs 1.1 .2 .2 .3 .1 -.8 -1.6 -1.8 -1.6 -1.3 Lifter_Pump_UpNone None None None None None None None None None Spark_Adv 22 25 28 32 33 34 34 35 36 37
I've seen Vette guys with this combo on 350's get similar dynos and times/MPH's to back up the peak HP numbers, but I think the TQ numbers may be slightly higher and at lower rpms than on this table, hence the same peak HP numbers at lower rpm's. On a 383 this combo seems to be good for around 440HP and obviously a ton of TQ. I hope to have my Pro-Built tranny here and in by Sat., so I might have some track times in a couple weeks.
Last edited by BuckeyeROC; Apr 11, 2002 at 01:18 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,388
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From: Caldwell,ID
Car: 2005 BMW 545i
Engine: 4.4L N62B44
Transmission: 6spd auto
Axle/Gears: Rotating
Originally posted by 89gta383
I ran your combo in Engine Analyzer using 11:1 compression, and all the other specs you had above, this is open exhaust:
Multiply the 401 hp times .80 for 20% drivetrain loss, and you get 321 rwhp, roughly.
I ran your combo in Engine Analyzer using 11:1 compression, and all the other specs you had above, this is open exhaust:
Code:
RPM 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 Brake_Tq 259 299 323 335 347 372 376 368 350 324 Brake_HP 98.6 142 184 223 264 319 358 386 400 401 Exh_Pres .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 Int_Vacuum 0.0 .1 .1 .2 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 Vol_Eff_% 68.2 75.4 80.0 83.7 87.8 94.2 97.4 98.5 98.1 96.7 Actual_CFM 151 208 265 324 388 469 540 600 652 695 Fuel_Flow 52.4 72.4 92.1 112 135 163 187 208 226 241 A/F_Mix_Qal 99.6 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 BSFC .531 .509 .500 .503 .510 .511 .523 .540 .566 .602 BSAC 7.008 6.724 6.602 6.646 6.739 6.748 6.900 7.136 7.475 7.943 Friction_HP 20 29 40 53 67 86 108 132 160 192 Mach_# .158 .197 .237 .276 .316 .355 .395 .434 .474 .513 Piston_Spd 1160 1450 1740 2030 2320 2610 2900 3190 3480 3770 Piston_Gs 258 403 581 790 1032 1306 1613 1952 2323 2726 Overlap_%VE -1.6 -.5 -.5 -.5 -.3 2.0 2.4 2.3 2.1 1.8 Int_AvgVel 102 127 152 178 203 229 254 279 305 330 In_InertiaPrs .0 .1 .4 .8 1.3 1.8 2.1 2.2 2.2 2.1 In_ResTunPrs 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Ex_AvgVel 134 168 201 235 268 302 335 369 402 436 ExTun_Prs 1.1 .2 .2 .3 .1 -.8 -1.6 -1.8 -1.6 -1.3 Lifter_Pump_UpNone None None None None None None None None None Spark_Adv 22 25 28 32 33 34 34 35 36 37
anyway you can send this program to your cheap *** import friend??
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 13
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
Code:
RPM 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 Brake_Tq 310 346 360 370 387 396 389 370 320 206 Brake_HP 118 165 206 247 295 339 371 387 366 255 Exh_Pres .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 Int_Vacuum 0.0 .1 .1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .7 Vol_Eff_% 74.6 80.7 83.7 87.3 92.0 95.8 97.4 97.0 93.2 83.9 Actual_CFM 178 241 299 364 438 514 580 636 666 650 Fuel_Flow 61.8 83.5 104 126 152 178 201 221 231 226 A/F_Mix_Qal 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 BSFC .524 .507 .504 .512 .516 .526 .543 .570 .633 .886 BSAC 6.913 6.699 6.659 6.762 6.818 6.948 7.174 7.526 8.353 11.701 Friction_HP 22 32 44 58 75 96 120 149 180 229 Mach_# .176 .220 .264 .308 .351 .395 .439 .483 .527 .571 Piston_Spd 1250 1563 1875 2188 2500 2813 3125 3438 3750 4063 Piston_Gs 283 442 637 867 1133 1433 1770 2141 2548 2991 Overlap_%VE -1.0 -.4 -.3 -.1 1.3 2.2 2.2 2.0 1.6 1.2 Int_AvgVel 109 137 164 192 219 246 274 301 328 356 In_InertiaPrs 0.0 .2 .6 1.0 1.5 1.8 2.0 1.9 1.8 1.6 In_ResTunPrs 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Ex_AvgVel 145 181 217 253 289 325 361 397 434 470 ExTun_Prs 1.2 .3 .3 0.0 -.4 -1.2 -1.6 -1.6 -1.3 -1.0 Lifter_Pump_UpNone None None None None None None None Some Severe Spark_Adv 23 26 28 29 30 30 31 32 33 35
Last edited by 89gta383; Apr 11, 2002 at 07:55 AM.
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From: Bound Brook, NJ USA
Car: 89 IROC-Z
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700R4
Well I must admit I'm a little disappointed. I thought for sure I'd be up a little higher in the numbers. Changing the intake setup is not an option at this time. Maybe in the future, but being in college kills the money and time factors.
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From: Warsaw, Indiana
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 427 LSX
Transmission: Turbo 400
Could you tell me how a 383 with the same induction makes less HP than the 350?? Is it the cam?? Maybe a half point lower compression. The 383 has a better baseplate too!
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,054
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From: Ohio, USA
Car: 2015 Camaro Z/28 & 2013 Super Bee
Engine: LS7 and 392 HEMI
Originally posted by 89gta383
This is Paul's combo. The program tends to underestimate torque somewhat. If you get rid of the superram and add an LT1 or miniram, you'd pick up 40 hp. The superram is a 30% flow restriction on airflow.
This is Paul's combo. The program tends to underestimate torque somewhat. If you get rid of the superram and add an LT1 or miniram, you'd pick up 40 hp. The superram is a 30% flow restriction on airflow.
Last edited by BuckeyeROC; Apr 11, 2002 at 11:24 AM.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 13
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
Code:
RPM 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 Brake_Tq 303 345 363 377 403 417 417 403 361 245 Brake_HP 115 164 207 251 307 358 397 423 412 303 Exh_Pres .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 Int_Vacuum 0.0 .1 .1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .7 .8 .8 Vol_Eff_% 74.4 80.7 84.3 88.9 95.2 100.1 102.7 103.4 100.7 91.5 Actual_CFM 177 241 302 371 454 537 612 678 720 709 Fuel_Flow 61.5 83.5 105 129 158 186 212 235 250 246 A/F_Mix_Qal 96.9 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 BSFC .534 .508 .505 .512 .513 .521 .535 .557 .607 .813 BSAC 7.050 6.705 6.671 6.759 6.772 6.883 7.068 7.353 8.011 10.731 Friction_HP 22 32 44 58 75 97 121 150 181 231 Mach_# .160 .200 .240 .280 .320 .360 .400 .440 .480 .520 Piston_Spd 1250 1563 1875 2188 2500 2813 3125 3438 3750 4063 Piston_Gs 283 442 637 867 1133 1433 1770 2141 2548 2991 Overlap_%VE -1.0 -.4 -.3 -.1 1.5 2.2 2.2 1.9 1.5 1.1 Int_AvgVel 107 134 161 188 215 242 269 295 322 349 In_InertiaPrs .0 .2 .7 1.3 1.9 2.5 2.8 3.0 2.9 2.6 In_ResTunPrs 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 Ex_AvgVel 145 181 217 253 289 325 361 397 434 470 ExTun_Prs 1.2 .3 .3 0.0 -.5 -1.3 -1.5 -1.5 -1.3 -1.0 Lifter_Pump_UpNone None None None None None None None Some Severe Spark_Adv 25 28 29 30 31 31 32 32 34 35
I have flow sheets to prove that the mini-ram is worth 40 horses, that's why I'm switching to an LT1, it's choking off my ported heads.
The superram is picky about what it's paired with. I don't know where Paul got that cam from, but the LPE 219 cam is worth 20 horse over his comp cam, and so is the comp cam 305.
The 383 will make less hp because it moves the power band lower, so you can go up in duration, lift and airflow to compensate. I have a 383, don't believe everything you hear. Without 11:1 compression and bigger headers, plus more air, you won't see the real benefit of the cubes.
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From: Warsaw, Indiana
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 427 LSX
Transmission: Turbo 400
I do not buy that program's data. IMO, if I have "x" amount of air and "y" amount of efficiency, I will make similar power. So I believe the 383 should make more HP. Also, the comment about not seeing the benefit of cubes sounds like someone is getting too caught up in desktop dyno.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 13
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
Whatever dude. I've got a superram, and I can tell you that it's a picky intake, meaning it makes more power with certain combo's.
I've also flowed each on a flow bench, so I have numbers to back it up. When I get my LT1 intake, I'll even dyno both intakes to be sure that the superram is killing power, and where the power curve differs.
The program is never going to be 100% accurate, but it does make assumptions based on basic engine theory.
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
From: Ohio, USA
Car: 2015 Camaro Z/28 & 2013 Super Bee
Engine: LS7 and 392 HEMI
Originally posted by 89gta383
Whatever dude. I've got a superram, and I can tell you that it's a picky intake, meaning it makes more power with certain combo's.
I've also flowed each on a flow bench, so I have numbers to back it up. When I get my LT1 intake, I'll even dyno both intakes to be sure that the superram is killing power, and where the power curve differs.
The program is never going to be 100% accurate, but it does make assumptions based on basic engine theory.
Whatever dude. I've got a superram, and I can tell you that it's a picky intake, meaning it makes more power with certain combo's.
I've also flowed each on a flow bench, so I have numbers to back it up. When I get my LT1 intake, I'll even dyno both intakes to be sure that the superram is killing power, and where the power curve differs.
The program is never going to be 100% accurate, but it does make assumptions based on basic engine theory.
I don't doubt the MR flows more, I know it does, I just don't think there is any advantage at the rpm's that this combo makes power at. In fact, I think the MR would be a disadvantage, netting the same HP and giving up low end TQ with this combo. Not trying to flame, like I said, I may be wrong, but PLEASE show me the results of this b/c if you pick up 40 HP and TQ is not affected much, I may switch to an LT1 intake myself. I could sell my SR for more than the cost of an LT1 swap. My email is available from this site, PLEASE email me the results, I am VERY interested.
Last edited by BuckeyeROC; Apr 12, 2002 at 01:09 AM.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 13
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
I told you, I have 2 friends with miniram's and their cars pull just as hard as mine. I do beat one to the 1/8th mile, but he always out mph's me and he has a 350, compared to my 383.
In my case, with the ported AFR's, my heads flowed 282 @ .500 lift alone, and with the superram attached flowed 244 @ .500.
I know it's a restriction, I've already paid $500 bucks to get it fully ported and it's still cutting off air. The miniram I flowed was on different heads, but the heads alone flowed 248, and with the miniram attached, it flowed 243, with the superram, 219.
I ran the 110 mph in the quarter spinning the nitto's thru first gear, so I think the mph would be more like 112-114 with traction. I should pick up some hp with the LT1 intake.
I'm going to tell you that torque without traction is useless. All the guys that say I'll lose torque by switching intakes are looking at the wrong results. With the superram, afr heads, and LPE 219 cam, with a good convertor, I can't hook the car up at the track to save my life. I can spin the nittos thru first and second gear, and on the street, half of third. With the LT1 intake, I hope to move some of that power upwards, so maybe I can hook up with some et streets.
In my case, with the ported AFR's, my heads flowed 282 @ .500 lift alone, and with the superram attached flowed 244 @ .500.
I know it's a restriction, I've already paid $500 bucks to get it fully ported and it's still cutting off air. The miniram I flowed was on different heads, but the heads alone flowed 248, and with the miniram attached, it flowed 243, with the superram, 219.
I ran the 110 mph in the quarter spinning the nitto's thru first gear, so I think the mph would be more like 112-114 with traction. I should pick up some hp with the LT1 intake.
I'm going to tell you that torque without traction is useless. All the guys that say I'll lose torque by switching intakes are looking at the wrong results. With the superram, afr heads, and LPE 219 cam, with a good convertor, I can't hook the car up at the track to save my life. I can spin the nittos thru first and second gear, and on the street, half of third. With the LT1 intake, I hope to move some of that power upwards, so maybe I can hook up with some et streets.
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From: Warsaw, Indiana
Car: 1991 Firebird
Engine: 427 LSX
Transmission: Turbo 400
I can spin my bfg drags only in first. Either you are not talking about nitto drag radials or they are very terrible tires.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 13
From: St. Augustine, FL
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 383
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt-3.73
Yes, I'm talking about nitto drag radials.
Just because they are drag radials doesn't mean that they will stick like glue, they don't. I'm not the only one to give up on them and get some et streets or slicks.
When you are making decent power, you need a wrinkle wall tire and/or suspension mods.
Just because they are drag radials doesn't mean that they will stick like glue, they don't. I'm not the only one to give up on them and get some et streets or slicks.
When you are making decent power, you need a wrinkle wall tire and/or suspension mods.
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