A little more than a week ago, my parents brought home an '89 Camaro IROC-Z (5.8L 350 V8 TPI, L98 engine/4spd auto). We knew when we bought it that it would probably need some engine work (it had more than 160K miles on it), but the price was right. We got it home (about an hour away) with no problems. The next day, it didn't want to start (engine would turn over, but it wouldn't even try to run)...

Anyways, my dad and I spent all of yesterday changing the oil/oil filter (which didn't really need to be done), changing the spark plugs (took way longer than it should have), changing the spark wires, distributor cap, and rotor. We also cleaned in around the intake and idle air control valve. Turned the key and it started right up. We drove it around for about ten minutes and gave it some gas here and there, and it ran great (hesitated comming out of idle, but great other than that). Now, a day later, I go out to try and start it, and it's just like it was before we did anything.

My dad says now that we're looking at an engine rebuild. Basically, he says that the seals around the valves in the heads are worn out (to be expected with 160K miles on a sportscar) and that oil is leaking through and fowling up the sparkplugs. That would explain why it started great on fresh sparkplugs, then overnight when oil had time to seep through, it won't start. Makes sense...

My dad just called a mechanic this morning, and was quoted ~$850.00 to get the parts, bore the engine, and rebuild the heads--that means that we take out the engine, take it apart, give him the block and heads (assuming that we don't need any crank work done), he does his stuff and gives them back, and then we put it all back together and put the new engine in the car.

Neither my dad nor I have ever rebuilt an engine before, but to me that price just seems really high. I've got this Summit Racing catalog sitting in front of me that says that I can get an engine rebuild kit (with "everything I need") for $339 (forged) or a hypereutectic (whatever that means) for $259. Am I missing something here?

Here's the problem: I am on spring break right now, and I've got a lot of time and not a lot of money. My parents can foot the bill if they have to, but since I'm the one that's going to be driving the car, I'd like to do whatever I can to minimize costs (that and they're obviously a little tapped-out right now after having just bought a car--good deal or not). Also, I really need to have my car up and running by the end of spring break because I need something to drive by the time school starts (I go to school about a half-hour away from home).

So I guess I would like to hear from someone who has rebuilt an engine before and could let me know what it entails, or at least give me some advice on how to minimize costs/make things easier. How much is there that just *has* to be done by a professional? What can I do myself to minimize labor costs?

And also, if nothing else, if anyone knows of some reputable/inexpensive mechanics or anyone else who does engine rebuilds in the Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas area, I'd be interested to know.

Thanks a lot for any advice!

 

Congratulations on the purchase! I haven't seen the spark plugs out of the car, and they may indeed be covered in oil, but having a car that won't start doesn't neccessarily mean you should jump straight to an engine rebuild. Something I would go ahead and do no matter what is change the fuel filter. It's cheap, easy, and doesn't take long to do. Not saying that's the problem, but you should probably do that anyways. I'd say give everybody here a little while to throw some ideas out there to save you the time and money involved in a complete rebuild. Speaking of which, it would be faster to buy a rebuilt longblock and just swap it with the current one. Cheaper too if you swapped it yourself, but that could be tough to handle during your break.

Oh yeah, the thing with the prices.... There are two reasons the mechanic prices are so much higher than the kits. First, the mechanic will charge a lot for labor. Second, if they are going to rebuild your actual engine instead of swapping with a different one, you'll be paying for machine work on it also.

One more thing. Hypereutectic pistons are sort of a middle ground between standard cast pistons and forged ones. Hypereutectic pistons are cast, but have a high percentage of silicon than regular cast pistons. An all around improvement to cast.

 

i doubt that it needs rebuilt. do some basic trouble shooting and see what you have, make sure you have a good tune up to start with. i'd be looking at the injectors and fuel system if it were me. does it have any codes set?

 

Thanks for the replies so far!

I agree that an engine that won't start doesn't neccessairly constitute an engine rebuild. However, I'm almost positive that the heads need to be rebuilt. Here's why:

- Smoke shoots out of the exhaust at startup (the few times it actually did start), but not at idle
- Smoke shoots out of the exhaust when I "gun" the throttle
- The engine hesitates comming out of idle
- The old spark plugs (which were ***-knows-how old) were definately fowled.
- Before we changed the spark plugs, it wouldn't start; after we changed them, it started like a new car (the first few times). Then we let it sit overnight, and it won't start again. I've since taken out two of the new spark plugs, and they both look almost as bad as the old ones. I should note that that's after less than 30 min of driving time.

I could be wrong, but based on my (somewhat limited) knowledge, those are all symptoms of oil getting in places where it shouldn't be. So I guess it's possible that we could get away with just rebuilding the heads, and we might end up just doing that instead of a complete rebuild. I just personally feel that, if we're going to go into the engine far enough to have to pull the heads off, we might as well go ahead and just rebuild the whole thing. Also, aside from the heads, we've taken it into a mechanic who said that the timing chain is probably stretched out and it would be a good idea to get that replaced. Plus, there's oil running all down the bottom of the oil pan and then down the transmission pan, and it's originating in the very front of the engine (between the oil pan and the harmonic balancer), which might mean/probably means that the main bearings are worn.

I could be wrong, though. This is only my second car, and I've only been working on cars since my first one ( '88 Camaro Sport Coupe: 2.8L FI V6, 4spd auto -- if you've ever driven a 3rd gen V6, you can probably guess why I wanted an IROC ).

I don't have any codes, but I'll definately check that out. I've got a code scanner that I got from Wal-Mart that I'll run on it...

 

If the engine burns oil at startup, it probably needs valve guide seals. This does not require removing the heads.

$850 is WWWWAAAAAAYYYYYYY too little for a shop to rebuild a motor. For that amount of money, what will happen, is that you'll get a slap-together mass-produced "remanufactured" generic block with some kind of dished pistons and junk heads, that will make 2/3 as much power as what you have now if you're lucky; and your nice late-model roller block with halfway decent heads will end up in some parts store employee's car.

Has the car been sitting up for a while? If so, get it to run and burn off every molecule of gas you can, then fill it up with fresh fuel. It might work a whole lot better.

160k miles isn't all that much for a small block Chevy motor that's been properly cared for. I have a 305 (same motor except a smaller bore) with 343,000 miles on it, still runs fine.

 

RB, the price quoted was for block machine work and rebuild parts only (no disassembly/reassembly), and heads rebuilt. All on his pieces, no exchange involved. That isn't such a low price, sounds about right for that amount of work/parts, if it includes block tanking, cam bearing and freeze/galley plug replacement.

But, I agree, you probably don't need an engine rebuild. You may need one more "tune-up" part - and oxygen sensor (also known as O2 sensor). About $25, fairly easy to replace. A bad one can cause a rich running condition without turning on the engine service light, along with the other symptoms you describe.

I agree the valve stem seals may well be worn, hardened, and/or cracked, but like RB says, that's something that can be fixed without taking the engine apart (what it takes to get the valve covers off and spark plugs out, that's about it).

 

If at all possible I would do a leakdown test and compression test.

 

Sancho,

Welcome Aboard!

You've had some good advice so far. Do some diagnosis before you open up the patient, and check all the normal maintenance items, like filters, fluids, all wear parts, ignition components, fuel system, etc.

Valve seal oil leakage is a very common issue on older Chevrolet V-8s, and usually doesn't create enough oil consumption to even decrease the oil level between changes or even foul the spark plugs. It's just the annoyance of the blue puff of smoke on cold starts. And the advice you have been given is absolutely proper - you don't have to remove the heads to replace the stem seals. On the other hand, you should do some diagnosis before doing any repairs so you have an overall plan of attack. You would be wasting your time changing valve stem seals if the heads had to be removed for a valve grind a month later.

Changing the oil probably was a good idea, especially if the engine is running rich enough to foul the plugs. And it's a good, inexpensive, and easy start to catching up on all the maintenance due for a vehicle of that age and mileage.

As for good/inexpensive mechanics in the DFW area, it's no different there than in NYC, Elko NV, Los Angeles, Prentice WI, Chicago, or Swift Current SK. Big town, small town, or the middle of "Nowhere's Ville", a good mechanic is never "cheap". It's just a supply/demand thing, and it doesn't just occur in the automotive repair field. Doctors, garbage haulers, lawyers, roofers, plumbers, dentists - it doesn't matter. The best ones will have what some might consider high rates, but will usually be the most cost-effective overall. A guy that charges $30.00 an hour but spends three days diagnosing your problem is no bargain compared to the top-notch technician that charges $55.00 per hour but gets it done (and done correctly the first time) in four hours. You get exactly what you pay for - never more, and sometimes even less. I'm not an automotive technician by trade, just a hobbyist, but it's pretty clear that the true bargain is getting a quality person at a fair rate.

In this case, if you have the time and are willing to learn something and get your fingernails dirty, you can do a lot of the diagnosis yourself.