hey, im sure alot of you already know about the new pontiac gto with the gen III LS1 in it and the t56....

they are saying low 14's stock?? that doesn't sound right to me, i know the car weighs in at 3,700, but damn.....14's? i'll bet a catback & headers are gunna open these cars up.

i bet were going to see some seriously modded out GTO's running the tracks in the next few years.



*Edit*
Oh here's the link....lol

http://www.engine-power.com/pontiac/2004_gto.html

 

I'm thinking it'll run low-mid 13's. Figure .3 seconds slower than a F-Body because of weight. But the GTO also has better gearing in the trans so it probably won't even be that much.

Make mine an '05

 

I'm thinkin high 13's/ low 14's . That car is ridiculously heavy. IMO it's ugly, heavy and needs a LS6 behind it. What the heck is GM doing? Ford releases the 03 Monster Cobra and the General adds wait and uses the same power plant. The C6 better be amazing thats all I have to say.

 

It's a "de-tuned" LS1. 14.9 quarter , 6.9sec 0-60mph. Pretty brutal.

P.S I've virtually lost interest in anything "new" GM has released or is planning to release.

 

I'd like to take a test drive before making up my mind.

 

Should be a solid 13 second car just from looking at the #'s. It's not "detuned" either. BTW, rumor is the new vettes will have 500 hp. 6.0 liter LSwhatever motor, lol.

 

That thing is a tank.

I personally like the look and I'm sure the looks will grow on most people. I'm glad that Holden is finally having some influence on the GM North American market. Now if we can only get that Holden El Camino over here....

Should give most mildly modded thirdgen a run for its money anyway; much like the 98-03 TA's.

 

It'll be fast but a definete step backward IMO.

The car looks plain. If I pulled up next to that without knowing it had a LS1 power plant I wouldnt give it a second look. It looks like a cavalier IMO and is suppose to be a continuation of one of the badest cars ever made. The old one's look flat out mean. This looks like an old mans car with an ls1. At least give it a scoop,blisters, louvers, etc.

Sorry to rant I just hate the body on that thing so bad.

 

The new GTO's gonna have true duals though. Atleast Something's going in the right direction!

 

Pfft!! it aint sh*t!! :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

 

IMO it looks like they just restyled a Grand Prix...

 

I have heard somewhere, i think chevrolet's website, That the car is going to be in the high 13's. But who knows which is accurate.

 

Its not a detuned LS1. Its going to be rated at 350HP and 360TQ. How is that detuned?

Its heavy but not that much heavier than a 4th gen. My 96 WS6 Formula weighed in at 3470 or 3660 with me in it. 100 lbs equals a tent, so 3 tenths slower. Some F-Bodies can get into the 12's bone stock, I know of a couple that did it. Most run low 13s. So figure it'll run low-mid 13s with a good driver and M6. A4 cars are going to be slower until a converter is installed. Then things get leveled out.

As for looks, its supposed to look Grand Prixish and Grand Amish, it a Pontiac! The original GTO looked like a Grand Prix, Bonneville, Catalina, etc. Its a styling "theme" that goes into the cars. Park a row of 1964 Pontiacs together and stand away from them, say 20 yards or so. They'll all pretty much look alike. Do the same thing with today's line up, there is actually more difference but you get the picture. The only thing lacking is something on the hood like all previous GTO's had.

Other than that, this GTO will blow away any previous GTO in all categories: handling, stopping, acceleration, comfort, economy, etc.

 

HALF of you guys are clueless... It has a more agressive cam, dual exhaust, IRS, and a quality build. yea, the car is gunna be heavy... but the aftermarket for the ls1 is expansive and the aftermarket for the monaro down in the AU is so large for this car. This is austrailans camaro/firebird/corvette/gto/etc all rolled into one. the Monaro is THE car that GM makes down under. And if anyone of you guys thought about it, the GTO back in 65 was a Lemans family car with large *****. What does the GTO look like? Yea.. you guessed it. i saw Mid to low 13's as the extra power from the underated LS1 should really put the car at over 320rwhp, since some freak LS1's put close to that stock. You guys really need to look at the big picture. They took a car that has very nice style and a brass set and brought it over here, and they did it in record time!! Seriously... GM needs to test the RWD waters again. GM gets its hands on the styling next year, but I dont want retro crap. Trust me, you guys dont know what this car is gunna do for GM. This is, and the CTS-V are the future for GM. TTA was right when he said this GTO will blow any other GTO out of the water. The LS1 engine is the best thing to grace GM since the creation of the muscle car. An LS6 would drive up costs for an engine series that is going to be phased out in 2 years. The new Gen IV small block, the "LS2" will be the next step and will probably make Ford choke on this supercharged crap. The Cobra is an all forged engine with a blower, and you cant beat that, but GM hasnt done that bad when the SS raced the Cobra. It was only a tad behind the Cobra in eveything, and that was with a 65hp disadvantage!!! In 2 years, the GTO will own the streets... mark my words. Ford can throw on twin turbo superchargers with 4 e-turbos, and it wont touch what GM has instore for the next line up of RWD cars. I want to stop the spread of ignorance on this car right now. The GTO is going to be one fast car, and with mods only get faster. The LS1 is a reliable engine and the best OHV engine to date. I wouldnt be surprised to see LS6's ending up in some of them. All the blocks are LS6 now because both factories that make the LS series engines went to the LS6 casting. Its all in the heads. a simple swap and its over. There are Monaros down under that are pushing out way more then 500hp. GM is getting on the ball now that Lutz has control of the machine. GM always finds away to get the right people in the right spot at the right time... sometimes it takes a little jumpstart.


oh yea, and if you ever raced one, POST UP. Im sure they will run good in the 1/4 cause anyone that gets one is gunna be an enthusiast, not some Everyday Guy or soccer mom is gunna buy... give them the focking SUV's... ill take my 350hp GTO. Someone snapped pictures of several GTO's on a car carrier, heading east. They will hit show rooms in late sept, november... just intime to put them in the garage for winter... so they can mod the crap out of it!!!

If the average perons on this site raced one, they would have there a$$ handed to them...

 

I kinda like it...

I'm REALLY REALLY diggin the new Caddy CTS V

Different front bumper and rocker panels..and..oh yeah a ZO6 drivetrain

 

"It's a "de-tuned" LS1. 14.9 quarter , 6.9sec 0-60mph. Pretty brutal."


"Its not a detuned LS1. Its going to be rated at 350HP and 360TQ. How is that detuned?"


"All the blocks are LS6 now because both factories that make the LS series engines went to the LS6 casting."

Hmmmm???......I wonder what else may be different?? ( and most likely is!)

I re-iterate my original statement. The GTO powerplant is a "detuned" LS1. This was a "direct" quote from the President of GM on a segment I saw featuring the new GTO. GM may quite
possibly drop in the H.O LS1 (as found in the Corvettes), but judging by what I've heard so far it doesn't sound like it anytime soon.

And no, I don't think the GTO will revolutionize the performance market for Pontiac ( and GM for that matter). I thought the new "Monte Carlo" and "Monte Carlo SS", Cadillac CTS ( blah blah blah ) were gonna be great but was soo disappointed with them when they arrived. There has been nothing in GM's treasure chest of goodies that his impressed me lately ( other than the Corvette, but where would GM be without it?) so I am not counting on nor have my hopes up for a quickly "restyled" Grand Prix with a different powerplant to change my opinion.

When it comes down to it the import market ( not necessarily Japanese ) has drastically been looking a whole lot more attractive to me in these last few years. Sure GM has some great new "technological" concepts in the works right now, but there use of "new" technology in MOST of their vehicles ( as compared to imports ) is pretty pathetic ( and I think they know it).

BTW, as much as I have loved GM and want to, my next new vehicle purchase will not be a GM product.

And yes, I too have heard the "new" vette has a 6.0 litre 500 hp powerplant.



Just my 2 cents.

 

How is the CTS V a dissapointment? The comforts of a caddy and the HP of a ZO6..works for me :sillylol:

 

I want a Holden Lumina SS.

 

How can you call an engine that puts out 25hp more then an fbody be called to detuned? wtf? the LS6 block gives you no power. Just strength. The heads are still LS1 spec, the intake, as all LS1 intakes after 01, are of LS6 design(5hp gain between 00 and 01) and the cam is a cross between the z06 cam and the ls1 cam. Now mind you they said the vette had 350hp, but that engine was the SAME as the engine in the fbodies, just different exhaust. Now... with a more aggressive cam, free flowing exhaust... i wouldnt be surprised to see this car putting down 330-335 at the wheels. A car that is a world away was redesigned, the factory was retooled for left hand drive, and new parts, badges and other body parts all made and done in 2 years!! The GTO is a showcase to show that GM can play with the big boys... now the CTS-V... that is a whole new level!! All RWD GM cars will go with a cheaper version of the Sigma platform that the CTS rides on... cheap enuff to make in the US... if thats the case, to share cost... GM could make a lot of RWD cars for really cheap and have quailty because of the chassis sharing. Look at the Trailblazer family... Every division has it. From the Tblazer to the new Buick... all have different styles and levels of lux. The new Buick is on BMW, Lex and MB level and the SRX(off the sigma platform) is on the same level with a world class engine. GM is coming around.. just wait and watch. The monte and sts are no where near the level as these platforms... The Sigma platform is one of the best platforms out there. the CTS-V frame can handle the curvs of Nuremburg(sp?) and keep on pushing the envelope... GM is coming ready to play. I just want my 5th gen Camaro SS.

 

Yea really... Pick up a car rag! EVERYONE LOVES THIS CAR!! Its a M5 KILLER!! for 2/3 the price!!! The interior is top notch. engine is smooth and of course... POWERFUL!! the CTS is the future for GM. The CTS Sigma platform will be the base for all the holden cars, new deville replacement, new seville replacement already slated for realease soon as the STS, the SRX, the 5th gen camaro(maybe?), the GTO, Monte, Impy, GP, Bonnie, and probably several buick models.

 

if you think about it, GM is going to be putting out a lot of powerful cars in the next few years. the aformentioned CTS-V is indeed an M5 killer. the new z06 is somewhere around 500 hp, and even the base vette will be around 400 hp. the bonneville, Impala, monte carlo, etc. will all be getting an optional v8 (not sure which engine) tuned to about 300 HP.

what they should do, IMO, is stop messing around with brand-new models (like the SSR truck-convertible whatever) and concentrate on a new f-body. the new retro mustang is gonna sell like crazy, and GM is gonna need a nameplate to go head-to-head with it.

 

Thanks, bigals87z28

Someone who actually thinks the car will be a hit! I think once the car starts showing up, a lot of people will change what they think.

The LS1 is probably the best engine ever built by GM. Its makes incredible power and is very environmentally friendly. A hard combo to make.

And with the ZO6 6spd, I think the performance will be closer to an F-Body even with the weight difference. Same for the "detuned" version of the the LS1. That same version would have probably gotten a couple of tenths in an F-Body if it were installed.

Lots of things to look forward too...

 

as much as it pains me to say it but that market is dead for GM...Ford has been outselling GM in the pony car area for over a decade...GM cut it's losses and moved on..

Ford is doing right going retro(I love the retro stang) but GM,if they were to start now, would be YEARS behind in developing a 5thgen.

GM, in my opinion makes a better product in their vehicles(I really do mean that though I'm a GM loyal customer) but Ford sales are still up for whatever reason. Marketing perhaps, cashback rebates,maybe Ford is designing vehicle people like and think are practical..who knows but one thing was that was certain was Mustang sales destroyed Fbody sales ..THAT my friends is why the Fbody is extinct...not because of bad quality, not because they were slow(a low 13 second car with a full factory warranty is perfect) it's because Mustang damn near outsold them 2 to 1

 

There will always be a following for F-body's in all forms and years. I will have mine forever, g0d willing! Long live the F-body and NEVER buy a FORD in any form!

Bowtie till I die !

 

let me put the rumors to rest about the C6 vette...

This past weekend I was talking to the owner of a local Chevy dealship. He and about 200 other dealers throughout the country were recently invited to a preview showing of the new C6. GM trucked the C6 in, did the showing, boxed it up, and then immediately sent it back home - wherever home may be. Obviously, no cameras were allowed.

He's seen it first hand and said that GM did a great job comouflaging the cars we've all seen in various spyshots. Other than the frame the C6 is a completely different car than the Cadillac XLR. In comparison to the C5 it has a higher body line which makes the car look closer to the ground than it actually is. He also said that the C6 will be have 435HP and one year later GM will roll out the Z06 version with over 500HP. That was about the extent of technical details that GM disclosed to these dealers.

I guess take this information with a grain of salt...

i seriously doubt the 500 hp motor will come out in 1 year. i'd say 2-3 years. GM always have taken their good ole time to put an motor option to the vette. C4 took 3 years until we got the Callaway Twin Turbo vette. C5 took 3 years also until the 2000 Z06 came about...

 

The Callaway vette was an aftermarket job... but what about the ZR1? that took quite a while.

 

Just my opinion but the reason that I drive a third gen camaro is the looks, the bodylines and the style are just downright sexy and it doesnt look like any other car on the road (well a firebird but you know that), look at the the other offerings from the same era, boring and boxy. mustangs, while somewhat faster, I still woudnt buy one because Id fall asleep looking at it. Same thing with every new car including 4th gens (sorry guys that have them) well...some of the firehawks look pretty good but thats about it, everything is round and boring no matter how fast it is, the new gto included. My next new daily driver will be a mini-cooper, or maybe a lancer evo, the mini is dripping with style compared to anything else and its the anti-suv vehicle of the decade (*** I hate suvs), the lancer just because its a race car that you can drive everyday. While Im driving one of these new cars I will be stealing one of the great drivetrains from the new boring body styles whether its a new GTO or a SS or maybe even and LT1 from an older f-body, either way I will have style and speed/emissions/gas mileage/longetivity in a totally killer and origional body style. Sorry about my rambling but Im very bored with evrything GM has to offer (except the drivetrains of course) and this is how Im going to deal with it until they come out with a good looking, fast something-or-other. Also I have been drinking right now.

 

your right but the Callaway was still sold thru GM not Callaway. it had RPO B2K with a base of 345hp 465 torque to final production in 91 with 390hp and 562 torque.

the ZR1 started life in 87 finally reaching the public in 90. starting with the 90-92 375 hp 370 torque. 93-95 405 hp 385 torque.

 

The lancer is a race car? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH...mags got it running low 13's..I've yet to see a driver at the track break a 13.8...hardly a screaming race car...but if that's what you like, then all the power to you

 

a race car with a warranty, Ive been following lancers for about 5 years now (way before the F and the F ) and I know what it takes to make it a 3 second 0-60 monster with minimal effort with insane handling to go along with it, besides its going to be a daily driver try getting any camaro to handle like that car for the same price.

 

like I said, it's your money though the car is *** ugly...

I'd put my GTA up against it in an autocross comp. when its back on the road late winter

Don't get me wrong, for what it is it's impressive for the $$$..if that's your thing

 

yea i like it (the lancer) but im really leaning towards the mini, ive always wanted the old style but I like the new style too, less than 20k with a supercharger whoot whoot!

 

if i did get a lancer tho I would cahnge anything on it for a while anyway cause of its daily driver duty, I love my camaro way more so the money would go to that my camaro is my heart!!! it gets my money and attention first

 

The 500hp mill for teh Z06 already exsits. You saw it in every car rag, at all the big car shows, and has been on the lips of a lot of people.... Caddies V-16

The V-16 is a pushrod engine, and if you cut the 16 in half... what do you get? you guess it... a V-8. The LS2 Gen IV small block is already being tested in mule XLR's and C5.5's. Base engine will cary 400hp, but there is still speculation on the Z06 model. the Z06 will be released a year after the C6 hits the floor. Some of the LS1 archutecture will cary onto the LS2 like the intake, intake runners in the heads, but the heads could have a "big block" style valve set up to improve breathing. Also, they are testing a 3 valves per cyl OHV engine... yea... 1 cam... 24 valves... There are test mules already running this set of heads... Ill get you a picture if you PM me. I read in some austrailian mag that GM is going to keep building the sigma platform, while Holden will desgin a cheaper sigma-lite platform for mass production that will be shared all over the world. Also, the mag said that the displacements for the next Gen IV are going to be 5.3, 6.0, 6.2, 7.0, and 8.1.. I can only assume with this data that the 6.0 will be the same engine in the SS concept(that is an LS2 engine) And the 6.2 will be the 500 hp mill the Z06 gets... GM is ready to step it up too with its new performance division. The HP wars have started,... who knows when it will all end again. Dam i hate cycles...

 

if its as fast as it is ugly we better watch out

 

How is the GTO ugly man!! Its just not a GTO in your mind... its not that big muscle car we all want it to be... it shouldnt... it should be what it is. I think they look pretty dam good and it will define a new era in the GTO book. Just look at the times back then, then look at them now. The GTO will take off.

 

The GTO is nice IMO but I don't think it will sell, not at the price range GM is talking...35K? Hmmm isn't that close to what a fully loaded WS6 was? Why didn't the Fbodies sell?? hmmmm

I think it'll be too much $$ for a lot of people to spend on a Pontiac

 

I've heard $33K with a 6spd. I believe the A4 will be less.

The F-Body didn't sell because women didn't buy them. Bad rep for ride and ergonomics. Couldn't tell where the front end was, too low to the ground, etc. Normal stuff that sells cars. It wasn't because of price as it was about the same price as the Mustang.

 

Yea, it wasnt the price, it was a few things
-Politics
-low sales (especialy of the 6cyl model)
-Crash standards
-insurance
etc...

There were a lot of sales for SS and WS6 models, almost as many top line fbodies sold as 6 bangers, and since anyone who gets a GTO is gunna be an enthusiast, and not some average ahole, the 18k cars should go quick. If dealers dont mark it up like they did with the tbird and other retro name plates, sales should stay fine. The last of the 4th gens were really bought by guys who loved cars. No one gets a SS camaro because they like the hood, right? Mustangs are just chick cars... sorry, they are. 390hp... dont care... still see more chicks in 6 banger stangs then guys in GT's. To see a girl in a fbody, not just a 4th gen, third, 2nd or first... just any fbody is rare. Think about it. How many girls do we have on this site? go to a mustang site, and im sure there will be plenty. The GTO will sell and sell out as long as dealerships fock anything up. Yea, they say 33k and the 6spd is the only option. its like an extra 700. Not bad for a T56 swap.

 

While you guys bring up good points, you could see spending $28K on a fbody? MOST people aren't like us, aren't die hard enthusiasts...they'd rather spend thousands less on the Mustang.

I really hope the GTO does well, its a sharp lookin car

 

ls2 will be a 6.0l ~425hp. ls7 will be a 6.4l ~500hp. from a reliable source on corvetteforums.com

 

yea, i figured that to be about right. I dont know about the 6.4. The place where i got my info was strait from holden. They said the displacment for the next gen RWD cars was what i posted. I can see a 6.2(383) putting 500. They already have that 6.0 in that SS concpet putting out 430. But the base C6 will get a 400+ engine and the Z06 will get near 450 if not more.

 

Hey.. you guys.... remember you said it will look just like a grand prix, only a glorified grand prix?



Grand prix<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>glorified grand prix





I think they will sell just fine....