Ok. My father owns a 1968 camaro convertible ss/rs with a 1969 DZ302 the Z-28 motor. He has 2 - 4 barrel edelbrock carbs, hooker headers, and thats about it. About 5,000 miles on the rebuild, and it is a 4 speed manual hurst shifter with 4.10 gears.
He claims he can run a 13.8 but im kinda weary on that.

My friend wants to race him with his 1991 Z-28 camaro. 350TPI auto. he is pretty much bone stock so should be running around high 14's. does my friend have a chance? because i know i don't. I got a 1992 305tpi Z. The question is how fast is this 68 gonna be>? I want to make a fool outa my pops because all my friends want to race him in there cars, and he talks alotta ****!

Thanks alot - Pete
P.S. we gotta take down this old fart.

 

I think it would be close more toward the 3rd gent hough cause the low end TQ and such should be enough to run that 1st gen pretty good...I wouldnt know either...although that 1st. gen should have a lil more snort than a 13.8...hmmm I dunno close call

Jason

 

I give it to the 68 easily. A DZ302 is not a motor to be taken lightly and when matched up with 4.11's, it is a real screamer. The third gen probably makes a little bit more torque than the 68, but the 68 is going to make a lot more horsepower and it will make it higher in the RPM's making the 4.11's a good thing. The 68 is lighter than the third gen too. The third gen is probably more consistant, but this isnt a bracket race. The 68 is gonna whoop up on the third gen, unless your old man can't drive. Of course, keep us posted and VIDEO TAPE it if possible.

 

Gonna have to agree with Ian, I'd choose the '68 any day of the week.

 

A member of my car club has a 1969 302 -Z hardtop and all he has done is add 373's and exhaust and when the club went to the track last fall he was running a consistant 13.3 quarter so I would have to bet on pops for this one.

 

the 302 out of 69-69 z-28's was factory rated @270 hp but in reality it was closeer to 390 hp from what i've heard they rated it lower for insurance purposes

 

unless "pops" relocated the rear shock mounts, hes not going to fit enough tire for a good launch.


to take full advantage out of the hole, put the best tires your friends can get together, pull the front swaybar off, clean out the trunk..
if your friend doesnt have a fan switch, pull off the AC connector thats on the front of the compressor (orange i think) and turn the AC on.. that should keep the car on the thermostat until hes ready to race.

lower the PSI of the tires some.. how much depends on the tires and air temp.

 

oh, and my money is on the firstgen.

id expect mid 13s from it.... and 14s from the 3rdgen.

 

Sorry bro, have to go with the majority on this one. I give the win to the '68.

 

68 hands down. Those things are screamers and will walk any stock L98 HARD.

 

If you think PoPs talks a lot of s*** now, you better not let him see this thred.

 

I guess since all of you guys think that the 1st gen is going to win then it probably will, but I have a book on camaros that covers every year camaros performence numbers from 67-present. It doesnt mention many quarter times, it really just mentions horsepower and gears etc. But in the pages that it talks about the DZ 302 it claims that it was barley enough to take the mustang Gt that year that was running high 14's. Now granted it will probably take a stock L98, especially since it is somewhat modded, but damn yall make it sound like its the fastest thing in the world.

 

The L98 should be able to take this car until about 40-50 pretty easily. 302 Z28's made about 400HP when they had all the available factory upgrades. (headers, crossram, cowl induction, chambered exhaust) This car should be putting out less and will make all it's power from about 4000-7000, with barely any TQ at all before that. You'll wanna race this car from a stop only because the 302 is a high RPM, high revving engine and it is no joke when used properly. Since this car is a convertible, (which means weight) doesn't have the Z28 suspension, and factoring in that they have trouble hooking, I think it'll possibly be a very close race on the street. Even if that car runs mid 13's and the L98 runs low 14's, on the street, it could be really interesting.

 

I agree. You guys gonna race to a 1/4 or what? I'm still leaning towards the DZ, sorry. I want to see the results, though!

Laters,
Scott

 

I would have to agree. My brother has a '69 and my mom has a '68 RS, so I kinda got raised on a basis of first gens, my dad had a rs/ss 68 also when he got back from Nam, not to mention the 67 GTO. 59 Vette, but now hes got his '66 Vette . I did my senior term paper on first gen Camaros. The 69 Z's, all with 302 from the the factory of course, were best shifted at 7500 RPM. Talked to another guy I knew who had a '69 Z and he said he always shifted at 6500. Not to mention, if its got the cross ram, that'll help out too. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

 

I think they were rated at 290hp but even that was way low.

If whoever drives the 69 can shift he's gonna win.

 

ya my 2 cents are on the 68. 1st gen maros rock

Nate

 

The race is not happening until summer time because the 68 only comes out in nice weather. Yes It will be on the 1/4 mile track, and pops can sure as hell shift. Lets hope the 3rd gen can get some quick bolt ons before the race. Ill post the outcome in the months to come.

 

The race is not happening until summer time because the 68 only comes out in nice weather. Yes It will be on the 1/4 mile track, and pops can sure as hell shift. Lets hope the 3rd gen can get some quick bolt ons before the race. Ill post the outcome in the months to come.

 

all i can say is dual quads:hail: :hail: :hail: :werd:

 

Dual quads will hurt him here more than it will help him in this race. That engine is REALLY lazy down low. The outcome in a street race is usually determined very early. Sure the 302 makes more HP, but the Z28 WILL pull early (unless the 68 is running slicks). The 1st gen will be playing catch up the entire race. Outcome will probably be decided by how far they go. The 68 is without a doubt the quicker car, but a holeshot can eclipse that. The race will be much closer than most think. The 302s made nice track cars. They were NOT designed for drag racing, and NEVER were street bruisers.

 

The DZ 302 created the Z-28 legend, and for good reason. If he is aggressive and drops the clutch, he has such a power advantage that he will blow by your 3rd gen like you were parked.

DZ 302 having a hard time with a '68 Mustang GT? Not on this planet! I saw an original 302 Z destroy a BIG BLOCK '69 Cougar 427. Both cars had headers. I disagree with the other posts, peaky cars have a tracton advantage, they save the HP until the car is hooked up, and then they SCREAM past you. Very demoralizing.

Sorry, it's irritating that he talks smack, but maybe he does because you guys need to show more respect for the old school. Ever consider how it feels to "Pops" with all you guys struttin' around like your stuff is bad @55? Kinda like us and a lot of the import crowd. In this case, I am sure you are gonna get hammmered, bolt ons or not.

Reality keeps getting in the way of my fun!
Troy
So Cal

 

ON THE RACE TRACK! Not the street.

And while I'm not old enough to have been around when the 302s were new, I do have older relatives and friends that were - some still owning the same cars they were driving back then. The guys that ran around in the 302 Z28s were regularly beaten by the real street performers of the day.

Several years ago I attended a few Nostalgia Street and Pure Stock Street races up at Cecil Dragway. No one dared run a 302 car, as they wouldn't be competitive. The dominating force was by far the LS6 cars, with the 426 Hemis not too far behind.

 

depending on launch RPM, transmission and suspension. I'd give it to the 68. Of course, nitrous and a vortech 'charger could help.

 

of course a 454 and a elephant will beat a 302 you would expect it too. but he said there running at the track and not on the street. dual quads will make it faster because his runners are short. street or not daddys gonna win

 

o yea and dz was only in 69 67 68 302s were a diff code

 

The motor is from a 1969 Z-28 It is a 302 ci. I'm not sure what you mean?

 

67 68 302s were not given the dz code i think it was lm but yes for 69 the code was dz. just a little fact. but your still gonna lose. just give your dad props and bow down that *** of yours cuz it will get stomped. dont forget he probably has more money than you. that fact right there makes his car faster than urs if he puts the effort into it.

 

Yeh i was taken for a ride in the 1'st gen today it was near 80 in jersey. The thing keeps pulling after 7,500 rpm's its ridiculous. Reminds me of an import that sounds much much better. I didn't think that a V-8 could rev so high. That matchup with the 4.10 gears is deadly. I should give him more respect. Chirped all 4 gears throwing my head back against the seat. Maybee my friends 95 T/A can take him?

 

set it up as a money grudge. that way you can make money. id still bet on ur dad. i thought my dad knew alot about cars. but when we started building my elco i was way wrong. he doesnt know alot about cars he know every freaking thing about chevys fords and mopars. he tore my engine to bare block in 2 hrs. and put it back together in front of me and told me to tear apart while he went to go get some drinks at costco. comes back with a 6 pack and i only have the carb and intake off. he takes a can drinks some gives me a can and we take it apart again. so yea anyway my rambling just points out. your dad deserves respect. cuz maybe he was downplaying his camaro just to tease you or something.
i dont know im just rambling

 

68 owns!

Get this on video man, 1st gens are badasssss!

 

no doubt about it man,the 1st gen will destroy the 3rd gen like a puny honda,tape the race please!:rockon:

 

Stock for stock, the 3rd gen would win easily as 1st gen Z28's were high 14 second cars. It was "rated" 290/290.

Start modding both and the 1st gen would respond better to breathing mods as its a high revver. They came with better gearing, 3.73 was stock. I'm not up on the 67-68 Z28 as much as the 69.

But back in the day, Pops rode around with someone who had a 69 Z, cross ram and 4.88 gears. It screamed, as in engine sounds, but was still a dog on the street. Didn't start pulling until 5500.

I think the 3rd gen would win from a stop. From a roll, the 1st gen has it.

 

our cars stock werent in the 14 sec range more like 15 sec
1st gen has my money

 

L98 cars with 3.23 or better gears are easy mid to low 14 second cars.

 

doesnt matter cuz these cars arnt stock

 

 

Uh yeah he says the 1991 Z28 is stock

 

no he says its pretty much bone stock. read buddy read. it helps
j.k

 

A 350 TPI stock runs 14's

 

So pretty much bone stock means that its modified? Sounds to me like hes saying nothing is done to it. either way the 69 will win I was just making the point that there are plenty of guys on this board running low 14's with stock L98's.

 

i think they have free mods. or at least air cleaner or ported tpi or what not. but it doesnt matter the 1st gen will win. unless he stalls it

 

302 out a z28 why? shure its a mean little motor but why not a 454 ls6 out of a 70 chvelle ... my pop has a 69 z28 with a 454 and a 200 shout of nitrous with a 450hp from the factory nothing to play with and thoes 4.10 gears will snap your neck lol off topic but im gonig with the 68 a)its lighter b)1st gens rule

 

The 68 camaro was purchased for $500 with no motor, and a guy had a 69 302 for sale down the street. I guess he just wanted to get a motor quick or something. Hey I'm not complaining the thing will beat 350 1st gens no problem.

 

come on over to cali ill line up some races for you

 

1967-68 Z/28 - MO
1969 Z/28 - DZ

The old 302's were the stuff of legend, but no, they will not be able to outrun a 454 or a 426 Hemi in a straight line.

Thats why when people talk about muscle cars, its about the 454, the Boss 429, the 440-6... not the 289, 302, 327, ect etc.

But thats not really the point of this thread. A '69 DZ 302 will murder anything that was ever put into a 3rdgen by GM. They were rated at 290hp/290ft-lbs from the factory, but they were under-rated unusually low. Its not uncommon for a stock 302 to be dyno'd well over 350hp. The very rare few that had the Cross Ram with the two 600cfm Holley DPs have been dyno'd past 390hp too.

The only deficiency of the 302 is a lack of low end grunt. It just cannot get off the line quickly (from a stand-still) without either slicks or alot of wheelspin, even with the 3.73 gears that all '69 Z/28 Camaros came with. But the 4.11 gears are gonna be a HUGE advantage for him, because he will not have that much of a problem.

So you may have him outta the hole, but once he gets that 302 into its powerband, GET OUTTA THE WAY!!

 

BTW - This is the dual quad (the Cross Ram) that the Z/28 could have installed at any GM dealer, although very few actually got it. Regularly over $10,000 on ebay for one of these, minus the carbs.

 

I got one of the edelbrock crossrams for a bigblock off ebay for $100, neat little pieces

 

expensive little pieces arent they. summit sells them now.

 

i say the 1st gen by a long margen. 4+ cars!

on a different note small blocks such as the 302 and 327 can rev VERY high if built. one of my family friends that i've known since i was a lil tot had a 327 66 all steel duece II running 9'ss shifting at 12k. his name is Bob Bailey. a true small block head genious