I was wondering why people in this town say that their pretty much stock 4 bangers and a few 01 and 02 grand prix's (not GTP) can beat my Z28. I dont think racing on the streets is ever a good thing but iam considering it because i hate when people talk trash.


My Car = 92 Camaro Z28 305 to 350 swap, msd ignition, bbk throttle, custom prom, K&N, 3:27 posi rear, 5 speed tranny with center force clutch

 

Because they watch too much tv and go to the movies to see 2f2f...

 

Because they are totally car ignorant. Only stock 4 banger that could even come close to holding you is probably an AWD DSM, preferably 1st Gen. Hondas and such are very slow stock, but the B18 and H22's are a very popular motor swap to do and easy to mod. I know a guy in town that has a H22 swap and has Nitrous, slicks and cams and a few other mods and his best pass off the juice is a 8.22 and on the juice he hits a 7.78 All in the 1/8th mi BTW...But hes udmped over 10k in that car. To me, Id ratherm od my Mustang or Camaro and spend alot less to go just as faster or faster....The things I can do with10k in either of my cars would be very amazing

 

Forgot to mention the some of the fastest cars around here or atleast the owners like to say are: 2 neons, a honda Prelude, Integra,a Regal that supposedly has 2 turbos and a hatch back civic whos owner says a paint job like the one in Grand Turismo is a mod (and the guy is married) and some old guys around got some 60's muscle but never drive them.

None are truly modded but they say the cold air intakes they got really makes a difference


Forgot to add my car also has underdrive pulleys and a bunch of Hotchkis suspension stuff my uncle put in.

 

you should be able to kill just about any R!CER on the streets that isnt pushin a ton of boost. Your car should easily run low 14's if you can drive. The only cars in your league are S2000,350Z,and Srt4 neons and those cars arent very common.

 

I agree with IROCaholic, but I think a 350z would edge you out. They're pretty quick little cars.

 

Because if you still had the 305 they might not be that much slower. Thirdgens are not notorious for being fast, minus the LB9s and L98s, and those are rare to see (around me for the most part)...

They bother for the same reason we all do, they want to take something and make it better. And in todays world its not just a V8 than can be made into a 12 second daily driver with ease, its all kinds of cars...

I could say why bother with a thirdgen, I mean you had to go and swap another motor in, and spend all that time and such, and who knows, it might run 13s or slower! I could say why not just buy a Mustang, bolt on some suspension, port the stock heads and some bolt ons and run 12s all day long???

Now dont jump on me, I am just showing you what its like from the other side. You see how something to you is different to someone else!

 

id be more worried about the old guys

 

Invite them to the track this summer or at least go yourself and show 'em the time slip.

Talkin' won't change their beliefs. they'll have to be shown.

 

Or the pickup trucks that pull up to you at the light....

 

It depends what "4-bangers" you are talking about. I can think of a few that shouldn't have a problem with you.

 

what happened to all your posts??


but most 4 bangers would get walked hard by him...

 

Agreed....I've picked up on an H22 powered Lude (My girlfriends car), that thing is responding amazingly well to mods. I'd run that car against jsut about any non L98 car out there and hold my own. I ahvn't even started to tune it yet either, still ahve to install cam gears and VAFC (which pwns PROM tuning BTW). I'll never leave my 3rdgen for my performance car, but I muct say, it sure is fun driving that Prelude

 

But if you read what i posted my car is a L98 (originaly 305) and i mention what kind of cars are around here. Nobody has any of those exotic cars around here. I think the only worry i got is my little brothers 76 T/A.

 

I wouldnt worry about them to much most of them just talk trash and think a wing makes them cool. usually the fast 4 bangers are primered stripped down and the people that own them usually dont talk **** becuase they dont have to. Besides they have to spend a lot more money to go faster. you can pick up a thirdgen in decent shape for 1800 throw 3g's in it and run 11's easy. i run 14.5 where im at but im high above sea level at sea level id run about 13.7 or so with stealthram headers and a modified exhuast. i have about 260hp at the tires and about 310 at the fly wheel and my gears sucked when i ran that time 2.77's now 3.27's posi 9bolt. My car has never been tuned at all since ive owned it i need to but it runs really good so im not worried about it when i actually have some time ill tune it up at probably gain at least a few tenths.

 

Your right, you can do that with a thirdgen, but in this day and age there are lots of fast 4 cyls out there. And the thing with them is, you dont know they are fast. Pretty much any fast thirdgen has a cutout, and a wicked cam, you know right away its got something. The fast imports, they arent necessarily loud, and usually dont have cams and such to give it away. Plus you expect a thirdgen muscle car to be fast, not the same for a 4 door civic! Could make a lot of money with a fast Civic that you couldnt with a fast thirdgen!

 

I agree with some of what all of you are saying. Thirdgens are sweet cars in my opinion but w/ todays technology, you can make anything fast. One of my friends has a Civic Del Sol, which i think is gay....but he's got like $3500 in it and runs mid 12's. I am starting to rethink why I built my car like I have.....its getting out of control right now. I wish I had left my car stock and bought an LS1 bird, w/ bolt -ons they make 11 second cars pretty easy. I don't like Civics but I give them respect if someons has taken the time to mod it for real.(More than a fart can, and intake) Plus they can be made very fast, I guess I could care less what someone else is driving.....we don't need to like their cars, and they don't need to like ours. Sure I have been known to give imports a thumbs down sign when the pull up or label Civic drivers homo's and poser's, but thats cuz more and more I get intimidated when a built one pulls aside me. Although I haven't been beat by one, their are many out there that could blow my doors off, I just know when to pick a race and when not to. Its just getting harder to tell which ones not to mess with around here, cuz everything is getting faster.......except most thirdgens!!!

 

I really enjoy all of the respect people give to thirdgens. Everyone treats them as if they are the bastard cars of GM. They aren't fast stock(stock heads, cam, etc.), or otherwise. Everyone always talks about how they can't be made fast reasonably and that you should just buy an LS1 car a Mustang. I'm not a fan of 305's in the least, but, I have seen several run 13's with minor things done. The only reason they get such a bad rap, is most of the time, the wrong people own them, and don't know what the hell they are doing. So many things go undone with thirdgens that they look worse than they are. Most people don't do all the things that ANY car needs done to run quick, stock motor or not.

"Pretty much any fast thirdgen has a cutout, and a wicked cam, you know right away it's got something."-25thmustang

Says who?? You don't have to sound like a circle track racer to be fast. I have OWNED many a ***** AND mustang owner due to the fact they just LOOKED at my car and said, "Oh, it's THAT body style...sure I'll race ya." In the end, the best reply to the ORIGINAL post was by TBI92Camaro:

"Because they are totally car ignorant." Period. Two kinds of car owners talk smack, ones that KNOW they are fast, and the ones that are ignorant about cars. More the latter than the former. Sorry for the rant guys, just hate it when people talk smack bout our cars.

 

To me the car itself isnt what makes me like or dislike it in most cases. Its the owner of the car. Depending on the way the owner acts I may like a budget modded honda civic thats driven by a humble college student who just does the minor mods that he can. Over the fastest thirdgen in the world owned by a guy who thinks his $hit dont stink and every other car but his sucks. Its all the drivers attitude to me really. It just so happens that most R!cers have the kind of attitude that I dont like, but then again there are guys out there like STU(I cant believe i just said that ) who take what they have and make it fast on a budget and dont try to blind you with neons or a huge wing. No matter what car you drive I give respect where respect is due. If you have a fast car, its done tastefully, and you didnt spend a million dollars to get it that way chances are we will be cool.

 

From what I've seen the guys who talk smack the most are the least of your worries. It's the quiet ones I'd worry about!

A few months ago at California Speedway some goofball in a black Honda just wouldn't shut up about being able to walk a friends SRT-4. My friend's simple "fine, let's make the first run together" wasn't good enough. This jerk went on for a couple hours......then ran a 14.8 to my friend's 13.3. That finally shut him up.....and I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was staged right behind them so I got a front row seat for their pass. Then I ran a 14.55 in my PT Cruiser - faster than the trash talking Honda.

Loser!

 

Its a sad day when a PT cruiser runs faster than anything. The fact of the matter is that there are cocky import drivers everyway I go, even if there car is fast or not. I've seen my fair share of both, super cocky kids running 11 and 17 second cars.....I can just never tell anymore who is fast and who isn't. I wouls never live it down if I get beat by one of those cocky bastards. I get frustrated, and yet I don't know what I would do If there weren't ricers around anymore.....they are so much fun!! Plus they give the people w/ mildly modded thirdgens somebody to beat.

 

Hey!! Great fun killing Mustangs with it though!

As a side note: We're standing trackside one night talking about that "mad bees" sound so many imports make with those coffee can exhausts when the classic sound comes buzzin' down the track. We look up to see just about the ugliest little tan/bondo/primer tri-colored Honda........run a 13.1 If you saw this car on the street you'd laugh so hard you'd cry. Until it moved. But would you give up a clean, even slow, thirdgen for it? No. I don't care what anybody says, style counts!

 

i like to mess with the hondas by writing Folgers on there coffee can mufflers

 

Haha!! Nice!

 

You sound like a real ********. I like to mess with *******'s cars by putting sugar in their gas tanks, it's so funny.

 

"Its a sad day when a PT cruiser runs faster than anything."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike-in-Orange
[B]Hey!! Great fun killing Mustangs with it though!

It's a pathetic day if a PT "KILLS" a mustang, I guess there are some exceptions though, 4cyl, and some dogish v6er's...but come on...14.5 is nice for a PT but not respectable for any "Muscle" or "Sports" car.....geez

 

I happen to agree!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nidyanazo
[B]"Its a sad day when a PT cruiser runs faster than anything."

I never said my PT was comparable to a true muscle car....I'm not crazy! It's just fun when a 5.0L Mustang lines up next to me at the track and he finishes second. C'mon, you gotta admit it's funny watching a Mustang go down to a PT. Besides, our Camaro is a stock 3.1L......there isn't much it can beat!

 

Id love to see a cocky Mustang owner get beat by a PT Cruiser!

 

Wow this got out of subject a bit

 

I am three weeks away from shutting them up.........damn snow

 

I got something to worry about now..........my dads cutlass
i will post those results soon

 

Hey guys
I own an 89 celica gts and
I recently purchased an 86 Irocz28 350 small block 4bbl holley!
I like both cars I think my Iroc looks like a race car,
and is a nice cruiser,
but its not a nimble car 3400lbs or better stock!
This is car rides like a tank in my opinion.
Im use to a 2500 pound car.

My neighbor commented on the Iroc When I asked
why did they make this car so heavy for a sports car ?
He said its not a Sports car just looks like one.

Hes an old timer.

Truth is not one mustang or camaro would
ever challenge my 89 GTS on the Jackie Robinson Pkwy to many
twisties.

 

Have you ever seen an open class race on a circuit track with "twisties and straight away's"?? More often than not your GTS', Honda Civics / Preludes, Integras, VW's are left to fight for the back of the pack.

 

Mosport International Speedway (Peterborough Ontario Canada Oct/04).

 

that pic you attached is a wide open track with long
curves thats not what im saying.

parkway im talking about is nothing like that

 

Sure, I hear ya. I'm just referring to the big picture.

 

thats a nice picture looks like a grand turismo track

 

I dont know, but my 89 L98 IROC handles a hell of a lot better than most imports i have ever driven. stock to stock

 

well one thing his suspension could be weak. could need new shocks, and struts. My 89 handles excellent but, it doesnt handle like a true sports car becuase its not but, it handles a lot better than the imports unless its a true sports car. my buddies miata could out handle me but i bet i could be him on a road course from the fact that the little sports cars are powerless unless you get a real expensive one.
His suspension might not be as strong as strong as a 87 and up becuase 86's never had the 350 and that adds weight i dont know about the power he has unless its built he probably has less than the 305tpi according what year 350.
My 85 ws6 T/A will handle with a lot of the sports cars until you get up to like corvette and porsche. I can take any back road here in VA moutain back roads screw the parkway narrow hair pin turns and crap like that every faster than my buddy can in his miata. I know his miate would out handle horse's gts

 

No they don't. If anything they weigh less than the 305 because there is less mass in the block.

 

what the crap man that means bigger bore bigger pistons. bigger valves. bigger space makes for bigger stuff to put inside=more weight plus he probably doesnt have anything aluminum. next i bet you will tell me a 400 small block weighs more than a 400 big block.

 

The weight difference in pistons doesn't compair to the weight of the iron in the block. Bigger bore means less iron in the block. All small blocks have the same basic external geometry you know. Valve size is almost negligable since the difference in weight can be measured in grams. You have slightly bigger cast aluminum pistons and thats it. Everything else is basically the same.

 

Chevy L98 5.7 V8 600lb's
Ford 5.0 V8 411lb's
Pontiac 301 V8 452lb's
Chevy small block V8 575lb's

i couldnt find the 305 but theirs some engine weights the ford i dont know if it would weigh close the chevy or not but the pontiac 301 should and the small block chevy didnt specify.

 

ok do it this way take a 350 iroc compare it to a 305 i bet it weighs more. but besides that unless someone took a tpi 350 and turned into a carbed car hes probably got a old engine which would weigh more.


Camaro Coupe 3025
Z/28 Coupe 3194

1987 IROC-Z 305 Auto O/D N/A lbs 3250 lbs
1987 IROC-Z 350 Auto O/D N/A lbs 3341 lbs


there

 

You have to take two identical engines and place them side by side on scales both having the same basic parts. There were hundreds and hundreds of various combos of each so you can't quantify a 20lb or so difference. If one has a carb and the other has a bulky TPI than that isn't a fair comparison. Which ever motor has the TPI will be the heavier of the two. If you took the lifetime weight average of the Gen I 350 and compaired it to any other lifetime wieght average of [insert any small block here] they will be neck and neck.

As an example

An LO3 will weigh the same or more than an LO5 (305 TBI VS 350 TBI)
An LB9 will weigh the same or more than an L98 (305 TPI VS 350 TPI).


Those examples both share the same exact parts for induction and bottom end (minus pistons). The 305 has more mass in the heads and the block due to the smaller bores and smaller combustion chambers. Gen II, III, and IV motors are no different. They all share a certain external volume and geomtery with the displacement differences being internal.

 

the N/A is the shipping weight the weight listed is the curb weight

 

You can't go by total vehicle weights. Z28's had more options, larger wheels, heavier tires, heavier induction set-up, etc etc. All of those add up to a heavier car that is not associated with the motor (except the induction). Even if you took off the TPI and put the same TBI induction system on, the Z would still be heavier because of the other factors. You can't use that as an argument.

 

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here. If you take two identical bars of soap and carve a hole in each one, the soap with the bigger hole will have the bigger displacement and weigh less; it's pretty straight forward.

 

Exactly.