from what i've read about the tbichips.com guy, don't waste your money.

Stu, a 305 will always make more power than a lower displacement 4-banger. There is NO replacement for displacement. I happened to bump into a friend of mine today, and questioned him on his 305 powered vehicle specifically for this thread. His 79 Camaro is running 11.87@114 at it's best, and he can drive it daily if he wanted to. He said it has ****ty gas mileage though lol

It's not my car, so I can't claim his times as my own, but it's completely conceivable.

 

Those aren't high performance RPMs!!!

 

i dont see why not? lol 5500rpms is plenty to make good power to run fast. my 383 idea should be shiftin at 6000rpms and make near 400rwhp.

 

You know what else there is no replacement for? Weight savings. It's just occured to me that they are about in the same area. Show me a street driven Thirdgen that weighs 2,000lbs with driver and I'll show you an N/A four banger that makes 400 whp.

Don't think I'm knocking this time fellas, cause I'm not.

 

I'm just playin around.

 

6,000 RPM is enough for a performance SBC...
----------
I can show you stripped cars weighing 2700 with driver with larger engines going faster than N/A 4-bangers..

 

Tell that to the thousands of circle track cars running SBC's though...

 

circle track cars are a completely different animal than street rods. If you're talking circle track racing, a more appropriate powerband is 5000-8000 rpm.

 

I know, they spin higher then that though often times.

I'm just messing with you because you made such a general statement, "performance SB"

 

i didn't realize you were talking circle track when we're on a forum where 99.7% are either street cars or drag race cars lol

 

99.7%!!!!! There's too many posts here with 13, 14, and 15 second cars to be called 99.7% street or drag!

 

hey now.. 13-15 second cars make good street cars... nice for daily driving and have some power.. at least the 13 second cars to 14 second cars.. 15's is slow...

now a nice street/strip car is a 11-12 second ride.. the better of that group is the 9-10 second drivers. mainly your nitrous'd or boosted cars.

whats funny is that i know their are plenty of 10 second n/a 4 cyl cars.. but i'm not sure of the wieght of those cars.. i would have guessed near 2000lbs total. but even then it would need alot of power to get into the 10's.. although i havent seen it done, i bet there is some 350-400whp 4's that are n/a. now a thirdgen will never wiegh 2000lbs.. but we can still get them into the 2700lb-2800 lb range and have a twin turbo aluminum small block or LSx motor and make 1200rwhp and run high 7's or 8's all day long. and probly beable to drive it on the street

but this isnt the place for that arguement

 

You guys are getting off track. Third Gen, 305, Naturally Aspirated, all I've seen is no greater potential than an N/A Civic.


Now, about 15 second cars not being drag cars. This is obviously a statement from someone who has never drag raced competively before. There are many things required to be a drag car, and many things required to win races. A low ET is none of them. I've bested 10 second cars (it was a C4 Vette) with my 17 second Acura before.

 

You're talking bracket racing. **** that. Any 10 sec racecar > any 17 sec racecar

Sure you can win races with your 20 sec ride, but you still got a slow car.

 

I said street cars or drag cars. Most everyone's ride here is a street car - i.e. they drive it on the street. Alot of people drag race their cars as well.

If you build a 2.0L 4-banger, and a 5.0L 305 to their maximum potential and dynoed them, the 305 will win EVERY time, hands down. No replacement for displacement and the 305 will ALWAYS make more power.

When it comes down to racing and weight, it matters what platform you put the car in. You can strip an S10 with a built 305 down to 2000 pounds and weigh down the rear tires and it'll haul *** past your N/A 4-banger. Put the 4-banger motor in a thirdgen and run it against a built 305, and once again the 305 will spank it.

 

Too bad there are ZERO competitions based on power output then huh?

 

He may be a nice guy and a good guy to work with but he cannot tun eyour car through the mail. Those that say he can have never done their own chip work. He will basically do what your hypercrap chip is doing. Adding fuel and spark where it is not needed and or just at the wrong spots.

 

So why the hell didn't you just say that CAMAROS with built N/A 305 are about on the same level as little light cars with built N/A 4 bangers instead of trying to put down the 305?

You basically said that a built 305 MOTOR = built 4 cylinder MOTOR. How else can you compare two engines besides on power output huh? You didn't say anything about the car or weight.

 

stu, you must not headsup race very much, becuase that's what headsup racing is all about, power, and the ability to get it to the ground.

 

You know what they say, "Horsepower wins trophies, but TORQUE wins races."

 

I said exactly that, about three different times. What the hell did you think I was talking about? Power doesn't mean **** if you weigh so much that your times stay the same.

mw66nova: Still missing the point. Built N/A 305 Camaro vs. a built N/A Civic are still in the same "class" (if you will) in a heads up race.

And no I don't do much heads up racing. I know for a fact that the only 'heads up' racing that 99% of the people on here do is street racing. All things considered, for the fifth time now, 305 is on par with 4 cylinder in a Third Gen. I'm not sure why everyone is arguing so hard.

 

I still don't agree with that. There are many 12 second N/A 305s. I saw a couple last time I went to sears point in fact - BOTH thirdgens. I've never.. ever.. seen a 12 second N/A 4-banger at a local track. Ever. I've seen plenty of 12 second 4 cylinders, but all boosted. A 12 second 305 will also be alot cheaper, and probably more streetable than the 4 cylinder.

 

Yeah pretty much all N/A 4 cylinder cars are gutted and less streetable than "pig" thirdgens.

Unless that 4 cylinder is in-between a persons legs, I don't see where this debate is going.

 

actually if you count dyno day kinda competitions, i know there are some out there somewhere. highest hp wins i guess

n/a 4's in top classes are in the 10's so its possible to go 12's in one. i seen quite a few GSR civic hatchs that have all the bolt ons and cams go low low 13's at 103 all day long on slicks ofcourse.. race weight is in the 2000-2200lb range which is pretty easy to get out of a civic hatch. just needs abit more mods and work to get 12's outta them things..

but then again, yeah its not very street friendly as u lost all ur interior and most accessories to save weight, and have no low end power as the cams will make peak in the high 8000+rpm range LOL. sorta like those S2000's, no ***** down low but once u get them up in the rpm range, they move well

 

Exactly my point. Yes there are 12 second 4 cylinder N/A cars out there, I wasn't arguing that at all. My point was, are they something you would want to drive everyday? Probably not, even if I was a honda guy. Are there 12 second 305s that I would drive any day of the week? Hell yeah!

A 10 second 4 cylinder car N/A is about as un street friendly as they come imo, but I'm sure there are 10 sec 305s that people drive. More displacement naturally gives you more hp/torque with better streetability.

And I agree, this arguement is going no where

 

Hey I am in Bryan OH, about 45 miles north. I have wanted to get into burning but havent really seen that it would be worth it on a MAF TPI car, but speed density TPI and TBI is a whole different story. If you want I'll race you with my 86 IROC, It is bone stock....

anyway pm me if you want to meet up. I am in VW fairly often to see a good buddy of mine down there.

 

Well, it's more like "3300 lb auto 305 f-bodies and 2400 lb 5 speed N/A 4 cyls are doing the same times!" If one were to make this a little more fair and build a 305 in a Chevette, it would be more like "305s and 20 psi race gas 4 bangers are doin the same times!"


There are few, even today, I-4 cyl N/A cars that will catch a 5.0 TPI car with the same drivetrain layout, i.e. auto vs. auto, 5 sp vs 5 sp. There are more than a few 5 sp. N/A 4 cyl cars that will run with auto LB9s, but I can't think of many that will run with a 230 hp/300 lb-ft 5 speed LB9 car.

 

I've never understood why people call 3rd gens pigs or heavy. You do realize that 2nd gens weigh about 500 lbs more on average, and 4th gens about 250 more, right? Granted, they aren't light compared to some cars, but they're the closest to a first gen in terms of lightness.

 

I think he was just refering to the stigma, but doesn't actually believe that himself. By the way, you'll NEVER see a fast auto import. N/A or otherwise. Economy cars come with economy automatic transmissions.

 

lol

My brother's Accord has got to have like 4.10s or something ridiculous for gears (it turns like 3300 rpms at 60), and it moves pretty decently for an auto 4 cyl. It would take care of the 6 cyl 3rd gens (except the TTA, lol), I'd say. Not exactly spectacular off the line though, lol.

 

I know that MANY cars come with 4.10's from the factory (my Integra did) but I'd imagine that 4-speed autos would be geared way longer than that.

 

I dunno. Every Honda I've ever rode in (with the exception of Pilots/Odesseys) is geared pretty freakin short. Which isn't really a bad thing. With small displacement, you can afford to do that and still get good MPG.

 

Video - A 406 in a 240

 

HA! I bet that thing will never hookup. Sounds like my nova shoot I have trouble getting that thing to hookup.

I have a friend that has a 12 sec N/A neon 250 to 280hp at the wheels. He ran it for about a month or 2 until it broke a piston. He was running 12.1 compression on 93 pump gas. I told him I didn't think that was very streetable. So now he's running a new engine with a turbo. An he paid out his *** for both setups.

 

My buddy has a 240 and he just bought wheels for it that are ten inches wide, and a wide body kit to make them fit. I bet you could get a decent slick on that car.