ok so im at work with my bud and he shows me this forum for 3000 gt's and dodge stealths. and i just couldnt resist putting this on here. this just goes to show there are some REALLY stupid people out there. heres the link
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=411693

 

Didn't get anything but a log in screen... ???

check link please...

Rafael

 

yeah 3si requires membership to post or read the forum

 

sorry about that guys i should have checked the link lol. well here it is i just hade to copy and paste. now keep in mind this is a stock dual overhead cam stealth:

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Pulled up to a red light and noticed a transam pulled next to me. Im gonna say it was around year 2001 for the Transam. Anyways, he looked at me and says what i have under the hood. I said complete 100% stock, nothing at all. Then he laughs at me and starts revving his engine. I asked him, on green, we go? He of course laughed again and said w/e. So he rev's while i stay quite. Green hits, and we both go. litteraly 2 seconds later after green hit, im 1 car ahead of him "EVEN THOUGH I SPUNNED MY TIRES LIKE HELL". 2nd gear at 55mph im up hill stuck at traffic and i can say, he is about 4 car lengths back. Sense im stuck and traffic, he comes up side of me and says, Horseshit, you have something under there. I said w/e, pull over and ill showyou, he didnt and kept driving away.

I dont know what was underhis hood except hes got an Automatic.

I have a DOHC ES Manual.

Love to put a cocky bastard back to his place.

 

My neighbor has a red 3000gt. He thinks hes bad.

 

I went to lunch today, like usual, in my good buddies 1994 3000 GT VR4 - stock turbos, just a boost controller, fuel management, and an exhaust. This car will knock down low 13's in its current trim, 450cc injectors have just been ordered to take advantage of more boost, 10psi has the stockers going static. Then its up to 15psi and mid 12's. This is an AWD car, and it will spin through about 30mph on the street in the summer. In this winter cold, it'll break the tires loose from a 20mph in second - I have personally verified that behind the wheel.

A real twin turbo 3000GT doesn't take much to make into a real monster - although I doubt the above mentioned ES model was anthing special. You can't beat the AWD launch, especially with only street traction.

 

There are many stupid people on this forum, and everywhere else in the world too.

 

well the dual overhead cam motors will only push in the mid to high 100's horsepower wise. they arent over 200 horse to the front wheels i know that.
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well i know but to say that his car beat a 98 trans am is really bad. you should see the comments his own buddies on the forum said. its funny.

 

I was looking at the replys to that thread and even all the 3000GT / Stealth guys are saying hes a lier or the trans am was V6 or F'ed up.... At least they are honest.... if it was a true ***** forum they all would have been like "nice kill those are easy to take out with my 1.8L Quadruple Turbocharged I4."

 

LMAO. its sad but true man. people just like to talk trash. and when you prove them wrong they just make up some lame excuse. i have a eclips that i see every weekend and the first time i raced him he said he didnt shift gears, so i raced him again and wiped him all over the ground. so i see him a couple weekends later and come to find out he has NOS. but still whiped him on the ground. he was like the guy with the stealth. he claimed he was all stock with no NOS but he kept purging the system thinking i couldnt hear it. the bad thing is i killed him even with my car about to over heat.

 

I can vouch for the fact that the 5-spd 3000GT FWD cars are real fast. I used to love driving my buddies car just for that reason. Even that N/A FWD V6 would absolutely wipe my car away. It cruised at 120mph no problem. Gotta love the posi-trac on the FWD too, it would spin 1st and 2nd dry, and always leave 2 solid equal marks. All stock motor too, just modded suspension.


Now, as far as beating a Trans Am, that is hard to believe. A LT1 auto car would probably walk my buddies 3000GT. Anything stick, or LS1, and it would be over.

I think that the best chance, is that he raced a V6 4th gen, which he could easily beat. Then he went online and called it a T/A because it sounds cooler than firebird.

 

I used to have a 94 Stealth R/T (exact same car, different body panels), and while I agree that smoking an LS1 F-body is not really a possibility unless it is the twin turbo model, they are not really as big of a joke as some of you may think. Whoever said that the DOHC 3.0 in them only makes 100 or so horsepower, is completely wrong. That motor is rated at around 220, and my old Stealth would completely rape the Camaro RS that I have now. I had that car over 100 mph on numerous occasions in 3rd gear. However, some (but not all) of the ES models have a SOHC version that I do not know too much about, but I think that they are pretty much the same engine that were used in the Dodge Avenger, and are not nearly as powerful.
While I traded the Stealth for my RS because I am not really an import or FWD tuner type of guy, I still think that they are pretty sharp cars.

 

I have raced 2 of these cars and I have destroyed them. I know they weren't the turboed versions but damn it was bad. I have seen a twin turbo awd one and yeah that little bastard was pretty impressive.

 

the dual overhead cam motors were only pushing 160 horse to the front wheels. and the SOHC were pushing 150 to the front wheels.

 

Umm no...

From 1994 numbers;

SOHC 164/185
DOHC 222/201
TT 300-320/307-315

 

DOHC car is still pretty slow - they are pretty heavy, to the tune of 3800+ lbs. I'd be surpised if my 305 is making any more than 220hp at the crank, but I obliterated a DOHC FWD 3000 GT several times of the course of last summer, something about a 800lbs weight advantage, not to mention torque.

 

UM NO!!!!!! those are flywheel numbers buddy not front wheel horse numbers. the DOHC is proved overrated and the SOHC in proven underrated. ther is evidence to support this. most DOHC depending on the codition, dyno between 160 and 180 depending on the condition of the car. most SOHC dyno from 140 to 150. the TT put 240 all wheel horse. and if you want proof i would make an account on 3si.org and search the forum. the proof is there.

 

the weight specs of the SOHC and the DOHC as as is:

SOHC - 3085
DOHC - 3400

 

Alright I'm a stealthTT owner, I posted on this thread because that kids a fool as most of the board told him he was, haha anyways I came over here becuase my friend and I work on our cars together his is a LS1 Firebird, Mines a stealth TT, I have basic mods, Electronic boost controller @ 14 psi, exhaust, and intake he has a lid, intake, header back exhaust and thats about it, in other word we both god the basic bolt-ons done, and we race alot, expecially after working on our cars, and so far i'm yet to lose, but i sure as **** never walk him like this n/a kid says, from a dig i eat him off the line of course, but he pulls in the low gears on me pretty good ends up being 1/2-3/4 length race in the end, a roll we usually do from 50 or 70 depending depending where we are, but those happen to be pretty nice sweet spots for my car but theres no real pulling its pretty much dead even all the way to 150 i usually pull maybe a fender, more like a headlamp, in all reality if were talking "street" cars both can back and forth all day, max potential definatly goes to the v8 of course theres no replacement for displacement, but dont doubt a vr4 or TT Next week were dropping a cam in the ls1 and putting ls2 heads on it i'll let you know how bad i get eaten hahaha

For the record also non turbos were a little over rated HP wise, the TT not sure if it was b/c AWD loses a considerable amount to the wheels but i believe stock TT's avg around 240-250 at the wheels (320 crank) so that would be about a 25% drivetrain loss which sounds a bit much to me

 

As far as drivetrain efficiency goes FWD > RWD > AWD. yeah AWD does drain a considerably higher amount of hp thanks to friction.

 

Who talks about power to the wheels when comparing cars, unless your comparing two specific cars? Now if you had said Camaro vs said 3KGT and had a dyno, then by all means... but leave "proven dyno numbers" out of a general convo about two cars.

Afterall a TBI Fbody is probably 120 to the tires?

 

no offence but you'd have to have a TBI F-body in pretty bad shape if it was loosing 50hp throught the drivetrain... most dyno runs i see stock they come out in the 150s to the wheels....

 

we are compairing two cars buddy. the trans am and the 3000gt/dodge stealth. that is how the forum started. look up at the top. an ES 3000gt saying he beat a trans am. so yes i am using the dyno numbers. when it comes down to a race between cars the wheel HP is what matters. not the flywheel HP. ive heard MOST cars average about a 20% drivtrain.

 

i posted awhile back that i raced a twin turbo 3000gt with my old tpi car. All i could tell was that the blow off valves were loud and it had exhaust. My car was stock tpi L98, ported stock heads, big cam (poorly matched), roller rockers, full exhaust, gears and a tune. we went onto the highway and i pretty much chased after him onto the on ramp. By the time we hit about 3/4 of the way of the on ramp i had to slam on my brakes bc i was coming up on his rear bumper too fast. We talked after and he said he saw me fly up on him and he said he was wot. He decided racing me would be a waste of time after that. All and all , they are pretty fast cars though. O and after we talked he said it was pretty stock, exhaust being the biggest mod but thats about it.

 

eh they can get somewhat quick to a point then its limited by the stock TINY turbos. bolt ons/mild boost should crack a 12 but thats about it. I havent seen any fast 3000gt's or stealths around me. Most get to about the high 12's and thats all they can put out with stock turbos.

I raced a stock stealth tt with my L98 with stock TPI and full exhaust..thats its. It was pretty much neck and neck to 95mph. Fun stuff, but those cars arent all THAT quick stock. Ls1's will eat them for lunch

 

A BPU 3000GT will turn a mid-low 12 - thats exahust, injectors, fuel and boost controller on stock turbos. At that point your right, the stock turbos are defintely a restriction. Not bad for about $1500 into the car. Upgrade the turbos and they get mean fast - just go to a 15g turbo's and match the fuel system and they right down into the mid/low 11's.

Stock they will run a mid high 13, I guess a real freak L98 could run in that range with just an exhaust. Stanger things have happend.

 

Agreed, those can make alot of power, and it takes alot to move those heavy cars that fast. 11's is a very quick car and it takes alot to hold that power. if it was that easy i'd suspect i'd see more of those cars running that fast, but i dont...and i am not sure why

most of those cars i see barely get close to 13's stock. Most ppl cant drive them for crap.

FWIW i ran 12.90's with full bolt ons with my L98... My car basically ran 13.89 on street tires the day i raced that stealth tt. once i got slicks and 3.42 gears, went 13.6's with stock TPI

 

Do you have dyno sheets from both cars? Without that how do you compare whp numbers?

 

Think of it this way we don't do to bad with them stock..... put a TT setup on our cars ,i'm pretty sure we'd rape em.

 

3800 isn't that heavy next to 3500 for a ls1 fbody, 11's is for a stealth 13g's (the stock turbos everywhere but america) can pull a high 11 pass with a supra fuel pump and 43# injectors (which come stock off a eagle talon), anyone with 15g turbos running 12s is a horrible driver, most people with these cars can barly afford to maintain them let alone build them up but the ones who want to make power can very easily make power, this summer i should hit 450AWHP with 18 psi on my 15g's, all i have invested is fuel injectors ($350) Pump ($150), Eclipse Intercoolers ($65) Boost controller ($500) Exhaust ($600) and i gotta get my turbo's which will be ~$1200, so your talking ~$3000 and in the low 11's thats not really all that bad,

 

So i have heard (about the maintance thing). yea 3K isnt bad at all...thats probably less then what any of us would spend putting in a nice crate motor or something.

 

again they are not naturally aspirated so still not comparable but yet again 3K ain't bad at all for an 11 sec car....

 

I disagree, IMO whp is what counts when comparing two cars

 

 

eh 300 lbs makes a BIG difference on performance tho. 170 lb passenger is near .15 and 2 mph difference...atleast it was in my case. 300lbs looks to be near .35 seconds and 3-4 mph difference. In a race, that will definately show

and 3000 isnt bad to spend on a car that already has a built motor. Problem is n/a motors are not build as strong as factory turbo motors. So you end up paying more for the car to start with since its built to a higher quality. 3000GT prices are alot higher than comparable year Fbodys even alot higher than LS1 cars. So the money you save on the car can be used for mods advantage other guy in some cases
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whp numbers dont mean crap as all dynos will vary and theres a difference from automatic cars to manuals

i know of auto guys dynoing high 300's whp that will run circles all over 400-425whp manual cars


Then you gotta factor in weight too. 400whp low option LS1 car will rape 450whp Cobra's due to being several hundred lbs lighter on average

comparing similar build setups, then you can look at the numbers at the wheels. Its bench racing tho, alot of variables involved in racing

 

I have to say as a member of the 3S community that I was happy to see how this board did not go into a frenzy over the import v. domestic BS. You all replied with intelligent, informed information and that is how I wish it could always be. I laughed becuase some of you guys know more about our cars then some of the idiots in our platform who think they have a clue. I guess all car platforms have a few bad apples who can make us all look bad.

 

I disagree. I think whp numbers are very important. Especially when comparing 2 cars that weigh within 300 lbs of each other. If you know what it puts to the wheels, and what kind of tires and traction, etc, you can get the best comparison. In this argument I think its totally a moot point as we are comparing in general, not two specific cars with a list of modifications.

 

ONLY when you have the whp numbers for the TWO SPECIFIC cars being compared. Taking numbers you find online for two random other cars and comparing those means nothing when talking specifics... Now if both cars being compared were dynoed at the same dyno, same day, then yes, but taking whp numbers from a car across country with NO clue of the conditions and comparing them with numbers from a different car from somewhere else...

Hell my friends used to do that ALL the time. Tell me what their cars run at the track because someone else ran somewhere in the world. Not really valid unless you did it with the specific car in question...

SEE where I'm going here?

 

Nice to see a couple 3Si guys over here too. I just joined up on 3Si, doing research for helping a buddy tune in his VR4. He just bought 450cc injectors, he has the Apexi boost and fuel controllers already hooked up and functioning, and the wideband just went in last weekend. He's got a data log cable coming with some software, and then its time to dig in.

And yea, there are a few bad apples here and there, but it doesn't have to spoil the whole bunch.

 

Yep, i can agree with this. Conditions of the dyno test, SAE or standard, mustang, dynojet, or chassis dyno etc will all have different values from place to place and car to car

 

fair enough