I need opinions on bolt-on mods that are within a realistic price range to put my LG4 in league with the fox-bodies stangs that are over-running my area. Most of them appear to be stock w/ the exception of the usual hollow-sounding flowmaster or maybe some U/D pullies. Also, are there any free mods for my engine that i've missed? My next mod will probably be hooker super-comp (coated) shorties with cutouts, (when economically feasible). I know it can be done right? They're not as quick as they'd like to think...

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

i see u have the mega shifter but u listed nothing about an actual shift kit, a nice B&M shift improver kit runs about 25$ and is good for about a tenth in the quarter and a nice bark into 2nd gear. Also u have an LG4 which got the worst cam in the world, A cheap replacement would be the L98 cam that came in the third gens f bodies with 350s, on a bone stock L03 motor switching to the L98 cam gave almost half a second off the quarter mile times.

also a good posi unit to go with those gears, i personally would have went 3.73 for gears but its kinda pointless to do a 600$ rear end job for a step up thats not to far away. Posi units can be bought from slp eng for 99$

those are just a few, i can name others if u need me to-----Mike

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
http://www.geocities.com/firebird/myfirebird.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

 

Well thanx for the ideas Mike. The truth is I actually had a B&M shift "improver kit" in my old tranny, and i absolutely hated it. It would break my tires lose shifting into 2nd, especially in the rain, which is not all that desirable..it actually played a big part is me losing reverse which cost me $700 for a new one. Enough about that POS, I'm not into swapping the heads and cam, since i don't think its cost effective on a 305, but I am interested in a POSI unit Is it the GM unit (Auburn?) Thanks again for the ideas

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

Just go pull a 350 truck engine from the junkyard. The old dog will not want to rev past 4500 rpm but then again your 305 doesn't want to do it either. Get an engine from the mid 70's because the trucks did not have to meat emmisions laws until somewhere around 79. Those extra cubes are worth quite a bit, just make sure it has a sound lower end. Do the old compression test wet and dry. It should only take about 1/2 a day and it definately worth it.
Yank the heads from the 350 and compare them to the heads of the 305. Which ever one has the larger valves goes on the engine.
My car used to have this swap in it and it was a definate improvement. This only costs a couple hundred and gives you a much better base to work with as a truck block and crank are way better to rebuild then regular 305s or even 350s out of F-Bodies.

 

well this is an interesting idea, kind of a long way from a bolt-on mod tho. Saying i was to do this, what casting numbers do i look for to identify an earlier 350. Weren't the 87's and up better due to having a 4 bolt main and a one piece rear seal? With Mass emissions laws, can i even legally put an older pre-emissions engine into my car? I know that '86s currently have to pass the sniffer. But saying I was to get one....should i invest in a summit rebuild kit? I suppose i would need a new carb and dist. since mine are c/c. Suddenly this is looking like a lot of $$. How much did your conversion cost you? I would love some more details. Any other suggestions? Should i think about a NOS kit for the LG4, its pretty reliable right now, and i don't feel like risking a piston melt-down..

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

with my LB9 i found all i have to do to beat mustangs is to apply a little pressure to the accelerator

 

Your only option on that P.O.S. engine is to spray the hell out of it till it blows and then drop in a nice new GMPP 350 crate motor. All the bolt ons in the world won't let you keep up with a 5.0L standard trans Stang. With your mods I'd say you're mid to low 17's. Stock Stangs can run mid 14's. You do the math!!!!!!! No amount of aircleaner mods, DynoCrap exhaust, or fans switches are gonna help. Save your money and get yourself a 350 and throw a MiniRam/SuperRam/RamJet induction on it, then you can do bolt ons............. Man the kid got a V8 Camaro with exhaust and now he thinks it's fast.....

[This message has been edited by Like a ROC 89 (edited July 27, 2001).]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Like a ROC 89:
[B]Your only option on that P.O.S. engine is to spray the hell out of it till it blows and then drop in a nice new GMPP 350 crate motor. All the bolt ons in the world won't let you keep up with a 5.0L standard trans Stang. With your mods I'd say you're mid to low 17's. Stock Stangs can run mid 14's. You do the math!!!!!!! No amount of aircleaner mods, DynoCrap exhaust, or fans switches are gonna help. Save your money and get yourself a 350 and throw a MiniRam/SuperRam/RamJet induction on it, then you can do bolt ons............. Man the kid got a V8 Camaro with exhaust and now he thinks it's fast.....

Like a Roc....
thanks for all the useful comments man, glad to know that my motor is a POS. Why the hell would i want to spray it till it blows? WTF would that accomplish? You obviously don't really know a hell of a lot about thirdgen, but apparently have some little ego trip cause you have an IROC. As for "dynocrap exhaust" it outflows a lot of the other aftermarket kits out there. What do you have an flowmaster 80s series and you think your the $hit? And i would need a 350 with a miniram to keep up with a stock stang? Then your LB9 or L98 must get smoked constantly by them huh? I never once said my car was fast, but at least i love it and put money, blood, sweat and tears into it. What are your mods huh? If you don't have anything constructive or helpful to say, then keep your mouth shut troll and go back under your rock



------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

OK............

I'd look for some TPI 305 heads. I think they have bigger ports and valves. Make sure it's '86 or older else your valve covers and intake won't bolt on.

------------------
'89 Red Formula 350- 350 .060 over forged pistons 232* @ .020 cam Performer RPM Holley 750 DP Vortec 1.94 1.50 Accel Coil and dist. Hedman shorty headers Dual Exhaust w/ cutouts 1LE WS6 suspension, wheels, and brakes, 9 Bolt 3.27 Posi Edelbrock LCA's & Track bar subframe connectors 700R4 Harwood snorkel scoop Eclipse Head Unit Delco Bose Speakers 2 12" Pioneer subs w/ 400 watt/chanel amp

 

Hey man that is the truth.........if you cant take the heat then get the hell out the kitchen. Man I am sick and tired of these little boys that think they are the s h i t and can beat ALL the Stangs with just a few bolt-on on their weak a s s motors. There was a reason GM made the TPI, TBI, and Q-Jet, if you wanted speed at the time you got the TPI, if you wanted an economy, gas sipping Camaro, with only the look going for it then you got the one of the others. Man its guys like you who give the real Camaros a bad name. You probably roll your hilbilly a s s around looking for Stangs, ask for a race like a total loser, and then get your a s s handed to you. Man its little boys like you that give Camaros and their drivers all a bad name.

 

Hillbilly huh? thats funny man. I live 10 minutes from BOSTON. I attend Babson College which is one of the countries premier business schools, I work summers at an investment firm. So I guess your theory doesn't hold up does it? In fact, through-out this thread you have just continued to spout off ignorance and shown what a troll you really are. I checked for posts under your name and found this seems to be the only board you post on. Whats wrong, don't have enough technical knowledge to post anywhere else? As for me saying that i can beat ALL stangs? Show me where i said that....In fact my purpose in starting this thread was to find out suggestions on how to improve my cars performance to hang with them. And as for giving camaro owners a bad name....there should be more around like me. Mine is one of the cleanest examples of a thirdgen in my area, and i respect others who own and enjoy these cars, instead of owning an IROC with very mediocre mods (which doesn't go very far to suppport your high-minded opinion of yourself) and trashing other thirdgen owners. Now I'm done with you, because there is no need for this to continue and end up getting locked.

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

Is troll some cool new word the hilbilies in the Boston area use? Exactly as you said, the car you have is made to look good and NOT go fast. Dont race the Stangs, you WILL LOOSE!! You need major engine and drivetrain mods which I believe you dont have skill to perform. I have done engine and trans swaps, many header/catback installs, cam and head swaps for friends and myself in the past. I have the technical knowledge. I have been a member on this board long before the site redesign, bout 2years. I have helped many people in the past under different screen names. I now just sit back and read, other than post the same answers over and over again. Your question is one that has come up so often that it makes me sick!!!! G o d d a m n read the archives or do a search!!!!!!!!

This is what a fellow thirdgenner said in the past:
Why is it people with slow cars always go Mustang hunting? Is it that you think they're slow enough so your pathetic little 305 TBI with a flowmaster and a K&N can keep up?

Third, If you don't want my opinion or want to read what I've said in a response, read right past it. Don't reply. Its a public forum, as are the rest and everyones opinion is welcome. I have mine, you have yours. I think you drive a slow insurance-friendly POS. You may think I drive a POS too. So what? Your opinion matters none to me.

 

I'll post one more response before losing interest in this...
Of all the posters on this message board. You have shown yourself to be arrogant, offensive and generally worthless. For someone with so much supposed technical knowledge gained from your many engine swaps (liar, I have read your other posts), you haven't shown one ounce of it here. Are you going to tell me you are an ASE Master tech next? Wow, buy a 350 and slap a miniram on there? Beating a stang can be done much easier and more inexpensively than that. But i suppose you are just rehashing something you heard someone else say before. I too have been a member of this board since before it was taken down, and i have to say that you resemble the trolls that caused all the trouble in the non-tech board and caused Dirk to take it down. And troll, is the word used on UBBs to describe someone like yourself who only exists to cause trouble instead of contributing. So once more...go crawl under your rock and stay there.

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

I have never said that I was an ASE Master tech, have done what I have said I've done to engines in the past. The 350 and Miniram was a suggestion to get you on the right path, in the right frame of mind. I throughly know that beating a stang can be done much easier and more inexpensively than that. In your first post you showed that you haven't a clue on how to make a car fast, especially your 305. In short it was a slap in the face to bring you back to reality. I know you can make your 305 a bit quicker but it will cost you more in the long run than starting out with a 350ci, Miniram, Superram, Ramjet, TPI, or a good carb. On the former site I disliked the non-tech section, I rarely went in there let alone post. The kids in there were just looking for a fight all the time. If you actually read my other posts you will see that I have given and recieved good advice in the past. This isnt the only board I post on, in fact I rarely post on this board because it is non-tech. I am glad you feel secure by calling everyone that disagrees with you a troll, in that fact you are a troll too. So once more...go crawl under your rock and stay there. In the future you can avoid conflicts of interest by doing a search before you post. If you dont want opinions dont post...............

 

Roc, you are really determined to have the last word in this thread aren't you? I'm actually surprised that it hasn't been locked yet. Oh well, at least you gave up on calling me a hillbilly, thank you so much for that. My self-esteem was really taking a beating there. Well anyways, I'm sure that you'll be happy to know that your "slap in the face" as you call it, woke me up and made me see the light. Guess I'll just go "spray the hell out of my motor till it blows" Oh wait...no I won't. Does anyone ELSE have any suggestions?

P.S. get new material Roc, repeating my quotes about your troll status is tiring.

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

Hey Dana'86_305 I am siding with Like a ROC 89. Man grow up and face it, you bought a dog of a car!!! There is no amount of bolt ons that can make it hang with a Mustang. Like a ROC 89 has consistantly told you how to beat a Mustang: GET A 350!!!!! However you being so ignorant have overlooked it. Its people like you that make posts get locked!!! Search the archives if you cant face the opinions of the members here!!!! Or else get off the board!!!!!

 

Slow,

My car may not be in league with an L98 or fox 5.0, however i that doesn't mean i can't mod it to compete. The answer to competing with Mustangs is not always to swap in a 350. There are plenty of 305s on this board that can hang with and smoke stangs, so it was their opinion i was asking for. You'll notice that other ppl in this thread have given some constructive advice and i thanked them for it and asked some follow up questions. My problems with Like a Roc started when he called my engine a POS and made untrue comments and assumptions about my first post. If you READ through my first post and then READ what he wrote, then you should see what i mean. There was absolutely no reason for his attitude, and of course i would be expected to respond negatively to it. I have never given such a negative response to anyone before having to in this thread, and for that matter have never had a thread locked.

 

OK, the LG4 is a boat anchor. The only way to make it competitive is a new cam, intake, and heads. That motor got the worst cam and some of the crappiest heads in the world. Thank God mine blew up. Why not chunk the CC carb and distributor while you're at it. By then, it's not really an LG4 and isn't really cost effective either. You might as well get a 350 and start from there. The truck 350 idea was a good idea and not too expensive. Like Dana'86_305 said, not exactly a bolt on either. Hot Rod magazine did an article called junkyard jewel where they took a relatively sound junkyard 350, swapped the cam, put on Vortec heads and Edelbrock's Vortec performer RPM intake, a Holley 750, and made nearly 400 horspower for about $1500. Of course they didn't include gasket prices or the little things you need, so add another $100-$200. Not too shabby. It's faster, easier, and cheaper than building an LG4. You can see that I agree with Like a ROC 89, but I don't agree with his attitude.
Dana'86_305 never claimed his car was fast. He stated that he wanted to be able to beat mustangs, meaning that he can't right now and implying that his car was slow. He was asking for ideas and information. Like a ROC 89 came in and blasted him for wanting to build the engine he has up and ended with a comment that came out of the blue.

Then, it just turned into a pissing match between the two with nothing beneficial coming out of it. Like a ROC 89 could have gotten his point across in a much better way instead of his "slap in the face" method.

------------------
82 Camaro:
350
Erson cam, ported heads,Comp Cams 1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600
Crane Hi-6 ignition, Accel supercoil
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall.
Eibach Pro Kit
SLP 1 3/4" headers

 

mcconahay37:

Thanks for the ideas, I appreciate it. I'll try and get that issue of Hot Rod and check it out. Maybe a 350 is in my future after all.


------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

Anyone who thinks a lg4 motor wont be fast is an idiot.
It may cost a bit to make it fast, Hot rod had one put out around 400Hp.
I have an lg4 and changed my cam and added headers and exhaust,corvette servos etc.
It may not have 400 hp,but it's fast.

 

your 305 may be slow stock but, it is no 17 sec. 1/4 it is a solid 16.5 I know what they run. second yes the stangs have you hands down they are running efi and headers right out of ford and the ford t-5 gearing is almost perfect for there cars. but, the 305 is just a 350 with small cylinders that keep the valves from breathing like they should pluse the cub diff. any thing youy do to the 350 you can do to your 305 just remember the 350 will gain more hp than the 305 will with the same mod. the headers will help but, don't expect to jump all over the stang you would be lucky to follow with just that. try an intake (duel plane style). really the only thing that will let you beat the stangs would be the headers,cam,heads and intake. stay as far away from a carter/eldjunk carb as you can thats where every one screws up the stock one is better. the stupid idiot I am sure has problems with stangs as well I can tell by the way he talks. my 305 never ever had a problem with a stock stang gt! I have no idea why you would need a 350 just to beat a stock 302.

 

Okay, enough of the pissing contest. Heres what I did to get my 84 TA's LG4 to run with stock 5 liters(aside from building a 383) Start with pulling your heads and having the machine shop shave a few cc's off the deck to bump compression out of the pisser. Swap in a cam that promotes good low speed torque, but will also let the motor rev a little higher. The stock L-69 cam would be an improvement or an aftermarket too. I used the Crane Compucam thats one step above stock L-69 specs. Get an Weiand Stealth intake. This will be usable when you get a 350 too. Get a set of shorty headers with a good Y-pipe and your set. I hung with the 5-speeds and beat quite a few automatics. That was 87 to 93 cars-the 79-84 cars were no problem-ever. And keep in mind that all this was on a 140,000 mile engine that never had the valve covers off until I played with it. Have fun.

 

Exactly what I have been saying!!!! Sorry to hurt your fragile ego...but come on were all men here with a common intrest, not a bunch of weenies in nitting class!!!

 

Well I too would have to agree with Like a ROC...In your sig you say you have new paint and an 800 watt system plus you are working in at an investment firm so you probably make decent money....while you could mod the 305...you will still probably only end up keeping up with a bone stock stang...how many bone stock stangs are there? so that means you actually have to do heads, cam, etc to keep up with your average stang..so by the time you do that it would be much cheaper to just throw a nice 350 in there to begin with.....I have one of the nicest looking daily driven camaros in my area but I too have a 305 which I know is slower than my 10 speed bike so I won't even waste my time attempting to race anything since I dont feel like losing to everyone and I have no plans at all to mod this engine...why? Sure it is possible to make this fast...but its much easier and cheaper to make it faster with a 350....

Take your car to the track and see how slow it really is..you are currently about 2 - 2.5 seconds slower than an average stang which means you need about 200-250 more horsepower to keep up with them..you wont be getting that from a bolt on

 

It's the August '99 issue if you want to get it or you know somebody with a long-time subscription.

------------------
82 Camaro:
350
Erson cam, ported heads,Comp Cams 1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600
Crane Hi-6 ignition, Accel supercoil
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall.
Eibach Pro Kit
SLP 1 3/4" headers

 

though it may not be cheap, i think crate engines can be a great deal. i am in the same boat you are in dana86_305, i have a carbed 305 with 145 horsepower stock. i have never raced the car because i bought it with the sole intention of ripping out the 305 and dropping in a 350. i was going to build my own, but after adding it all up, it was like only 500 dollars more for a crate engine with a warranty. the 350HO crate has 330 hp and 380 ft lbs of torque, which is an excellent platform to mod once you get it in. it is $2000 from Jegs, and lets you put whatever you want on the intake/exhaust side of things (headers, intake, carb) as well as a distributer. i plan on doing this, as it seems less risky than adding a lot of horsepower to a 100,000 mile plus engine. just my opinion.

 

lol u dont need 200hp more to hang with stangs LMAO, what do u think stangs are 450hp beasts twick91???

look ill keep it pretty simple. Stock your car runs about a 16.5 and has about 155hp. Your on the right track with your mods, the first thing i can tell u is to pull your heads. Take them down to a machine shop and for about 200$ they will do a little machineing, 3 angle valve job some porting and polishing ect...... while the heads are at the machine shop find a used L98 cam from a vette or third gen. Drop the new cam in and by the time that job is done your heads sould be ready. Between those 2 mods u will hand with stock stangs. Dont worry about headers, you shouldnt be revving your car that high to warrent getting them any way. The next thing id look into doing is some more drive train mods, i would highly recomend a stall converter and posi unit. The 99$ posi unit from SLP engineering is a great peice and its the same thing that comes on the new ram airs. A stall converter is worth about .5 in the quarter its self. TO get good quarter mile times isnt always a motor thing, u need a good drive train for it. With a little head work and a cam you will be in the stock 5.0 stang/Lb9 f body times. The converter and posi unit will put u ahead of the stock a4 stang. The 5 spd stangs are the ones to watch for. BEcouse they have a 5 spd means they will even give an L98 a good run so id recomend raceing a4 stangs unless u plan on a 5 spd swap down the line, which isnt that bad of an idea and is worth about .5 in the quarter.......

 

Here's the deal. I use to do "super-tunes" on these cars when they were new. Off the show room floor the Ford 5.0 GT 5 speeds,, with me in the car in the "before" tests usually generated 15.30's with the "want to be racer" driving. Removing the silencer, adding a K&N, bumping the timing, 160 degree stat,, a little better launch (me driving with the owner as a passenger) I could get them running in the 14.40 range. The 5 speed LX (lighter car) with the 3.08 gears could run 14.20's. Gut the cats,, Flowmasters, pullies,, a set of slicks and you're looking at a solid 13.80 car. Most Chevy LG4 Automatics with me in the car ran in the 17.1 - 16.8 range. It was not uncommon with tricking the carb out, bumping the timing, and 160 stat for these cars to run 15.8s me driving,, with passenger. That was a huge drop,, but still far from even the bone stock 15.30 5.0 GTs. I did more bolt ons to the L69s in the heavier Monte Carlos. Intake, headers, and cam swap in the heavier SS (although they had 3.73 gears) generated times in the 14.80 range. Which was fast enough to take a REALLY stock 5 speed 5.0 Mustang. However, just the least little bit of mods to the Mustang,, and those mods on the 305 just wouldn't cut it. So,, long story short. Here's my suggestion don’t buy anything for the 305 that you can't put on a 350 (or larger) engine,, or do the drivetrain mods as ONEFINE8T9 suggested. Because if you're serious about racing and the bug really bites you,,, if you're like most folks you'll want to swap the 305 for a larger engine. If your engine is sound (not using oil, running well, etc) and if nitrous would be something you would consider,, bolt it on then start saving the bucks for a 350 or larger engine. You'll have a ton of fun with a 125 shot on the 305 - especially with a good hooking suspension. Plus you can swap that N20 over to the new engine. With just some basic tricks to the carb, timing and nitrous on the LG4 you could run LOW 14s which could take a slightly modified 5 Speed Stang.

Please don't think I'm bashing the Chevy 305,,, a friend bought a new 305 TPI 1LE 5 speed back (when it was new) show room stock (street tires and all)it ran a high 14.80 something (via my Vericom - me in the car). This was faster than a bone stock Mustang would read on my Vericom with me in the car. We installed a 160 stat, K&N filters and just took out the air deflectors - not a gutting, bumped the TPS and the timing, bolted on 26x8.5 slicks, took it to the track, slid the clutch at 4500,, rode it hard,,,, and I know it ran one 13.98,,, and a couple 14.0's!!! - before the stock clutch left for vacation. So,, again,, long story short the 5.0 liter 5 speed cars Ford or Chevy are pretty quick with next to nothing done to them. The typical LG4 automatics just needs so much work to get it that fast (N/A),, that it's really not much more expensive (if any) to build up a 350 (or larger) engine on a stand (then swap it in) - sooner or later you'll need a rebuild anyway. Plus you'll get results most folks would not be disappointed with going with the cubes. So,, that’s why you’re getting a lot of “go with a 350” (or larger). Not that you really need it to out run a "stock" Mustang,,, it's just I doubt there are many out there that have not been tweaked a little. However, they are getting pretty old,, and probably more ragged out than still in good shape if it's the original engine.

 

I know stangs dont have 450hp...but his stock 305 doesnt come with over 200hp either...so stock it has maybe 150hp...and now with probably around 100,000 miles its tired and even slower so adding about 200hp to his current engine would be needed to get just over 300hp...the stock stang came with what about 210HP? most are probably modded up to about 250hp plus they are lighter and it did 1/4 mile about 1.5 - 2 seconds faster stock than the 305.....and I thought in general you needed about 100hp to lose 1 second in 1/4 mile...so he would need about 200hp

 

while your theory is true your forgetting the drive train. He can make up for over a second in the quarter mile between gears, torque converter, posi unit and a nice shift kit. He will easily get another second off his quarter mile times between a nice cam and a little head work, enough to beat stock stangs nicely.....

 

dood, twick/slow89iroc/andlike a roc are the same person. Sorry len, hehe. But yea 305 TBI guy. I'm experienced with 305 TBI's and let me tell you. My friends 90 LX AUTO stock handed me my *** after 3.73's/andmany more mods i won list. get a 350. its sorta likea black hole that you toss your money into. and just one thing, for you people who thingk buying the highest gears for your cars will give yout he best performance...desereve to get run over by your 4.10 or 3.73 3rd gen. you should never go higher than a 3.42 in our cars unless some cam swap or intake swap has taken place. choosing gears/cam/heads is a science. you dont just toss parts. sorry, had to get that out, i hate when people say my 4.10's will rock you.

------------------
1990 G92 5spd LB9 - 3.42 80,000 miles

Accel Ignition/Wires (8.8mm), Advanced Timing, TB Bypass, Ported and Gasket Matched Plenum, Synthetic Motor Oil, 160 Thermo, TPIS Airfoil, K&N Air Filters, Centerforce I Pressure Plate and Clutch, Edelbrock TES Headers, Dual Cats, Edelbrock RPM Series Catback, Homemade Ram Air, Bosch +4 Platinum Plugs

14.4 @ 94mph w/2.0622 60ft (w/o headers and catback)

14.426 @ 96.19mph w/2.167 60ft(w/headers and catback)

 

Wow! This thread got really productive, thanks for the posts...So I have a few options here. In regards to a nitrous setup for my car...what brands do you recommend? I have heard good things about Nitrous Express and not so good things about N.O.S. (ie. solenoids sticking open). What upgrades to my fuel system would be required? I know I'd have to bump my fuel pressure and therefore invest in a new pump. How many gph should be enough?

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

If you're thinking of swapping motors, why not get a 400 small block. Even stock it'll have tons of torque and that's what you need on the street. I've built a few and they will run fast even with minor mods. Quite a few years ago I had a 69 chevelle that I put a 400 in that came from a bone yard. Only thing I did was put a .450 lift cam, headers, and a crappy intake and old 600 cfm holley and with 3.08 gears ran 14.20's-14.30's at around 103mph. As far as nitrous I prefer NX over NOS brand. A little warning though, once you spray...you can't stop. That I'll guarantee

------------------
2000 NHRA Edition T/A
Pewter Metallic
A4 3.23 Gear w/GSC's
Whisper lid, MAF Ends, Ram Air Kit, Exhaust C/O
Best 60ft:1.94
1/8th:8.381@86.03
1/4:12.963@108.44

1989 IROC-Z 5.7
Auto w/3.24 gears

 

Back to your question on me telling you to swap in the truck engine. If you find a nice healthy seventies era long block and just yank it up and drop it right back in you will be fine on money, and now for the emmissions laws.

I live in Illinois so I do not know how Mass. laws work, but over here all the more they care about is what comes out the tail pipe. (The way it should be.) Technically you are not allowed to swap anything at all that messes with any emissions controls. But here is how you get around that.

Get the 350 or if you are lucky a 400 = $400
+ 6 hours if you are slow
Set of new Vortec heads 64cc chambers 1.94/1.50 valves = $415 + 2 hours to install again if you are slow
Edlebrock intake that with approprate bolt pattern = $180 + 20 minutes
New carb and distibutor go check Jegs or Summit or local speed shop
This gives you knew heads a used block with who knows how many miles left on it and something to work with.
The absolute cheapest way is to get the old engine and hunt around till you find a L69 Camaro or Monte Carlo or a TPI 305 Camaro and yank the heads and put them on the old short block. Put a slightly better cam in it and you are there. Reuse your old carb and distributor and everything else that you need from your old engine.
$350 for truck short block + 6 hours
$100 for heads +2 2hours (this combo may be less if you are sneaky)
$100 for various other things
Your car would be down for a little over a weekend but for really cheap you would end up with a lot more power.


------------------
84 Z28 383
Stripped w/Cage back halved w/ladder bars and coil overs and 9 inch
700R-4 3.73

 

One more thing. I noticed in your sig that you have the intake,carb,exhaust, and gear covered. Find a 400 and drop it in, swap your intake/carb and you'll be set, best of all you can say it's a 305 and unless someone has a trained eye they'll never know

------------------
2000 NHRA Edition T/A
Pewter Metallic
A4 3.23 Gear w/GSC's
Whisper lid, MAF Ends, Ram Air Kit, Exhaust C/O
Best 60ft:1.94
1/8th:8.381@86.03
1/4:12.963@108.44

1989 IROC-Z 5.7
Auto w/3.24 gears

 

Sounds good to me Dano, what trucks came w/ a 400? Is there a casting number i should look for? I've also heard about having to drill steam holes to prevent overheating which can be common with these blocks. So i should basically look for a motor with a solid bottom end and do the head and cam work that you guys have suggested? Oh, and thanks for the detailed responses. Especially ChronosTitan.

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

I don't know if trucks came with 400's or not, three of the four 400's I had were from 1970 chevy impala/caprices. they were 4-bolt main motors and the other was a 2-bolt. You can tell if it's a 4-bolt block by looking at the freeze plugs on the side of the block. 2 plugs and it's a 2-bolt, 3 and it's a 4-bolt. I'll try and find the casting #'s for you. It's been so long I can't remember 'em. You can drill the steamholes yourself with a drill press and a old gasket as a template. Yeah, I'd look for one with a good bottom end and as long as you have it out I'd at least throw some bearings/rings in. Won't cost much and it'll be cheap insurance. I didn't on the motor I explained in a earlier post but I was young and on a fine thread budget. Good Luck and if you have any questions feel free to email me.

------------------
2000 NHRA Edition T/A
Pewter Metallic
A4 3.23 Gear w/GSC's
Whisper lid, MAF Ends, Ram Air Kit, Exhaust C/O
Best 60ft:1.94
1/8th:8.381@86.03
1/4:12.963@108.44

1989 IROC-Z 5.7
Auto w/3.24 gears

 

Check out the following link to a scan of a CHP LG4 buildup. www.inter-scape.com/ray/305buildup.htm

I understand not wanting to do a head/cam swap and spend alot of money on the 305. But take note of the earlier stages of the buildup where they made 230ish hp with a Performer RPM (worth 15hp over the standard Performer in that dyno) and headers on the motor. Also take note that by swapping in a good cam they picked up 40ish hp (leaving the stock heads alone). You can do that swap for relatively little money with the engine still in the car. With that stuff (I'd go with a slightly smaller cam) you could easily be putting out 250 hp, which would put you at being able to beat alot of 5.0 Stangs...

I switched the peanut cam (same cam you have) out of my 86 IROC's 305 TPI and it yeilded excellent improvements even with the stock heads and without headers (then).

And for everyone going on about how wonderful their LB9 is all I have to say is you're dreaming. Unless you got one of the very few decent LB9s (an 85 or a 89-92 G92 5spd) you're car is slower than **** too. I've had 3, and they're nearly as much of a joke stock for performance as the LG4 is...

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray


[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited July 30, 2001).]

 

If it were me I'd spend the money on the 305, because most people don't have garages and an engine hoist with which to do engine swaps. Bet no one thought of that! Plus if you ever do want a bigger engine the 305 parts fit on the 350-400. Someone published some torque HP numbers along with hardware over the weekend. Might want to check that out...400 ponies is better than 1 stang.

LG4 305 Gross Dyno numbers
Headers, Flowmasters, non computer Q-Jet , HEI

Baseline ----------------197HP @ 4600 ------- 261TQ @ 3100
+Performer Intake---- 217HP @ 4200 ------- 285TQ @ 3300
RPM Intake ------------ 231HP @ 4800 ------- 285TQ @ 3300
Victor Jr / 750 Hol ---- 228HP @ 4700 ------- 291TQ @ 3500

+X-treme 218/224 ---- 270HP @ 5100 ------- 291TQ @ 3700
__ (vacuum 20” to 14.5” – however very little low end loss )

+Vortec heads and
Super Victor intake --- 325HP @ 5800 -------- 317TQ @ 4800

+AFR 1.99/1.55 58cc
Uncapped exhaust
Perf RPM, mod 650 – 387HP @ 6000 -------- 368TQ @ 4000



------------------
'89 Red Formula 350- 350 .060 over forged pistons 232* @ .020 cam Performer RPM Holley 750 DP Vortec 1.94 1.50 Accel Coil and dist. Hedman shorty headers Dual Exhaust w/ cutouts 1LE WS6 suspension, wheels, and brakes, 9 Bolt 3.27 Posi Edelbrock LCA's & Track bar subframe connectors 700R4 A&A snorkel scoop Eclipse Head Unit Delco Bose Speakers 2 12" Pioneer subs w/ 400 watt/chanel amp

[This message has been edited by ATOMonkey (edited July 30, 2001).]

 

Uhm I am not the same person as like a roc...he is len i am tom :P

 

True doing the drivetrain doesnt actually add any HP but does improve ET..and I will agree that if he did everything you said he keep up with/beat stock stangs...but isnt that an awful lot of work just to keep up with a stock stang?

 

If you get Vortec heads, you can get around buying a new intake by drilling the holes in the intake to match with the holes on the Vortec heads.

You can rent an engine hoist for $40 for a weekend around here. Just call around. Not having a garage shouldn't stop you if you're willing to swap heads or cam. If you need a place to keep parts, that's what living rooms and bath tubs are for

------------------
82 Camaro:
350
Erson cam, ported heads,Comp Cams 1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600
Crane Hi-6 ignition, Accel supercoil
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall.
Eibach Pro Kit
SLP 1 3/4" headers

 

twick your right it is alot of work but u gotta remember that we are dealing with chevys lowest out put motor here to fords highest out put EFI set ups, some with mods! Now had we been talking a 305 TPI 5 spd VS say a 302 EFI 5 spd it would be an even race, but he wasnt blessed that way so its gonna take a litle more work to make up for the lower out put motor........

 

Don't listen to Like a Roc Head, or the other trolls... Here is a simple list of parts to put you well over the 300 hp mark.
Vortec Fast Burn Aluminum Heads
Vortec Performer Intake
Compucams Camshaft
Open Element cleaner
Edelbrock Performer Carb
Better valve springs
Roller Rockers
Good set of headers - Jet hot coat them!!
High Flow cat(s)
Free-Flowing Muffler(s)
I realize you have some of these already, but that would really liven up your 305, and let you hand a LB9, L98, LT1, 5.0, or 4.6 Mustang GT/Cobra it's *** unless they have spent some real money on injection systems.
That is the beauty of carb/TBI. It is cheap to modify for real power. Not only would the TPI guys have to do the same, but also spend thousands of dollars on their injection parts to breathe over 4500 rpms.




------------------
Flowmaster 80 series muffler
no Air/Cat, straight pipe
no smog pump/pulley
K&N Open Element cleaner
Ultimate TBI Mods
Homemade Subframe Connectors
GM Wonderbar
lead pedal foot . See my project rocket turtle @
http://oursportscars.homestead.com/firebird.html

 

Wow! Thanks for all the replies guys. I have quite a few decisions to make now. Build the 305 or go the 350 route. Hmmm..dunno yet. I'm def. going to do those headers tho. After the car craft article got a 197 hp baseline for the LG4 before any mods other than exhaust, gotta let my baby exhale better. I'm just really glad that you guys turned this from a useless pissing match into a real informative thread!

------------------
86 Camaro, metallic blue
LG4, Tuned Q-Jet
Edlebrock Performer Intake, Edlebrock Open Element,High Flow Cat,Dynomax Catback,B&M Megashifter,GN fan switch, 180* TSAT, 3.42s, 800 Watt System, !EGR, '78 corvette rims, new paint!!!

 

another big key to making HP with anysize motor is to have it rebuilt. SUmmit raceing sells a rebuild kit for 305s and is available with all forged internals, comes with new everything (except crank) and only runs about 400$. That would be first on my list of things to do becouse all the mods in the world wont do anything if all u get if blowby. Not to mention the fact that if u use forged piston tops u can use a power adder like NOS or possibly a weiand roots type blower down the line, drop a nice set of heads and nice cam on a rebuiilt bored .30 over 305 and u wil see some good numbers that is going to be very reliable and streetable.......

BTW if u dont plan on useing a power adder at all in the cars life u can get the rebuild kit w out forged internals for like 249$$

 

Ok, I got something to say. So, from what i've read on this post, the LG4, which is a 305, is a "boat anchor" as someone put it? Does that mean all 305's are boat anchors? My TPI 305 doesn't have monster hp like a 350, but I guarantee it can hold it's own. Maybe beat some stang's, maybe lose to some too. Not everyone can afford a nice 350, plus cost and time of putting it in. I can't, so I plan to mod the hell outta my 305. Plus, you can have a fast car, but if you dunno how to drive it, the other dude, whether slow car or fast car, will hand you your butt. As far as I see it you guys don't deserve to own an F-body. Maybe i'll just sell my Camaro and buy me a Mustang. I have quite a few Stang buddies and they never make fun of each other or even me about car speed or looks or motor size. They just appreciate what they have and go with it. That is the kinda enthusiast I wanna be around and associated with. Not you people.

------------------
86' IROC-Z
5.0L TPI
Spohn panhard bar and LCA's

 

Hah sorry Tom, I thought Len got on your name.

------------------
1990 G92 5spd LB9 - 3.42 80,000 miles

Accel Ignition/Wires (8.8mm), Advanced Timing, TB Bypass, Ported and Gasket Matched Plenum, Synthetic Motor Oil, 160 Thermo, TPIS Airfoil, K&N Air Filters, Centerforce I Pressure Plate and Clutch, Edelbrock TES Headers, Dual Cats, Edelbrock RPM Series Catback, Homemade Ram Air, Bosch +4 Platinum Plugs

14.4 @ 94mph w/2.0622 60ft (w/o headers and catback)

14.426 @ 96.19mph w/2.167 60ft(w/headers and catback)

 

Very true...I have a 305tbi and I know a stock 305tpi would beat me by about 2 seconds..so I know the problem isnt that a 305 is technically bad....In my opinion I think that is way too much work to do to a 305 just to keep up with stock stangs tho thats why I am planning on going with a 350 sometime in the future(and ditching the tbi )...then once you start doing the other mods you are actually beating the stangs instead of just keeping up with them

 

An LG4 IS a boat anchor. It has crappy heads, crappy intake, ok carb, crappy exhaust, and the crappiest cam in the world. Not all 305s are boat anchors though. Add cam, heads, better intake, carb and exhaust, even a power adder, and you can have a real decent performer. After all that though, it isn't really an LG4 anymore. It's a very well prepped 305 that the general never produced. Also, it doesn't matter where you go, you will have jerks and nice people. I've met as many unlikeable Mustang, Dodge, and import owners as I have F-body owners. I've also met really cool people in both camps.

------------------
82 Camaro:
350
Erson cam, ported heads,Comp Cams 1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600
Crane Hi-6 ignition, Accel supercoil
TH350 tranny with 2500 stall.
Eibach Pro Kit
SLP 1 3/4" headers