Hi,
First, in all my research, all I find is conflicting info about hitting the tires, manuals need bias tires, not hitting the tires hard enough causing lack of traction, choices of soft hitting or hard hitting torque converter, from the same manufacturer, same application, same stall rpm. MT ET Street R having the same compound as the S/S butcan absorb a harder hit but still being automatic only. What's the secret for crossing an intersection quicker than a Tesla Ludicrous Plus? I'm seeing guys run mid 7s at the track, in the 1/4, on 235/60r15 Mt drag radials, would those same cars need 325/50s on real roads? The 235s are much stealth ier, which I like.
I get that I need LCARBs and an adjustable torque arm, maybe a shorter torque arm, but how much tire, and how hard to hit it?

 

Track prep makes a world of difference. Less sticky surface a bigger softer tread pattern is needed. But in most cases you will never launch as good on street as a track

They generally take two different suspension setups. Weight balance can be another issue

 

I don't have a lot of experience with unpreped road/track but its a complete different animal compared to a prepped track. My car is worthless under 40 mph on a unprepped track and its slow imo.

I run 275 drag radials at the track. Drag bar with preload on the pass side. LCA, pan hard bar, Tq arm, drag shocks and struts, you name it and its all adjustable. I've played with it so much to get the most out of what i can... high 1.50s 60 foots at the track and at the time that was with a 3.23 gear. But If i would run a 325 drag radial for instance, on the street, it would spin like the earth if i made no other changes. Slicks win out when it comes to that imo. A Lot of things have to be changed to gain traction even with a 1.50 1.60 60 foot car bigger tires wont help as much as you may think unless we are talking some 28x10.5 slicks on a 400hp car, then you can probably get them to hook up with minimal adjustments. Adjustable shocks in the rear are great and soft lazy front struts, so you can get the launch to plant all that weight over your tires. And let alown all the adjustments in your front and rear suspension, the tune can help as well. If you can hook up enough and add in more power once you get going that will help too.

 

Thanks guys! 11.23 on a 3.1 is a huge accomplishment!
Maybe I need to post separate threads in separate subforums for the torque converter issue and the tire issue and the suspension issue, but I think my difficulty is with how they interact.
The first problem is the cost of trying everything yourself, it seems so much wiser to just buy the final combo the first time. Which leads into the second problem, how to determine the final combo at minimum outlay.
It seems fact that, to 60' in less than 1.6 seconds, these cars need SFCs, LCARBs, adjustable torque arm, drag struts, drag springs, drag shocks, sticky rears, skinny fronts, and probably battery relocation. Tubular K can't hurt, likewise aluminum heads, aluminum water pump, etc.
It seems a 295/65R15 is the absolute maximum that can go in "stock" rear wheelwells with "stock" suspension, but I'm leaning toward 295/55 as a less-obvious maximum.
I don't know why I feel ashamed to admit it, but I want to beat a Hellcat and a Tesla Ludicrous Plus across any city-intersection. I intend to jump out front then not exceed the posted speed limit. Just let them know how it feels to lose. And I want to prove that brains plus labor plus $5-10K can beat a huge investment. I have a V8 third gen I love, so why not use it? Maybe I should hunt for a Fox Mustang shell, but that money could do a lot for the car I have.
I'd much rather accomplish this on a 235/60R15 M/T ET Street S/S on stock 15x7 wheels than buying more-obvious 15x10s with more-obvious 295/55R15 ET Street Rs.
I can envision hitting the tires too hard, but I don't yet comprehend what I've seen about not hitting them hard enough.

 

Tesla has a 0-60 mph of 2.5 seconds. Do you realize how flippin' fast that is in a street car?

 

That cars suspention is literly light years ahead of our old lead sleds.

And yes... That's freaking fast for a street car!!!

 

Electric cars are different

 

Exactly. Trying to beat a Tesla across the intersection is probably a fools errand. It's better to tackle a car like that car from a roll.

 

This is why noone does it, you guys give up without trying. There are YouTube vids of fox mustangs on 275/60R15 drag radials managing it.
Then again, Team Z Motorsports has their fox on 275s doing 1.15-second 60-foot times. The Teslas can't touch that, even if they can do 60 MPH in 1.9 seconds. If the best a third-gen can do is a 1.4-second 60-foot, then maybe third-gens have already lost permanently.
I'll just go back to reading up on the third-gen that did the 1.4, while thinking about grafting a fox rear suspension under my third-gen.

 

I love these cars, but if your wanting to buy one setup, the final setup as you say, then I would just buy the Mustang and copy whatever setup that person used. There are more Mustang specific parts than thirdgen specific parts but there are more SBC and LS parts at better prices than the Ford world can offer. BUT you can put an LS in a Mustang. It's going to be a give and take but if you know of one setup you can just copy and paste, I would go that route.

I've always heard that the 80s mustangs are great drag cars but they, like the thirdgen Fbody, are starting to become scarce and see a price rise. Better hurry if you go that route.

 

You must have seen the announcement of the upcoming Tesla roadster. It's okay if a $200K, 8 second car beats you. Really, it is.

Orr89RocZ (replied earlier) actually does have an 8 second car at the track. But it's not an 8 second car in street trim. You see the difference? Besides, when you have a car of that caliber you don't really race it on the street, you just drive briskly.

 

I don't follow NHRA, are Tesla vehicles banned from participating in any track competition against gas/diesel engines?

 

Build your 3rd gen like this one and traction isn't so much of an issue. This was a big block Camaro, that if memory serves, was a solid 9 second car in NA trim (from the shop I was affiliated with a while back). Not much for turning left or right, but lots of traction. Street or strip. A 36" rear tire will do that.





BIG Sportsman rear tire and a fully adjustable 4-link (circa 1987)

 

The problem is that many members open their mouths without really knowing the accomplishments of the community beforehand. I honestly don't see Brian's GTA having a problem taking care of a Tesla whether from a roll, or from a dig, and this is something that any member can do with their third gen without going nuts. His time slip embellished a 1.2x sixty foot in the video below. Rick Head actually went faster than Brian in similar trim with a twin turbo Camaro, almost positive he was in the 1.1x sixty foot range, and thank God I have video of that from over a decade ago before he sold it. There are obviously third gens that went faster in the 1/4 mile, but I'm talking in real street trim, which is something that is important to me. Won't take anything away from the Tesla though, it's a very nice ride, and will only get faster in time.

- Rob

 

Any info of that suspension? Torque arm? Back half?

 

I'd have to double check Brian's suspension, but I know for a fact that Rick Head ran a stock suspension setup consisting of full BMR parts with his twin turbo Camaro. I think his best ET was 7.66 in the 1/4, and this was well over a decade ago. Not sure about Brian's GTA though, but I doubt it's a four link or ladder bar setup, pretty sure there's a torque arm under there as well...

- Rob

 

It's not that we don't know what a race car can do, we just put that out of scope of discussion. It's not much of an accomplishment to beat a Tesla luxury sedan if you have a race car. Kind of defeats the whole "take them by surprise" thing. And it gives too much credibility to the Tesla if you need a race car to get the job done.

To paraphrase the OP, how do you take an unassuming real street car and outdo a Tesla on the street at legal speeds. And to raise the ante further, now the OP just realized there is a new Tesla coming with an 8 second 1/4 mile stat.

Electrics are about to revolutionize the performance car world and factory performance cars are about to get really, really fast. It might be a little while before that performance trickles down to the middle-class, but it's coming.

 

And frankly there is no downside when a Tesla owner races somebody. If they win then they get to laugh at you. If they lose then who cares because it is a 4700 pound luxury car for gosh sakes.

The only thing that trumps that is 'ugly'. The guy in an ugly car has even less to lose than the Tesla owner. So I say part of the recipe has to be make the car ugly.

 

Just for fun....

 

Hmm. Not a third gen in the mix....