This guy at work just got one and he says he's already beaten civcs and integras.What my chances I have a 88 V6 2.8 with K&N's,gutted airbox,flowmaster,and a fresh tune-up? Also does anyone have et's on them?

 

im not much into compacts, but my friend has a 99 cavalier, with a 4 cylinder (all stock), and believe it or not its a fast little thing, and tough to catch upto, he annihalated my cousins elky with a 350 and a torquey cam , so dont be misleaded by the little "smile" of the grill, thier smilin cuz they might just win.

--Stormr

 

The DOHC 2.4 (New Quad 4) powerd ones (Z24) are good for low 16's stock maybe very high 15's with a K&N an muffler. My girlfriends 1996 Sunfire with the 2.2 and a K&N, and muffler with cold air induction runs pretty good, I have beat several DOHC from a roll.

 

i'd be a little weary of racing that guy, even my 8 has troubles with a few imports and ive beaten an 85 iroc in good shape

 

ive raced a 86 iroc in a 95 sunfire gt. i didnt beat him but he wasnt more then a car lenth ahead and he couldnt pull on me. he had a few mods not sure what though and the sunfire was bone stock. so yeah id say the cavs are fast little cars too.

 

stock, a 99 RS cavalier runs around 11.3 @60 in the 1/8, but thats at a REALLY crappy track, so i would say they run around 10.5 in the 1/8 normally. maybe a 16.6 1/4? somewhere around there. my best friend has one, so thats how i got the numbers. we just put a dump and intake on it, and it actually sounds REALLY good. not whiny like civics, and dint have to put the fart-can exhaust on it!! we are about to throw on a T4 turbo, though

 

The new Z24s usually run between 15.5-16 stock at sea level, which could give a few thirdgenners a good run for their money for sure.

 

I thought it was pretty fast,I saw him off a stop light WOT and thought I'd ask before I go running my mouth and getting my a$$ handed to me in the ol' 2.8 V6. Thanks guys

 

i go tbeat by the same Z24 on the track and on the street. no mods, only a 5 speed. i was head to head with him until hehit 3rd, then he pulled like a bat outta hell. surprised me!

 

:nono:Hold on, wait a minute He didnt "annihalate" my 'Camino, just paced me at 100mphish!!!!! Did surprise me though !!

 

My freind was pacing a Lexus just a couple days ago @ $1.10 in his '95 cavaleir auto... They will go that fast... I had my own fun [in my $1,800 car] with the [$40,000] Lexus of course, didn't take much effort to get up on his ***, but I refrain from being a dick, I cut myself off around 3100 RPM (in 5th) once I had caught up just for educational purposes of course.

Anyhow, I can beat that cavaleir no problem, I'd say newer ones are a little faster but still not unbeatable.

 

GM High Tech Performance just did a drag strip test of a new 2001 Olds Alero which was equipped with the same engine and 5speed as a Z24 Cavalier. It went 16.4. The Cavalier is probably a little lighter, so im thinking 16.0 at best.

 

The one I saw was an automatic,but he says it has the performance package,front & back swaybars and coil over springs,and a few other things.He said it was hard to find aftermarket parts,I don't know if he meant perfomance or body kits and etc.

 

come on here guys, we are talkin about cavaliers here. 4cylinder little turd wagons. 16.0 is not fast in the 1/4. so if you get beat by one, that means your car is not that fast. i mean come on, 16??

 

I'll have to agree with 1meanZ on this. For a factory stock car I'd consider low 14s to be fast. For a moded car, fast is 12s, and the more you've done the faster 'Fast' becomes.

thats my $0.02

 

A new engine just became available in the Cavalier. It is a 2.2 DOHC that makes 180 HP it is called the ecotec. So far I only seen it in the four door model with the sport package the Z24 I saw still had the 150hp 2.4 DOHC. Regular Cavaliers have a 2.2 SOHC engine, don't know the horsepower but it is a good bit less.

 

Just thought I'd clarify some. The Ecotec that was at the Sema had 180 HP. The Ecotecs that are in the Cavaliers ( and Sunfires) only have 140 HP and 150 ft-lbs of TQ. But, according to some folks on Jbody.org, GM is supposed to be coming out with a supercharger for them sometime in the future. Rumored to make around 200HP with the SC if it ever comes out. The regular OHV 2.2s churn out 115 HP. Also, the Z24s are being replaced by the Sport models since there aren't any z24s on Chevy's site. What can I say, I got a friend with at 2000 Z24.

David

 

Ok, I didn't know the 2.2 ecotec had less horsepower than the one I read about in the sema show, but it makes sense that they wouldn't have more power in a sports package than they do in a Z24. I did see a new Z24 at the dealer though. They need to bump the Z24 up to at least 180hp and if they made it rearwheel drive it would be great. Yes that supercharger has been mentioned for the piranha and the solstice but I would rather have a 180-200hp naturally aspirated engine.

 

Hello all,

This is david's friend with the 2000 Z24. I agree with giovanhalen I wish they would make the new ecotec have more NA hp...it could be done but GM doesn't want to do it. I wish they would use some of there partnership with Subaru and make an AWD Supercharged version of the Cavalier...with maybe around 240hp? That would just be bad! Anyway, I just wanted to say that there are some cavaliers out there running mid 13's with the stock engine. Granted there aren't many but there are some. I would say to JohnS if he is still stock it should be a really good race are you a 5 speed? Is he? If they are both 5 speeds and he has no mods I would say it's a drivers race. Don't think I am coming on here with the ***** mentality...I love F-body's I just decided I wanted a "new" car. So I got what I could afford a Cavalier Z24. Later

 

If I had a TPI V8 I wouldn't think twice about it,but I have a automatic V6 and the cavalier is brand new and also an automatic.I'll probably hold off until I find a IROC.

 

There is already a Supercharger avalible as well as a Turbo kit from RKSport. Not sure if Vortech makes it of not.

 

Vortech makes the Supercharger for the 2.4 liter that you can get from www.rsmracing.com I don't think RKsport sells the turbo kit anymore because it is not still listed on there web site.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ericmac450
[B]Hello all,

This is david's friend with the 2000 Z24. I agree with giovanhalen I wish they would make the new ecotec have more NA hp...it could be done but GM doesn't want to do it. I wish they would use some of there partnership with Subaru and make an AWD Supercharged version of the Cavalier...with maybe around 240hp? That would just be bad! Anyway, I just wanted to say that there are some cavaliers out there running mid 13's with the stock engine. .......
..........
sorry but i call..... .... ... ..

 

I will be the first to say my car is not the fastest in the world. I have not bothered to even take to the strip. I know it beats 305 TBI's so it has something.

your saying that a 16 sec car is slow, well considering you pay waht 17K new for one? Spend 2200 on a turbo kit(Yes they are made for it and depending n the trim level you can get 250 HO 250 Trq. That car suddenly goes from 16's into the 13's at least.


Now you go spend what 30K on a camaro and tell me which one you will have more fun cutting cars up with?(I know there are always people wanting to race me in my cam, now imagine pulling up to a 3ed/4th gen and saying you wanna race they laugh at you then cry as you leave them far behind...


I know I would perfer that little Cavlier personally. Not only do you have a hellofa sleeper but easier on gas, and insurance and alot more things out there to personalize it. I know there are $800 brake kits that take the stock 10" to over 13". Rear to 10" Alot better power to weight ratio, just as the natural trq curve is midway the turbo kicks in and holf the fu(k on!. You can get that to canyon carve alot better then any 3rd gen sadly enough. Shorter wheel base... to many things.

 

Front wheel drive SUCKS for handling....and those car's have a higher center of gravity than those of the Thirdgens. A shorter wheel base is only good for REALLY tight courses, in which you aren't even going fast. Longer wheelbases are often benifitial because it's easier to controll the car in a drift. Overall, thirdgen's handle better stock, and better when modded.

Furthermore, as far as dragging on the street go's, a car that can run high 13's on the track will obviously beat a car that run's low 14's on the track, but on the street, things can change up rather quickly.

For example, a front wheel drive car that may have a better power to weight ratio might be faster on the track, when the race is spread out over a 1/4 mile, but on the street where the races are typically much shorter, the dis-advantage you have from a horrible FWD launch might not be able to be made up over the remainder of the race. You could basically have a race decided just in the first 60ft of the race, and it's going to be MUCH easier for that Camaro driver to launch than that Cavilier driver.

 

Originally posted by ericmac450
I think he meant stock internals with some power adder, whether that be supercharger, turbocharger, or Nitrous.

David

 

Actually I have many a front wheel drive and they handled pretty good. Even for stock. Yes I would have liked a few imporvements but hell theywere only temp cars anyway.

They do make drag springs for front wheel drives that do not allow the rear end to drop at all, Meaning all the weight is on the front tires, and you still have perfect control through steering(and if you have equal length half shafts you eliminiate a monster "torque steer"). Camaros when built can lift the front wheels, but that usually slows you down cause you force air under the car(NOT GOOD) and this creates lift(We all know this). If a Cavalier owner spent as much as we did on thier car they would have quicker throttle response, a lighter car(The center of gravity thing is handled through springs as well) I would rather have a lighter car with stiffer springs then a heavier car with more forgiving springs personally. And an eninge that can produce a VERY HIGH pwer to weight ratio, that the camaro has to fight with torque.


Basically 30K for a Camaro.
17K for a Cavalier. The cavalier automatically has 13K to spend to catch up to the same price as the Camaro. And if propperly spent he will have a better performing vehicle by the time he had the cost's the same.
Now you go and spend that aditional 13K on the camaro, it may now be better then the Cav, but at the cost of roughly 45K, where as you might as well have bought a Vette. They are only 40-45K.

 

David is correct, What I meant by the stock engine is that we are not like those Honda guys who go out and change the engine to racing engine and call that all NA. you can make a 2.4 or a 3.1 into a 13 second Cavalier with a Turbo, SC, or spraying the happy gas. Sorry I didn't clear it up. And just from driving both, I would say it's a lot easier for me to hook up my front wheel car to launch than it is for me to hook up a RWD. I have driven almost every year of camaro from 95- including V6's and SS's both Manual's and Auto's. and from what I can tell it's easier to launch the FWD cars. Oh yeah, I am still trying to drive a 91 Z28, but someone I know <cough> david <cough> won't let me

 

ok if you are lifting your tires up enough to have to worry about getting lift you don't have to worry about a cavalier.
plus you want to compare the new z-28's with a new cavalier and do the whole price issue.
ok so you get the extra money to spend on parts but the new z-28's are good for low 13's and the ss's with a good driver can be put into the 12's
is your $17 gonna put you in the 12's? and if not then what? you are getting close to maxing out your power and the z-28 or ss is still stock!
as for the power to weight ratio stuff. you take your car "souped up" cavalier with 240 hp and weighing in at 2400lbs and you get 10lbs to 1 hp. now to get that out of a z-28 that weight 3600 lbs you have to have ohhh 360 hp. man that must be hard to get out of a wimpy pushrod v8
and yes our torque will win us races because we will leave you at the line.
i know "sport compacts" can be fast but you aren't just gonna whoop up on all the v8's just because you have a turbo.
and don't compare the initial purchase price of a car.
i can get me a 3rd gen for $1500 and have $15,500 to spend to make it fast to spend as much as you did on purchasing your cavalier. i wonder who would win that race.
don't take it personally but there just is no replacement for displacement.

 

There is always something better our there. just remember that. And yes there is always something better than displacement. it just depends on how much you wanna spend.

And if you wanna get technical I know of a 95 turbo supra for sale for $2500. (and yes it runs like a bat outta hell)You think your Z is gona beat that stock to stock?. He turns low 13's without the NOS and $1K in upgrades. He has to sell it for too many tickets.

 

2500 dollars and it runs?! Dang, hook me up with that kids number! I think you meant 25,000 dollars right?

 

No he said he would sell it to me for $2500. Cause I helped him find it, build it and get it running tough. But he is asking $7K otherwise. I am still thinking of selling both my 3rds to pay for it....

 

anything you do to a small motor will produce more power on a bigger motor. bottom line. no replacement for displacement

as for your friend. sure you can get a good buy once in a while. i have a friend that has this friend that knows this mechanic that has a daughter that has a top fuel dragster that runs 4's that i can get for $250

Andrew

 

LOL..i agree with andrew..But even if the caviler is fast..who would want to drive around in one?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by smokin87iroc
anything you do to a small motor will produce more power on a bigger motor. bottom line. no replacement for displacement

Yup.

as for your friend. sure you can get a good buy once in a while. i have a friend that has this friend that knows this mechanic that has a daughter that has a top fuel dragster that runs 4's that i can get for $250

LOL!!!! :sillylol:

I think it wasn't posted right though.

 

How can a turbo knock off at least 3s on a Cavalier?

 

LincolnHawk I like driving my Cavalier thank you! Plus that 30-35 mpg thing on the highway isn't to bad either. Man, if you only had a T-56

Mark, not just a turbo alone, but if you are going to put that much money into the Cavalier for the turbo, you will have some other things as well. But with the turbo, you can get down into the 13's, you just gotta do some other stuff as well!

 

Note to camaro_hunter.
The insurance deal you were talking about. When all these people take these small engined cars and put a turbo or blower on them, if they have an accident, and tha car is towed, and the insurance company sees the power adder. If they have not been informed, and been allowed to adjust their rates accordingly, the insurance in INVALID, and you had better at that time have a d**n good lawyer.
As for the canyon carving, the best handling 'stock' GM cars built were 3rd gen WS6 and IROC's. This has been hammered to death many times in the past.

Just speaking my mind

Cheers

Richard

 

The insurance company isn't going to buy you a new turbo if you wreck your car unless you get it added to your policy. But your insurance premium isn't going to raise because you have a turbo, because you aren't going to tell them and your insurance won't be voided if you have one unless they asked you and you lied. My wife wrecked the car and they didn't even come and look at it. They just told us the body shop to take it to and they sent them pictures of the damage, not the engine. If I had had a turbo and someone even noticed it ,I would be surprised. Now on the other hand if the car was all riced out they would probably tell the insurance company that you had one of those nawssed out F&F race cars!

 

The insurance company isn't going to buy you a new turbo if you wreck your car unless you get it added to your policy. But your insurance premium isn't going to raise because you have a turbo, because you aren't going to tell them and your insurance won't be voided if you have one unless they asked you and you lied. My wife wrecked the car and they didn't even come and look at it. They just told us the body shop to take it to and they sent them pictures of the damage, not the engine. If I had had a turbo and someone even noticed it ,I would be surprised. Now on the other hand if the car was all riced out they would probably tell the insurance company that you had one of those nawssed out F&F race cars! Look for mpg of 24city and 30hwy on the auto, which isn't that great.

 

^ up on soapbox

Well, here goes. I have several friends in the auto insurance business. Around here, many of the insurance companies have their own appraisers. They will not take the word of a body shop for damage to a car.
If they look, and see a power adder, and they have not been informed, they will void your coverage.
Why do you think a v8 powered f-body is more to insure than a v6 powered f-body.
With deaths due to street racing on the increase, this is becoming an issue quite rapidly.
With regard stereos and wheels this is not a problem, but anything which can drastically alter the performance of a vehicle, especially when it is above the factory laid out specifications, insurance / insurability becomes a big issue.
Technically, any time you alter a vehicle, you are required to inform the insurance company. None of us do, I am as guilty of this as everyone.
This may not be the issue where you live, or you may not think it is an issue, but if you get in a wreck, and its your fault, and you get an insurance co sponsored appraiser, dont be surprised if you get cancelled, it can be very expensive to re-establish insurance. If you dont believe it, ask some of my friends relegated to state sponsored insurance. (ouch)

V Down from soapbox

Cheers

Richard

 

p.s. what is nawssed ????????

 

If you don't know what nawwsed is watch the movie "the fast and furious" it is what they call a nitous oxide injection system, which is a power adder. 88gta305 you may be right but if they didn't ask about it and it is still a 4 cyl they shouldn't be able to deny a claim. If you change from one displacement engine to another then that would be changing what you told them you had and then they could deny it. If you specified 2.4 with no power adders then they would be justified.

 

Cool. Thanks, caught some of TF&TF at an airport one day, didnt like to see the charger get rolled. Thought it was interested how they wreck the car, roll the front wheels under the car, then it drives away ???
Where are the continuity guys when you need them?
BTW you got me, car is still insured as a 305
Cheers

Richard

 

It wasn't the charger that drove away, it was the 11-12 sec supra that kept up with the 10 sec charger that drove off. Simply a driver swap. There are a few inconsistances that i have issues with, but i'll stay off the soap box.

BTW, giovanhalen, its not nawwwsed, its NOSed as in the company NOS (nitros oxied systems, or some such thing).

As far as inusrance goes, it costs me less to insure an '85 z-28 than a '95 neon. go figure that one out.

 

Wow, alot of BS in this post.

 

just flat out having torque is not going to win the race

with my car I prolly did not even have all that much
also have a low amount of torque can be made up by having a light car, gearing that will match your powerband, as well as having a lower number gear in the rear

like lets say a F1 car putting out lets say a peak of 900 hp at 18,000 rpms. well if it is just torque that would win a race you would take him out b/c at the hp I put forth he only puts out 262.2 lb/tqbut you know the gear ratio those things run and how light they are? yes I know we will never race one but you you should still get the idea
my car in N/A form can pull out a lot of 15.1-15.4 runs
how much torque do I put out
maybe 150 lb/ft so even your LG4 cars put out more torque per lb they have on there car but I run better times. why? look above.

and in turbo form I would not be shocked if I was pulling around 250 lb/ft of torque if even and the car was pulling 12.5 on the gtech with me not knowing how to launch the car and still not having it tuned right so not always torque

and also as for the no replacement for displacement

you dont really know how tired I am of hearing that
what if I say no replacement for more boost?
who is right now
you can add more cubes, while I can add more boost.
so you say you can add boost to your car right? well how about I add more gear to mine now and build my motor to stay in the higher revs. or reduce the weight of my car
yes you can do all these things also. but there are other things that can replace displacement


just my .02

 

you still don't get it.
ANYTHING YOU DO TO A SMALLER DISPLACEMENT CAR WILL MAKE MORE POWER ON A LARGER DISPLACEMENT CAR! that includes boost, nitrous oxide, reducing weight, etc.
you can substitute for displacement but you can't replace it!!!!!!
if you could just put a big turbo on it why would your F1 cars have v8's? why not just stick a huge turbo on a 4 cyl? because there are good benifits by getting extra cylinders and more ci's!

as for the torque doesn't win races, yes it does. horsepower is a made up idea so more specifically high torque at a high rpm will win races. also its hard to make up a good jump at the line. you may have 30 more peak hp that someone but they may have 30 more peak torque than you and they can jump you off the line and you may be able to reel them back in but it may take longer than a 1/4 mile to reel them in. so if you can get the jump you have a better chance unless the person you are racing has way more hp than you.

again i will state that i'm not saying a cavileer can't go fast or any smaller displacement engine. i'm saying that if both cars have the exact same mods (turbo, nos, less weight) the larger displacement will win.
Andrew

 

It won't affect the quarter mile but my 98 Cav only runs 107mph then the speed limiter kicks in. Is there a way to get rid of the top speed limiter? Smokin87iroc CART used 4cyl turbo cars up until this year. They are changing because the V8 naturally aspirated engines are cheaper. Nobody should believe they can make more power with a smaller displacement engine, but V8 engined new cars aren't cheaper than 4 cyl. cars and use more gas and have higher insurance. That is why a person would get one put on a turbo and still run with most V8 cars. Drag racing only cars is another story the V8 is still the cheapest way to go fast.

 

just trying to say that displacement is not the all mighty in racing
anything you can do to a car with less displacement yes you can do to better to a car with more displacement. but then again you can also get the same results with a car that is a lot lighter. anything you do helps adding cubes or whatever else you want
I'm just tired of hearing that only way to make real power is by getting a larger motor.
even displacement can be replaced. it's just all in how the person wants to build up the motor. some ppl pick more cubes, others like to build up with power adders, others like to work with the gearing. all on how you want to build it.

then explain to me why when I race a thirdgen camaro that puts out more torque then me at least 100 lbs/ft more (this is when I was N/A) and they would not jump out ahead of me. gearing is a part of that. the car I drive has good gearing in it. and that gearing is helping to make up for my small lack of torque.
there are many other things that will decide who will win a race as in traction, driver, gearing, power, as well as many other things so I wouldn't just list one thing and say ok that is all there is to win a race.
as for peak power that means **** to me. high numbers are good dont get me wrong here but to me it would be better to have a flat power curve were you are making good power through the rpm range based on your gearing. like for me shifting at 7600 rpms will put me down at about 4000 rpms if I remember right
I would rather make 150 lb/ft through that entire rpm range then 200 lb/ft from 6000 to 7600 rpms cause most the time I would be out of my powerband




as for this yes I agree for the most part all else being equal the one with more displacement will win
but only if everything else is equal.


now come on man lighten up. you should know by now not here to cause problems just having fun learning your cars and helping out when I can