84CamroHO

Ok, I have a friend who owns a 95 Acura Integra GS-R coupe. The only current modification that he has is a cold air intake... and he is planning on putting in heades and a fart pipe. We are going to race once it starts to warm up. He claims that his car wil have well over 200hp by the time we race. His car also only weighs 2662 and he also has a 5spd. I on the other hand have a 1984 Camaro Z28 H.O. with these modifications: Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifold, Webber carburator, Edelbrock Headers, and an aftermarket exhuast with a High flow muffler. Who do you think will win as we stand? Also how much horsepower do you think I have? I will really apperciate any input.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna say u, but I don't know what those cars came with stock or what he is doing to his so....

84CamroHO

stock those 4 bangers have 170hp now he says that his cold air intake adds about 20hp so he is at about 190hp right now and he is going to put on headers and a fart pipe. I dunno how much the fart pipe and headers will add. I also think that he is bs-ing about how much hp the intake adds.

Camaro_hunter_d

Well I sell this stuff. The headers add roughly 20 HP, Exhaust roughly another 15-17Hp and those HP #'s are equal in trq. And yes that Intake does add 20+ HP. So he will/has bolted on about 60 HP. Send him to me for the headers, I can get them cheaper then the Big companies. I have DC headers that start at 282. If he decides to get cam gears, fuel rail and AFPR your in serious trouble. As the car will stand with these mods, it should be close.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Dude, your gonna win.

84CamroHO

Well how much should my 305 put out in hp. I mean stock they have 190hp and 240 trq. I have Headers, Edelbrock performer Intake, Webber Carb, and total aftermarket exhuast with highflow muffler, what do I have for power? I am thinking I will just do Heads and Cam to make sure that I win.

5.0mustang

How does a header, cat back, and a cold air kit (usually what they mean by intake) add 60 hp. I have a cam, headers, cat back and I'd be happy with 20 hp. Thats about a 35 % increase over stock, seems to be a little much.

Oh ya, stock those things run from about 15.2-15.6 depending on all the variables. With his mods I'd say its good for 14.8-15.4.

84CamroHO

What does the 84 H.O run stock, I read somewhere that it ran a 15.01 quarter but I wasn't sure if it was BS.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, you had 190HP and 240TQ when your car was stock. The 305 H.O.'s run around mid 15's stock and are good engines. Some dude here with the same car and 5-Speed went 14.5 at 95MPH with modded converter, fan switch, pullies, and tweaked Qjet.

Camaro_hunter_d

How? Its dyno proven. They add that much. Small import 4 bangers respond extremely well to mods of any kind.

The same reason that a 227 HP WRX goes to over 250 AT THE WHEELS W/headers, exhaust and intake. Stock they have 190 at the wheels.

curt86iroc

wow, i wish i got 60 extra horses with my intake, headers and exhaust! im not doubting Camaro_hunter as im not up on my imports, but that does seem kinds high. on another note, i take the 305 HO in the quarter and a very close race on the highway. those VTEC's can move on open road but they have nothing down low.

Camaro_hunter_d

If you want i can upload the Dyno sheets that I have. I get these from my distrib as a major selling point. Why not? spend 150 bucks on an intake and get 17 HP, 300 on headers and get 20+.

BloodRedDragon

Those gains are all above 6000 rpm, though, aren't they? And isn't the redline like 8500 rpm on a GS-R?

Camaro_hunter_d

Most of the gains are started around 2800 actually. The V-Tec has a 7500-8K Red line to protect the accessories only. If he has a good clutch to keep the revs up, your in serious trouble IMO.

84CamroHO

But with heads and cam I will be sure to beat him?

curt86iroc

without a doubt

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I think u will without them.

ChillPhatCat

I have to call some serious here... I am a member on the Honda board (hondahookup.com) since my secondary vehicle is one and my first two cars were also... NONE of the Honda guys will tell you that those mods make more than 35 total Hp... here is the breakdown they claim (the actual Honda/Acura guys)...

CAI = 3-5 Hp
Headers = 5-10 Hp
Exhaust = 5-10 Hp

Usually those figures are on the low side.

I mean seriously, where are the physics that say you'll get 60 Hp out of thin air like that? 230 Hp out of a slightly modified Acura?

ROFL :lala:

go on over to: http://www.hondahookup.com and ask them

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

LOL, yup I agree.

mss

dont you mean header ? and also , no way in hell an intake , and exhaust work is going to net 60hp . i will refer you to someone who knows what they are talking about that will tell you the same damn thing . by the way he OWNED and modded a gsr and will tell you , there isnt a chance that your getting 60gp 60ft lbs of tourque with the mods you listed . and as far as it being dyno tested ,

tpivette89

i think that 60 hp is a little in the BS side. i always thought that honda engines were made efficient from the factory, and that while modding them will provide power gains, 60 hp? come on! thats a little on the high side. i think that those mods will produce 30hp to a total of 200. manufacturers always claim higher than average, for example most airfoils claim hp increases by about 15. We all know thats just not true. you mentioned the WRX power increases significantly with mods, could that be because its a turbo car and they respond a whole lot better that N/A cars? The 305 HO has alot more torque, and will launch better, and while the acura will have high rpm power on its side, a 305 HO with upgraded intake, carb, and full exaust will most definatly outperform the GSR. In short, i predict the acura to be in the low 15s to 15 flat, and the HO in the mid 14s. You will win.

costill91Z

ok, im no expert, but i actually drive an import car, and the power numbers that are given on the i/h/e combos are MAX gains (you will only see these kind of gains if you have a turbo or s/c.
from my knowledge and driving of one, gsr's are pretty quick, id say that, if he can drive, then he would prolly hit a 14.7-14.9.
the intake sys. adds the most power on those, giving you about 7-8 wheel hp. the header doesn't give much, most hondas already come with a pretty decent factory 4-2-1 header. gains from that would be about 3-5 to the wheels, and the exhaust is the same, the factory sys. is well designed, and a cat-back exhaust will only add about 3-5 wheel hp.
with all of these mods, he's looking at about 15 hp max.
i know this b/c honda tuner mag did an article using a civic ex w/ the same mods and they dyno'd it after each. (the ex, however uses a smaller (1.6) and less potent single cam vtec version of the 1.8 dohc vtec) the ex gained about 10 hp to the wheels after the mods. so factor in the displacement and breathing advantages, plus if he uses the best after market parts, he'll get about 15 or so

hope this helps

costill91Z

edit: the 14.7-14.9 are times w/ mods and a good driver, who knows you have to wind the he11 out of those motors

know_bull88

I raced a guy with a gs-r when I first got my 84 H.O. and all I had was a cat back and a shift kit, 1st run he ran a 15.0 I ran a 15.1 2nd run he ran a 15.3 I ran a 14.9. He claimed that he didn't get a good launch. But I figured the trick is that my car had him through the start but his top end is what ran me down. so if you think about it when you are behind someone you will try your hardest to catch them, this invites mistakes which with and inexperianced 5spd driver tips the scales in you favor. by the way after I did my mods We raced and I dont know what he did but he ran a 13.9 (juiced) I think And I ran 12.8

Camaro_hunter_d

What I posted is the number I get from the manufaturers. PERIOD. I do not, nor have ever owned a Honda. I go by what the manufacturer tells/gives me. If I see a dyno sheet print out saying stock 180, and another with header added and the number is 20 HP more, quess what? It added 20 HP. Its as basic as that. I do not go out and ask every honda owner I see what does this do on your car. They come to me with questions on estimated HP gain, I show/email them the Dyno sheet. Its as basic as that.

AEM/DC Sports have CAI kits that They claim to add 17+ HP, so quess what I tell people? they say it adds this much HP. I see the results from the dyno sheet showing a 17+ HP gain, thats what it adds.

Header(s) are the same way. Exhaust systems are the same way. Cam gears, fuel rails, and flywheels are also the same way. I post/tell people asking what the gains are according to the manufacturer of the product.

Go ahead and call all you want, I post what the manufacturer says, and publishes.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Manufactururer specs are usually

ChillPhatCat

Camaro_Hunter I don't wish animosity between us here, my post may have slightly flamed you, but I would suggest being a little more honest in business practices. You may get a good ***-kicking when all those punk *** kids come back from a $100 dyno run and they've netted 15 Hp after $700 in mods. I only say what I've heard from the people that drive these cars... I'd say those average results are much more acurate.

costill91Z

like i said, the gains are always posted as: : "up to x amount of hp gain. if the manufacturer wants to sell its product, then they need dyno proven power, but what car are they gonna use? for those kind of gains, they aren't using a stock car. this is how the manufacturers are deceiving. sure you can get 17+ hp out of your cold air intake, but only if you have forced induction.
i have an "aem" cold air intake on my civic, but there's no way im getting 17+ extra horses. now if i added a turbo kit, then i would probably get that number.
im not saying im an expert, but this is what i've seen so far out of my car and friends cars when adding mods

camaro hunter, im not calling on you, im just saying that these " dyno-proven" results are most likely misleading, b/c these results can't be on stock cars, or can't be on honda products. it is very difficult to gain serious hp from late-model honda products, b/c the oe parts are designed fairly well.

as far as this race: if its on the highway, my bet is the gs-r (and this is not b/c i drive an import either-so don't flame me ) the gsr comes alive at like 5800 rpm and holds strong all the way to the 8000 rpm redline. (also 95 was rated the fastest of the 94-01 body style- )

and if its at the track, or from a stop, the 84ho will take the jump, since the gsr has no low end. if you add the cam and heads like you asked, you should take him in both races, but w/o the heads and cam, this one should be close.
remember the weight and power of both
gsr stock: 170 hp and 2500 lbs (i think)
84 ho stock: 190 hp and 3400 lbs (i think)

TriGenRS

Aftermarket Manufacturers pre- tweak their engines specifically for big gains. This is not just on the import side but the most of the aftermarket community. Look at edelbrock, they show cam gains of (insert number) then there is a little side note saying something like "with aluminum heads, cam, headers, manifold... blah blah. Or "when used on a "Blueprinted BB502" for some other aftermarket mfr. Some even put the crappiest parts to get bad numbers just so their part will yeild more gains when they replace those parts with theirs.. You get the point.

If any engine could get gains like that...it should be the v8's rather than the i4's. Im not saying we're better..but we just have more potential.

I think that the total HP gain for the GSR would be 10-15.

tpivette89

84CamaroHO, what part # is your edelbrock intake. i am looking at buying one on ebay, and was wondering if its the same one. I think the same manifold will fit on both the 84 LG4 an L69. Just want to make sure itll work.

cort351w

Doesn't it sound funny to put a header on a car?