anybody got any tips for passing a e test Friday is the big day

 

Some of these things you might have already done but:

- oil change
- basic tune-up (plugs, wires)
- Sunoco 91 (94 probably wouldn't be necessary)
- run some carb cleaner spray through
- make sure the car is at proper operating temperature when it gets tested (most important)

 

Hey Paul. I work at a used car dealership and we E test cars daily. #1 like said fresh oil #2 Highest octane fuel u can find. #3 A good long run before you appointment GET IT HOT!#4Depending on the trans 3spd or 4 , just as you are almost at the Etest place drive in 2nd gear at about 3500Rpm ,cleans that last bit of gunk out. Your car is carb right. If so mist...I mean MIST a LITTLE! bit of water SLOWLY into carb...Slowly a mist...be careful. Hope these help you? Works for me almost all the time.

 

Either that...or make sure to take an extra 50 with ya.

 

The higher the octane the better, in particular Sunoco 94 burns cleanest outta a survey done a few years back on who had the cleanest gas in Ontario with Esso ranking last. Do all the things said prior although the one that got me at my last test was a hot hot run with cat flash (which if not done gets you double the hydrocarbon I was allowed).

 

1. What is "cat flash" or should that be "cat flush" and where do you get it.

2. When do you do this misting into the carb - just before the test ? and how long do you do it for. Also, what does misting do.

3. There's some stuff at Crappy Tyre called Guaranteed to Pass - gotta be snake oil I know - like it's not going to decarbon the EGR passages but if your car is marginal would it help. I guess that last one's a rhetorical question or just a plain stupid question. Snake Oil.

 

Cat flash is the temperature at which the catalytic converter begins a self sustaining catalytic reaction. The reaction is basically hydrocarbons broken down into its elements carbon and hydrogen by one catalyst and then another catalyst platinum usually allows CO2 and H2O to be formed without having to be at the combustion temperatures and energies needed to form those reactants. Usually air tubes feed the cat with air simply to give it the necessary oxygen needed.

If you could read the temperatures of the exhaust system, you'd find on average the headers to y-pipe around 200-300 degrees with the cat at 500+ degrees when it is active.

The guaranteed to pass additive I think is either a catalyst or something that affects PCV emissions in the engine not sure, but I know as long as you know your cat is good and properly setup AND has flashed over you can pass ok. Hence why people recommend a good hard long run to get the car hot prior to the test.

 

<sigh> My lil Jimmy failed it's e-test today. CO% and NO ppm are surprisingly good, but the HC ppm is another story. At 1337 revs it read a 189 ppm, compared to the limit of 120 ppm, and at idle it read 583 ppm (ouch) with a limit of 200 ppm. Oh well, at least I have a few weeks left to get it retested...

 

The thing about HC is it's unburned fuel... make the engine more efficient.. better spark, new plugs wires, coil, cap etc and you have the potential to increase CO readings...

 

No cat flush in a can - dam - just the kind of thing you'd expect to find at Crappy Tyre.

 

Sorry no cat flush stuff, then again, running the engine hard is a good way of flushing crap out of the cat.

 

Why is everyone going "rah rah" with higher octane gas???


Unless you are running just at the ragged edge of preignition- higher octane fuels will actually cause more grief than good- think about this:

Higher octane content (molecules) inhibits the fuel's burn rate (i.e. slows it down)- so if you are not running very close to the preignition point with whatever octane you use in this engine for the purpose of an emissions test- you will actually slow the burn rate down and release MORE raw HCs into the exhaust. I.e. you will increase the likelihood of an incomplete burn.

IF you have a TPI or TBI setup and the timing has not been artificially advanced beyond specs (i.e. re-set to be far above normal advance levels with ECM in diagnostic mode)- the we could argue that maybe the higher octane would have a very slight beneficial effect assuming all other emissions controls/devices are working properly.

Use the octane level of the gas you have had the engine tuned for- i.e. if you setup everything to be used with 89 octane- use 89 octane for the e-test unless you want to re-tune specifically for the e-test with the new, higher octane fuel.

If I were to be a real smarta$$- I would actually say tune your engine for use with 87 octane (if possible depending on the engine in question) and load the tank full of gas you bought sometime between November and February (much much higher Reid Vapour Pressure- i.e. it's propensity to ignite and/or evaporate outright is greater) you will be sure to keep CO and HC levels down- then it will all just be a matter of making sure the NOX level is not too high- which some slight timing and mixture adjustments along with a properly functioning EGR should take care of.

Frankly- this whole e-test bit is a balancing game. Get the initial test done, and if you fail come back for suggestions on what to do to re-tune the balance to get a passable result.


Beyond that, Suncor fuels (Sunoco and Pioneer) have the highest methanol contents (usually very close to 10% but this is variable) and lower sulphur levels- as people have mentioned.

Also- as previously mentioned- you want the cat to be at its flash point- usually 300-400 degrees depending on the particular unit in question. SO- drive the car up and down the highway for 20 minutes right before the test and keep the engine idling until it's driven on the dyno. If you arrive and they say "park it there and we'll get to it later" explain to them to want to drive up and on the dyno the minute you arrive at the shop. If the cars sits with the engine off for more than about 15 minutes- the cat will fall below its flash point and a new warmup cycle will have to be done.

 

dude,

the best thing to do..if you think shes gonna fail...find a shop that you know of that will do a phoney one or at least help you out a bit..cuz everyone knows that our cars run really stinky..but hey thats the price we pay for having sexy ladies right!! (the $50 dollar thing was close make it a $100 and youre safer!!)

iroc2nv

 

I for one am quite for the e-test and its intentions. I have a sister who suffers from asthma and I personally have battled from 2 seperate bouts with pneunomia which has left me with lungs that function at half the efficiency of a person my age. Air quality is important to me and as stated and agreed upon sunoco sunocor or whatever you want to call them, has been rated officially as the cleanest available in ontario. My car has been tuned to 94 octane gas, and for carbs, higher octane is actually better as I recall from people who suffered from vapor lock issues. The 94 octane has 10-15% methanol which as an alcohol base gives off a good amount of energy per capita and since its an alcohol adds its own oxygen to the mix. (H6C2O contains 6 hydrogen 2 carbon and 1 oxygen) So that will result in a cleaner burning fuel. Sulfer count is measured on average to be <100 parts per million which blows the numbers off against all other fuels.

My results last year as opposed to 3 years ago had less than half the limit allowed on my car and was 50% better than the first e-test I did. The first test actually had a full tune up, oil change done where the second test had only an oil change and the same parts from the last e-test so that is a testament to the minor car work I did and the gas.

 

Actually I'm all for the emissions tests too. I mean, why not? I nag the people at work about smoking all the time. Letting my truck pollute like this would kind of make me a hypocryte. As long as we all have to do it I see no problems with it. And this is coming from a guy who's going to have to shell out up to $450 to get my stickers renewed on my Jimmy...

When I got it tested they too said the high HC is usually due to unburned fuel in the exhaust. I've also been told that a bad oxygen sensor could play a part. It's been behaving like it has a vacuum leak since I got it (even after I replaced a TBI gasket with a large chunk missing) so this is just a good opportunity to get him running well.

 

Theoretically- perhaps emission testing is not such a bad idea. HOWEVER- they really are very few gross polluters out there.

Here's some thoughts for everyone:

Cars pollute the most when the sit and idle- anyone around Toronto knows that the average drive to work in the morning usually involves more sitting and idling that actual driving (i.e. ANY of the 400 series highways during rush-hour and MOST local roads).

At the same time "DriveClean" was first implemented in Ontario (Phase 1)- industrial pollution restrictions were either outright removed or relaxed, depending on the industry/activity. The previous Ontario NDP government was pretty hard on industry for pollution (i.e. as one example, the incineration ban in Ontario- excluding a few very specific sites)- all removed by the PC government. (This is not a political commentary- I voted PC in the last 2 elections (won't do it again)- just a statement of the facts).

SO: reductions in industrial pollution accomplished previous to 1995 have, for all intents and purposes, been shifted from industry to vehicles- at yours and my expense as Ontario drivers.

-The ongoing lack of ability/desire of the Ontario governments (all for the last 30 years) at not building proper roads in/around the GTA has significantly helped pollution levels climb due to excessive traffic buildup/issues. New road construction has been SO far off from the growth in population and vehicles it is absolutely disgusting (this is also a federal and municipal issue- but the province is the primary collector of vehicle related taxes). I have not included the 407 ETR as it is a farce and a joke on the Ontario taxpayer and drivers paying to use it (and is also clogged during rush hour periods in/around Toronto area).


That being said, noticeable gross polluters- i.e. the 'oil burners' with visible emissions driving on the road have always been subject to having their registration yanked by the police and MOT- however, apparently no one had much of a desire to actually do anything about it previously- and now they can still ignore these vehicles on the road by saying "DriveClean will take them off the road next time they are required to take an emissions test"- which is not entirely the case- the $450.00 cap on emissions-related repairs exists AND if, at the discretion of the test/repair facility, a vehicle will not have any significant reduction in emissions unless more than the $450.00 'cap' is spent- a conditional pass can be issued without spending a dime (go read the DriveClean Standard Operating Procedure manual for driveclean test/repair facilities)- as an interesting side-note- I recently discovered the owner of one of the dozen or so industry advisor repair shops on the DriveClean 'board' plays ball on my team in a rec. league. My point- if you do not have the resources to verify my facts- they have been researched and confirmed.


Also- don't get too hung up on the alcohol content in gasoline. #1- the CGSB guidelines for oil companies/refineries (the 'law' they must follow) only allows for a MAXIMUM of 10% alcohol content- the statement about having "10-15% alcohol" is flat-out incorrect and illegal- and will also invalidate new car warranties if used. Anyone here familiar with alcohol racing? Alcohol is extremely acidic and if the level gets too high in gasoline, fuel system degradation (i.e. disintegration of parts) is accelerated significantly. Ever stand near the exhaust stream of an alcohol-burner? Did you leave with your nose hairs still intact? It pollutes as well- just not raw HCs, CO and NOX- the gases being tested for in DriveClean. Don't believe me? Contact the CGSB and read the front of the gas pump at Sunoco- it says right on it "MAY contain UP TO 10% methanol."

Fact is, for a normal "consumer" with a light-duty/passenger vehicle, DriveClean is pretty much irrelevant- you can keep an oil-burning POS on the road (as mentioned). It is a 'feel-good' government program and helped shield the relaxed industrial pollution controls as well as let the government ignore the absolutely miserable road system we have in the GTA. If everyone weren't uptight about DriveClean- people would have started bitching about the roads 5 years ago and forced some action.

Statistical "proof" DriveClean "works"- hey- you tell me whether or not most government produced statistics are worth the paper they're printed on. Quite a number of US states (Florida comes to mind) have relaxed their pollution test standards due to their statistics stating it had a negligible effect at the end of the day.

 

Here, here at least some one has their brain in gear.

Trouble is the hwy's around Toronto were planned in the late 40's in a different era. Don't think they ever dreamed it would be as populated as it is today.

Maybe you or some one like you with a thinking mind can run for Mayor of TO., or Premier of Ont. and fix it.

A mobile campain to weed out gross polluters by road side testing, makeing the drivers aware of the problem with their car and giving them a chance to correct it,, on the hwys and streets would do far more for the environment for a lot less cost over all.
Just like the MTO does with trucks. Drive Clean should be scrapped.

Can't compare the radical fuel spitting, eye burning idle if a alcohol funny car
motor with a electronic fuel injected Methanol or Ethanol Ford Crown Vic.
Why is there only one Methanol pump ( point of purchase)
in all Ontario { Somewhere way up north}. Simple, no tax revenue.

 

Regardless of the other polluters, e-testing our cars certainly couldn't hurt. There's all sorts of massive industrial wastes every day, does that mean we shouldn't bother recycling? Granted there are far worse polluters that should be dealt with first, but I see no reason why I should make matters worse.

 

It makes matters worse because it allows our grossly incompetant and criminally negligent government to give the appearence of having done something about pollution while the so called everyday industrial polluters carry on unhindered.

 

There's also one thing about the pollution here that really gets on my nerves. 70% of it isn't generated in the GTA area. Actually according to some studies... our air.. our southern ontario air is being polluted from the states. The cities in southern ontario sure do contribute, but the sad part is the pollution you get isn't necessarily created by you. The only exception according to the study is Hamilton which is a major pollution creator, no offense to Hamilton just a fact.

Driveclean has good intentions, just bad implementation I think. Cops do blitz on people here in Toronto for nasty exhaust. Seen quite a few pulled over since with traffic here speeding is a non issue a lot of the time lol.

Comparing pure alcohol based engines to fuel injected cars is not the same. Those engines are designed to make the most power, not be the most efficient. Imagine if they ran reg gas.. that'd be even worse. Here's the diff in chemical structure of the fuels. I'm an ex-chemical engineer so bear with me. Remember methanol vs octane methanol indicates an alcohol chain with meth indicating H62CO, 2 Carbon atoms with 6 hydrogen and 1 oxygen. That's it in methaol gas that's all there is. Octane indicates a whole different structure. Octanes are made entirely of straight chain alkanes. Alkanes have no oxygen in it. 2,2,4 tri methylpentane composes the high end of gas, burns clean with the least amount of knock. Heptane is the worst burning, causing lots of knock rated at 0 on the octane scale. There are many other alkanes in there too rated b/w 0 and 100. Its the combination of these alkanes which give it its octane number. Closer to 0 and more likely to do these things, vaporise easily, ignite easily etc. closer to 100 and more likely to burn evenly, less tendency to easily vaporise. Since we're dealing with fossil fuels another matter also rears its ugly head. Chemicals that aren't even combustible at normal temps. That includes sulfer, and aromatic hydrocarbons. Things that won't burn unless 2 conditions 1 or the other are satisfied. High temperatures or a catalyst. Benzene, which is poison to people in high doses (detected as a hydrocarbon in the e-test) will not break down unless platinum or rhodium is present hence why those elements exist in a cat. Sulfur will not cobust into SO2 unless high temps like 6000+ degrees exist, hence the function of the EGR to keep combustion temps at around 5000 degrees. At 7000degrees NOx forms. Normally inert nitrogen will combust at 7000 degrees hence the need for an EGR to keep temps in check. My girlfriend actually designs o2 sensors and is researching better ways to make them and more sensitive.

So with this info here's the sum of it. The higher the octane, the less of the bad crap is there. Everything affects octane levels, so can't have high sulfur/aromatics and still have 94 octane rating. Comparison of my e-tests have shown a lot less hc count when I used the 94 octane. Methanol in small doses is good since it burns clean under ideal circumstances, tuned car, and does not affect the octane rating adversly.

 

Some of you guys seem to be really knowledgeable about this emissions stuff so I hope you don't mind me asking questions, even thought it's not a 3rd gen F body. I gotta get this van done before I can start the firebird. I had my 87 Dodge Mini van test today and got the following readings.

..............................ASM2525 Test....................Curb Idle

..............Limit.......Reading......Result...........Limit.....reading...result
HC ppm...140.........40.............pass.............300.......93...........pass
CO%.......1.00........0.01..........pass.............1.50.....0.00.........pass
NO ppm..1606.......2951.........fail.................N/A......N/A...........N/A




...RPM.....2847....Valid...............................RPM.......1093......Valid
...Dilution...12.0....Valid..............................Dilution...9.1.......Valid

My van has a 2.2, and is carburated. Recent new rad, water pump, air pump, and I had to rebuild the carb because of other problems unrelated to the emissions testing. What would cause the NO ppm to be so high? Could it be a bad EGR valve? I have'nt paid the 100$ dianostic fee yet, because that requires a second appointment, but I'd rather try and fix the problem, before getting gouged any more. The van was driven on the hwy in order to get to the garage, and I kept it running while waiting (about 15 min). I also changd the oil in it yeasterday. Thanks for any help or advice you guys can give me.

P.S. On the emissions Control Systems Inspection, It failed the on the Thermostatic Air Cleaner System, because the heat riser sheild is gone. Would the heat riser really affect the test that much?

 

On a car that showed a high NOX reading the EGR system is the first place to look. Check the Exhaust heat riser system cause
that is the source of the exhaust gas for egr.

Also look for over advanced ignition timing.