I got a $325 Careless driving ticket..I know it was my fault but the officer said to go plead "Guilty with an explanation" and he is almost certain that it will be reduced..Its also 6 points..Its my first ticket in 3 yrs..Last one was speeding and was clean 5 yrs before that..HAve many before though ..The question is what explanation..Im hoping for no demerit points and reduction in fine...Any ideas

Daz

 

Wow, 6pts. Not sure if they give community service in Canada like in the US, but that may be one way out.

 

All I can say is.. where'd Mark come from all of the sudden lol?

Daz, try to set up a meeting with the prosecutor or something, he/she may be able to strike up some kind of reduced sentence ahead of time. They unlike the cops are more easier to work with. You could on the other hand try something like x-copper or to that effect.. all those firms are just ex cops that convince their old force buddies not to show up in court lol...

 

I moved to Canada. lol, jk. Nah, someone linked this board the other day so I've been checkin back on things.

I hear whorin gets more $ up there.

 

lol...whattaya do...?

 

dumb me.

 

NAh,I tried POINTTS before..(3 driing under suspension charges,3 careless driving,1 no stopping,2 racing...)Theyre all scams..What I did before was just pleaded guilty and any kind of explanation..THe difference is I since have a clean record..I talk to the crown attorney if I want to make a deal..But all my careless driving charges were in combo with a driving under suspension so Im always required to make a plea and the reduction when plead guilty are always minimal cause of my record and the accompanying charge..$8000 couldve got me some nice mods..lolol

Daz

 

I meant what did Daz do to get the ticket.

 

oh, sorry I'm just a dumb american cracker.

 

I deal with the car dealerships/owners down there daily on the phones at GM...I feel sorry for you guys.

"Safety recall...? Don't we make any money off of this...?!"

 

I was doing about 220 on the QEW (late for an appointment)then I saw this cop in a bike coming from brownsline..I tried to slow down and change lane (to get off Kipling)..and thats what he said he nailed me for..Changing lanes too fast..I did 3 lanes in one motion while trying to slow down..I was signalling and looking at my blind spot the whole time..He said that its not me thats the problem but the other people..they might be see me changing lanes too fast that they might panic and slam on the brakes..He asked me if I know what I did wrong and I said yes..

Daz

 

Should have told him your wife was going into labour

 

yup and Im trying to exit..****..youre right...thats my problem though..I cant lie..Im rude and tactless but thats about it..

Daz

 

I got hit for careless shortly after I bought my TA back in 87. I passed an idiot who was lost and he decided to make a left as I was going by. The OPP cop took one look at me and my car and decided that it was my fault.

I hired a lawyer for the traffic court and got it reduced to improper passing - cost me $750 for legal fees and whatever the fine was plus 3 points. We had to drive down to Port Dover or somewhere for the court so he did'nt over charge me.

This was before no-fault. After the insurance law suit was done with I was found to be 25% at fault. What that means is that I was not at fault but the 25% was merely a settlement figure because it would have cost that much or more to defend it any further.

You have to get this reduced otherwise your insurance will put you out of business. I don't do this kind of work; however, I would not suggest that you go to court unrepresented. You might get away with it but the odds are somewhat less in your favour if you go that route.

It also depends on what it was that you did to get charged with careless. The courts take a harder look at careless driving charges as opposed to speeding where they tend to just convict you and boot your a$$ out the door. So what I'm saying is that if you've got a defense you want to make sure it's properly presented.

As for paralegals - points etc. - I have no experience with them in this area of law but generallly I havn't heard anything good about them. Anytime someone is represented by a paralegal on a civil matter I usually pi$$ all over them.

The Law Society Referral Service will provide you with the names of some lawyers who specialize in this stuff. Part of the referral deal is that they give you a free half hour consultation. So it's worth doing that at least.

Someone on our board got nailed for speeding not that long ago and I think he did OK going to court by himself. Careless might be another matter so I'm suggesting you look around a bit before following that cops advice.

Also, I think it's going to cost more than $750 for legal fees but if you get convicted on this you're f'cked for a long time.

Finally, I don't exist so don't listen to anything I say.

Good Luck.

 

Oh well.. what I did at my last ticket was talk to the crown prosecutor or whatever you call them... I told her my situation, why I may have been exceeding the limit... all the fun excuses.. anyways lucky she was a woman, appealed to her motherly side or whatever and managed to get a 160 in 90 zone reduced to 110 in 90... phew... either way insurance had a field day with my rates lol...

 

Having now seen the other posts on this it sounds like you should have been charged with making an improper lane change but the cop was being a POS about it. You might get it reduced if you show up alone and remember not to be rude and tactless.

 

I got pulled over for doing 125 in an 80km/h zone once. The officer asked me if I knew how fast I was going and I said that I hadn't realized and I was really sorry and batted my eyelashes a little.. He knocked it down to 10 over and gave me a warning. Gotta love being a girl!

 

Do a search... I posted a little while ago about how to handle these situations. I still owe the government around $700 from my last run in.

 

with a slow car

 

Nthing beats my 120+km (EASILY +...like, 130, etc.) in a 50 down through Whitby...ikes....no ticket, no anything...3 cruisers at once, though....scared me to death.

 

I got a $325 ticket in TN for speeding (85 in a 45) so I went to court and told the judge I didnt mind paying the ticket but didnt want any points on my licence, he let me off all I had to pay was $230 in court costs

oh and I was only 16 driving a T/A after leaving a party ( had like a half a beer before I left to go get my friend to take him back to the party)

 

I think a point has been missed here:

Obviously the officer must have known/thought you were speeding- but has no way to prove it- if he was just entering the highway (on a bike no less) he obviously did not have radar in operation. As such he had to come up with some BS to justify the ticket.

If you did not admit you were speeding just that you 'might' have made an improper lane change (or two)- I would suggest it would be pretty tough to make the 'careless' charge stick. Get a lawyer and at the very least get it knocked down to an improper lane change (i.e. $110 bucks and 3 points). If you didn't cause an accident and there are no witnesses other than the officer in question- the careless charge won't stick if you get represented properly and you didn't stupidly admit to, or agree with, statements made by the officer at the scene.

Most traffic violations not confirmed by technology (i.e. laser/radar or photo) or more than one officer or other witnesses have a tough time holding up if you don't admit your guilt right off at the scene. Why do you think the first question every cop asks when you're pulled over is "Do you know what you were doing?" -they want you to directly admit your guilt by saying "well officer I guess I was going a bit fast/cut off that guy/didn't stop at the light/etc. etc...".

 

Eric,I know about this thats why I didnt mention to him what I know I was doing..I just apologized and said that Im late for work(I guess this meant speeding).. He did say .." not everybody can drive like you do,the problem is if they see you changing lanes that fast they usually slam on brakes and thats when accidents happen"..I admit that I did something wron but I didnt specify it..He did say to take the ticket to court so they can reduce it.

Daz

 

I went there to plea"Guilty with an explanation"but I was told that the 6 points would stay..So I just asked for a trial and then plead guilty then,explained what happened and ask for a lower charge..

Daz

 

Um, Daz, did I read that right? You've been down this road before. you're ging to have some pretty significant credibility issues. let me try and demystify some of this...(and please don't shoot the messenger, but you've hit on a subject I happen to know a little bit about)

#1-Cops don't require laser/radar evidence to lay a charge of Careless Driving (and make it stick)

#2-the cops that ride motorcycles are Traffic cops...they have their **** together when it comes to laying these types of charges...this does not translate into a good thing for you

#3-Never say anything at the time like "I'm late for work." I can pretty much guarantee you the officer wrote that down in his evidence. You might as well have said "I was doing this on purpose because I have more money than brains and I need a ticket to help create the symmetry my life is so desperately
lacking right now."

#4-Just what in the Hell gave you the notion that you could possibly have been justified in going 220kph in a 100kph zone? I'm sorry, but I can't say I have much sympathy for you. That's just not smart. The court's gonna hose you, then your insurance company's gonna sell the footage on eBay!

#5-Pray that the cop doesn't show up on your court date (although he/she probably has 5 or 6 other matters scheduled for the same day and likely won't blow them all off.they schedule Traffic court this way...more bang for your buck.) Cite examples of all the wonderful things you're doing to better youself. Say you need your D.L. so you can go to work to support your 11 children and pregnant wife. Kiss the J.P.'s *** and I mean it. You got a lota splainin' to do!

Hope this helps. it's harsh, but it's accurate.
Tracey

 

1)I agree..but Ive been good for the past 8 yrs(2nd traffic violation in 8yrs)so hopefully...
2)Im already set on not questioning the cop,Im just gonna ask for leniency on the punishment
3)hindsight is 20/20..but that was the truth
4)I agree and I hope the courts are not like you though...He said it himslef that the he stopped me for the way I was changing lanes..My guess is he never saw me speeding..I dont condone this behaviour either
5)It doesnt matter if he shows up or not,Like I said Im going to court in hopes of a lower charge

Daz

 

Did you get stopped by a visually impaired officer then, cuz 220kph is pretty tough to miss even for the dumbest of cops. And as for the courts not being like me, I hope there aren't a lot of other drivers like you (although sadly, I know differently). Plus, he didn't charge you with speeding, he charged you with careless. Try and grasp that concept.

 

Sounds like a real bind, but copperchick is right. The careless is only for the way you changed lanes, not for speeding.
You should go to court and explain that you've been good for 8 years and also that you need your D/L to go to work, to support your family. Hopefully, the judge is in a good mood and let's you off easy.
Good luck man.

 

Cop merged from the brownsline on ramp so I guess he didnt see me..At that time I was slowing down to change lane then to exit in Kiping..I hope there are not a lot of drivers like me either..I have changed a lot though..

""Try and grasp that concept" - whats up with this?

Daz

 

Sorry, dude, slipped into my official voice there for a sec. Just thought you were missing the point. I could have said it in a warmer, fuzzier way though.

 

I'll say it again: The officer knew you were speeding but does not have enough context/backup to have charged you with such- i.e. he was entering the highway and you were changing lanes-i.e. a difficult situation to judge speed on, especially without some 'technology'. Without a firm "I was driving along when this f-body zipped by me while I was doing 100 km/h..." or "I was waiting on the shoulder monitoring traffic flow when..."- the officer's peripheral vision/brief observation that you were moving "pretty quick" wouldn't likely hold up in any court.

"Careless" is pretty much a statement of the officer's opinion at the time of the event-i.e. your illegal lane change(s) was/were of such an extreme nature, "improper lane change" just isn't enough of a 'penalty'. I think the officer indirectly told you that the charge won't hold up by telling you to try and plead it out (and guaranteeing himself some sort of conviction if you select "Guilty with an explanation.")

Plead innocent and get a lawyer. You are pleading innocent to "careless driving" not to improper lane changes or speeding. Look at it this way- why would this be "careless" driving if you were on an empty highway? Not that you were- but see how "opinion" starts to creep into this?

Without a lawyer, the court will (sadly) not really listen to whatever arguments/issues you have to state other than to gloss over them- you are just another a-hole in the room. Once a lawyer is doing the talking (this is purely a psychological thing) the court tends to 'perk up' a bit- can't tell you if this is because 'regular' people are too far beneath the court officers or if there is a more direct/logical reason for this attitude- but it is true in my experience being in, and having witnessed a fair amount of court cases.

The "Guilty with an explanation" bit shouldn't even be an option- by doing this you've admitted 100% guilt and have to hope and pray the court officers (judge/crown attorney) are in a good mood the day you show up- not a bet I'd take on a good day.

 

Hey Eric man, didn't realize you'd done some much fancy book learnin'. Me being just a stupid, unedjamacated hick, I aint too bright an' all. Maybe y'all 'd best be representin' Daz. Y'all could dress up in yer fancy sunday-come-a-greetin' clothes and impress that there judge feller. Daz, looks like you got yerself one of them ad-vo-cats. Well, golly! I gots to be goin'. Ma's yellin' she's ready fer her sponge bath. Comin' ma!

 

The majority of the time even a lawyer can't bail you out if the cop shows up, most of the time the court will follow the recommendation of the cop for the charge. The court trusts that the majority of the time the officer writing the ticket was doing so for protection of the public. As stated before, you can make a deal with the crown prosecutor involved and plead to a lesser charge. Just make the focus getting out of the points.

With the points involved and future charge that insurance will deal to you, it would be in the best interest to do whatever it takes to get those points off... pay a fine, even if its high.. points in the long run are harder on the wallet than a 1 time fine...

 

Slade: Amen brother! (find out if there's a lesser included charge...like oh say Change Lane- Not In Safety... s.142(1) HTA...if you can make a deal with the Crown DO IT!! It'll save ya the points and the resulting rogering by your insurance company)

Daz: 220kph isn't just a smidgen over, it's sticking your bare rear-end out and farting at the posted speed limit. The copper knew what he was doing when he laid that charge. (Those darn Traffic guys spend a lot of time in court and tend to know thier **** like I said.) I'd be begging the courts forgiveness, and I can't emphasize enough:

"Your Worship, I was under a lot of stress that day. You see, my wife's pregnant and my 11 kids all need new shoes for school. I was afraid if I was late for work (since you've already let that slip), I'd lose my job. I wasn't myself that day. I'm a good guy. I haven't had a ticket in 8 years. And, I am truly sorry for my momentary error in judgement. I'm not usally like that. I need my driver's licence to go to work everyday to provide for my family, your Worship. I'm a family man like the good officer who stopped me that day. And I'm glad he did stop me, because it gave me a chance to step back and say hey..it's a good thing I didn't kill somebody or myself driving like that. My kids need their dad. I am just asking the court for the chance to learn from this mistake and go on with my life."

Trust me, I've heard it a million times. It takes a real harda$$ to come down heavy after that speech. The points, however, are not something the courts can deal with. That's the Ministry of Transportation. So, you'd better hope he/she finds you not guilty if a deal is not possible.

I'll drop it now..I promise.

Tracey

 

*** SHIELDS UP ****

This is for Daz only... in no way am I proud of my speeding. As some of you know.... earlier this summer I was pulled over on the way to work while travelling over double the posted limit. I was not given a ticket, but a summons to appear in court.

I have hired POINTS in the past... and they are absolutely useless unless you are indeed not guilty. I have seen people beg, pleed even cry.... if it's not your first or second offence... it doesn't mean much to the JP.

WHAT WORKS:
Get a resolution meeting with the prosecutor. Tell him/her your sob story. They reduced my alledged speed to the 4 point range. BUT they can't let you off scott free.... so I am stuck with the mondo fine ($700) (not complaining).

I almost owned myself in court though... the JP read the orignal charge and asked me my plea... I said ("Guil...") and he goes "NO!". I laughed and go "OH yeah.. Not Guilty!". Then he read the reduced charge... The justice system is very strange indeed.

PS: The part about dressing up is actually true... I've seen alot of scrubs in wife beaters get their asses fried in court.

*** SHIELDS DOWN ***

What's the difference between racial profiling and vehicular profiling? Why is it okay for cops to admit in court that they pick on the owners of sports cars?

 

Daz:

The previous post from Eric is a good assessment in my opinion.

Some of the moral majority type responses to this post are beneath contempt.

You or someone will have to cross examine the cop to get the circumstances into evidence if there is a trial.

In my opinion your roadside confession is not worth a toss because it was made under duress ie you were being agreeable to try and avoid further charges or you were psyched as a result of being pulled over etc. - whatever.

Best option is to try and plea bargain to improper lane change and avoid a trial.

Also, I think you should get a lawyer on this one. Like I said before - call the Law Society and at least by talking to someone that they refer you to you'll have more information with which to make your decision.

 

Now that I think about it some more - your saying you were going about 220 - why the hell were you looking at the f'kn speedo if you were going that fast - that's what I call careless

 

All good advice!!

Since they told me it would be at least 6 weeks for the earliest court date and to call if I dont get a notice in 2 mos,I will have time to do some research and ask some questions/advice..

George,
I will call the Law Society..(the one in Queen st. right?)for advice..I guess morality and right still have its borders..BTW I only looked at the speedo when I saw him entering the on ramp from browns line..(the on ramp is long)lolol..I keep on forgeting Speedometer on the streets,tachometer when on track..

Daz

 

Yeah 143 Queen West. They'll give you some names. I'd suggest talking to a couple of different lawyers and if they seem no good move on to the next one. Try and find out how long they've been practicing too and if they do a lot of this kind of stuff because some of the people on the referral service are just starting and that's why they're doing it. That said though, main thing right now is to get information and remember they're not supposed to charge for a half hour consultation on this referral deal.

 

I think the referral is $10 but that was yrs ago..

Daz

 

As far as I know it's free.

 

Don't feel that bad.
I got one too.
I'm going with X-Copper.
I got mine because some lady cut me off, slammed on the brakes, and I bumped her from behind. NO DAMAGE to either car. But she's trying whiplash on me.
I'm 19. this is my FIRST TICKET EVER!
EDIT: BTW, This is in the Trans AM

 

I don't get it?

 

Well then , smarty pants, come help me.

 

heheheh
i did suggest some stuff. its just a matter of tuning and working through things.

 

Wow thats alot of reading...
Ok heres my take on it. First of all Since I started doing co-op at a court house I can tell you definately dress up and be 100% prepared whether you represent yourself or not. I dont know you well enough to suggest a lawyer or not, but if you think you will be nervous or might not know what to say if they start bitchin definately go with one. 80% of the people that go through the court system are bums. Not to be ignorant or anything but they are. They are well below the average iq, dont listen well and dress worse than most of us when we work on our cars. And as a result they dont seem to pay attention, respect or listen very well to these people. Sure its sad but its the truth and its not like they didnt do anything to get there. So try and differentiate you from those people, nice clothes, get lots of sleep or whatever makes you attentive, be respectful etc etc.
What I think the oinker did, and I highly suspect this, is he figured if he gave you improper lane change that you would goto court anyway and could get that dismissed alot easier then careless driving. eg. going from careless to lane change is 6 points to 3, and quite possible. going from lane change down 3 points is zip obviously, and still qute possible to dismiss if he did give you that. If you take it to court, DO NOT plead guilty with explanation. Your insurance company doesnt give a **** if your wife was having the last quintuplet. They also dont care about demerit points. So what if you get demerit points, you go in for the interview, tell them you have a job, your sorry blah blah no biggy. But it sounds like you know about the insurance deal and you probably know how theyre a holes better than me.
If you just care about the demerit and insurance points you can try to goto the officer and volunteer to donate the ticket price to a charity or volunteer work (you probly dont have the time I guess) etc. never do it again, so sorry blah blah blah your best chance of getting rid of the ticket because it shows you took the time and effort to goto the station, use his badge number to find him and think it through. It also shows your sincere about knowing you made a mistake.
About previous offences, it sounds like they are to far in the past to be of relevance if they try and bring that up.
As for copperchicks idea, I think that would work if it was a bigger fine with more points and your license was at risk or maybe you could get it reduced pleading guilty with explanation. But odds are IMO the judge will just be like, so what you have a job and kids, pay your fine, learn your lesson and dont do it again. If its the right judge at the right time I could see a reduction, but I would go with something a little more solid.
I would also argue its not careless because you were monitoring your mirrors, checked your blind spot, nobody was close enough to do harm, it wasnt a fast swerve or whatever just a gradual multiple lane change etc. Say you didnt know the exit was that close so you wanted to get to the lane before being trapped (dont say you paniced, or rushed etc).
Other than that I would definately take georges advice and get the free 30 min. consulting for free. If it sounds good, go with it. If it was me I would be more than willing to pay more than the ticket cost in legal fees to get it dismissed. Most of this is IMO, sorry for the length, hope it helps, and goodluck!
greg
ps if it starts to look ugly, fake a seizure and urinate if your pants

 

I was putting an immaginary shield up so copperchick couldn't fry me. That one wasn't actually making fun of you....

 

Oh, now I see, man shouldn't have capitilized it then...

 

I know, it's just a matter of time, I'm at college now and the car is at home.

 

If I was making fun of you I would have done something like this:

*** SHIELDS YOU SUCK ***

*** SHIELDS NEEDS TO STOP WHORING OUR BOARD ***

J/K buddy