age

Well, the intake manifold's gotta come off this winter (gasket job). So, I figured that I would take the "step up" to either a Stealth Ram, or an LT1 from John Millican. I'm not here to ask "which is better", or "what parts do I need", etc... I'm concerned about pricing. Which would be the cheaper way to go?

I've got a ZZ4 cam, and aluminum heads, so I think that the intake swap would be a modest improvement... yea, the cam won't be too well suited for it.. but is there anyone running a zz4 cam with an lt1/stealthram intake out there?

thanks!

89 Iroc Z

1LT is by far cheaper, look at the price differences. More importantly do a search. There is hundreds of post on the stealth ram and the lt1 intake.

Ricktpi

Check this link for John's prices:
http://www.lt1intake.com/conversion.htm
An unpolished Stealth Ram is $280 & the fuel rails are $175 = $455
John's price with him suppling the manifold & fuel rails is $400
There is the issue with the theromstat plumbing on the LT1, given that they are about equal.

88TPI406GTA

RickTPI is right...The cost difference is very close and I went with the Stealth Ram due to not having to screw with a remote thermostat.

They are pretty close though and it depends on what you want.

brian89transam

2 reminders

#1. Last time I heard, the stealthram is on backorder for a long long time.

#2. You have to modify the stock hood for the stealthram to fit.

u r sofa king we tah did

i ordered a stealth ram from summit and got it in 3 days, so its not back ordered. and it fit under the stock camaro hood with no problem. if you go with the stealth ram, install the distributor before you put the plenum on i found that one out the hard way.

rezinn

I think the zz4 cam will work great with either intake.

jRaskell

The stealth ram will not fit under an unmodified Firebird hood though. The firebird hoods slope down towards the nose a lot more then the camaro hood. Also, I don't believe there is an aftermarket strut tower brace out there that will work on the Stealth Ram. I went with the LT1 intake for these reasons.

Cost wise they are so close. Things outside cost that need to be done though...

Get a throttle bracket for a 93 camaro (93 only. 94 and up won't work)
You will have to clearance the AC bracket for the TPS and IAC connectors.
Additional costs are remote thermostat and fuel lines. Those can be bought off Millican for $65 and $85. You also need fuel lines for the Stealth Ram too, so that isn't an additional cost.

So, if you have a firebird or a strut tower brace that you absolutely want to use, the LT1 intake is your ticket (in fact, the LT1 intake will clear your brace even better then the stock TPI) If you have a camaro without a strut tower brace (and no intention of buying one), then the Stealth Ram may be a slightly cheaper option. (by about $10 or so)

e-man

I have a cam that is close to the ZZ4 its a comp with lift at .480-.480 Dur 210-220 LSA112 and with the stealth ram,trickflow heads and 1.6 roller rockers I made 265HP@4900RPM with no tuning and it was rich at 10.5afr.It would have more left in it if the damn engine didnt blow on the second pull

grumpyvette

Ricktpi
"Check this link for John's prices:
http://www.lt1intake.com/conversion.htm
An unpolished Stealth Ram is $280 & the fuel rails are $175 = $455
John's price with him suppling the manifold & fuel rails is $400
There is the issue with the theromstat plumbing on the LT1, given that they are about equal."

VERY TRUE BUT YOUR REALLY MISSING THE MAIN POINT.....(WHAT HP LEVEL DO YOU WIND UP WITH WHEN YOUR DONE)
WHILE THE PRICE IS ALMOST EQUAL FOR EITHER SWAP THE STEATH RAM PRODUCES MORE HP! IF you really want to save money stick with the stock TPI intake but Im assumeing your looking to INCREASE the engines hp, if thats your goal why spend the same money for a lower return in hp per dollar spent with the modifiyed LT1 intake (which btw has ports that mismatch the earlier head ports ) while the steath rams ports are DESIGNED to match up to the earlier head port pattern

Greasemonkey

Can I see your data on that?
Huh? Last time I checked the ports on the LT1 intake line up just fine with normal heads. The bolt holes have to be modified tho. Are you talking about an LT4 intake?

grumpyvette

Greasemonkey
both the floor and roof of the lt1 intake sit about .01-.015" higher than the standard 23 degree cylinder head ports on the common sbc cylinder heads, true not a huge amount but more than enought to cause a mismatch and turbulance in the port unless minor port matching is done.

as to the power issue, I have not dynoed my engine yet but I did gain 6-6.5 tenths in the 1/4 mile swapping from the extremely restrictive TPI to the steath ram intake on my full roller, trickflow ported,11:1 cpr 383 with full length headers and DOUG over at HOLLEY gained 63hp swapping from a TPI to the steath ram on a STOCK camaro, BOTH THOSE RESULTS SHOW a 63hp(for HOLLEY) and a-90hp improvement for me with a average of 68hp improvement if the track times are an indicator and HOLLEY stopped way short of the 6500rpm durring their testing.that I run my 383 too durring a race, now the best IVE EVER seen on the TPI to LT1 swap was about 2 tenths and about 20hp, (Ill gladly post hp numbers when I get the engine dynoed) but for now the results are good enough to show a huge improvement on my engine, now Ill grant you that trying to run a 383 like that and trying to let it breath through a ported TPI was SERIOUSLY STRANGLEING that engine but none the less the steath ram did SERIOUSLY improve the power and Ill also grant you that the TPI can,t come close to supplying air to a almost full racing 383 turning 6500rpm and was never designed to do so! but the fact remains that the steath ram can and does flow far more air that the TPI and from what IVE seen flows at least as much air and makes more torque that the MINI-RAM intake which I also tested on my 383 (which is basically a large port LT1 intake in design) and which proved to make less torque and less power on my 383 and it (the mini-ram) made that lower power over a narrower rpm range (if you read my other post you know the mini-ram made about 55hp over the TPI on my 383, good but not as good as the steath ram)

brian89transam

Personally, I don't take a lot of stock in a guy from Holley doing anything with a Holley brand intake...

Ed Maher

Even though i personally haven't verified, i'm pretty sure john laid a gasket on an LT1 intake a a SBC head before he he even started this adventure. But it turns out, the LT1 intake port is exactly where an SBC is, and thus, he drilled the bolt holes, etc and thus it was born.

As for power. Keep in mind that the Holley tests did not gain 63hp. It only picked up ~20 hp peak to peak. The 63hp number was at the stealth rams peak. Big difference. If you're expecxting 63hp gain on a stock engine and then you only pick up 2-3mph you might be upset.

And until we see more combos running both, i'd say the jury is still out on which is better. Let's face it, the LT1 intake does work, lots of fast ones out there. The stealth ram seems to have the preliminary numbers to back it, but we gotta see more of it. It is a pretty big intake, so without the combo to really breathe through it, it may turn out to be overkill. An 11:1 383 is a lot different than a stock headed L98. The LT1 is a much 'smaller' intake and lots of mild quick Lt1 cars show it's versatility.

Still though, if i were in the market for an intake right now, i would go with a stealth ram (not on a stcok headed 305 though). It's just a nicer piece imho. For the same price really and no 'custom' problems to worry about it just makes more sense.

But the answer to the original question is, they really are pretty much equal in price.

brian89transam

1.Yeah, 63hp is bull for just a manifold change. It added 20 like Ed said and moved the powerband.

2.Don't you have to build your own fuel lines for the stealthram though? Whereas they come w/ the LT1 intake.

Not for certain, but I seem to remember reading that.

grumpyvette

brian89transam
63 hp is NOT BULL
look the formula for HP is (torque x rpm/5252=hp)

now if your tpi has a peak 400ft lbs of tq at 3500 rpm thats (3500 x 400/5252=266hp

now move that same 400ft lbs up just 1500rpm in the engines torque curve and 5000rpm x 400ft lbs/5252=380hp

thats a 114hp gain with no increase in engine torque just moving the torque curve further up in the rpm range

now not one person thats yet tried the steath ram has said anything but that the steath ram moves the torque range about 2000rpm higher in the engines rpm range and slightly lowers the torque , in fact a 63-90hp gain is before Ive learned to correctly tune the EFI and timeing curves, greater power is bound to be the result of further tuneing and the steath rams 45%-50% greater air flow potential over the TPI intake

Ed Maher

grumpyvette. You're missing something in your analysis.

Stock the engine made 220hp at 4200 or thereabouts
With the stealth ram the engine made 240hp at 5500

That is a 20hp gain, not 60.

Stock the engine made 180 at 5500. There's your 60hp. But this is a deceiving number since he stealth ram does seem to make a lot less power even at 4500 or a little more.

Will the car be faster. Probably. But not 6mph. And thats a narrow powerband for a stock torque converter.

esams

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Maher
[B]


Stock the engine made 180 at 5500. There's your 60hp. But this is a deceiving number since he stealth ram does seem to make a lot less power even at 4500 or a little more.

--That dyno run only showed me one thing: that the Stealth doesn't take a nose dive at the high revs. It was with the stock frickin' speed density chip for the long tube runners, so OF COURSE it's going to be out of tune.

The Stealth's 10-15 hp/tq less than the TPI below 4500 means absolutely nothing to me. Burn a chip specifically for a stock L98 with the Stealth and now we're comparing apples to apples.

BadSS

In my opinion your break even point for a StealthRam is a 9.5:1 350 with decent heads flowing around 230 cfm on the intake at cam lift, and a cam around 215/225 at .050 in an automatic with an approximately 2200 stall speed. Anything less will see little if any gain in ET, but could see a slight mph increase.

With the combination described above, a decent flowing LTR set up with traction enhancements would run similar times as a StealthRam with a basically stock suspension - slicks vs slicks.

Generally I've found it takes about (edit) 3.6HP increase per 100 "peak" rpm increase to even out ET wise. This assumption is based on the fact that very few modifications that increase peak RPM can also increase low and midrange RPM proportionally (or keeps it the same). So, if you make a change that increases your shift point 500 rpm,,, you better have added around 18 RWHP to "break even" - given no other changes. However, you may end up with a more "balanced" and even pull when moving from a LTR to something like the StealthRam.

Certainly in instances where you have somthing like a 11:1 406 with 195 AFR heads and you change from a stock TPI to a StealthRam the above "assumption" would not hold true since added breathing capability on a combination like this would enhance upper low and midrange RPM as well as top end. The same goes for adding a good set of heads to an engine. However, for cams and intakes on relatively mild street type applications you'll find the 1.8HP for 100 RPM "factor" to be pretty close.

If I remember correctly the 63HP claimed by "Holley" is at 5500 rpm vs 5500 rpm well after the TPI had started dropping off like a rock.

grumpyvette

Ed Maher
"As for power. Keep in mind that the Holley tests did not gain 63hp. It only picked up ~20 hp peak to peak. The 63hp number was at the stealth rams peak"

not so!! while I agree the tpi had reached its peak hp at 4600rpm the steath ram power curve was still on its way up , HOLLEY stopped the test because of worries about damage to a totally stock camaro engine they did not own, look at the data again

RPM Stock HP Stealthram HP Diff
3400 190 175 -15
3600 200 188 -12
3800 209 198 -11
4000 210 204 -6
4200 212 210 -2
4400 213 223 +10
4600 214 234 +20
4800 210 240 +30
5000 198 239 +41
5100 184 238 +54
5200 174 237 +63

trust me bye 6000rpm the steath ram would have easily pulled much higher hp numbers but because Holley chose not to chance floating the valves they stopped the test way lower than the stealth rams peak hp numbers. the steath rams effective range is in the 4500-6500rpm range, the test results were stopped well short of the rpm ranges the steath ram would shine in. I will grant you that most totally stock engines are not run up to 6500rpm but then anyone installing a steath ram is not building a stock engine! and quite reasonably will install at least a cam. and headers and possiably a much better flowing set of cylinder heads if they understand the concept of increased airflow in and out of the cylinders to produce max hp. now you could also make those changes to a TPI equipted engine and see hp gains but the more you improve the rest of the engines ability to flow more air the bigger the restriction to that flow the TPI becomes and the greater your hp gains when you finely swap and remove that last restrictive part of the combo. you can add AFR heads a full roller cam, headers, ETC but keep the stock TPI and your still limited to about 200-210cfm per port, swap to the steath ram and your now up to at least 280cfm-300cfm like the heads flow with a good roller cam
potential hp from airflow is approximated with this formula
(max airflow x .257 x cylinders=hp) that means a stock TPI intake limits you to about 431hp the steath rams better flow raises the potential to about 600hp.

kevinc

In your budget for the Stealth Ram, include ~$30 to have a machine shop true up the head sealing surfaces. Mine and two others (100% of my sampling population) have either had lifter gallery sealing problems or proactively had a shop check and fix the base.

I called Holley tech support, got routed to the QA guy, left him voicemail politely asking if Holley would be able to replace or inspect it (would cost me same $30 to ship mine back to vendor and ship a replacement to me...hopefully the replacement wouldn't be irregular also). No reply.

Kinda disappointing, but still cheaper than a Mini-Ram.

I've got scanned dyno graphs of my 355 with an Accel base TPI system as well as the Stealth Ram. Even sucking some oil into #7 cylinder it made about 15-20 more peak hp. Flow thru the unported Vette heads is mathematically my restriction...163cc intake runners just aren't able to move enough air to take advantage of the Stealth intake.

brian89transam

Also, Millican charges $200 for the intake if you have him supply one for you. I think you could find one for $100 or less easily enough. That'll bring the price of the LT1 intake down another $100.

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Yes I do charge $200 for the intake (with fuel rails) and $200 for the machining. That's because finding good cores w/rails is sometimes hard. I was right up front with this board when I started all of this. I even posted the "how to" (free!) before I offered even one intake for sale. I will always stay up front with this group as a whole. The $200 is to cover my searching/shipping, sort of a finders fee but I don't make alot from it. Most of the time I pay between $100-170 for each un-touched intake with rails. Who else will disclose their costs? Not many I'm sure.

I would prefer to just machine customers cores but that is not always possible for some so that's why I do this.

brian89transam

John,
I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way. It wouldn't be too hard for a person like me to sit around and wait until I found an LT1 intake for a pretty cheap price. I think, or atleast hope, that everyone understands that as a producer, you can't wait around for the cheapest ones when you have orders to fill. Even then you probably can't get all of the cores from the same place in big numbers so you have to make up for the time. $200ea doesn't seem unreasonable to charge. But for someone looking to save $, and someone that wasn't in a hurry, they could shop around until they found a cheaper price on a used intake core.

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Brian, I took no offense. I just felt some people might wonder why I "charge so much" when they can find it cheaper.

You are right though, if you can wait and know where to look then you can pick up a complete intake including rails, injectors and Tb for as little as $85.

brian89transam

I didn't even think about the TB. The LT1 TBs will bolt up to our shift cables? Would I need to change part of the TB to a '93?

Kingtal0n

MY question is this:
A 355 CARBED chevy making 420 N/A horsepower (done easilly enough, Performer RPM package is one example...) if converted over to the STEALTH Ram Setup using Holley's Commander 950 ECM to control everything will it make LESS or MORE or SAME amount of:

Torque
horsepower
Fuel economy

if the answer is MORE MORE MORE then you will see yet another Stealth Ram on the thirdgen boards.

grumpyvette

not knowing all the parts in your combo I can only make a good guess from building dozens of engines


torque---most likely less below 4000rpm and more above 4000rpm

hp, more at peak about the same or slightly more in the mid range, less down low but not much less because of the much better fuel/air contol of the EFI

mileage, no contest at all EFI wins by a big margin

your forgetting driveability(another big plus for EFI)

but look here




RPM Stock HP Stealthram HP Diff
3400 190 175 -15
3600 200 188 -12
3800 209 198 -11
4000 210 204 -6
4200 212 210 -2
4400 213 223 +10
4600 214 234 +20
4800 210 240 +30
5000 198 239 +41
5100 184 238 +54
5200 174 237 +63

now this is DATA is HEAVILY SLANTED TO THE CARB ENGINE BECAUSE OF THE RPMs COMBOs MUCH BETTER HEADS, higher compression AND CAM,if the STEATH RAM HAD SIMILAR HEADS , COMPRESSION AND CAM THE HP WOULD BE HIGHER AT PEAK FOR SURE, keep in mind the STEATH RAM DATA, was on a stock chevy engine without the better heads and cam

Kingtal0n

Heres a direct quesiton then, and it will decide for me.

MPG wise, What do people making 420 Horsepower~ with the stealth ram and NON forced induction get MPG? Obviouselly there is no one answer, but a general "about" would work just fine.

esams

That's a good question and I wish I could answer it with fact instead of speculation. We all want to know exactly what the Stealth Ram's characteristics and limitations are, but no one has dyno results from a well tuned car with great heads and a well matched cam yet. The magazines have done a few tests but they've used their advertisors' parts for political reasons, and the results didn't impress me one bit.

I think Lingenfelter has max. power with max. fuel mileage down better than most. His 383's with the SuperRam and his 219 cam with good tuning make 440 hp, almost 500 ft. lbs. of torque and get 25 mpg with 3.07 to 3.45 gears on the highway, but think about how much time he spent to nail that combo. down.

I'm sure the Stealth Ram with an optimized setup could do just as well with power vs. mpg, but the problem is we don't know what that combo is yet. There haven't been countless hours of dyno testing and thousands of miles of road driving different setups using it yet.

I've planned on being a Stealth Ram guinea pig from day one, what the hell, right?

esams

By the way, check this link. It's one of my all time favorites for "putting power to da pavement". I wanna see some Stealth Rammed cars on a page like this page next year!

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c4/bea...nSet-ups.shtml

Kingtal0n

when you went to the stealth ram did you use your old computer / injectors / sensors / wiring / etc... ?

if so, are they original? My problem Is i cant justify $2500 on a stealth ram setup when i can go throttle body for $1400 and get similar results.. not to mention i can use a roots blower rather than a $4500 ATI setup and make the same power, not to mention similar fuel economy if what Ive read so far about EFI is true.

grumpyvette

well I may not have dyno numbers yet, but Im makeing well over 400hp and useing a modifyed TPI ecu and 30lb injectors to control the steath ram and Im getting about 23mpg and Im sure the ECU could use a better chip programed for it ,my 383 engine has ported trickflow heads, a crane roller cam #119661 and 11:1 compression,if that helps

Kingtal0n

Grumpy, please, if you will:

Rear Gear, Stall Speed, Tranny Type, Camshaft .050 and advertised duration, head intake runner CC, and total highway timing and city timing at what RPM.

Any / all of these answer would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!

grumpyvette

stall speed 3200rpm
tranny 700r4 /with manual shift kit
cam,(really has .575in/.595ex lift due to 1.6 roller rockers, cam installed 4 deg retarded

http://dab7.cranecams.com/SpecCard/D...1=Display+Card

runners ported flow 272/201 cfm@.600 lift and have about 207cc size

timeing is about 38 degrees all in at about 2700rpm


hey it may not be the best combo but my vette moves ok under its own power and if I need it I have a 200hp nitrous plate mounted behind the 58mm dual throttle body (used but rarely)

grumpyvette

well? I thought one of you guys was going to run my combo through you DD2000 and tell me how my engine combo $ucks (not that Im worried because I normally eat Z06 vettes lunch so whatever hp level it has it works ok)btw use the 1000cfm throttle body and tunnel ram intake choices and 1 3/4 headers and open exhaust because Im running 3" exhaust with an (x) pipe and borlas with no measurable restriction, let me know what you get!

heres what one dyno program shows
rpm....hp...tq
2000 180 472
2500 242 508
3000 303 530
3500 364 546
4000 414 544
4500 457 533
5000 493 518
5500 509 486
6000 503 440
6500 484 391
7000 457 343

heres what another shows
HP TQ
2000-166 437
2500-218 458
3000-274 480
3500-334 501
4000-395 519
4500-451 526
5000-498 523
5500-526 502
6000-538 471
6500-525 424

esams

That's a sweet setup grumpy, definitely a Z06 killer. Are you going to dyno anytime soon? I'd love to see where your curves come in at. (torque and hp curves, that is)

Right now my biggest dilemma is this for the new 383:

AFR 190's, 1 5/8 shorties - torque monster

AFR 195's, 1 3/4 mid length's - big peak power

What do you think???

grumpyvette

I went 1 3/4 headers because additional low rpm torque just becomes more tire smoke, while additional high rpm power helps you overtake and pass those stupid mustangs that come up next to you and floor it and think that getting a 2 second head start on a 30mph to 90mph jump on you proves they have a great car,(it really makes them feel bad when you can still blow their doors in) and I should have bought the AFR 210cc heads it would have saved me time and money spent porting those trickflow heads

grumpyvette

btw heres a cut away of the lt1 intake, notice how short the ports are, this costs lots of low rpm torque



notice how the steath ram ports are more than twice as long to build more torque

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

The loss of low end TQ is a myth and un-true. With proper prom tuning (whitch should be standard with ANY intake swap) I still have all the low end TQ I could want with my LT1 intake.

grumpyvette

John Millican with all due respect, on this statement "The loss of low end TQ is a myth and un-true. With proper prom tuning (whitch should be standard with ANY intake swap) I still have all the low end TQ I could want with my LT1 intake."

your just flat out wrong about the port length and volume not effecting the engines torque curve, want proof! read these, and why do you think the TPI makes such great low rpm torque and swapping to the steath ram raised the rpm range 2000rpm,read these,

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question517.htm

http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcraf...ors/intake.htm

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ntaketuned.cfm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/intake-tech-c.htm

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ehelmholtz.cfm

http://www.rapidline.com/calc/engsim/pcesinta.htm

now I will agree that EFI is less impacted than carb intakes by port length and volume but less effected in no way equals not effected, years of tuning a dragster type engine running a stack injector tubes like these in my old vette

http://www.kinsler.com/images/man_4.jpg

has proven that changes in port length can move the torque curve higher and lower in the rpm range I had 4 sets of stacks from 6" to 18 inches long to adjust the torque curve on my old bbc race car

Grim Reaper

So? Have YOU ever swapped from a TPI to an LT1 or Miniram intake? If not, then you are strictly regurgetating others info (and probably from what they read too).

NOW, from a person who has ACTUALLY done this (me), I can confirm what John Millican states. I was able to tune so that I had MINIMAL loss of torque at low rpms (in fact, my Miniram produces more below 2,000 rpm). And there is NO COMPARISON after 4,000 rpm.

The ONLY place where there was SOME loss of torque (and very little) was from 3,000-3,750 rpm. I WISH I had just DONE IT a LOT SOONER, and not bother listening to ALL THE PEOPLE that said "you loose torque with a Miniram/LT1" (and NONE of them actually ever did a swap.

Sorry for being mean, but I am sick and tired of all the "armchair experts" who never have actually done it.

grumpyvette

yes I most certainly have run a mini ram intake on my 383 all roller sbc and while I agree that tuneing can help a great deal it still has little effect on the natural ram tuneing potential built into the intake by the port volume and length plus the plenum volume
I have run the stock TPI,
a PORTED TPI
A PORTED TPI with SLP ported runners and an accel base,
the mini ram,
the super ram,
the steath ram
and a edelbrock super victor intake converted to EFI with the accel throttle body adapter,
I have also built well over 100 engines in the last 35 years and tuned hundereds more!
I have both an exhaust temp gauge and air fuel mix o2 sensor probe meter for tuneing. while I am just a dedicated hotrodder I have worked on dozens of cars every month and install cams and intakes almost weekly
look Im not strying to start an argument , what I am trying to do is point out the fact that the LT1 style intake was designed with a low hood line as a more important factor in its design than effective ram tuneing of the ports both the super ram with the accel base and the steath ram out performed the mini-ram on my car and on other cars we have tested them on,in that both produced higher and wider average torque curves, yes the mini-ram worked well and produced good peak numbers once your over 5000rpm , now have you tried all those intakes and compared or have you just swapped the mini-ram onto your engine to replace the pathetic stock TPI my guess is that since almost any aftermarket intake beats the stock TPI the improvement you saw while very impressive (at 55hp average from my tests) falls well under what you could have gotten with a well tuned steath ram (at least 68 hp by my tests useing track times as a gauge and Im still learning to tune the damn thing)

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Grumpy,

I take no offense at all. We're all here to improve our cars and enjoy the spirit of hotrodding.

Next, it seems that you've been around the block a while and should know that just swapping from one type of intake to the next without changing anything else is just looking for a match for your engine.
Seems like your engine liked the stealth ram better, no big deal.

Now, I'm not saying the MR/LT1 intake is the BEST but for an engine MATCHED to the intake will get the best results, including all rpm ranges.

Ed Maher

As to the LT1/MR style intake no t being conducive to low end torque, i simply offer exhibit A. The torque peak on a stock LT1 car is 2400rpm.

grumpyvette

"you've been around the block a while and should know that just swapping from one type of intake to the next without changing anything else is just looking for a match for your engine.
Seems like your engine liked the stealth ram better"
.
.

true!
.
.
As to the LT1/MR style intake no t being conducive to low end torque, i simply offer exhibit A. The torque peak on a stock LT1 car is 2400rpm.

and as your probably aware ,the cam duration and LSA on the STOCK LT1 matched to a semi restrictive exhaust header config. is what keeps the torque peak on a stock LT1 engine well below the natural harmonic range of the intake system, changing the cam to one that matches the LT1s harmonic range and headers that scavage the cylinders effectively moves the torque peak much higher in the rpm range. the cam and cylinder scavageing, engine displacement and stroke and to a lesser extent the rod length must match the intake systems flow harmonics for the engine to make max hp.as always its how well all the parts in your combo work as a system that determines the effective power peaks and torque curves and the shorter runners in the lt1 intake have a slightly higher harmonic range than the steath rams longer runners harmonic range just as the steath rams runners have a higher rpm range than the super rams even longer runners ETC.

Kingtal0n

<b>383 CID, 11:1 Compression, but Im makeing well over 400hp and useing a modifyed TPI ecu and 30lb injectors to control the steath ram and Im getting about 23mpg</b>
Hmm...
<b>stall speed 3200rpm
tranny 700r4 /with manual shift kit
cam,(really has .575in/.595ex lift due to 1.6 roller rockers, cam installed 4 deg retarded
runners ported flow 272/201 cfm@.600 lift and have about 207cc size
timeing is about 38 degrees all in at about 2700rpm </b>
hmm...
Grumpy I have another few questions for you please, I would like to know:
-When does your tranny lockup, only on highway via switch / around town using Trnas-go's pressure switch.. etc..
-Why is your cam retarded 4 Degrees, it comes 4 Advanced doesnt it?
-Runners meaning INTAKE runners? you mean you had the Stealth Ram Ported to flow those numbers? how much did THAT cost, generally speaking....
-38 Degrees of timing, thats alot, you using 93 octane? with 11:1 and 38 degrees of timing? Do you have a knock sensor? Does it work?
-What rear gear is in that thing?
-And... Your TPI computer, Im confused, Are you saying you had a Stock TPI and converted it to stealth ram by Buying new injectors, intake, and burn a PROM for it? Do you burn your own? Is it the same / similar to the commander 950 ECU? Could i Go out and find a TPI Speed/Density computer in a junk yard and burn my own PROM for a StealthRam and rip the sensors from a junkyard and go from there?

Lots of questions, Lots of answers, Expensive Idea! I would love to put a stealth ram on my car, you cant beat the efficiency of a well tuned EFI setup, But the Holley Kit is $2500! If theres a cheaper way to do it like junkyarding most of the stuff and going for the intake and throwing it on my already built carb'ed engine I will do it!

esams

KingTalon,

Most of those are legitimate questions/concerns, real quick before I go to bed I'll comment on the ones I feel confident on. I know you're asking Grumpy but I promise not to lead you astray, because I'm after the same result you are:

1. Those flow numbers he's talking about (272/201 cfm @ .600 lift) are for the heads, not the intake.

2. Don't worry, you can have your cake and eat it too with the 700R4 lockup with a high-stall converter. Go to the tranny board for that one.

3. Yes the Stealth Ram complete package is damn expensive, but consider what comes with it for the $2500. 58mm throttle body, fuel rails, and Commander 950 DFI and fuel injectors of your choice.

-If you want to nickel and dime your setup, buy the manifold ($290), the fuel rails ($230) and figure out how to burn your own chips (what a bitch, plus you have to use your Butt-O-meter, which is the worst tuning tool in the industry. You'll most likely pull your hair out) If you pay any competent tuner to burn a prom based on your engine combo, they'll charge you $500, and it won't be "dead ***** on" no matter what. Plus, if you EVER change any mods, that chip instantly becomes worthless.

-If you have the Commander 950 DFI, you can have complete control of your setup, for current AND future mods, but if you don't know how to tune it yourself, the best thing to do is pay a really good shop to actually dyno tune it for like half a day. That really is the only way to completely nail it. That'll cost you $500 as well.

-Or you could do John's LT1 intake, buy injectors and the throttle body of your choice, and pay someone to burn a chip that may or may not perform like you want it to. Do the math, that ain't cheap either.

Hell, I'm no genius, but when I post stuff I don't talk out of my ***. If you wanna have 450 hp, put it all to the ground as efficiently as possible and get 25 mpg all at the same time, while spending the least amount of money humanly possible to do it, all I can say is.......ME TOO!

Everyone's got their opinion, but I think Grumpy's setup with AFR 195 heads, (not the Trick Flows, and not AFR 210's for a 6000 rpm street engine) would be about as good as you could get for the overall horsepower/torque curve that most of us on this thread are looking to accomplish. I guess time will tell.

e-man

Kingtalon 1# Dont be afraid of prom tuning its really not that hard 2#The cheapest way would be getting a complete TPI set up (so you get all the sensors,injectors,T-body,wire harness,ECM) from a junk yard or check the classifieds in all the F-body and vette web sites and just buy the stealth ram manifold and fuel rails.Then you could sell off the the TPI base,runners,plenum to get some of your money back.

brian89transam

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