I am going to be switching from mass airflow to speed density in a few weeks. I know I need a new ecm, memcal, etc. I was wondering if I could get any GM style MAP sensor, or if they varied from model to model. I have searched around this board and found nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
--Dave

 

I'm planning on doing this soon too.

I'd get a MAP sensor that matches the year of your ecm. You're also going to either buy a new knock sensor too or modify your current one.

 

If you look in the DIY Prom board there is a post titled 'Swapping from MAF to SD made easier' read through there before you begin. You might not need to buy as many new parts as you thought. Alot of the stuff from the MAF setup is reusable. The conversion dosnt look too bad if you do all the work yourself. Good luck!!

 

You can pick up a MAP sensor from any of the early 90s 3.1 V6 cars. The sensor is the same, just the mounting. Since you don't have the stock mounting hole on your plenum, look for a MAP sensor on a V6 car that is screwed into the firewall.

Also, get the connectors from a wrecking yard too, they make a clean swap. Most wrecking yards pull the ECM, but leave the connectors and harness behind. Unfortunately, some wrecking yards demand you buy the entire harness when you only want the connectors. Shop around.

PS: Many of the ECMs (and connectors) are also on the passenger side under the dash - a common place for GM cars.

 

But, I should ask, why do you want to dump your MAF setup?

In my opinion, the only valid reason to dump your MAF is either your MAF took a dump and it's cheaper to convert to SD or your ECM took a dump, can't find a used one in a wrecking yard and it's cheaper to convert to SD.

For performance you can make equally impressive power and performance with a MAF setup. You may have to tweak the eprom, but you have to do that for SD also.

A guy named Ski on the DIY Board is doing low-mid 11s with a MAF setup, just to show you that you can build a fast MAF setup.

You will note that I drive an SD car (91 GTA L98).

 

The only real reason I am changing to SD is because the MAF sensor (or burnoff/power relay) is dead. Also, I would eventually like to get into chip burning and tuning, and I hear it is better on an SD car. I know that it requires a bit more computer work, but I really want to begin to learn this kind stuff.

Thanks for all the input.

--Dave

 

Also, since the ECM I am getting will most likely not have the [correct] Memcal, I need to buy that also. I have heard and read that I can get this from GMPartsDirect.com. I looked up the part no. and it came up as a vehicle emmisions control, P/N 16151348. This is about $40. Is this the right part that I need?

--Dave

 

I may do the swap soon too. you can find massive amounts of info by searching around. its been done and re-done. almost as much as flowmasters have been installed...

 

Just remember guys the MAF gives you a little more leway on the mods you do to your rides. SD is very picky about it's programming. The only reason I am looking at a SD setup is because it's a plug-n-play in my car. Otherwise I woould probably go for the MAF system. BTW another place to get a MAP sensor is a TBI car. They were hung on the pass. side by the wiper cowl. But personally I'd go with the MAF as it's a little more leanant on the tuning aspect. I'd really like an '89 setup with elect. guages since my 90 has the elect. dash. Tons-o-luck and have fun.

Chris

 

MAF does require less work to get tuned, and some guys are getting awesome results running MAF. It has a lot to do with getting the right MAF Scalar Tables. I have found a number of variations on the various Memcals for the 165 (within the same prom type). I have found the ARAP bin's MAF Scalar tables to be the best IMO.

SD does require more work to tune. But it is not hard work - actually it's quite simple. For WOT, MAF and SD are the same in my opinion as you need to play with the Power Enrichment Tables to get the mixture right for WOT. A WB O2 sensor helps there.

As you have complete access to the VE tables in SD, you can do a lot more manipulation should you run a healty cam. But it takes time to learn. I would not recommend an SD conversion if you just made a monster motor and never did any eprom tuning. The biggest mistake guys do with SD is they decide to get into eprom burning AFTER they made their engine modifications. They now have too much of a learning curve.

On the other hand - though it is entirely possible to switch from a 7730 SD to a 165 MAF, I have yet to see anyone do it.

 

SD is more intuitive.
That can't be argued.

Both systems have there advantages and disadvantages, and it should be for the car's owner to decide what he wants to run.

Saying one is better then the other is making a judgment call.

MAF can be easier to get the fuel about right other then WOT, then MAP only since there are that many less spots to plot.

If you want to compare the 165 to the 730 then the subject is about the code that can be run, and the 730 uses more code, to make more desicions about how to do things, so there is an advantage to having the better code. Just as the ARAP is the 89 and last version of the MAF stuff it is the best of the 3rd Gen MAF cals.

11's?, I just saw a GN run a high 8 on the oem MAF.

There are times when the MAF offers enough air restriction that it crutchs things along and somewhat makes up for too small of injector.

There are some really clever answers to the MAF stuff, but no one wants to think enough out of the box for the answers in my opinion.

There are some applications, where the VE changes so drastically from light to full load that MAFs just aren't able to see the difference between 220gm/sec at 2,200 and 220 gm/sec at 3,300.
ie boosted applications.

Just a few notes, since this subject can fill a book.

 

Grumpy I am piecing together a TPI setup as we speak. i just picked up an 88 TPI setup, minus MAF and ECM. I think this would be a perfect time to convert the harness to SD but i have no idea where to start. I read about the Long screwdriver thing but I still dont get what its for.

Should i goto discount and buy a new ECM for a 92 camaro TPI? is that a good way to get the ECM?

and as far as repinning the harness, what the heck does that mean?

 

A 730 can be found in lots of v6 cavilers.. cheap
You need a 90-92 V8 TPI memcal for a F-body. gm parts direct seems the cheapest place to get one.

repinning a harness means phyically removing the wires from the ECM connectors and moving them to different positions.
A jeweler's screw driver can be used to release the terminals from the connectors. The wires are removed in two steps, one remove the "comb" from the connector, these are usually gray or blue and help contain the wires. Second a jeweler's screwdriver is inserted into the front of the connector, to push the terminal retaining tab back to release the wire. Hard to explain, but study a ECM harness conector and you'll see what I mean.

See Mike Davis's site for details on a 165 MAF to 730 SD conversion.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap_730/

 

um, say, My 89 TBI car has VATS. when i switch over to my 350 TPI engine, and put in the new harness and fuel pump and ecm etc.... and rip out the old stuff, can i retain my VATS?

 

yes..

 

well hey! thats great to know.

um...

er.... uh...

how? feel free to give me the whole "search" speach. but if not, feel free to fullfil the destiny of my prophecy to convert to TPI once and for all...

 

Just thought I"d let you know I just got done converting and it cost me $115 (map sensor, ecu, and memcal) it also took a full sat. afternoon (bout 6 hours) here is a page that I used to get all my info. GREAT page!!! http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap_730/

 

oh! and what about the guages in my 89 TBI car? when i change the harness and crap will my speedo and stuff still work?


Oh! and also will my Distributor from my 89 TBI setup work on the TPI setup to control timing?

sheesh all these little things!