thoughts on all combos

 

This has been beaten to death. Do some searches.

 

The mods have strong feelings about this subject, read the stickies if your new to the boards and dont have a clue about this topic.

 

i know this i just like to stir the pot

 

go to www.stealthram.com

 

Dont.

 

I don't think that you should have to search and read archived crap if you want to discuss intakes. There's always new combos popping up and new benchmarks being set using all of the different intakes. Maybe of late, there's been a lot of mud-slinging, but I'm always up for a good intake discussion, as long as there's factual info, (dyno #'s, times) to back it up.

 

here here

 

Cork,

They do NOT like pot stirrers here, trust me! Take a look near my avartar

PS you also loose your edit ability. In case you want to go back on your word, which I never do.

But good topic I think. This is the stuff that makes people start thinking and analysing setups that WORK.

Seems the good stuff always settles to the bottom and is forgotten about. At least until a pot stirrer shows up.

 

Stirring the pot...or lazy?

You be the judge

I'd rather see "Here's my combo.....what intake is best, and why?"

 

Sorry Corky, but the fish don't seem to be biting.

So why don't you get the ball rolling? Also why not state the various pros & cons with each setup? As well as how you may change the setup (injectors, cam, heads, stall speed, rear gears and engine build) to optimize for each setup?

Who knows, you MAY even get a logical debate instead of an emotional diatribe (though I doubt it).

 

All I know is that I wanted the low-end torque plus a little more breathing room up top.

I got all of that with the SuperRam.
My only regret is my choice of cam - the XE282HR.

I'm one of those guys that likes to run stop-light to stop-light.
Hearing that a Mini-Ram or the LT1 intake conversion would give me more up top didn't trip my trigger.

I've heard guys say that they didn't lose anything down low with the short runner set-ups and only gained up top.

I dunno.
All I know is that the SR performs better than the stock TPI did.

 

I wanna be on probation too! The last time I was on probation it was called academic probation at IU for spending a whole semester at Kilroy's Sports bar instead of in my apartment studying. Here's the same cliche we've all heard, I think that the superram and miniram both have plusses and minuses for obvious reasons like say, they both are still being sold and are profitable so they must be good for something. Anyway, I've been supporting the superram for quite a while now, but I must admit, I may be getting a miniram sometime soon. Real soon. You'll have to wait and see.

 

It is kind of strange but the TPIS insider hints book is what sold me on the Superram set up, Even with their dyno comparisons on a 383 w/Airflow heads & 58 mm TB, the numbers show the Superram totally beating the Miniram in TQ & HP until around 5000-5500 RPMs, after that the Mini Ram came alive but in my
opinion didnt nearly make up for the lost lower RPM numbers
If I built an engine combo that I was going to **** out and saw over 5500-7000 RPMs on a regular enough basis to justify it, I may have considered it instead. Another issue for me is that I drive my car everyday in Sothern CA, try to stay within smog requirements, and dont want to have to deal with swapping intakes every year to pass.
This is a topic I have brought up before and really want to hear why people would chose anything but the Superram.
I am sure some of you guys have good reason so lets hear about it, and keep this thread CLEAN and free of flaming and hope that it doesnt get locked or deleted.
Possibly then it would help some of the members out in the future trying to put together a decent engine combo.

 

now we are starting to go some where latter today i will give my views on the misc intakes

 

Great unless of course this gets ugly and locked first.

 

Well I might as well jump in here and see what I can come up with.

A while back I did a comparison on a 383, high compression motor, with the same cam as mine and turning some pretty decent times. Here is the comparison:




Now there are two graphs on their from my car, and one of the 383/MR. Keep in mind that my car was on two dynos. Both uncorrected values, and the DA on the last one, was over 3000'. Hence the lower numbers coupled with a different dyno.

To me, there are several things that stick out. First the SR is way more dominate all the way up to about my shift point of 5200RPM. This leads me to my second and third points. 2. With the SR you DO NOT have to spin the motor to make very good power, hence a longer engine life. 3. Lower RPM power, means MUCH better street performance and SOTP feel while on the street. The second point also bring up the 4th point which allows for the use of smaller injectors that will make a great deal of power, 500+ chp. 5. Need for much less gearing, common in most of our cars. Hell I am only running 3.07s. 6. Smog friendly.

Recapping the Super Ram :
Pros:
1. Overall better hp/tq numbers from ~5000 RPM and less.
2. Low RPMs for longer engine life
3. Killer street/strip usable power
4. Smaller injectors (again common on our cars in stock form)
5. Much less gearing
6. Smog friendly.

Cons:
1. PITA to intall, at least the first time. After that its not bad at all.

The Miniram: 1. Very easy to intall. 2. Makes better upper RPM HP (5000+RPM).

Recapping:
Pros:
1. Easy installation
2. Higher RPM HP possible.

Cons:
1. Non Smog friendly
2. Need much more gearing
3. Higher RPMs harder on every engine component from heads to crank.
4. Spring failure much more likely with higher RPM
5. Tuning surge problem (fixable though)
6. Lower Torque/hp down low, so less street user friendly.


The Holley Stealth Ram

While the potential to be the hybrid of both the SR and MR, there is a lack of credible information on the forums yet to make a good call on it yet. A friend of ours had the HSR in his hands and ready to test it on his very well running 383/219/Dart Head car, but as it turns out the HSR would not mate up to his Dart Heads They said he would have to weld a bead to get the proper alingnment. Not something he was up for or had the time to try unfortunately. So I would have to say the jury is still out on this intake.

I am in the process right now of having a single plane intake manufactured that I am going to try on my setup. From the potential of everything we have sorted through thus far, it might be the best choise yet. The potential is definately there to flow well over 300 CFM, to which our heads will be the main bottleneck. We will have to wait a few weeks for those results to come back. But I have a feeling, it might be the ticket. Or at least a wash in which case it will be much more friendly for working on the car, better suited for larger heads, more nitrous friendly (if I decide to experiment with it).

Well there is my air flow on the intakes. Let hear some others opinions. Please try to base it on factual/credible information.

 

It would be nice to see a comparison of two 406's with the same heads and cam.

 

Dyno graphs of 2 different cars with 2 differnet motors doesnt actually bring a whole bunch to the table for comparison purposes.

It is though a fairly illustrative example on where the compared intakes want to make thier power in the RPM range.

 

Guys,

Yes you are correct. It would be nice to have the same motor/heads/cam to compare to. Sorry that is all I have now, but will be testing the Single Plane, which I have a good feeling about.

Tomorrow we will be setting the baseline tests up to correlate to DA conditions etc. Should be interesting.

I would like to see 87_TA post a dyno graph of his car. Its a 406/MR etc running some decent times. So it would be neat to see how it falls in line with the illustrated 383/MR and also to that of mine.

I personally do not particularly like dyno output values. As you can see from my first one in better DA to that of 3000+ DA the difference you can get. Couple that with a different dyno and all comparisons are out the window.

I still firmly believe the best is MPH in the 1/4 correlated to DA. This proves to be very effective and also very accurately when done properly.

ETs are about as good as dyno graphs. But they are what everyone is after, so we must put a little more stake into them.

 

 

Having the same heads/cam combo is NOT a fair comparision either. SuperRams and MiniRams prefer different cams. SuperRams generally favor a single pattern cam, while MiniRams prefer the classic dual pattern cam with longer duration on the eshaust.

In fact, I have a friend that had a MiniRam and swapped to a SuperRam. He found gains with the SuperRam in switching to a single pattern cam (from the dual pattern cam). Further, he is now experimenting with a "reverse pattern" cam (longer intake duration over the exhaust).

Simply swithching the intake and saying "Okay now lets compare the two" is not quite as straight forward as you'd expect. Especially is you consider eprom tuning aspects. To be fair, you'd have to spend the same amount of time tuning both.

I have felt for a long time that either the SuperRam and MiniRam can give equally good results as long as you build accordingly. If you don't have emissions, like the simplicity of the installation, like high rpms and built your engine accordingly, then consider the MiniRam. Trust me, it's NOT a dog and dead at low rpms - it has more than enough TQ and can actually have advantages in launching.

Conversely, if you have emission, prefer lower rpms/TQ or don't consider the installation that big of a deal, then consider the SuperRam. They will both will serve you well if you pick the proper parts to match them.

 

Well, this is common knowledge. It all comes down to how much intake duration is the driver willing to run, after that choice is made the proper intake manifold and exhaust lobe are picked to make max power.

However one needs to get much more extreme with cam specs on a miniram in order to eqaul the average power of a Superram with a more mild setup, hence the big atraction to the SR.

 

Wellllll.... Me thinks some of you are a bit biased...

I like this qoute:

My new combo (see sig) has been a MR engine before it even got started (in fact, the MR was one of the first parts I bought for it). I am building this as a package with the lower end and valvetrain (all forged, splayed mains, hydra-rev, etc.) built to withstand anything the cam/intake combo demands of it.... But let us not forget that there are indeed stock lower end MR cars that have had little problem making awesome power - and living to tell about it.

But I am unsure of the single/dual pattern issue in regards to the MR. I think head flow is going to play into this issue to more of an extent than the MR. With the MR being a heavy breathing intake, it will allow the head to be more of a deciding factor on power band characteristics....

.... some of my $.02

 

First I'd like to thank the moderators for letting this thread live. I just ordered a mini ram and am on about a 2 week waiting list for the port matching to be done. I bought the MR for power now, but mainly for the engine I intend to build in the future. I am going to put it on my stock engine for some extra power now, and just swap to the new engine when the time comes. All I've done to my car so far is bolt ons, cam, heads, rockers, bottom end are all stock. This thread has placed some doubt in my mind as to weather this is a wise move. Right now my car is finished making peak power right at 5000 rpm. If the MR doesn't start making top end power until 5200 rpm, it will not benefit me, because my cam is done. I'm scared that all I'm going to do is over-rev the engine. If you can tach it up to 8000, but your cam is finished at 5000, what's the use? Am I on the right track here? I still have time to cancel my order, and would appreciate some feedback before it is too late. Now I'm thinking, Big Mouth, Large Tubes, Ported Plenum, some rockers, and a Level IV prom. THOUGHTS/SUGGESTIONS????

La92WS6

 

I will have a 406 MINIRAM Dyno result in 1-2 weeks, still tuning on it now.

I will also explaining the type of dyno it was tested on as well as my compression ratio etc so everyone can understand all of the facts.

I agree with Ski that the lower RP is easier on the engine, however, depending on 2 or 4 bolt block, forged crank or not, the torque can damage the engine and drive train components too.

My torque should be spread out and also, I have hydraulic Roller set up so it is not good to go over 6000-6300RPM anyway, at least for me.

The super ram for sure has its place.

BTW, I took my MINIRAM off last night @ 25 minutes and put it back on in @ 25 minutes

 

When you mention losing power at low rpm how much are you talikng? Is this less than stock?

Could the low rpm power be brought back with a supercharger?
(If your gonna spend $6k, you might as well spend $12k...)

 

LOL,
That seems like it could have been a good discussion.
But I agree , I doubt that emotion could stay away.

 

Also though I love my mini ram now I think every one should see this post of mine and the trouble I went through with it.
and also thank me now for fixing problem before someone else got screwed.
Another guy on this board bough one , saw my post and mailed me.
He was kind enough to take pics and show me the measurements
on the intake - they fixed the mold after my problem.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=74499