I'd really like to hear about any quick (at least high 13's) TPI cars running with the stock Programming.

Please include the following:
1. et/mph
2. mods
3. drivability issues if any with mods

 

I don't see the point in this post. What is next who has the fastest car with 16" wheels.

Stock Heads, cam, shortblock, prom and 16" wheels best run 11.61 @ 115.44 and it drives like a stock 92 TPI camaro

Jerry

 

i'm guessing who's the fastest, modded car without re-programming the PROM?

i dunno..........

 

13.44@103 2.24 60* TF Heads, SR, 52TB and XR269 Cam. Stock chip, stock converter, stock tires.

 

Naturally aspirated please. The point of this post was just to see what all can be accomplished without PROM tuning.
Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against DIY PROMS and plan on learning more about and trying this in the near future.
I'd just like to see others experience with stock PROMs and mods such as cam changes, intake mods, compression increases, head swaps, etc.

 

This is an excellent Question I'd like to see more responses.

I soon will be jumping on the programming bandwagon, but at current I cannot afford the setup, nor justify the expense when I need headers heads and cam.

I am interested too in seeing what can be done with stock programming and exactly what the stock chip will tolerate.


Don't be shy.. let us know what you run with your un program NA cars!

 

ive done a 13.952 on stock programming. that was at 97mph. the car now pulls 100mph passes but the traction isnt there to get me back into the thirteens, however it should do 13.4-13.5.

 

Thanks Lykan, this is exactly what I mean. A big thank you to anyone who responds also.

 

If you have a MAF car...youre in luck. They will respond to more air and fuel coming in better than a SD car. The big thing about SD cars is changing the cam. They are finicky when it comes to those. Id say(from what Ive learned) as long as you dont go over 220deg duration @.050 on the cam, you "should" be fine. On the heads I wouldnt go over a 170cc runner for a stock prom. And on the headers I wouldnt go over 1.62 primaries....all of this is assuming its a street driven car.....sorry if the post is off subject. Just some things to keep in mind for using the stock PROM....good luck

 

I went 3/10s faster with prom tuning....on the same day. I started with my stock L98 chip and ran 14.9@91 and popped in the hypertech to go 14.7-14.8@92 then moved onto the arap chip and ran 14.6@93.

All this was done on the same day.

Looking back now I could've gotten more out of it that day with more tweaking, but with the knowledge I have today I have improved 5/10s in 1 day with more mods done.

Ran 14.33@97 with ARAP played with timing and fuel curve to run a 13.78@99.6 on the same day....

Chip tuning is invaluable to setup a really well tuned car. IMO you should be tweakiing the chip on your stock setup first and then start changing parts. That way you can learn easier. Starting to burn chips after heads, exhaust and cam changes will make the learning curve that much steeper....

 

13.1 @ 104 was my fastest run with stock L98 long block, stock PROM, with Hooker Longtube headers, MSD ign., six-speed tranny, removed emissions stuff, Holley TB, adj. fuel press. reg., ram-air (basically all the bolt-ons). The stock motor lasted 2 days after that run (had 2 injectors stuck wide-open).

She's ALOT quicker now!

 

1Bad91z....when you getting out to the track? I am curious to see your times...

 

Certainly not "the fastest", but the times listed in this article were done using a stock 1988 350 chip.
12.9s - modified TPI/SLP combo - 88 degrees – hard to hook
12.3s - ShealthRam - 48 degree weather - excellent traction

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...holleystealth/

However, the A/F ratio is a compromise. The fuel curve with the stock chip on the IROC runs fairly flat until around 4700 rpm, then it starts leaning out. Obviously this is because the stock chip is “tuned” for the breathing capacity of a stock TPI,,, and stock heads. I had to either set the fuel pressure to run rich until 4700 rpm so the upper RPM A/F ratio was “close”, or I had to set the fuel pressure to get it close up until 4700 rpm,,,, then run lean at the top end,,, and it gets leaner and leaner as you go up in RPM!!!!!!

I chose to run lower fuel pressure riding around town and jack it up at the track so I would NOT be running lean up high. I would expect others to see similar results, with similar combinations. I’d loose close to 10 horses across the board until 4700 running higher pressure and gain 10 horses up high,,, or I’d gain 10 horses until 4700 and loose 10 or so up high running less pressure.

Mike Davis burned the car a few chips and NOW it has a good A/F mixture from go to whoa. NOW, I have the throttle response down low of the low fuel pressure setting,,, and the pull up top of the higher fuel pressure setting. In my opinion, for what it's worth,,, just being able to run one pressure setting and know the A/F ratio is right,,, even if there was no power gain would be worth the cost involved in being able to burn your own chips.

 

I have a better question. Who has (or had) the fastest STOCK ENGINE car with programming only? Also, what was their gas mileage?

That'll give you an idea of how much slower you are running if you properly tuned your eprom. To me, NOT programming your eprom is like running with old spark plugs, a dirty air cleaner, etc. You are NOT properly tuned and running slower and burning more gas than you should.

 

How does your question account for changes to base timing and an adj fuel pressure reg?

By changing the above you have accomplished the same result as modding a prom, to a certain degree.

A better question would be who is going the fastest with an unmolested factory tune across the boards. PROM, fuel pressure, timing.

My bet would be nobody is real fast if the above is true.

 

OMINOUS_87

I don't think you understand the question, What we would like to know is how far can we push our cars with stock programming before they dog out and become unstreetable.

We're not talking about simple mods like FPR, timing Etc.

You're right, adjusting the timing and the fuel pressure would have the same effect as slightly modifying the prom, but it has nowhere near the effect a custom prom would have.

To tell you the truth I kinda expected to see more people on the board with quick times and no custom prom.

But I suppose if they are going to the track most have invested enough coin in the cars already, and the $200 to burn custom prom is neglibale considering the gains.

 

Oh I fully understand the question. I just wouldnt want a newbie to read through this thread and come away witht the thought he might be able to get away with running factory programming on a modded setup.

Thirdgens in general have developed quite a an image over the years for being slow. People put a bunch of money into engine and other mods but never saw full potential because they were unwilling to go DFI or prom tuning was unavailable to them at the time. So instead they kept the factory prom and guess what, their cars were dogs.

I hope you see where I am coming from now. I just wanna be sure the wrong idea doesnt start to spread.

 

I'm with Ominous. I'm sure Ominous is much like myself, and found that while "mechanical changes" like altering the base timing and fuel pressure can assist in tuning - it is FAR from optimal.

Once you get to the point you need bigger injectors the ONLY way to do it properly is in the eprom as it MUST know what size of injector you are using to get the proper fueling. The O2 sensor will compensate to a degree in part throttle. But you will most likely be running pig rich (and much slower) than when you go inside the eprom to alter the injector size.

And, then you will need to optimize the spark table. Just altering the base timing will cause you to possible be too advanced in some parts of the spark curve while not advanced enough in other parts. Depending where the curve is too advanced, you will most likely trigger the Knock Sensor (though you won't hear it) and the ECM will end up pulling more timing out than you are adding.

As I said, the reason Ominous, myself and everyone else on the DIY Prom Board burn our own eproms is because we've all done the "mechanical methods" at one time (in my case over 10 years ago) and we quickly realized the ONLY way to fix this properly was to go inside the eprom.

I have said this before and I'll say it again, just modifying your eprom can get you some significant gains even on a bone stock car (plus better gas mileage and driveabilty). Burning eproms shoudl be one of the FIRST mods you make to your engine - not the last. Besides, it is far easier to learn eprom burning when the engine is basically stock than heavily modified.

Hell, the savings in gas alone will pay for the equipment in very short time.

 

I need SFC's and gears before I take it to the track. Just waiting on $$$ at the moment.

 

I am now seeing where you guys are coming from. I wasn't thinking about the purpose of your post.

You dont' want people to drop by this post see these mods. and this low time with a bunch of money invested, and see them not burn proms, because prom burning is about the most powerfull/cheapest power booster.. makes sense to me..I think I have you right.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kevin Gray
[B]Certainly not "the fastest", but the times listed in this article were done using a stock 1988 350 chip.
12.9s - modified TPI/SLP combo - 88 degrees – hard to hook
12.3s - ShealthRam - 48 degree weather - excellent traction

However, the A/F ratio is a compromise. The fuel curve with the stock chip on the IROC runs fairly flat until around 4700 rpm, then it starts leaning out. Obviously this is because the stock chip is “tuned” for the breathing capacity of a stock TPI,,, and stock heads. I had to either set the fuel pressure to run rich until 4700 rpm so the upper RPM A/F ratio was “close”, or I had to set the fuel pressure to get it close up until 4700 rpm,,,, then run lean at the top end,,, and it gets leaner and leaner as you go up in RPM!!!!!!

Mike, does the above a/f ratio problem apply to both combos, or just the stealthram setup?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Glenn91L98GTA
[B]I have a better question. Who has (or had) the fastest STOCK ENGINE car with programming only? Also, what was their gas mileage?

I'd love to read through replies to that one too, but I'll save it for another post.
I have nothing against PROM tuning. I actually LOVE the idea and think it is amazing that we can do this. I hope to get started within the year. However, I don't know how good I'll be at it since: 1. I have limited time online (3 kids under age 7 for starters. 2. I have even less time to spend on the car. 3. I don't know anyone in my area that I could turn to for free help/advice/hands-on stuff.

 

I agree and disagree. I was hoping that this thread would not only show what could be done with stock PROMs, but also what could not. Hopefully any newbies will read the whole thread and see that there are some mods that you just shouldn't do without tuning.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 89Formula350WS6
[B]If you're directing the question to me, I never had the TPI/SLP combo on the dyno where I could see what the A/F ratio was doing. The volume of air moving through the TPI/SLP combination at 5000 rpm is not as great as the StealthRam and I suspect peak power on the TPI/SLP combination was around 5200 to 5300 rpm. Best guess is that it probably was on a lean climb from 5000 rpm - 5500, but not nearly as steep a climb as the StealthRam shows. There's no doubt in my mind that the stock fuel curve was a lot closer with the TPI/SLP combination. Keep in mind though the IROC has 24# SVO injectors. There's also no doubt that tweaking the prom with the TPI/SPL combination could have put it deep in the 12s. Only being able to add timing across the board (base timing) did that combination an injustice. 10 - 12 degrees base timing,,, the car ran like a raped ape (for what it is) on the big end - 13.01 @ 109.47 mph in 88 degree temp - but I couldn't get it to hook at all with the stock suspension. I had to drop the base timing to roll off enough power at launch that it was manageable enough to hook and run in the 12's at 105 mph. There would have been a major et drop with that combination with a stick like glue suspension, or at least a marginal drop in ET with the stock suspension and being able to pull timing out around the launch rpm,,,, and keep or add timing up high. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the StealthRam likes 14 degrees base timing with the stock chip just to get it moving,,,, but it needed less timing up high. The chip Mike Davis burned for the car runs excellent with 9 degrees base timing, because he added the timing in the spark tables,,,, where you should be doing it.

The point I'm trying to make is not much different than Glenn and Ominous is making. While you might be able to knock down decent times with a stock chip, more than likely,,, unless you build a MAF engine around the stock chip - which is what some of us old timers had to do way back in the days when these cars were new - you're going to benefit a great deal from a custom tune. While building around a stock chip was about all we could do back in the 80s. Today,, it's a differenct story with the equipment and knowledge base available. I bucked the bandwagon myself, but knowing how critical a good ignition curve and proper jetting, squirters, and pump cams are to a carbed car,,,,, and seeing the difference Mike's 2000 miles away, never seen the car tune made on the IROC,,,, I'm going to hope the DIY Prom board will deal me in at their table. I've been lurking there for quite some time and there's some REALLY cool stuff in the works right now that I can't wait to be released for sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know what you mean about not having the time and having a life outside a hot rod. If you don't go wild on a combination, the stock chip could limp you by with a MAF car, but as soon as you feel like you have some time and $200 bucks or so to spend, I don't think you'll regrete the investment.

 

Thanks for the reply Kevin. I don't know why I called you Mike. Very good information you're giving me/us. I really appreciate everyone's replies so far.

 

I think I had one of the fastest cars that ran in Limp Home mode.
14.1@99mph.
6-10mpg due to the ECM just dumping fuel into the cylinders.

Engine was an LG4. Put the following mods on it:
87 TPI Heads
87 TPI base, plenum, and runners, all stock.
87 TPI throttle Body bored to 52mm
Converted to Speed Density
SLP Dual CAI
Crane Cams PowerMax 2050 Camshaft
95 Formula Rear End with 3.42 gears
B&M Ripper Shifter
CenterForce Dual Friction Clutch
MSD 6A
MSD Blaster 3 Coil
Dynomax Shorty Headers
PaceSetter 3" Stainless Steel Catback
3" Hi-Flow Cat
Custom Y-Pipe
Jamex Lowering Springs
Lakewood LCA's
Lakewood Adjustable Panhard Bar
GM Wonderbar
Holley 230 lph inline Fuel Pump
Dual Electric Fans

 

John Millican and Bernard Tripp (aka GMTech) are both in Savanaha Georgia. I help both get into eprom burning a couple of years ago and I'm sure they would be glad to help you.

 

This is a dumb post. Not only will all the part throttle, and accel stuff be all wrong for fueling and timing on any mod, but in PE when you've got it to the floor you risk running lean and detonating your whole RIG. o2, blms, mean NOTHING under PE.

You wanna risk tuning your car by setting fuel pressure? If your car runs fine on stock tuning, you have a stock car. end of story.

And for the record - I ran 13.50 @ 101mph with a stock prom, because my memcal broke (solder joint) and I detonated the front two cyls. I pulled the plugs and almost fell on the floor. get it?

-- Joe

 

I'm sorry you feel that this is a dumb post, but you are entitled to your opinion and you'll hear no flaming from me about it.
I personally feel this post has been very informative and hope that it will continue to be as long as other people respond with their experiences.
As I've stated several times earlier, I have NOTHING against DIY Prom tuning. I also feel that alot can be accomplished without/before it. IMO, it looks as if a combo similar to Kevin Gray's LTR setup can work pretty good on the stock chip. Escpecially considering that his cam is spec'd as having a 110 degree lobe seperation. I bet it would have run even better (with stock PROM) with at least a 112 LSA.
Before anyone responds that I think he would've run better with a stock prom than with a custom one - that isn't what I said. I am saying that the stock prom would've probably liked a wider LSA.

 

You are looking at this from the wrong angle and no one is argueing that you cant throw mods at stock chip and the car wont run.

The bottom line however is fairly clear, crystal clear. Running a chip that was stamped out to control 1000s of similair motors in dozens of different climates while pleasing EPA guidlines will in no situation run any motor to its potential, stock or modded.

That is not a guess that is the facts.

The PROM needs to be looked at like a set of crappy heads. When mods are done around it, it ultimately just restricts what the parts in place are capable of, like being airflow limited with stock heads on a cammed 383.

There is no set in stone place on where you are required to DIY, it is always in your best interest to DIY, even on a stocker.

 

Amen.

Before I modified my L98, I had a couple of friends use my modified eprom setup for MY CAR. I cautioned them that they may experience different results because every engine (even bone stock) are a little different.

So far, everyone of those people that I gave my original eprom to, had to have further modifications (mostly the spark table). Some could tolerate more spark advance while others could not.

Bottom line, if you DO NOT modify your eprom, you are probably sacrificing .3-.5 seconds. I've seen a lot of combos at this site where I look at the guy's mods and say "you should run faster" and 9 times out of 10, it's the eprom has never been properly tuned.

And off-the-shelf eproms or eproms done by someone "by mail" doesn't work. It has to be "hands on".

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Glenn91L98GTA
[B]Amen.

Bottom line, if you DO NOT modify your eprom, you are probably sacrificing .3-.5 seconds. I've seen a lot of combos at this site where I look at the guy's mods and say "you should run faster" and 9 times out of 10, it's the eprom has never been properly tuned.

First off Thanks for one of your posts concerning the MAT/IAT relocation. I was gonna do this until I read that it wouldn't help my 89 MAF car.
Do you really think my basically stock setup would run that much quicker with eprom tuning? I know I can knock off about .2 by installing the 3.42 posi rear I have & ditching the 3.27 that has forgotten the meaning of "limited slip" and also ditching the 100 lbs of ballast that I use to hook up, but beyond that-another .3 -.5 seconds without any other mods?
What kind of changes would give such an increase? Adjusting the timing curves to kill some bottom end and give a little more top end? Is the fuel curve likely that far off? Are there other "standard" changes that are just givens when it comes to PROM burning. Like taking out the MAF sensor screens, TB By-pass, & porting the plenum are a given for mechanical mods.

 

Here's a great post from a guy on the DIY Prom Board that started from 12.7 @109 and now is running 11.43 @ 121.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=202134

1.3 seconds and 12 MPH from eprom tuning is not too bad. The car is obviously modified and he didn't start with a stock prom car. I wonder how much slower his car would have been then?

The .3-.5 that I quote is what guys with basically stock engines typically experience. As well as usually a 2-5 mpg increase in fuel economy (if you want to invoke highway mode and lean out the mixture while on the highway).

The approach I take with the spark curve is simple, I try to advance the curve as quickly as possible without triggering knock retard. I find spark greatly increases power (until you reach the point of detonation).

The biggest obstacle with the stock heads (and many of the newer heads for that matter), is they really don't like (or need) that much spark advance to make max power. Increasing octane may increase the spark advance a degree or two more, but not much. But you REALLY have to play with this.

But it is a LOT EASIER to do, than most people think. The most time consuming part is to find a straight empty road to do some testing. It wouldn't be the first time that I was up in the wee hours of the morning doing a test on my favorite secluded road.

It's a hell of a lot easier than the "good old days" when you had to pull the distributor apart and try different springs, different weights and different base timings. It takes only a few minutes to reburn the eprom and you don't even get dirty.

There is NO WAY you could get modify the spark curves on an old dissy like you can on the new EFI cars. No comparison whatsoever.

 

Which is why discussing timing tables with an old timer is soo damn painfull.

This thread is dumb, and should be locked. I do understand the point of it, and I don't want to call the poster dumb -- because your not, I do see your point. But I think everyone has the idea now.

Glenn's point, is you can't tap the potential power of your hardware without the right software.

My point is, at WOT you might run lean and blow up your car.


Can we lock this now?

 

A Couple of weeks ago my brother and I were both at the track running our cars.

Mine is an L98 Vortec TPI

His is a 350 Vortec Carburated.

He popped his hood and got his hands dirty to adjust his fuel and timing.

I reached under my dash and popped out my Eprom, changed it and popped it back in. Never opened my hood once.

That is exactly what I did and I ended up gaining 3/10 and 2 mph that day from the morning...my brother had similar gains but dirty hands!!!

 

Yes, and I bet you had yours done much quicker too. You probably had lunch while your brother was feverishly working on his car.

 

Yeah actually I did....plus the "cool" factor of pulling out a laptop, analyzing your last run and reprogramming your car....this is Formula 1 stuff!!!!

 

Please help me out on this. I still don't understand where that amount comes from. After studying both Traxion's and Ed's introductory posts and making a list of things I'd need, I have a total of $460.00

1. Pocket Programmer $ 150.00
2. TunerCat Editor $ 70.00
3. TDF $ 25.00
4. Spare Chips $ 15.00
5. ZIF Socket $ 25.00
6. Memcal/Zif Adapter $ 35.00
7. Spare Stock Memcal $ 50.00
8. Serial to ALDL Cable $ 95.00
9. Scanning Software $ FREE
10. ARAP Bin (89 MAF L98) $ FREE

I know that I could save SOME of the $95.00 by making the cable myself. I could also save about $45.00 by desoldering my stock chip instead of the adapter and by buying only one spare chip, but that still leaves me with $320.00 PLUS the cost of making the cable myself.
Am I missing (or adding) something here? Are there better/cheaper options that have appeared since those articles were written?
One more obstacle (and cost consideration) - I don't own a laptop. Isn't a laptop pretty much a requirement for DIY Promming??
I still think that the cost factor is far outwayed by the advantages of this, but those are some of my reasons for not starting up yet.
I'm already keeping my eyes peeled for a laptop solely for this cause.

 

You need to do some more intensive reesearch on this stuff. There is no need to pay for top dollar stuff, Moates puts out great parts but this stuff can be had at your local soldering-geek store much cheaper. No need to pay TC either.

1. Pocket Programmer $ 150.00
2. TunerCat Editor $ 70.00
3. TDF $ 25.00
4. Spare Chips $ 15.00
5. ZIF Socket $ 25.00
6. Memcal/Zif Adapter $ 35.00
7. Spare Stock Memcal $ 50.00
8. Serial to ALDL Cable $ 95.00
9. Scanning Software $ FREE
10. ARAP Bin (89 MAF L98) $ FREE

1. Sounds about right.
2. Use a free editor-GMECM
3. NA
4. ~5$ each, I use 2
5. cheapy zif setup ~10$
6. not needed
7. not needed
8. 15$-DIY
9. free
10. free

For the memcal dont desolder, just use a cutoff wheel to cut the chip out and then solder on a long legged socket to the material thats left and put a cheapy zif adapter atop it

 

Well. You could start out with GMECM or winbin or something like that. Though after using TC, I think all the other editors are junk - no offense. I just like TC. Maybe I'm stupid.

You could modify your stock memcal and solder a zif on it. (if you're running MAF I have one for sale, i switched to speed density). I happen to like the moates adapter cuz I can use it
in both 165 + 730 cars, but thats a personal preference.

He's right, don't pay 95.00 for the cable. Its like $10.00 in parts at
the most. And the moates software isn't bad, AND you can use windows based freescan with the MAF setup too!

The chips are cheap, but the shipping usually stinks. I order 5 at a time, but I've also been known to do (free!) chips for people to convince them to start doing their own burning. (And it hasn't failed yet!)

..You only need a spare stock memcal if your modified one breaks a solder joint. With the moates adapter, this wouldn't be needed.

-- Joe

 

IMHO, an excellent post for us TPI 101 level folks, which leads me to my question. I need to fire up a just built 355ci with the following specs and I was curious as to whether or not I can use a stock 1990-92 350 chip to fire the engine for the first time:

Engine: 355 ci
Heads: Heavily ported World Product cast iron
Compression ratio: 9.4:1
Stock TPI plenum, runners, and intake manifold all ported/siamesed
Cam: 212/220 0.460/0.485 112 lsa flat tappet
Injectors: 22 lb/hr
Headers


Thanks in advance for any input, advice, etc.
Chris

 

Yeah you should be fine firing it up. Don't nail the throttle until you enter closed loop. The ECM will correct the fuel in closed loop, just stay outta PE (wot). In Open loop you might find it running very lean, but who knows.

Open loop is very hard to work with without a wideband o2. I have my open loop set just enough to get the car idleing until it reaches closed. THEN I drive it. Last thing you want is a lean condition on a cold motor.

-- Joe

 

13.11 at 101.6mph, 1.73 60ft. Im gonna see how fast I can go on the stock chip without nitrous on my 383 that Im building now and then I will use the juice and them BUY a TPIS chip!! I have 3.42s, 160 stat, 88 gta aluminum drive shaft, air foil, ported plenum, timing at 12 degrees, 50 psi fuel pressure, put a slightly ground dime in it to get it to 50. Home made ram air behind my fog light openings. ZZ4 camshaft, stock 1.5 rockers, headman 1 5/8 headers, dynomax super turbo muffler, Trans pac shift kit, underdrive pulleys, Stock chip! Speed Density 91z28!

 

For what you spend on one of those conservativeTPIS chips, you buy all the equipment needed to burn your own. Another alterntive is to wait for that "PROMinator" to come out.

My Formula with the mods below, minus the SLP chip and SLP headers, ran 13.56@100.75 with the stock chip and burned plug wires.

I have since removed the SLP chip and replaced with the stocker, then bumped the timing back up. Total difference!!! It runs like it should.

 

What is the "PROMinator" ?? I haven't heard/seen anything about it yet.

 

There is quite a bit of technical jargon to wade through, but it will give an idea of how awesome this thing will be when they release it!


https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=190424

 

LOL, I have Friends that Make over 500HP with those conservative TPIS chips!!

 

If this is about to be released for about the same cost, why in the world would I buy a Pocket Programmer, etc, etc ???

Why didn't any of you tell me about this further up the thread?

No disrespect to anyone who replied as I appreciate it all very much, but this "PROMinator" looks to be the only real option.

 

No offense, but you ask anyone (like Traxion on the DIY Prom Board) who later got into eprom burning and what they actually saw when they looked inside their TPIS chips. No one has been impressed.

We have lots of guys that have come to the DIY Prom Board that use to have TPIS chips that consider them absolute crap. The reason they came to the DIY Prom Board is they got frustrated with TPIS and finally gave up and decided to do it themselves.

As for your friends with 500 HP, they probably could make more HP. TPIS is not a great eprom.

 

Well you havent examined my friends TPIS proms so you cant really make that statement about ALL TPIS proms, only the very few you and your freinds have looked at. They worked great for my friends cars 500hp is nothing to sneeze at!! They might go faster with some other Proms and they might not! The fact is they make good numbers and run fast with TPIS, it is not a fact that they would run better with anything else! Thats just a Guess on your part!!